chukwudi44: I initially wanted to ignore this thread but for the fact that I wanted to make some things clear

@op

It is obvious you are not a catholic or even if you were you were completely ignorant of the church's doctrines.

You cannot even correctly define papal infallibility as what you wrote here is completely thrash.kindly gooogle or better still go the wikipedia to get the correct definition of papal infallibility.

You are completely ignorant of the meaning and processes involved in proclaimation of saints.most of what you wrote here are completely baseless and obviously the work of a fundamentalist christian

Rich4god: See them... See them... They don come back again. See person wey no Know catholic doctrine dey claim say him be catholic.

Anyigala:
No need to do that, as a Catholic, its quite shocking and disturbing that you have no clue what the Church you claim to belong to believe and teaches. I suggest that you should visit the websites posted earlier for your answers.

Reyginus: I want to you to be the site I need. Just like micheal gave God a reason to believe in man again in the movie Legion, I want you to the same. I've read more than a thousand articles on the catholic faith and our philosophy. What's making you think this one is my eureka?

Anyigala:

Well, it apparent you are not seeking answers but just an avenue to rant your anti-Catholic views or someone to argue with. I am sorry to disappoint you my friend but i will not engage with you. If you scan through nairaland you will immediately realise that Mr Frosbel have beaten you to that. At least he is honest about his dislike of what he thinks Catholics believe in.

I am sure you have read all the Catholic books and the Bible 100 times, however, reading what you have already posted about Catholic church tells me that all you have read are few anti-Catholic books and a lot of YouTube watching.

Anyigala:

Well, it apparent you are not seeking answers but just an avenue to rant your anti-Catholic views or someone to argue with you. I am sorry to disappoint you my friend but i will not engage with you. If you scan through nairaland you will immediately realise that Mr Frosbel have beaten you to that. At least he is honest about his dislike of what he thinks Catholics believe in.

I am sure you have read all the Catholic books and the Bible 100 times, however, reading what you have already posted about Catholic church tells me that all you have read are few anti-Catholic books and a lot of YouTube watching.

Reyginus: You are welcome.
Here we go.
The rational block from which every other thesis take root in christainity is the bible. Paul's case is different in that, he was writing the basic truth from which every other truth in the practise of christainity must spring from.
Did I say catholics dont read the bible?
In the language area, you seem not to get it. Let's say a service is to be held in a yoruba populated area. The preacher steps in, and begins to flow in igbo language, even though he is fluent in yoruba. Does that make sense to you?
On statues.
You know something, that you say you don't believe in a thing or a thing is not true, does not make it so.
The question is, why would you bow to an image?
And what made you think I can't change anything?

Obi1kenobi:
As an Igbo man, if I'm in a Yoruba service where I know the Yoruba songs, I can enjoy the service as far as the priest or pastor's preaching is in English.

Obi1kenobi: i am agnostic but an ex - practising Catholic.

This is simply for the fact the Catholic church may see the bible as a foundational guide for the faith but not the sole building block of it and I find this view rational. It's somewhat naive to consider a human contraption like the bible the sole christian guide. It's all about faith because if you believe some of the ramblings from Paul or Peter (who were recorded to even be at loggerheads with each other), there's no logical reason you couldn't do the same for a Papal declaration seeing as they often claim them to be divinely inspired too. This is how church traditions like those concerning Mary's intercessory role came about. Faith, and not the Bible, is the foundation of christian belief.

Anyigala:
Keep them coming Mr, I think you have a total of 44 of them.
I strongly doubt if you are a Catholic Christian as you claimed. For if you are, you should know that all you have written so far are groundless. All these claims have been written and recycled over and over. I must responded to them on nairaland more than once. Since you claim to be Catholic, why don't you read "Catholicism and fundamentalism" by Karl Keaten or "Why Catholics are right" by Michael Coren. They have answer to all your questions and will even explain to you the origin of the book you are getting all the stuff you are writing here from. You May also want read "Rome Sweet Rome" by Scot Hahn, "Crossing the Tiber" by Steve Ray and "upon this rock" also by Steve Ray. These two men are just two of many and highly intelligent Protestant/anti catholic priests who asked all these question and in search of truth couldn't ignore and mock Catholic Church's claim and one by one eventually come back home.
I don't have time to start debating your lists one by one, the time it took you to find these spurious allegations on the net or read the anti catholic books you copied them from, you could easily have found the answers on hundreds of Catholic blogs and websites if you are genuinely seeking answers.

Anyigala:
No need to do that, as a Catholic, its quite shocking and disturbing that you have no clue what the Church you claim to belong to believe and teaches. I suggest that you should visit the websites posted earlier for your answers.

Reyginus: Let me take it one at a time.
This quote in a way agrees with what I'm saying. For the service to be meaningful, the brethrens must follow. If I don't understand, not just me, the majority, the language of service how do I appreciate it?
Let's say I journeyed to igboland on a mission. I speak igbo, hausa and english as the central language. The indigenes of my place of mission understand perfectly the igbo language, some as well as english, and a few who have lived among the hausas. When I step to the podium to minister, instead of using igbo(their 1st language) for the service or English(the central language), I resort to hausa. Is it sensible to communicate with the least of ways in which you'd be understood?

truthislight:



^^^
still the same lies that the RCC taught you and turning people to atheist/agnostic7



the NT is a writing by christ apostles and not a product of RCC.

The apostles wrote letters and taught the christians what and how to follow in their service to God/faith and this books had there names, and the early 1century congregation knew the writers that sent them the books
.

See some sample of the apostles letters by their own mouth in the bible

peter:
1.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;" (2 Peter 3:15).

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:16-17).
(note: his epistle)

Paul:
2. "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write." (2 Thessalonians 3:17).

(note: every epistle)

3. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
(note: our epistle)

4. "And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments." (2 Timothy 4:12-13).

5. "Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction." (2 Corinthians 13:10).

6. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" (1 Corinthians 5:9).
(note: his epistle)

7. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11).
(note: I have written unto you)

8. "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Galatians 1:20).
( I write unto you,)

9. "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" (Ephesians 3:3-4).

(note: as I wrote afore in few words,)

Congregations to exchange letters :

10. "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." (Colossians 4:16).

This are just few letters from the apostles not to talk of revelation and others that they the apostles wrote.

^^^
compare that with what the catholics church has taught you and you come to believe to become an agnostics.

Therein lies the danger of the satanic act of saying that the NT is a product of the roman catholic church.

Satan is very wise and smart indeed.

Reyginus: The Pope's Infallibility
The immunity to error. To us, the infallibility of the pope, flows naturally from the infallibility of the church.
The question is, is the church(catholic) infallible to begin with?
That you'll answer yourself by the time I'm done.
I am not confusing infallibility with impeccability please. Only that, for infallibility to exist where their is no impeccability, is not possible.
Accordingly, when he(the Pope) defines an article of faith/moral he is infallible, except otherwise. I think we have a problem. Does the Pope operate as a dual entity?
Is it not the same person that makes the moral and faith truths, make the non-impeccable entity?
Can character be dualistic?
I am not trying to act like luther who described the papacy as a 'human invention',but infallibility of the Pope I will look with a similar lense.
Their was a time we had two popes. How do you weigh them in the infallible scale?
This notion is wrong. Let's drop it.
Examples:
i) Pope Gregory xiv was misled by corrupt officials.
ii) Pope innocent xiii made his brother cardinal and practised nepotism
iii) Pius vii crowned napoleon emperor in paris, but later excommunicated him after the emperor occupied rome. Lol.
What infallibility? It is a contradiction of infallibility to breed fallibility.
When we believe a thing for the sake of faith-preservation, we're preparing the faith for self-termination.

Obi1kenobi:

Your bible quotes are irrelevant cos you obviously don't understand what I was saying. Firstly, you don't become atheist or agnostic by questioning the doctrine of your church but by questioning the very foundation of religious belief. Believe me, as an agnostic, I'm a lot more irritated by Pentecostal churches than by the Catholic church and other orthodox churches. I almost see many of you as being enslaved. I never told you the Catholic church wrote the New Testament, so I don't even understand your rant. Why must everything you practise be in the Bible? Do you even know how your Bible was compiled and its history? Did God's revelations to man stop in Bible times? If a man like Paul can write half the New Testament and claim to be divinely inspired, why not anyone who claims the same divine inspiration in post-Bible times like those Popes? We choose what we believe and I've found those who claim to have the only truth are delusional clowns who are often very selective in their claims.

truthislight:

i can see how well you have come along as a servant of God via the RCC.
infact, you are a shining example of what a cathlic servant if God is and should be, you are the kind that they can build with what they feed the sheep.

Do you think i had expected something better from you?

Jesus said: every good tree produces good fruit but every rotten tree produces rotten fruit.

What kind of fruit are you for God?

= agnostic (rotten fruit)

so, what kind of tree produced you ?

truthislight:

i can see how well you have come along as a servant of God via the RCC.
infact, you are a shining example of what a cathlic servant if God is and should be, you are the kind that they can build with what they feed the sheep.

Do you think i had expected something better from you?

Jesus said: every good tree produces good fruit but every rotten tree produces rotten fruit.

What kind of fruit are you for God?

= agnostic (rotten fruit)

so, what kind of tree produced you ?

truthislight:

i can see how well you have come along as a servant of God via the RCC.
infact, you are a shining example of what a cathlic servant if God is and should be, you are the kind that they can build with what they feed the sheep.

Do you think i had expected something better from you?

Jesus said: every good tree produces good fruit but every rotten tree produces rotten fruit.

What kind of fruit are you for God?

= agnostic (rotten fruit)

so, what kind of tree produced you ?

musKeeto:
If you think the Catholic church isn't far off better than the pentecostal churches, you must be living in lala land.
If present day pentecostal churches had brought Christianity to our shores, only the king's children would have had an 'english' education.
If present day pentecostal churches had brought Christianity to our shores, we'd still be colonized thanks to the 'touch not my annointed' mantra.. Present day pentecostalism is the worst insult to Christianity and Jesus' sacrifice..

Obi1kenobi:
And I can see the great fruit your church has yielded by your insolence. Brainwashed, enslaved clown. So you needed Jesus to tell what kind of fruit rotten trees produce?

Obi1kenobi:
That's a poor analogy. For starters, the readings, hymns and homily in those Latin services are in English so most of the service is already in English. The Latin prayers said all have their English equivalent, so again, the congregation understand what's being said even if they can't speak Latin. I certainly understood all the Latin prayers being said.

seriallink: Interesting thread! Subscribing.....

Reyginus: About to re-examine these things again.

truthislight:

what this time?

The Clown: @ op I put it to you that you are not a Catholic.

That haven been said, if you don't like the Church stay out. We understand our worship and we like it like that. All these arguments would lead nowhere because in the first place you've made up your mind what you want to blive.

Reyginus: I'm trying to understand the concept of purgatory. I've battled with myself to discard it, but scriptures keep showing up to make sense out of it.
We were made to understand that, 'after death, comes judgement'. I think we've not given adequate attention to that part of scripture.
What do you understand by 1 Peter 3:18-20?

Reyginus:
What do you understand by 1 Peter 3:18-20?

Rich4god: One question for you... Did God stoped speaking to His people after the demise of the apostle/early christians. Just need a straight forward answer.