italo:

...And I believe the source of Truth is God. Infact Jesus is Truth himself.

God says through St. Paul in 1Tim 3:15 that "the CHURCH (not the Bible) is the pillar and foundation of truth."

The Bible says in 1Tim 3:15 that "the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth."

Why are you then rebelling against God and his word by implying that it is the Bible?

How can you then use the Bible against the Church when the Bible clearly says 'go to the Church for TRUTH?"

^^^
Error! See:

(1 Timothy 2:3-4):
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

So then, what is the truth?
Christ gave the answer:

(John 17:17):

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. " (John 17:17).
....................

^^^
"God's word is truth"


This "truth" that is = the "word of God" is where?

See :

(1 Thessalonians 2:13).
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard from us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
..................


So, we can conclusively say that the apostles are the carriers of the word of God.

Peace.

italo:


When did this "totality of the children of God under one umbrella" give us the Bible and under what umbrella was it?

The word bible means little books = 66books.

The bible is made up of the OT and NT.

The OT we know contain the history of the Jewish people written by prophets, Judges, kings and levites. Completed befor the coming of christ.

The NT we know are the epistle of christ apostles and teachings and was completed in the 1ce, they all died off Withing the 1ce.

This epistle of the apostles is what was brought together = NT.

OT and NT = what is called the bible.

Peace.

(Pls, let us try and respect God and his word atleast, that is if "we" belief that God exist. )

@truthislight

Stopb blabbing!! The canon of the scriptures which the catholic church gave the bible.The word bible never exixted before then

@truthislight

Stopb blabbing!! The canon of the scriptures which the catholic church gave the bible didn't exist until the fourth century.The word bible never exixted before then.

The books in the bible are not the only scriptures that were written.Get that into your head.

Kay 17:

Hmmm

@regy and italo

The Church structure is still intact today in form of the Catholic Church. All other churches find their therefrom.

This is what makes the belivers or followers of christ:

(1 Timothy 2:3-4).
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

And to get the knowledge you follow this:

(1 Thessalonians 2:13).
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
...................

Stop saying what you know nothing about please.


Is it humans that set the rules? No.

The rules are all there in the bible.

Reyginus:
1. The catholic church is only a denomination of the church. As long as the catholic church doesn't house all christains, it cannot lay claim to compiling the bible. The church is as old as christainity, while the catholic church is as old as the great rebellion.
2. The bible will tell you.

What sort of reasoning is this? Are trying to refute a hhistorical fact with this trash!!! You really amaze me

FYI

The last stanza of the creed professes belief in the holy catholic church.If you do not believe this as it obviously seems you are not catholic

chukwudi44: @truthislight

Stopb blabbing!! The canon of the scriptures which the catholic church gave the bible.The word bible never exixted before then

old stories.

What i stated there can even be verified by just reading the bible.

chukwudi44: @truthislight

Stopb blabbing!! The canon of the scriptures which the catholic church gave the bible didn't exist until the fourth century.The word bible never exixted before then.

The books in the bible are not the only scriptures that were written.Get that into your head.

same old stories.

Those other books are not part of this scriptures and were not written by the apostles of christ. Infact, they contradict the bible.
Peace.

Reyginus:
1. The catholic church is only a denomination of the church. As long as the catholic church doesn't house all christains, it cannot lay claim to compiling the bible. The church is as old as christainity, while the catholic church is as old as the great rebellion.
2. The bible will tell you.

Could you please expatiate on this great rebellion which you claimed marked the inception of the catholic church? Who were the principal actors? Who founded the catholic church? Who was the first pope? So much for an impostor who claims to be catholic

truthislight:

This is what makes the belivers or followers of christ:

(1 Timothy 2:3-4).
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
..................

And to get the knowledge you follow this:

(1 Thessalonians 2:13).
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
...................

Stop saying what you know nothing about please.


Is it humans that set the rules? No.

The rules are all there in the bible.

Where are the interpretational rules of Bible??

Kay 17:

Where are the interpretational rules of Bible??

Here:

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem." (Isaiah 28:9-14).

You didn't answer my question still

Kay 17: You didn't answer my question still

How?

Scripture explains scriptures.

No room to use your head knowledge else you derail.

italo:

"Denomination" is a word that protestants like to use to validate themselves but that word doesn't exist in Christianity. There is only one Church that Jesus founded with one faith and one doctrine. All those other shops you call denominations were founded by men who sought their own agenda. And that includes every one of them.

So if the Catholic Church didn't compile the Bible, when did this your "totality of God's children under one umbrella" compile it?

When did this "great rebellion" happen and how?



Stop dodging. It isn't the Bible that is spewing bulls.hit, its you. I'm asking you a question about what you said.

What ways in which God transmits his word are established and what ways aren't?

1. Italo, To me, it doesn't matter what the protestants think is denomination. What you fail to understand here is that the moment the church tagged itself as catholic, it is already a denomination.
italo, I'm not here to give you a history of the great rebellion. But to make it easier for you, go read all on the German monk Martin Luther.
2. I don't dodge in anything I do. Since you're anxious for an answer. You see italo, the ways which God minister his words must never contradict his word. Let's take the issue of images for example. The word of God as we know it warned against erecting images as a means of worship. So clearly written. Doing the opposite is a contradiction of His word.

italo:

To answer your question, it was this your "totality" rubbish that gave us the Catholic Church... It was Jesus.

It is you who said just "knowing" Christ will take you to heaven automatically. I don't understand how it is me who now has to explain it. It should be you.

Now can you pls answer my very simple questions.


Thank you.

italo, I don't discuss nor argue as you're trying to do. Ad hominem. You've not yet answered my question, but you're demanding I answer yours. It doesn't work that way.
To know christ, italo, is to experience him in our lives. To experience him, you must have a direct contact with him. One with a direct contact to christ will surely see God.
What do you think?

italo:

'...what you THINK is happening...'

Shouldn't you be sure before spewing thrash in public?

I said you are rebelling against God and his word because God, through his word, tells you clearly to go to the Church for the truth...and that is not what you are doing, is it?

Rather you are telling God that the Church is not the pillar and foundation of the truth but it is the pillar and foundation of lies.

If this isn't rebellion, what is?

Lol. Do you mean that things which we are sure of, do not pass through a crucible of thinking?
The reason catholic church will remain the same. Any organization or human that cannot handle criticisms is not worthy to head a society. So because I pointed out the errors in catholism, I am now rebelling. Interestingly, and for the records too, you're yet to use the bible to convince me of any of these things, as I expected.

italo: @ Reyginus, here's the Nicene Creed.

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

For you to claim that you believe the above and still say all that you have said indicates that you are either a liar or a fool. Sorry to say.

italo, I've treated you like I'd treat an intelligent person but you're trying to compel me do the opposite. I believe in the creed too. What I don't understand now is how my posts on the error of catholism contradicts the apostle creed. Where did I contradict any of the above? Just show me, no insults please.

truthislight:

For a teaching to be said to be biblical, it must flow from Genesis to revelation.

How can a doctrine like this just stand alone? When a teaching like resurrection flows from OT to NT.

Does it seem normal to you?

Truth, you shouldn't bother yourself on how it stands, but on whether it makes sense how it is standing.

Kay 17:

Hmmm

@regy and italo

The Church structure is still intact today in form of the Catholic Church. All other churches find their therefrom.

Kay, I don't think so. The early church never used images nor the rosary.

chukwudi44:

What sort of reasoning is this? Are trying to refute a hhistorical fact with this trash!!! You really amaze me

FYI

The last stanza of the creed professes belief in the holy catholic church.If you do not believe this as it obviously seems you are not catholic

You know what chukwudi. I believe in people explaining why an idea is trash. Do you mind doing the honors?
How old do you take the creed to be?

chukwudi44:

Could you please expatiate on this great rebellion which you claimed marked the inception of the catholic church? Who were the principal actors? Who founded the catholic church? Who was the first pope? So much for an impostor who claims to be catholic

I answered italo on this one. For emphasis, I will repeat it again. In order of the questions.
1. Read Martin Luther as I instructed italo.
2. Still read Martin lurther.
3. Read all about the rebellion.
4. Peter. But he wasn't a catholic.

Reyginus:
I) Exodus 25:18-19:' make two winged creatures of hammered gold, one for each of the lid'
The point 'we' miss here is that there was an orderer(God) 25vs1. We sideline that important determinant factor. God, the orderer was giving an order which must be obeyed.
In our case, who ordered our church(catholic) to make statues? A man. Who's man to know better the creators choice of worship? Is it biblically correct? No. So, why practise it?

how did you know God didnt talk to any of the pope or priest to start creating idols? it must be written down in the bible for you to believe?

babaearly:

how did you know God didnt talk to any of the pope or priest to start creating idols? it must be written down in the bible for you to believe?

Don't mind him.He seems to reason through his bombom.His arguments are so illogical that you begin to wonder if you are chatting with a ten year old kid.

Reyginus: I answered italo on this one. For emphasis, I will repeat it again. In order of the questions.
1. Read Martin Luther as I instructed italo.
2. Still read Martin lurther.
3. Read all about the rebellion.
4. Peter. But he wasn't a catholic.

I don't need to read up anything as I am already conversant with the history of martin luther and the protestant reformation.I still do not see what that has got to do with the compilation of the bible which happened 1100 years before the reformation.

Do you really mean to tell me that peter was actually the first pope of the catholic church yet he was not catholic? Do you reason @ all?

babaearly:

how did you know God didnt talk to any of the pope or priest to start creating idols? it must be written down in the bible for you to believe?

Lololol......seriously?!!

chukwudi44:

Don't mind him.He seems to reason through his bombom.His arguments are so illogical that you begin to wonder if you are chatting with a ten year old kid.

Even more Loooool........Are you guys really serious??!

babaearly:

how did you know God didnt talk to any of the pope or priest to start creating idols? it must be written down in the bible for you to believe?

What is this garbage??.......

Nonsense!!!!......smh......

@Reginus

You claimed you do believe in the apostles and nicene creeds yet you question the propriety of saying the rosary.

What do you really understand by these stanza of the creeds.

"I believe in the holy catholic church.....the COMMUNION OF SAINTS.....

Do you believe in the communion of saints? Yes or No

chukwudi44: @Reginus

You claimed you do believe in the apostles and nicene creeds yet you question the propriety of saying the rosary.

What do you really understand by these stanza of the creeds.

"I believe in the holy catholic church.....the COMMUNION OF SAINTS.....

Do you believe in the communion of saints? Yes or No

What has the communion of the saints got to do with praying the rosary?

Besides it is a dubious method of questioning to ask someone to explain what he really understands and then restrict him to giving you a "yes or no" answer.
Are you really interested in him to telling you what he unerstands or are you just hunting for a monosyllabic soundbite to latch on to?

chukwudi44: @Reginus

You claimed you do believe in the apostles and nicene creeds yet you question the propriety of saying the rosary.

What do you really understand by these stanza of the creeds.

"I believe in the holy catholic church.....the COMMUNION OF SAINTS.....

Do you believe in the communion of saints? Yes or No

Mba!! I see no saint. What i see is the communion of idol worshipers. How can idol worshipers claim to be saints?

Reyginus: Truth, you shouldn't bother yourself on how it stands, but on whether it makes sense how it is standing.

I have not even seen it standing, let alone it making sense.

chukwudi44:

I don't need to read up anything as I am already conversant with the history of martin luther and the protestant reformation.I still do not see what that has got to do with the compilation of the bible which happened 1100 years before the reformation.

Do you really mean to tell me that peter was actually the first pope of the catholic church yet he was not catholic? Do you reason @ all?

Did not the word "catholic" came up and in use after Apostle Peter had died?

The coining of the word catholic was after the dead of all of christ apostles and the person that coined it was not an apostle.

Mr_Anony:
What has the communion of the saints got to do with praying the rosary?

Besides it is a dubious method of questioning to ask someone to explain what he really understands and then restrict him to giving you a "yes or no" answer.
Are you really interested in him to telling you what he unerstands or are you just hunting for a monosyllabic soundbite to latch on to?

Oga Anony,the op had claimed he beleived in the apostles and nicene creeds.The communion of the saints in the context of the creeds implies communion between the faithfuls on earth and the saints in heaven.If he truly beleives in the creed there is no basis for him to question the validity of the rosary which is based on that same principle.