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My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by didoburns(m): 9:56pm On Feb 01, 2013
Reyginus: The Pope's Infallibility
The immunity to error. To us, the infallibility of the pope, flows naturally from the infallibility of the church.
The question is, is the church(catholic) infallible to begin with?
That you'll answer yourself by the time I'm done.
I am not confusing infallibility with impeccability please. Only that, for infallibility to exist where their is no impeccability, is not possible.
Accordingly, when he(the Pope) defines an article of faith/moral he is infallible, except otherwise. I think we have a problem. Does the Pope operate as a dual entity?
Is it not the same person that makes the moral and faith truths, make the non-impeccable entity?
Can character be dualistic?
I am not trying to act like luther who described the papacy as a 'human invention',but infallibility of the Pope I will look with a similar lense.
Their was a time we had two popes. How do you weigh them in the infallible scale?
This notion is wrong. Let's drop it.
Examples:
Reyginus it is very clear you never took time to understand the churches teaching on all the points you raised issues with, and thats why i wont exchange words with you but if sincerely you would really want to hear the catholic side of the story on all the misconception you have raised drop ur email and i would get back to you.
i) Pope Gregory xiv was misled by corrupt officials.
ii) Pope innocent xiii made his brother cardinal and practised nepotism
iii) Pius vii crowned napoleon emperor in paris, but later excommunicated him after the emperor occupied rome. Lol.
What infallibility? It is a contradiction of infallibility to breed fallibility.
When we believe a thing for the sake of faith-preservation, we're preparing the faith for self-termination.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 10:04pm On Feb 01, 2013
truthislight:

which people?

The apostles warned that after the death of the apostles wolves in sheep clothing will come in and teach false hood.

Why the warning?

Were the apostles stupid or God made a mistake?
*sigh*
You didnt answer my question... or are you trying to say that God stopped revealing things to people on earth after the death of the apostles.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 11:38pm On Feb 01, 2013
Rich4god: One question for you... Did God stoped speaking to His people after the demise of the apostle/early christians. Just need a straight forward answer.
No.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 11:54pm On Feb 01, 2013
Lovely@truthislight. I get your point. But the problem of why he has to go preach to the imprisoned spirits is still not clear to me. That's the crux of the matter for me. Another thing is, if we agree it serves the purpose of purifying them for the kingdom of God, we have indirectly accepted the concept of purgatory. If on the other hand, we insist it is not for the good of the kingdom, where then is the reasom. I really want to know.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by alexleo(m): 1:04am On Feb 02, 2013
chukwudi44: I initially wanted to ignore this thread but for the fact that I wanted to make some things clear

@op

It is obvious you are not a catholic or even if you were you were completely ignorant of the church's doctrines.

You cannot even correctly define papal infallibility as what you wrote here is completely thrash.kindly gooogle or better still go the wikipedia to get the correct definition of papal infallibility.

You are completely ignorant of the meaning and processes involved in proclaimation of saints.most of what you wrote here are completely baseless and obviously the work of a fundamentalist christian
Noise makers at work. Point out where poster is wrong and stop ranting. All what you people have been doing is to bash him. He has made interesting points that you should reason at for your own good. If you think he is wrong, tackle his point and not his person. or you simply bow out in shame. Thanks dude.

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Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ijawkid(m): 1:06am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Lovely@truthislight. I get your point. But the problem of why he has to go preach to the imprisoned spirits is still not clear to me. That's the crux of the matter for me. Another thing is, if we agree it serves the purpose of purifying them for the kingdom of God, we have indirectly accepted the concept of purgatory. If on the other hand, we insist it is not for the good of the kingdom, where then is the reasom. I really want to know.

what does the purgatory teach??.....isnt it about the souls of dead persons being stored up in some kinda prison??....do you agree that the spirits Jesus preached to as recorded in 1 peter wasn't the souls of dead people as the teaching of purgatory would claim??.....

and what was preached to those spirits if you insist must definitly have been the message of judgement.....chikena......Jesus must have told the disobedient spirit creatures that ""oboy ona destruction don near well well o...make ona ready""..... grin grin grin grin grin

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Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by alexleo(m): 1:07am On Feb 02, 2013
@poster,
You have spoken so well and God will bless you. They dont want to reason well and come out from their nonsense belief and practices. Keep up your good work my brother.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 3:27am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: No.
Good... Case closed.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 8:06am On Feb 02, 2013
ijawkid:

what does the purgatory teach??.....isnt it about the souls of dead persons being stored up in some kinda prison??....do you agree that the spirits Jesus preached to as recorded in 1 peter wasn't the souls of dead people as the teaching of purgatory would claim??.....

and what was preached to those spirits if you insist must definitly have been the message of judgement.....chikena......Jesus must have told the disobedient spirit creatures that ""oboy ona destruction don near well well o...make ona ready""..... grin grin grin grin grin


Ijawkid, let's not base that verse on mere assumptions please. I want us to discuss. I would also like you to pretend that you don't believe nor disbelief the purgatory concept. That way, we can eliminate any bias. Let's analyse it bit by bit. I really want to understand this purgatory concept. Can you now explain the verse ,this time around, from a different angle.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 8:12am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
Good... Case closed.
No, it can't be closed. Take a look at Rev 22:18
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ijawkid(m): 8:13am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Ijawkid, let's not base that verse on mere assumptions please. I want us to discuss. I would also like you to pretend that you don't believe nor disbelief the purgatory concept. Let's analyse it bit by bit. I really want to understand this purgatory concept. Can you now explain the verse ,this time around, from a different angle.

My comments were not based on assumptions.......that is why I asked ::: WHAT is purgatory??........

Can you define what purgatory is??........
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 8:17am On Feb 02, 2013
ijawkid:

My comments were not based on assumptions.......that is why I asked ::: WHAT is purgatory??........

Can you define what purgatory is??........
Purgatory is a place, according to the catholic church, where souls that are not perfect are tormented before they gain perfection and access into God's kingdom, from intercession of the brethrens.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 8:18am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Lovely@truthislight. I get your point. But the problem of why he has to go preach to the imprisoned spirits is still not clear to me. That's the crux of the matter for me. Another thing is, if we agree it serves the purpose of purifying them for the kingdom of God, we have indirectly accepted the concept of purgatory. If on the other hand, we insist it is not for the good of the kingdom, where then is the reasom. I really want to know.

Angels are not imperfect like humans.

Like Adam who was perfect, he did not act out of ignorance, so, Adam got a direct sentence.

The angles are in similar position/situations.

Jesus christ faithfulness to the end serves as the basis for their judgement, that a perfect human can remain faithful and serve God.

Just like preaching to siners serves as the basis for judgement for siners that will be destroy at the end of this system of things so was Jesus testimonies to them.

(Matthew 24:14).
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).
...................

The perfect fallen angels own case serves as their judgment hence awaiting their subsequent destruction. Just like Adam had no second chance since he was perfect and he was not ignorant of what he did.
Peace.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 8:20am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Purgatory is a place, according to the catholic church, where souls that are not perfect are tormented before they gain perfection and access into God's kingdom, from intercession of the brethrens.
Now this got me cracking.... grin grin grin tongue tongue tongue... I thought you said you were once a catholic. The last time I checked, catholics didnt realy define purgatory as a place, but rather a STATE.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 8:23am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: No, it can't be closed. Take a look at Rev 22:18
What about it... Tell me what we added to the word of God...
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 8:26am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: No, it can't be closed. Take a look at Rev 22:18

^^^
Good.

(Revelation 22:18-19).
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:18-19).
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ijawkid(m): 8:28am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Purgatory is a place, according to the catholic church, where souls that are not perfect are tormented before they gain perfection and access into God's kingdom, from intercession of the brethrens.

cheesy............did peter tell us that it was disembodied souls that were in prison or spirits??........

Remember for purgatory to hold in the first place we have to know who or what are in that prison..............

A little question for you:::...when we die according to the scriptures where does the spirit of man(either bad or good) go to??........God or purgatory??........

1 Like

Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 8:29am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
Now this got me cracking.... grin grin grin tongue tongue tongue... I thought you said you were once a catholic. The last time I checked, catholics didnt realy define purgatory as a place, but rather a STATE.

Why not use the bible and do the work?

Na wa for you people o!
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ijawkid(m): 8:32am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
Now this got me cracking.... grin grin grin tongue tongue tongue... I thought you said you were once a catholic. The last time I checked, catholics didnt realy define purgatory as a place, but rather a STATE.

Its defined as either a state or place........
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 8:34am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Purgatory is a place, according to the catholic church, where souls that are not perfect are tormented before they gain perfection and access into God's kingdom, from intercession of the brethrens.


There is no place like that ^^^ in the bible.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 8:37am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
What about it... Tell me what we added to the word of God...

too many to mention.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 8:49am On Feb 02, 2013
truthislight:

Why not use the bible and do the work?

Na wa for you people o!
Isaiah 4:4 ...When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.
Matthew 12:32 ... And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Zechariah 9:11 ... As for you also, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will set your captives free from the waterless pit.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Rich4god(m): 8:54am On Feb 02, 2013
truthislight:

too many to mention.
Start with one...
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Tinablack: 9:21am On Feb 02, 2013
Shame 2 Christainity!!!! I love U Christ bt I hate U Christains, cos U r nt like ur Christ!

Christainity s d worst religion! I'm ashamed 2 b 1.

Hw many times av d muslims come on line 2 talk ill of 1 anoda or islam? Neva a tym.


Bad set of pple!!!

Shame 2 u Christains. Jesus must b disapointed. Luk @ d shameless pple he died 4!!

D world will b a beta place wen Christainity bekams 1!

BAN me if u so wish! U pple so hate 2 hear d truth!



Mtcheeeeeeeeeeew!

1 Like

Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Kay17: 9:57am On Feb 02, 2013
I didnt intend to say much, however Regy, you are making a single mistake: the role of the Bible. You seem to judge the Catholics for not strictly following the Bible to the letter as Pentecostals are expected to.

So you ought to have started explaining what the appropriate role of the Bible ought to be and why. And then your regular critique should have followed.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 10:42am On Feb 02, 2013
truthislight:

Angels are not imperfect like humans.

Like Adam who was perfect, he did not act out of ignorance, so, Adam got a direct sentence.

The angles are in similar position/situations.

Jesus christ faithfulness to the end serves as the basis for their judgement, that a perfect human can remain faithful and serve God.

Just like preaching to siners serves as the basis for judgement for siners that will be destroy at the end of this system of things so was Jesus testimonies to them.

(Matthew 24:14).
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).
...................

The perfect fallen angels own case serves as their judgment hence awaiting their subsequent destruction. Just like Adam had no second chance since he was perfect and he was not ignorant of what he did.
Peace.
Truth, I don't know if you're getting my point. I don't think the above explanation is not exactly what I'm asking for. My concern for now is not on the perfection or imperfection of angels, but on the theological implication of the verse(1 Peter 3:18-20). Truth, that's what I want us to discuss.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 10:53am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
Now this got me cracking.... grin grin grin tongue tongue tongue... I thought you said you were once a catholic. The last time I checked, catholics didnt realy define purgatory as a place, but rather a STATE.
Lol. Dude, not once, I'm still a catholic. And to the above.
The reason I used the phrase is this.
Defining the term 'purgatory' inclusively, without an isolation to the originators of the word, encapsulating the non-believers, will make my definition universal. And it shouldn't be so. For it to be so, their has to be a concord existing among the universal.
To purgatory been a state, that's not what I learnt in catecism class. My definition has no problem.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 10:54am On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
What about it... Tell me what we added to the word of God...
Read Post 1-7 again.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 11:05am On Feb 02, 2013
ijawkid:

cheesy............did peter tell us that it was disembodied souls that were in prison or spirits??........

Remember for purgatory to hold in the first place we have to know who or what are in that prison..............

A little question for you:::...when we die according to the scriptures where does the spirit of man(either bad or good) go to??........God or purgatory??........
Ijawkid, you should endeavour look inbetween the lines. The word 'soul' as used in my definition, tends to describe an entity, the state of existence.
A look at the second information from verse 20, tells us the inhabitants of this prison. Humans.
When we die, according to the bible, our spirits neither go to purgatory nor to God, but wait for judgement.
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by Nobody: 11:07am On Feb 02, 2013
truthislight:


There is no place like that ^^^ in the bible.
What are we then talking about. What do now make of the place christ preached to?
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by ijawkid(m): 11:48am On Feb 02, 2013
Reyginus: Ijawkid, you should endeavour look inbetween the lines. The word 'soul' as used in my definition, tends to describe an entity, the state of existence.
A look at the second information from verse 20, tells us the inhabitants of this prison. Humans.
When we die, according to the bible, our spirits neither go to purgatory nor to God, but wait for judgement.

ok so you mean to understand that the souls in your definition are those who had not died but were kept alive somewhere in some confined system??..verse 20 in no way tells us that the inhabitants of the prison peter mentioned are humans....it sure says its inhabitants are spirits.....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

-----------------
it is clear where all spirits return to or go to after a man dies.....there isnt any interim abode were the spirits of humans go to reside so as to be refined or preached to.....

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20 the Greek word for “spirits” is pneu′ma·sin, while the word rendered “souls” is psy·khai′.again The “spirits” were not disembodied souls but disobedient angels; while the “souls” in verse 20 referred to living people, humans, Noah and his household,the 8 who survived....

wicked persons(humans) who disobeyed God during noahs day met there end(destroyed by the deluge) and were not stored in a prison....it was the disobedient spirits(wicked angels) who were imprisoned so to speak and not humans.....

my effort here is to help you see that it wasnt humans or the souls of humans that were locked up in prison...
Re: My Problem With Catholism-An Introspection by truthislight: 5:00pm On Feb 02, 2013
Rich4god:
Isaiah 4:4 ...When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.
Matthew 12:32 ... And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Zechariah 9:11 ... As for you also, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will set your captives free from the waterless pit.

the bible said "know the truth and the truth will set you free"

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

Even Jesus christ knew that there will be a departing from the true faith and he warned against it.

Take note.

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