Kay 17: I didnt intend to say much, however Regy, you are making a single mistake: the role of the Bible. You seem to judge the Catholics for not strictly following the Bible to the letter as Pentecostals are expected to.

So you ought to have started explaining what the appropriate role of the Bible ought to be and why. And then your regular critique should have followed.

even a die had atheist and evolutionist will defend catholic against the bible.
Smh.

Satan is at work.

Is this atheist forgetting "there is no god" according to him?

Or, do you and RCC serve the same purpose?

Well, anything can happened, afteral, most of the atheist are RCC members and former Catholics.

Reyginus: What are we then talking about. What do now make of the place christ preached to?

Angels held in a condition that they cannot enter into heaven and cannot materialised into humans.

Traped in that state.

They cannot mixe freely with Yahweh's holy angles and cannot come back to human form like they did in noah's day. = prison = restricted freedom.

Does not mean that they are held in a geographical location.

I wonder how one looks @ this verse and concludes it was talking about angels.The verse clearly says only eight people in all were saved through water.was it angels that was saved in Noah's boat?

1 Peter 3:18-22

New International Version (NIV)

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

I wonder how one looks @ this verse and concludes it was talking about angels.The verse clearly says only eight people in all were saved through water.was it angels that was saved in Noah's boat?

1 Peter 3:18-22

New International Version (NIV)

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Verse 6 of chapter 4 even explains it more explicitly.The good news was preached to the dead.do angels die?

1 Peter 4:5-6

New International Version (NIV)

5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Reyginus: Read Post 1-7 again.

The last time i checked, those stuff you quoted are traditions of the church and were not added to the bible.

truthislight:

the bible said "know the truth and the truth will set you free"

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

Even Jesus christ knew that there will be a departing from the true faith and he warned against it.

Take note.

Na wa 4 you guy... You asked for a bible quote about purgatory, which i provided. But now you are talking about truth... Which truth again do you need.

Reyginus: Read Post 1-7 again.

That verse was not talking about the bible.The bible didn't exist then.Even the book of revelation itself was disputed and was almost left out of the bible.

Tinablack: Shame 2 Christainity!!!! I love U Christ bt I hate U Christains, cos U r nt like ur Christ!

Christainity s d worst religion! I'm ashamed 2 b 1.

Hw many times av d muslims come on line 2 talk ill of 1 anoda or islam? Neva a tym.


bleeped set of pple!!!

Shame 2 u Christains. Jesus must b disapointed. Luk @ d shameless pple he died 4!!

D world will b a beta place wen Christainity bekams 1!

BAN me if u so wish! U pple so hate 2 hear d truth!



Mtcheeeeeeeeeeew!

It's not like that my sister. You don't have to hiss. We're not quarrelling nor bashing any belief, rather, we are trying to understand the authenticity of the things we hold onto.

Kay 17: I didnt intend to say much, however Regy, you are making a single mistake: the role of the Bible. You seem to judge the Catholics for not strictly following the Bible to the letter as Pentecostals are expected to.

So you ought to have started explaining what the appropriate role of the Bible ought to be and why. And then your regular critique should have followed.

Kay, I'm not judging the catholic church, neither do I assume the practise of the pentecostals as supreme. For the records, I'm yet to see any pentecostal church bereft of errors. It's not a matter of self-righteousness.
Explaining the roles the bible play would be tedious, but not the other way round.
Do you have any problem with the things up there?

ijawkid:

ok so you mean to understand that the souls in your definition are those who had not died but were kept alive somewhere in some confined system??..verse 20 in no way tells us that the inhabitants of the prison peter mentioned are humans....it sure says its inhabitants are spirits.....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

-----------------
it is clear where all spirits return to or go to after a man dies.....there isnt any interim abode were the spirits of humans go to reside so as to be refined or preached to.....

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20 the Greek word for “spirits” is pneu′ma·sin, while the word rendered “souls” is psy·khai′.again The “spirits” were not disembodied souls but disobedient angels; while the “souls” in verse 20 referred to living people, humans, Noah and his household,the 8 who survived....

wicked persons(humans) who disobeyed God during noahs day met there end(destroyed by the deluge) and were not stored in a prison....it was the disobedient spirits(wicked angels) who were imprisoned so to speak and not humans.....

my effort here is to help you see that it wasnt humans or the souls of humans that were locked up in prison...

No, Ijawkid. That I defined the soul as '..the state of existence..' doesn't entail what you're insinuating. Certainly not.
I think it's time I quote verse 20
'These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat-eight in all-were saved by the water'.
Let's be sincere please. What do you understand by the first sentence in that verse?

truthislight:

Angels held in a condition that they cannot enter into heaven and cannot materialised into humans.

Traped in that state.

They cannot mixe freely with Yahweh's holy angles and cannot come back to human form like they did in noah's day. = prison = restricted freedom.

Does not mean that they are held in a geographical location.

Truth, I think we would have to understand who that scripture was refering to before any further thing. As far as I can tell, symbolism was not employed in that passage. Their is no need to cut and join scripture in this case. I think the verse is too direct for that.

Rich4god:
The last time i checked, those stuff you quoted are traditions of the church and were not added to the bible.

The last time I checked, Rev 22:18, never emphasized on adding of traditions to the bible, but on inculcating 'new' teachings, antagonistic to the ones prescribed in the bible.

chukwudi44:

That verse was not talking about the bible.The bible didn't exist then.Even the book of revelation itself was disputed and was almost left out of the bible.

No, it is. I think your understanding of the what is meant by 'bible' is hindering you here. I understand the 'bible' to be, the word of God.

Reyginus: No, Ijawkid. That I defined the soul as '..the state of existence..' doesn't entail what you're insinuating. Certainly not.
I think it's time I quote verse 20
'These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that noah was building his boat.
Let's be sincere please. What do you understand by the first sentence in that verse?

Which bible re-endition has the bolded??........

Which translation are you quoting from??......

I don't think any of the bible translations tells us that it was the spirit of those who had not obeyed God....it simply tells us about spirits who were disobedient and not the spirit of those who were disobedient......

Hope you can spot the difference??.........

@Regy

I just feel the discourse will be more focussed if the role of the Bible is talked about. Cos you seem to base all your criticism on the foundations of Catholicism for failing to adhere entirely to the Bible.

Reyginus: No, it is. I think your understanding of the what is meant by 'bible' is hindering you here. I understand the 'bible' to be, the word of God.

The Catholic Church created, named and canonized the Bible foR Catholics.

We tell you what the Bible is and isn't; you don't tell us.

The Bible is the word of God but the Bible (canon of scriptures) is not the only way God transmits his word to us. He also does so through sacred tradition.

The New Testament was written by Catholics for Catholics, so you don't explain the Bible to us, we explain to you what God is saying through his Church. The Bible wasn't even addressed to you.

ijawkid:

Which bible re-endition has the bolded??........

Which translation are you quoting from??......

I don't think any of the bible translations tells us that it was the spirit of those who had not obeyed God....it simply tells us about spirits who were disobedient and not the spirit of those who were disobedient......

Hope you can spot the difference??.........

Good News Bible Version.
Maybe, we have to try the NLT bible version then.
From NLT
' Those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowing in that terrible flood'.
The reference here is still on the people who disobeyed the instructions God gave Noah to pass on.

Kay 17: @Regy

I just feel the discourse will be more focussed if the role of the Bible is talked about. Cos you seem to base all your criticism on the foundations of Catholicism for failing to adhere entirely to the Bible.

Kay, the thing is, the moment we begin to focus on the roles the bible plays, and not as I put it, we deviate from 'my problem with catholism'.

italo:

The Catholic Church created, named and canonized the Bible foR Catholics.

We tell you what the Bible is and isn't; you don't tell us.

The Bible is the word of God but the Bible (canon of scriptures) is not the only way God transmits his word to us. He also does so through sacred tradition.

The New Testament was written by Catholics for Catholics, so you don't explain the Bible to us, we explain to you what God is saying through his Church. The Bible wasn't even addressed to you.

I don't even agree the catholic church gave us the bible. The 'Church' did. The Catholic Church is not as old as the church. They are two different things. That's by the way.
GOD transmit His word by many ways, but the thing is, none of these ways must contradict the ways He's already established.

Reyginus: Kay, the thing is, the moment we begin to focus on the roles the bible plays, and not as I put it, we deviate from 'my problem with catholism'.

That is your real problem with Catholics actually. The foundation of Faith.

^^^ Yep, it is very misleading and even fraudulent to say that the [Roman] Catholic Church "created" or "canonized" the Bible or whatever.

Kay 17:

That is your real problem with Catholics actually. The foundation of Faith.

That is what I've been doing here if you'd looked at it very well.

Enigma: ^^^ Yep, it is very misleading and even fraudulent to say that the [Roman] Catholic Church "created" or "canonized" the Bible or whatever.

Only if one can establish the same structure overseeing the Church is the same with the Catholic Church now.

I'm going to treat this thread as a matter of history not theology

Reyginus: Good News Bible Version.
Maybe, we have to try the NLT bible version then.
From NLT
' Those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowing in that terrible flood'.
The reference here is still on the people who disobeyed the instructions God gave Noah to pass on.

It still does not say it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead)...........it simply says spirits who were disobedient.........

New Living Translation (NLT)
19 So he went and preached to the spirits in
prison—

Precept upon precept from the scriptures has clearly shown that only the wicked demons(spirits) or fallen angels that came down during noahs day were locked up in dense darkness(prison).......no where else in the scripture supports the notion that the spirits of those who were destroyed by the flood during noahs day were kept in some limbo..............
---------------------------------------------------------
If you can clearly show us from that verse that it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead) that were stored up in prison and not already existing spirit creatures who disobeyed I'll appreciate it.............

ijawkid:

It still does not say it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead)...........it simply says spirits who were disobedient.........

New Living Translation (NLT)
19 So he went and preached to the spirits in
prison—

Precept upon precept from the scriptures has clearly shown that only the wicked demons(spirits) or fallen angels that came down during noahs day were locked up in dense darkness(prison).......no where else in the scripture supports the notion that the spirits of those who were destroyed by the flood during noahs day were kept in some limbo..............
---------------------------------------------------------
If you can clearly show us from that verse that it was the spirit of those who disobeyed(spirit of the dead) that were stored up in prison and not already existing spirit creatures who disobeyed I'll appreciate it.............

Ijawkid, are you playing games with me or you're serious? I don't get why you're deliberately finding it hard to appreciate the subordinate with the main clause. It's not a crime to claim you don't understand the verse. You can take your time. Please, this is a discussion, let's be sincere with ourselves.

Reyginus: No, Ijawkid. That I defined the soul as '..the state of existence..' doesn't entail what you're insinuating. Certainly not.
I think it's time I quote verse 20
'These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat-eight in all-were saved by the water'.
Let's be sincere please. What do you understand by the first sentence in that verse?

I dont know where you got that ^^^

(1 Peter 3:19-20).
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:19-20).
.....................

Na wao!
Smh.

Reyginus: Truth, I think we would have to understand who that scripture was refering to before any further thing. As far as I can tell, symbolism was not employed in that passage. Their is no need to cut and join scripture in this case. I think the verse is too direct for that.

which verse?

(1 Peter 3:19-20).
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:19-20).

Kay 17: @Regy

I just feel the discourse will be more focussed if the role of the Bible is talked about. Cos you seem to base all your criticism on the foundations of Catholicism for failing to adhere entirely to the Bible.

and who should christians follow if not christ and his apostles? Atheist? .

Reyginus: Good News Bible Version.
Maybe, we have to try the NLT bible version then.
From NLT
' Those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowing in that terrible flood'.
The reference here is still on the people who disobeyed the instructions God gave Noah to pass on.

is good news bible not a catholic bible? Lol.
Smh.

Now i have learnt what they do to you people.

truthislight:

and who should christians follow if not christ and his apostles? Atheist? .

However the Church came before the Bible