Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. - Religion (8) - Nairaland
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| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Zikkyy(m): 7:22pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
Joagbaje: You are so desperate you'll agree with anything that support your cause. am sure if image123 come here to say donkeys were tithing after the law, your response will be: "jeez, that's brilliant. why didn't i think of that" Joagbaje: why is it so difficult for you guys to understand that the his voluntary giving is not because it is stated in the law!  Christians don't give to the poor because the law says they should give to the poor. Nobody is picking anything from the law! we have gone past the law. It just people like you and image123 that relies on the requirement of the law.2 Likes |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 7:57pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
Joagbaje:HOLY GHOST INSPIRED. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 8:07pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
truthislight:YOU TEND TO BE INSULTING AND ANNOYING A TIMES..IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAID WHY REPLY? AND POINT OF CORRECTION MY OPINIONS ARE NOT VAIN AM NOT WHINING SIR, I THINK YOU SHOULD READ MY POST AGAIN BEFORE GIVING AN OBNOXIOUS REMARK. GOD BLESS YOU SIR. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 8:42pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
@ Image123, Joagbaje, Bidam and other viewers, No one is trying to win an argument here. We are showing scriptures and proving what is sound doctrine for Christians. Image123 tried to manipulate Hebrews 7:8 to mean that "here" is a present time when "men who die receive tithe". I know you want to hide under the "sometimes" confusing English of KJV. Let me help you by showing from our exposition that, there are TWO groups being compared and the KJV uses the word, "Here....there" to compare. It was comparing the tithe as in the case of Abraham to the case of the Levites. You abuse scriptures when you force your own interpretation into it. Take a look, New International Version (©1984) In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. New Living Translation (©2007) The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. English Standard Version (©2001) In the one case tithes are received by mortal men, but in the other case, by one of whom it is testified that he lives. New American Standard Bible (©1995) In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. International Standard Version (©2008) Mortal men collect tithes, but we are informed by Scripture that Melchizedek keeps on living. Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And here the children of men who die receive tithes, but there, he about whom the Scriptures testify that he lives. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) Priests receive a tenth of everything, but they die. Melchizedek received a tenth of everything, but we are told that he lives. King James 2000 Bible (©2003) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. American King James Version And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. American Standard Version And here men that die receive tithes; but there one, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. Douay-Rheims Bible And here indeed, men that die, receive thithes: but there he hath witness, that he liveth. Darby Bible Translation And here dying men receive tithes; but there one of whom the witness is that he lives; English Revised Version And here men that die receive tithes; but there one, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. Webster's Bible Translation And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is testified that he liveth. Weymouth New Testament Moreover here frail mortal men receive tithes: there one receives them about whom there is evidence that he is alive. World English Bible Here people who die receive tithes, but there one receives tithes of whom it is testified that he lives. Young's Literal Translation and here, indeed, men who die do receive tithes, and there he, who is testified to that he was living, Hebrews 7:8 from this bible website The comparison of the TWO groups is between the PRIEST who received tithe under the Levitical Priesthood DURING THE LAW and Melchizedek who received tithe from Abraham BEFORE THE LAW. It is a past event in both being compared BUT Image123 in his greed said tithe was collected AFTER the law and quoted Hebrews 7:8 to justify that. There is no where in scripture where tithe was received by ANYONE AFTER THE LAW. 3 Likes |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 9:09pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
@ Image123, Since you have praised the law so much. I see that Zikky and Truthislight had done a good job responding to you. Need we remind you that, the first covenant ONLY existed between God and the Jews according to this scriptures, New Living Translation (©2007) That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth. - Hebrews 9:1 Also, Gentile Christians were NEVER under the law in the first place during the first covenant between God and the Jews according to this scripture from different, New International Version (©1984) (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, New Living Translation (©2007) Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. English Standard Version (©2001) For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. New American Standard Bible (©1995) For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, - Romans 2:14 Telling Christians to obey the LAW of MOSES is heresy! When the law CHANGED/ENDED, Everything ended including tithing, priesthood, sacrifice, worship order etc, everything ended. It is outrightly unscriptural to mix law and Grace together to confuse the NT believers. This is the dilemma of the End time. Also, need we remind you that, New International Version (©1984) Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. New Living Translation (©2007) For Christ has [size=20pt]already accomplished[/size] the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God. My goodness, I LOVE MY New Living Translations.....E be like say I go divorce KJV soon o......  . When you read scriptures, you don't just read.....you follow the tenses in order to get the revelation.English Standard Version (©2001) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. New American Standard Bible (©1995) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4 |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by truthislight: 9:19pm On Nov 29, 2012 |
Bidam: YOU TEND TO BE INSULTING AND ANNOYING A TIMES..IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAID WHY REPLY? AND POINT OF CORRECTION MY OPINIONS ARE NOT VAIN AM NOT WHINING SIR, I THINK YOU SHOULD READ MY POST AGAIN BEFORE GIVING AN OBNOXIOUS REMARK. GOD BLESS YOU SIR. may your "today" tithing god bless you and not me, amen |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by plappville(f): 12:17am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Pastor Kun: @Goshen I THANK HIM TOO, HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB, WELL BACKED UP WITH SCRIPTURES. I HAVE NEVER READ A COMPLETE EXPOSITION ON TITHE LIKE THIS ONE....BRAVO TO OP! |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Image123(m): 12:29am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Goshen360:With the way my boy Gosh was barking here like a violently possessed chicken, one would think he'd have exposed some heresy by now. Instead the guy just sober.lolz. Gosh my brother, dump the tension and pay your tithe, i may reply you in detail later as you expect. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by plappville(f): 12:29am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Bidam: @image.God bless u sir..i really like the part u said i'd rather obey Jesus than a thousand exposition..dat is mind blowing my brother... Jesus and not paul is indeed the Author and Perfecter of our Faith. ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN  ? PLEASE BREAK DOWN THIS YOUR ♪♪. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by plappville(f): 12:37am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Image123: WHAT ABOUT THE ONE HE SAID{ pray that ur flight be not in winter or on the * Sabbath*? and besides, he said he is the lord of the sabbath} Remember, if you break one, you break all. Hypocrite!!! 1 Like |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by plappville(f): 12:41am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Image123: And dont forget to put in practice the no 4 in the 10 COMMANDMENT. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 5:20am On Nov 30, 2012 |
plappville:madam i don't intend to respond to ur ignorance. But i have to so as to set the records straight...i think u ave heard of the word EMPHASIS...Paul was the emphasis added..or is paul the author of ur faith!??Smh! Ayam a believer and i OBEY GOD not the philosopies and ideologies of men. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 5:58am On Nov 30, 2012 |
^^Are you saying Paul's teachings weren't inspired by Jesus/Holy Spirit? If you reject his teachings, you are rejecting Jesus too; unless ofcourse you are not a Christian like Sis. Plappvile asked Smh!!! |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 9:04am On Nov 30, 2012 |
seriallink: ^^Are you saying Paul's teachings weren't inspired by Jesus/Holy Spirit? If you reject his teachings, you are rejecting Jesus too; unless ofcourse you are not a Christian like Sis. Plappvile askedofcos paul teachings were inspired by d Holy Spirit u guys re getting me wrong on dat score..i just fixed paul's name to butress my point on who we should look up to...and while we re on the subject..most school of thots believe d book of hebrew was not written by paul. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by newcreatio(m): 11:27am On Nov 30, 2012 |
Tithing is not a part of the gospel. Finito. God will finance his work with or without your money. We should stop looking for steady monthly income into church by way of tithe and robbing God blackmail. As if that was not enough, we emerged with firstfruit doctrine again. Ahan! Shuo. No wonder we have money to be buying private jets. While I do not condemn ownership of properties by men of God if they get it via their own business acumen (i.e Bishop Oyedepo, Chris Oyakhs, via their publishing houses and stuffs) using their members as clients, as far as am concerned that is good stuff. smart. Have you not asked yourself how the Jehovah's Witnesses do it? They have more rugged faith, they have sufficient to give you their millions worth publications free, and yet when they ask you to give anything as low as N100 you call them thief. So I do not blame your pastors who feast on you using treacherous tithe blackmail to fleece you, because ye are a stiff-necked people. Bottomline, tithe as a principle, that argument is foolish. What is powering your tithe results is FAITH. Faith can activate anything into life. Sad that as Nigerians with all the poverty and joblessness and hopelessness and uselessness of government, we activated our faiths in the wrong direction. 4 Likes |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Image123(m): 11:42am On Nov 30, 2012 |
plappville:plap, please be polite enough to converse with me in English. Thank you. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Image123(m): 11:49am On Nov 30, 2012 |
@plap, hope you're not short too? Amusing and short is not a good combination oh, lolz. I'm kidding oh, you know i sabi tickle you. let me go take my flight, thank you Jesus, today no bi 'Shabbath'. plap for get chance catch me. I'll also have to put on THE WHOLE armour of God just in case. heeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaa. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by debosky(m): 3:24pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Image123, Joagbaje, Bidam and other viewers, Thank you for exposing this truth once and for all - Image123 has persistently misinterpreted this verse as meaning people 'in present continuous' were receiving tithes in the church. Clearly that was not the meaning of the verse. It simply juxtaposes the receipt of tithes by priests (mortal men) and Melchisedek who we are told lives on. Nothing more. Herein lies the potential error in relying on a single verse in one translation as 'evidence' without seeking clarity from other translations that may explain in language better comprehended today. 1 Like |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 3:31pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
debosky: is image123 a Christian or an opportunist ? 1 Like |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 3:37pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
@ Debosky, Image123 had even said in the past on another thread with the same Heb. 7:8 that the, "...he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth" is Christ that is the "he" and is the one that "receiveth" them emphasizing that the "receiveth" is still present tense or present continuous tense. KJV wey Image123 don disappoint him..... , I just can't stop laughing at my brother Image123. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by debosky(m): 3:38pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
More Hebrews 7:8 - But there he receiveth them - The ὡδε, here, in the first clause of this verse refers to Mosaical institutions, as then existing: the εκει, there, in this clause refers to the place in Genesis (Genesis 14:20) where it is related that Abraham gave tithes to Melchisedec, who is still considered as being alive or without a successor, because there is no account of his death, nor of any termination of his priesthood. http://bible.cc/hebrews/7-8.htm frosbel: I think he is. . . .I was once in the same position. Almost 'desperately' looking for 'supporting evidence' where there was none. Again, nothing wrong in giving 10%, 20% or any other percentage of income, but it is wholly down to the individual. There is no instruction for Christians to do so. No reference to us giving tithes, despite the preponderance of Hebrew writers from James to John to Peter to Paul - none. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Nobody: 3:43pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
debosky: of course, I was only joking. I was also held in bondage to this doctrine for much of my Christian life, until a year or so ago. Hopefully he will come to see the light !! |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Joagbaje(m): 4:44pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Zikkyy: Precisely ! Now you're talking. The reason we tithe is not because the law says so . Case finish |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 4:49pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Joagbaje: ...but your tithe and tithing is practiced ACCORDING to the law or the pattern of the law tithing even though you claim tithing was BEFORE the law and the reason you tithe is not because the law said so......Abi Abraham took tithe to the temple or storehouse which you tithe teachers say the church is the storehouse.....  If it is MUST for Christians to follow Abraham tithe from spoils of wars, you MUST also teach them NOT TO KEEP ANYTHING FROM THEIR INCOME...because Abraham as we know did not keep anything he got from the war, he gave EVERYTHING back to the rightful owners...... |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Joagbaje(m): 4:50pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Zikkyy: Precisely ! Now you're talking. The reason Christians tithe is not because the law says so . Case finish |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 4:51pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Goshen360: |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Joagbaje(m): 5:04pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
... but your tithe and tithing is practiced ACCORDING to the law or the pattern of the law tithing even though you claim tithing was BEFORE the law and the reason you tithe is not because the law said so.... Christian tithing is not according to law but by faith of individuals. Tithing is a spiritual principle, as others ,such as prayer, intercession,alms giving, honoring father and mother etc. ..Abi Abraham took tithe to the temple or storehouse which you tithe teachers say the church is the storehouse... He took is to a minister who pronounced blessing on him .the issue there is that the minister has the power to bless. .. If it is MUST for Christians to follow Abraham tithe from spoils of wars, you MUST also teach them NOT TO KEEP ANYTHING FROM THEIR INCOME...because Abraham as we know did not keep anything he got from the war, he gave EVERYTHING back to the rightful owners...... The righfful owner was the victor in the war(abraham) It's a matter of choice what he did with the spoil after giving his tithe. It's a matter of choice what a christian does with his money after giving his tithe. Besides the bible didn't say abraham gave tithe only once . We only have it recorded once. Jacob also was a tither but all the details were not recorded. |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Joagbaje(m): 5:10pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
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| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Image123(m): 5:26pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
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| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by PastorKun(m): 5:57pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Joagbaje: ... You see how you betray your greed? Why is the choice after giving tithe and not before? Are saying christians don't have a choice if they want to tithe or not? Wasn't Abraham's tithe a matter of choice? I still await why you preaching mandatory tithing for christians since you have now admitted that christians don't tithe based on law. 3 Likes |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Goshen360(m): 6:57pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Joagbaje: ... 1. The day you guys begin to understand scriptures, that will probably be the day you will be set loosed. 2. The day your demi-god like Oyakhilome becomes anti-tithe, you will also follow and come back to tell us he is doing that based on "principles" or based on "revelation". You talk of Abraham's tithe as if we didn't cover such in this exposition - Abraham tithe wasn't commanded as the writer of clearly says, "they that are of the Levi have the commandment" meaning the one of Abraham wasn't commanded. 3. You are still ignoring the truth that, each of these group (Levites/Priest and Abraham) discussed on the subject of tithing were brought together when the writer said, "Levi paid tithe in Abraham" which was similar to Paul's argument that when Adam sinned, EVERYONE sinned. Why? Because EVERYONE was IN Adam. So when Levi paid tithe in Abraham, that in itself is spiritual, not physical. When the writer said, "the former commandment is set aside" talking about the Levites who had the commandment to receive tithe; it also nullified the Abraham tithe which is another argument that when Christ became righteous, EVERYONE IN Christ is made righteous. I know very well that you and your demi-gods' greed for tithe will make you close your eyes to the very revelation the writer of Hebrews was saying. Do you think he was just saying "Levi paid tithe in Abraham" for the fun of it Tithe or tithing a mandatory 10% doesn't make anyone more blessed or richer than those who don't tithe, it is hard work and proper management/planning of your income that makes one rich.2 Likes |
| Re: Tithing Ended And Abolished In The N.T - An Exposition On Hebrews Chapter 7. by Zikkyy(m): 7:03pm On Nov 30, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Its actually 'now Joagbaje is reading'. I have been saying the same thing for three years Joagbaje: I hope you will assist in convincing Image123 that tithers don't tithe (or should not be tithing) because it's a requirement of the law. Joagbaje: We know this is not true, as i am yet to see a tither & pastor that don't rely on Malachi 3:10 as the basis for tithing. 4 Likes |
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