mazaje:

So bits and bytes are non physical things?. . .When the bits are deleted they get removes from where they are stored. . .

I put it to you that you cannot define a bit in terms of physical space and mass.

Which scientific theory says that two brains receiving the same input must react the same way?. . .Which scientific theory tells you that two brains must end up with the same thought after receiving the same stimuli?. . .

I was going to answer but davidlyan's answer will do for now.

Because different brains react differently. . .

That's the question I hae been asking you all this while: "why do brains react differently?"

davidylan:

Actually it is not as straight-forward since finger prints are a physical quality that you do not control... YOU can control your own thoughts... how do you do it? Simply by upping your dopamine levels?

If i may throw this in - what is responsible for subjective reality?

Same question I have been asking him all this while.

davidylan:

Now we are getting somewhere... i think everyone here agrees with you that chemical reactions in the brain are responsible for the thought process. Just the same way your leg is responsible for forward or backward movement... but is your leg solely responsible for getting you from point A to B? Is your leg not merely a vehicle to accomplish a conscious choice made by your brain that your leg had absolutely no part in determining? Did your leg unilaterally decide to travel to Lagos on its own without your own input?

I am squarely of the opinion that there is a non-physical portion of the human that is responsible for triggering thought. Your brain chemistry only serves as the messenger to shaping those thoughts.

Non physical?. . .In was of the opinion that there is a portion of the human that is responsible for thought and reason before but not any more. Personally I believe it all lies in the brain. . .For Plants have a rudimentary nervous system this is what allows them to respond to external stimuli they do not have a brain to attach meaning to their responses. Perhaps a deeper understanding of brain chemistry will provide the answers. . .

davidylan:

Actually it is not as straight-forward since finger prints are a physical quality that you do not control... YOU can control your own thoughts... how do you do it? Simply by upping your dopamine levels?

If i may throw this in - what is responsible for subjective reality?

You can ONLY control your own thoughts when you brain is in stable a condition. . .You can not completely control your thoughts if you are under some drugs (your brain is disturbed), or when you suffer brain injury. . .You can even lose your ability to think completely with a brain injury. . .Because of that I am of the opinion that the brain is responsible for it all. . .

mazaje:

Non physical?. . .In was of the opinion that there is a portion of the human that is responsible for thought and reason before but not any more. Personally I believe it all lies in the brain. . .For Plants have a rudimentary nervous system this is what allows them to respond to external stimuli they do not have a brain to attach meaning to their responses. Perhaps a deeper understanding of brain chemistry will provide the answers. . .

I'm not sure talking about plants here is helpful.

We already have a deep understanding of brain chemistry... in actual fact, the deeper we know the more we realize there is more than meets the eye. I note you have consistently skipped a question Anony has been asking for a while which i also asked a while back - what is responsible for subjective reality?

davidylan:

I'm not sure talking about plants here is helpful.

We already have a deep understanding of brain chemistry... in actual fact, the deeper we know the more we realize there is more than meets the eye. I note you have consistently skipped a question Anony has been asking for a while which i also asked a while back - what is responsible for subjective reality?

What else apart from the brain?. . .We do NOT have a complete understanding about brain chemistry. . .Our understanding of it is deep but far from what we will want to know. . .

mazaje:

What else apart from the brain?. . .We do NOT have a complete understanding about brain chemistry. . .Our understaning of it is deep but far from what we will want to know. . .

Huh? The brain is responsible for subjective reality? Please understand what subjective reality is first before you answer the question.

I notice that anytime atheists get stuck, they revert to the "we need to get a deeper understanding" tactic. Excellent get out of jail card.

How on earth did you accept as "fact" that the brain is responsible for thought when we do not have a "deeper understanding" just yet? Amazing.

davidylan:

Huh? The brain is responsible for subjective reality? Please understand what subjective reality is first before you answer the question.

I notice that anytime atheists get stuck, they revert to the "we need to get a deeper understanding" tactic. Excellent get out of jail card.

How on earth did you accept as "fact" that the brain is responsible for thought when we do not have a "deeper understanding" just yet? Amazing.

I said you can ONLY control your thoughts when your brain is in a stable condition. You can not completely control your thoughts if you are under some drugs (your brain is disturbed), or when you suffer brain injury are you saying that some material drug affects the immaterial part of the body that is responsible for thoughts?. . .You can even lose your ability to think completely with a brain injury. . .Because of that I am of the opinion that the brain is responsible for it all. . .I am NOT stuck any where, I am only responding to you based on knowledge that is known. . .The theist keeps making things up and pretending to know things he DOES NOT and can NEVER know and this is pure DISHONESTY. I am never shy to say I do not know. . Because its true I do not know instead of making things up, like souls etc that have NEVER been shown to exist any where but a creation of primitive men that thought people reason with their hearts(go read your bible it is full of people reasoning with their hearts). . .Of course we need deeper understanding because that is the FACT. . . As time goes we gain more knowledge. . .Our understanding of how the brain functions in 50 years to come will be very different from now, there MUST be an improvement. . .The studies that have been carried out so far have shown that the brain is responsible for thought, but the entire brain and its function has not yet been understood completely, do you deny that FACT?. . .

davidylan:

I am squarely of the opinion that there is a non-physical portion of the human that is responsible for triggering thought. Your brain chemistry only serves as the messenger to shaping those thoughts.

So this non physical portion of the body is affected by physical things like drugs and oxygen starvation, and injury to the physical brain, eh?. . .Your mental state is inextricably related to the physical state of your brain. . . .No brain nothing. . .

mazaje:

Do you deny the fact that thoughts are as a results of complex chemical reactions in the brain?. . .I said I don't know but the fact I know is that thoughts are a complex chemical reactions in the brain, do you deny that fact?

faith in unproven fact, similarly like theist faith in unproven God! Am stuck in my UNbelief of all things being just basically matter and nothing more!

mazaje:

I said you can ONLY control your thoughts when your brain is in a stable condition. You can not completely control your thoughts if you are under some drugs (your brain is disturbed), or when you suffer brain injury are you saying that some material drug affects the immaterial part of the body that is responsible for thoughts?. . .You can even lose your ability to think completely with a brain injury. . .Because of that I am of the opinion that the brain is responsible for it all. . .I am NOT stuck any where, I am only responding to you based on knowledge that is known. . .The theist keeps making things up and pretending to know things he DOES NOT and can NEVER know and this is pure DISHONESTY. I am never shy to say I do not know. . Because its true I do not know instead of making things up, like souls etc that have NEVER been shown to exist any where but a creation of primitive men that thought people reason with their hearts(go read your bible it is full of people reasoning with their hearts). . .Of course we need deeper understanding because that is the FACT. . . As time goes we gain more knowledge. . .Our understanding of how the brain functions in 50 years to come will be very different from now, there MUST be an improvement. . .The studies that have been carried out so far have shown that the brain is responsible for thought, but the entire brain and its function has not yet been understood completely, do you deny that FACT?. . .

I was going to touch on the above when we get to question 9 but I'll just quip in something here and we'll still touch on it when we get to question 9. You don't need to reply me so we don't go off on a tangent you can continue exploring it with davidlyan.

@bolded......But then wouldn't the same true if your consciousness was somehow extracted from you and inserted into a computerized robot such that you used it's processor and hard-drive to process and relay information? You would also only be able to control your thoughts as long as the electrical hardware was stable. Any defect on the robot apparatus would hamper your thinking but does that mean that your consciousness therefore has suffered defect? No, not at all.

Your argument is a bit like saying that if you scratch a CD, the information on it suffers. While this might appear to be true, it really isn't. The CD has suffered damage therefore we cannot access the information but this doesn't mean that the information itself is defective in much the same way that tearing a novel does not destroy the story written in it. Notice the parallels I am drawing? I am trying to show you that the apparatus is very different from the person.

Let me give you another example that I hope is a bit more realistic since you talked about drugs. If you have ever been intoxicated or known someone who has, I believe you'll agree with me that you are still quite conscious of yourself but your thinking is somehow hampered i.e. For lack of a better way to put it: "You somehow know what you want to think but somehow you can't think it."

The point I am making is that your brain is not you but is a tool you use to access the world. Your brain does not make sense of information by itself. in fact your brain cannot tell the difference between a memory and a current happening event. The same part of your brain will light up if you were looking at a cup and if you are imagining the same cup with your eyes closed. The brain does not have an intelligence of it's own, you do. The question is who are you? Is your brain you?

Anyway, that's by the way. For now please answer my question 4: How do you explain human subjective consciousness?

The point I am making is that your brain is not you but is a tool you use to access the world. Your brain does not make sense of information by itself. infact your brain cannot tell the difference between a memory an a current event. The same part of your brain will light up if you were looking at a cup and if you are imagining the same cup with your eyes closed. The brain does not have an intelligence of it's own, you do. The question is who are you?

hmm

Mr_Anony:

@bolded......But then wouldn't the same true if your consciousness was somehow extracted from you and inserted into a computerized robot such that you used it's processor and hard-drive to process and relay information? You would also only be able to control your thoughts as long as the electrical hardware was stable. Any defect on the robot apparatus would hamper your thinking but does that mean that your consciousness therefore has suffered defect? No, not at all.

What is this abstract example all about. . .I don't get it. . .

Your argument is a bit like saying that if you scratch a CD, the information on it suffers. While this might appear to be true, it really isn't. The CD has suffered damage therefore we cannot access the information but this doesn't mean that the information itself is defective in much the same way that tearing a novel does not destroy the story written in it. Notice the parallels I am drawing? I am trying to show you that the apparatus is very different from the person.

The information are stored in bytes and bits inside the CD and can be destroyed when scratched.

Let me give you another example that I hope is a bit more realistic since you talked about drugs. If you have ever been intoxicated or known someone who has, I believe you'll agree with me that you are still quite conscious of yourself but your thinking is somehow hampered i.e. For lack of a better way to put it: "You somehow know what you want to think but somehow you can't think it."

It depends on the drugs in question. . .there are some drugs that can make you lose your senses completely and make you do only what the drug whats you to do. . .There are drugs that can give you near death experience regardless, sensations that you can not control on your own but are as a result of the drugs. . .

The point I am making is that your brain is not you but is a tool you use to access the world. Your brain does not make sense of information by itself. in fact your brain cannot tell the difference between a memory and a current happening event. The same part of your brain will light up if you were looking at a cup and if you are imagining the same cup with your eyes closed. The brain does not have an intelligence of it's own, you do. The question is who are you? Is your brain you?

Really, so the brain can not make sense of information?. . .What do you use to make sense of an information if not the brain? Why is it that without a brain you can not make sense of any information. . .The same part of your brain lights up when you are looking at a cup and when you are thinking about because of the stored memory.

Anyway, that's by the way. For now please answer my question 4: How do you explain human subjective consciousness?

I said I don't know but I believe the brain is responsible for it. . .

greatgenius: again you are dancing
1. the filament glows red vai the action of the current..same way the lifeless body animates via the power of the spirit of God
2. yes we know and have established that the current is not the filamet just like the spirit is not the body or you are not your body.
3. yes light from the bulb is neither the filament nor current.. same way life or what you have chosen to call living soul here is not either the body or spirit but a combination of both body and power of the spirit is what brings the life as you know it..
4.(But the objective of bringing the filament and the current together is to get the light)..again we have established that..the objective of the spirit animating the body is to experience life in physicality..or be a living soul as you have termed it..

at this point either you refusing to acknowledge that you are God made man because of fear that your "god" will strike you for heresy or you really lack understanding...

lol.

Dude, you are funny.

All i know the bible says is that we are "made in the image of God"

if i am God and i cannot "change the colour of my hair from black to white"

i only know it was satan that said "Adam will be like God"

greatgenius: ok you failed to answer the question! i didnst ask you about trinity! we havent gotten to that..i ask you if you believe that God the father is equal to God the son or word.. oh and I disagree you sort things out easily.. first everything in its core is in the essence of God.. The true nature and essence of God is not its form. form is an illusiion. God can take on any form and all forms..in your purest form as a light being you can take on any form.. God is not a personification.. she/he/it is simply THE CREATOR. he created you in her image and likeness to create your world as God in flesh..image and likewise here means you are a microcosm of it..not necessarily the form. you were created with the creative power of the universe on your lips. you are a microcosm of her. like God you are a creator and you create your world from the power of your mind. like God your real essence is energy, a light being.. you have all the power of the universe in you... you just ignorant to it..

you have not answered my question.

Are gorillas made in the image of God?

If yes how, if no why?

Am waiting.

davidylan:

very simple... you said (paraphrasing here) that thoughts are purely a result of chemical reactions in the brain. Since it is possible to actually create dopamine in the lab or serotonin... is it possible to create a specific thought pattern by injecting a specific concoction of neurotransmitters into the brain?

human dont fully know how the brain function or its mechanism, how then can that question be valid?

truthislight:

human dont fully know how the function or its mechanism, how then can that question be valid?

LOOK AT THIS PHARISEE *SMDH*

davidylan:

Now we are getting somewhere... i think everyone here agrees with you that chemical reactions in the brain are responsible for the thought process. Just the same way your leg is responsible for forward or backward movement... but is your leg solely responsible for getting you from point A to B? Is your leg not merely a vehicle to accomplish a conscious choice made by your brain that your leg had absolutely no part in determining? Did your leg unilaterally decide to travel to Lagos on its own without your own input?

I am squarely of the opinion that there is a non-physical portion of the human that is responsible for triggering thought. Your brain chemistry only serves as the messenger to shaping those thoughts.

1. it is stating the truth to say that super natural beings (spirit creatures) can infuse ideas into our brain as can be attested to by the bible, but to credit this to an external "soul" outside the man and that can leave the man is unbiblical.

2. The brain is also capable of imaginary abstract reasoning and permutations that can be rehearse later on by the person.,
this with or without external influen.

If i am ask to show from the bible that spirit creatures can influence man from the bible then i will.

Come to look at it, can we access a had drive(cpu) directly and remotely? Yes we can.

That the thought process is not just an internal process is no justification for a notion of an external soul.

This is very clearly stated in the bible as can be seen by visions and "spirit owing to the influence of spirit creature and not an "external soul".

(the bible is written via inspiration of God and not an "external soul" action.

And we know that the soul is not = the spirit or spirit creatures.

Peace

mazaje:

You can ONLY control your own thoughts when you brain is in stable a condition. . .You can not completely control your thoughts if you are under some drugs (your brain is disturbed), or when you suffer brain injury. . .You can even lose your ability to think completely with a brain injury. . .Because of that I am of the opinion that the brain is responsible for it all. . .

yes, the brain is the central processor, but it can be influence externally just as the cpu of a computer can be influence externally via a remote process.

mazaje:

What else apart from the brain?. . .We do NOT have a complete understanding about brain chemistry. . .Our understanding of it is deep but far from what we will want to know. . .

experiences over time can directly have a corolation to ones perception of his evironment.

For starters, ones formative evironment have a direct relation to the individuals interpretation of incidences in ones life later years.

So, subjective reality has a lot to do with the data based from experience of ones mind.

This because the mind as a cpu will always do a random scan of the memory befor sending out an output.

Mr_Anony:

I was going to touch on the above when we get to question 9 but I'll just quip in something here and we'll still touch on it when we get to question 9. You don't need to reply me so we don't go off on a tangent you can continue exploring it with davidlyan.



Anyway, that's by the way. For now please answer my question 4: How do you explain human subjective consciousness?

random memory scan individual specific based on experiences has a lot to do with subjective reality.

mazaje:
I said I don't know but I believe the brain is responsible for it. . .

Ok moving on

5. Do animals, insects and unicellular organisims have souls? If no, why not?

My Answer: Yes animals have souls (Eccl 3:21). I don't think it goes all the way down to unicellular organisms.

My question: How do you explain self-awareness?

Explanation of my question: You have claimed as fact that thoughts are merely physical chemical reactions in a brain (though you haven't backed up this fact). How do these "chemicals" know that you are yourself and distinct from someone else?

Mr_Anony:

My Answer: Yes animals have souls (Eccl 3:21). I don't think it goes all the way down to unicellular organisms.

Why not unicellular organism, they are also alive and posses all the living characteristics of animals. . .So mosquitoes, rats, butterflies, goats, termites, pigs. . .etc all have souls?. . .

My question: How do you explain self-awareness?

Self awareness is a function of the brain. . .

Explanation of my question: You have claimed as fact that thoughts are merely physical chemical reactions in a brain (though you haven't backed up this fact). How do these "chemicals" know that you are yourself and distinct from someone else?

Thoughts are indeed a chain of chemical reaction in the brain it has been shown scientifically, There is a set of chain reactions that take place in your brain when you think about something. . .If your brain malfunctions and the reactions can't take place you won't be able to think at all. . .That is why brain injuries result in the inability to think. . . .Self awareness is a function of the brain. It is the brain that makes you self aware and without it you won't be self aware. . .

mazaje:
Self awareness is a function of the brain. . .

Which is the same thing as saying the ability to travel from place to place is a function of the leg. I suppose your leg has the capacity to just travel wherever it wishes, dragging the rest of you reluctantly along.

If self awareness is a function of the brain then why havent we been able to decipher any distinct difference with the brains of mad people, sociopaths? why is their brain circuitry no different from that of you and me?

mazaje:
Thoughts are indeed a chain of chemical reaction in the brain it has been shown scientifically, There is a set of chain reactions that take place in your brain when you think about something. . .If your brain malfunctions and the reactions can't take place you won't be able to think at all. . .That is why brain injuries result in the inability to think. . . .Self awareness is a function of the brain. It is the brain that makes you self aware and without it you won't be self aware. . .

Sigh... how long are you going to recycle this tired canard?

i explained very clearly earlier on - the brain is merely the physical outlet for a non-physical soul. That is... the soul cannot interact with the physical world without the help of the brain... but the brain by itself is just as useless as a lump of flesh...

If all it takes to generate thought in the brain is a chain of chemical reactions then why are we unable to create a thought in the lab? You have simply glided over that question with the "i dont know" excuse. YET you keep telling us that your "claim" has been shown scientifically even though you provide no evidence for that whatsoever.

davidylan:

Which is the same thing as saying the ability to travel from place to place is a function of the leg. I suppose your leg has the capacity to just travel wherever it wishes, dragging the rest of you reluctantly along.

Is the ability to move from place to place a function of your penissss?. . .

If self awareness is a function of the brain then why havent we been able to decipher any distinct difference with the brains of mad people, sociopaths? why is their brain circuitry no different from that of you and me?

I repeat self awareness is a function of the brain. . .What the hell are you saying, you mean to say that the brain of the psychopaths doesn't have any difference with that of a normal person?. . .That is a very big LIE. . .


Psychopaths aren't just mentally different - their brains are physically deformed to prevent them feeling fear or guilt. Brains of psychopaths have 'broken links' between parts responsible for empathy and guilt.

American researchers took a magnetic-resonance imaging scanner to a medium security prison in Wisconsin, and scanned the brains of 40 prisoners in a doing time for similar offences, half of whom had been diagnosed with psychopathy. Results of the study revealed both structural and functional abnormalities in the brains of the psychopaths, with scientists finding there was less communication between two key areas of their brains than the other prisoners.
The first of these structures, known as the ventromedial prefrontal cortex, is responsible for emotions including empathy and guilt.
The second, called the amygdala, controls levels of fear and anxiety.
It is thought the lack of communication between these two areas makes it difficult for psychopaths to regulate their social and emotional behaviour.
Study author Professor Michael Koenigs, from the University of Wisconsin-Madison said the two structures 'seemed not to be communicating as they should.'
There was evidence not only of physical diffferences in white matter, but of electrical activity in the areas connecting the two.

Professor Koenigs, whose findings were published in the Journal of Neuroscience added: 'This is the first study to show both structural and functional differences in the brains of people diagnosed with psychopathy.'
'The decision-making study showed indirectly what this study shows directly - that there is a specific brain abnormality associated with criminal psychopathy.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2065161/Psychopaths-arent-just-mentally-different--brains-physically-deformed-prevent-feeling-fear-guilt.html#ixzz2H5lNJOU9

More. .

Schizophrenia changes brain structure: A Review of Studies of Individuals with Schizophrenia Never Treated with Antipsychotic Medications

http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/medical/brain-change-schizophrenia.html

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. . .Your mental state can NOT be separated with the state of your brain. . .

Sigh... how long are you going to recycle this tired canard?

i explained very clearly earlier on - the brain is merely the physical outlet for a non-physical soul. That is... the soul cannot interact with the physical world without the help of the brain... but the brain by itself is just as useless as a lump of flesh...

And I said this immaterial soul is affected by material things like drugs and oxygen starvation etc?. . .What happens to the soul of a person whose brain was damaged and lost everything or whose behaviour was completely altered and changed as a result of the brain damage?. . .So a damaged or alteration to the brain causes damaged or alteration to the immaterial soul, eh?. . .If the brain is a useless lump of flesh then why does any damage to the brain affect you completely, why those a damage to the brain have the ability of completely altering your behaviour for example?

If all it takes to generate thought in the brain is a chain of chemical reactions then why are we unable to create a thought in the lab? You have simply glided over that question with the "i dont know" excuse. YET you keep telling us that your "claim" has been shown scientifically even though you provide no evidence for that whatsoever.

You question is very daft and invalid. . .thoughts can not be produced in the labs because brains can not also be produced in the lab. . .The chemical reactions that take place in the brain can not be produced in the lab for obvious reasons. . .Its a scientific fact that thoughts are a set of chemical reactions in the brain.

davidylan:

Which is the same thing as saying the ability to travel from place to place is a function of the leg. I suppose your leg has the capacity to just travel wherever it wishes, dragging the rest of you reluctantly along.

If self awareness is a function of the brain then why havent we been able to decipher any distinct difference with the brains of mad people, sociopaths? why is their brain circuitry no different from that of you and me?



Sigh... how long are you going to recycle this tired canard?

i explained very clearly earlier on - the brain is merely the physical outlet for a non-physical soul. That is... the soul cannot interact with the physical world without the help of the brain... but the brain by itself is just as useless as a lump of flesh...

If all it takes to generate thought in the brain is a chain of chemical reactions then why are we unable to create a thought in the lab? You have simply glided over that question with the "i dont know" excuse. YET you keep telling us that your "claim" has been shown scientifically even though you provide no evidence for that whatsoever.

Actually "thought" can be created in a lab- it's called AI - cpu- based systems do that all the time, making decisions based of inputs received.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9489002/How-long-before-robots-can-think-like-us.html

Of course, the human brain is much much much more sophisticated and capable that the smartest man-made computing system, so much so that it's an insult to the brain to do the comparo.

It's sad that Christians would reduce one of God's marvel to "useless lump of flesh", all in a bid to prove a non-existent undying being lurking beneath man. You'd think atheists would be the ones doing that. The human brain is an incredibly designed wonder - and it's the source of thoughts, feelings. That much is clear from what happens to brain damaged people. The undying soul theory is not from the Bible.

TroGunn:

Actually "thought" can be created in a lab- it's called AI - cpu- based systems do that all the time, making decisions based of inputs received.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9489002/How-long-before-robots-can-think-like-us.html

Of course, the human brain is much much much more sophisticated and capable that the smartest man-made computing system, so much so that it's an insult to the brain to do the comparo.

It's sad that Christians would reduce one of God's marvel to "useless lump of flesh", all in a bid to prove a non-existent undying being lurking beneath man. You'd think atheists would be the ones doing that. The human brain is an incredibly designed wonder - and it's the source of thoughts, feelings. That much is clear from what happens to brain damaged people. The undying soul theory is not from the Bible.

No, no, no. Thoughts are magical. I mean you can have thoughts without a heart, or just about any organ, but you can't have any without a brain. Why is that?

wiegraf:

No, no, no. Thoughts are magical. I mean you can have thoughts without a heart, or just about any organ, but you can't have any without a brain. Why is that?

That's a question for Anony and co.

My belief is that man is a soul and as such soul dies when man dies. The bible affirms this. Thoughts, desires, feelings are obviously from the brain, not from an "undying soul" that flies away.

mazaje:

Why not unicellular organism, they are also alive and posses all the living characteristics of animals. . .So mosquitoes, rats, butterflies, goats, termites, pigs. . .etc all have souls?. . .

Asked and answered

Self awareness is a function of the brain. . .

Is there a part of the brain that we can remove that will make a person lose his self awareness?

Thoughts are indeed a chain of chemical reaction in the brain it has been shown scientifically, There is a set of chain reactions that take place in your brain when you think about something. . .If your brain malfunctions and the reactions can't take place you won't be able to think at all. . .That is why brain injuries result in the inability to think. . . .Self awareness is a function of the brain. It is the brain that makes you self aware and without it you won't be self aware. . .

Please stop stating as fact something you don't know to be fact. Your argument is similar to saying that a Oliver Twist is a function of ink and paper because without ink and paper there'll be no Oliver Twist story.

TroGunn:

Actually "thought" can be created in a lab- it's called AI - cpu- based systems do that all the time, making decisions based of inputs received.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/9489002/How-long-before-robots-can-think-like-us.html

Of course, the human brain is much much much more sophisticated and capable that the smartest man-made computing system, so much so that it's an insult to the brain to do the comparo.

It's sad that Christians would reduce one of God's marvel to "useless lump of flesh", all in a bid to prove a non-existent undying being lurking beneath man. You'd think atheists would be the ones doing that. The human brain is an incredibly designed wonder - and it's the source of thoughts, feelings. That much is clear from what happens to brain damaged people. The undying soul theory is not from the Bible.

Really? There is a reason why it is called Artificial Intelligence. There is a difference between thought and reading symbols. If you show me a self-aware robot with subjective opinions, then you might just have a point.

Mr_Anony:
Really? There is a reason why it is called Artificial Intelligence. There is a difference between thought and reading symbols. If you show me a self-aware robot with subjective opinions, then you might just have a point.

It's why the human brain is a marvel and as I pointed out, it's far superior to man-made processors.

It is said that "of all the objects in the universe, the human brain is the most complex. There are as many neurons in the brain as there are stars in the Milky Way galaxy."

The bible ascribes thoughts, desires and feelings to mortal man (known now to be controlled from the brain)

James 1:14, 15 - "Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death".

And such thoughts, desires, feelings die with the man- nothing escapes to continue living as the person.

Eccl 9:5-6,10 -- "For the living know that they will die,but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun". "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom"

TroGunn:

It's why the human brain is a marvel and as I pointed out, it's far superior to man-made processors.

It is said that "of all the objects in the universe, the human brain is the most complex. There are as many neurons in the brain as there are stars in the Milky Way galaxy."

The bible ascribes thoughts, desires and feelings to mortal man (known now to be controlled from the brain)

James 1:14, 15 - "Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death".

And such thoughts, desires feelings die with the man- nothing escapes to continue living as the person.

Eccl 9:5-6,10 -- "For the living know that they will die,but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun". "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom"

Good, so your point was false. Thoughts cannot be created in the lab and robots can't think.