proo212: @Mr Striklymii, this is another one from today, not suicide bombing but close.

Good morning Mr. Proo,

My heart bleeds Whenever such acts of violence occur. As I join the family and well meaning Nigerians to pray for the souls of the departed, I also hope and pray that these individuals who perpetrate such acts of violence would turn from their ways and realize that non-aggravated assault is evil and should be stopped.

I am indeed sad that the government is still unable to proect it's citizens and put the situation under control.


May God have mercy on us all!

Good day mr Striktlymi

it may interest you to know that Allah in his wisdom and mercy prescribed suicide for non muslims like you and i.

Thank you!

Paris_Love: Good day mr Striktlymi

it may interest you to know that Allah in his wisdom and mercy prescribed suicide for non muslims like you and i.

Thank you!

Good morning Paris,

Thank you for your contribution! Please does your comment represent your personal views on the matter or do you have any back up from the Quran?


Thank you!

striktlymi:

Good morning Paris,

Thank you for your contribution! Please does your comment represent your personal views on the matter or do you have any back up from the Quran?


Thank you!

Thanks for replying. And no my comment is not my personal view but rather from the Quran.

Paris_Love:

Thanks for replying. And no my comment is not my personal view but rather from the Quran.

The relevant quote(s) will be highly appreciated.


Thanks!

striktlymi:

The relevant quote(s) will be highly appreciated.


Thanks!

Lol. You are the non muslim with 'islamic logic', i expect you to know those verses where Allah told those that doubted him and the self declared prophet to go hang themselves.

That's permitting suicide right?

Paris_Love:
Lol. You are the non muslim with 'islamic logic', i expect you to know those verses where Allah told those that doubted him and the self declared prophet to go hang themselves.

That's permitting suicide right?

Good morning again Paris,

I didn't realize that there is any such thing as "Christian logic", "Islamic logic" or "Aheist logic". Anyways, logic is pure and has no religious undertone. If a logic does not make much sense it is called "Fallacy". If you have an issue with the analysis I have drawn in my previous posts to make you think I applied what in your view is "Islamic logic" I will appreciate it if you would point this out.

I guess you might be having a hard time getting the much needed quotes and in any case I did not claim to be a guru in the quran. You made a claim and quite frankly, if that claim is to be considered serious then there should be a basis for it.

Though this thread is expected to look at suicide from the perspective of whether or not the Quran prescribes this for Muslems, hence the suicide bombings, but if you have a different perspective to this then I will be glad to hear it with relevant quotes.


Thank you!

striktlymi:

Good morning again Paris,

I didn't realize that there is any such thing as "Christian logic", "Islamic logic" or "Aheist logic". Anyways, logic is pure and has no religious undertone. If a logic does not make much sense it is called "Fallacy". If you have an issue with the analysis I have drawn in my previous posts to make you think I applied what in your view is "Islamic logic" I will appreciate it if you would point this out.

I guess you might be having a hard time getting the much needed quotes and in any case I did not claim to be a guru in the quran. You made a claim and quite frankly, if that claim is to be considered serious then there should be a basis for it.

You guessed wrong.

Though this thread is expected to look at suicide from the perspective of whether or not the Quran prescribes this for Muslems, hence the suicide bombings, but if you have a different perspective to this then I will be glad to hear it with relevant quotes.


Thank you!

A different perspective? Maybe.

[img]http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/Ayat/22/22_15.gif[/img]

15. Man k a na ya th unnu an lan yan s urahu All a hu fee a l dduny a wa a l- a khirati falyamdud bisababin il a a l ssam a -i thumma liyaq t aAA falyan th ur hal yu th hibanna kayduhu m a yaghee th u

If there is anyone who deludes himself that Allah will not give to his prophet victory in this world and in the Hereafter, let him tie a rope tothe ceiling of his house and hang himself; and then let him see whether his self castigation alters that towards which he is so full of envy. -even to the slightest extent! http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/surah22.htm

Now that's interesting.

Paris_Love: You guessed wrong.

A different perspective? Maybe.

[img]http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/Ayat/22/22_15.gif[/img]

15. Man k a na ya th unnu an lan yan s urahu All a hu fee a l dduny a wa a l- a khirati falyamdud bisababin il a a l ssam a -i thumma liyaq t aAA falyan th ur hal yu th hibanna kayduhu m a yaghee th u

If there is anyone who deludes himself that Allah will not give to his prophet victory in this world and in the Hereafter, let him tie a rope tothe ceiling of his house and hang himself; and then let him see whether his self castigation alters that towards which he is so full of envy. -even to the slightest extent! http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/surah22.htm

Now that's interesting.

I've been expecting you for a long time to come and derail the thread. Welcome!

Paris_Love: You guessed wrong.

A different perspective? Maybe.

[img]http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/Ayat/22/22_15.gif[/img]

15. Man k a na ya th unnu an lan yan s urahu All a hu fee a l dduny a wa a l- a khirati falyamdud bisababin il a a l ssam a -i thumma liyaq t aAA falyan th ur hal yu th hibanna kayduhu m a yaghee th u

If there is anyone who deludes himself that Allah will not give to his prophet victory in this world and in the Hereafter, let him tie a rope tothe ceiling of his house and hang himself; and then let him see whether his self castigation alters that towards which he is so full of envy. -even to the slightest extent! http://quran.worldofislam.info/Quran/Quran/surah22.htm

Now that's interesting.

Good evening Paris,

Well like I maintain, I am not here to defend Islam but really the part of the Quran you quoted can be interpreted in different ways. One can decide to take it literally but I am of the opinion that there is a message the prophet tried to pass across other than 'suicide for non-muslims'. I have my own interpretation of what the prophet meant but I will leave this for the Islamic scholars to handle.


Thank you!

Wow...

That must be worst translation of a Quranic ayah ever!

Ceiling of his house? Wow!
. The next part of the ayah does not suggest suicide

From Yusuf Ali:

Then let him see whether his plan removes what enrages him.

What removes his anger? Certainly not talking about a dead person.
Rewind now... the keyword here is samaa which means all that is above. Often translated as skies or heavens. In this ayah, some translate as ceiling but sky or heaven is more appropriate.The interpretation I favour is from aldurr al manthur from ibn zaid and maariful quran by maulana mufti Muhammad shafi. Imam qurtubi also thinks this is the best interpretation.

It means that the enemies of Islam who put hurdles in its path and desired that Allah should abandon the prophet and His religion must clearly understand that this can only happen when, he is deprived ofprophethood..

Anyone wanting to stop the mission of the prophet or the sequence of revelation will have to go up to the sky and cut off the chain of revelation. Since that is impossible, no amount of fury can do any harm to Islam.

There are those who interpret it as: people who have hostile feelings towards Islam and the prophet must realise that they do them no harm. Hence the best thing is to hang themselves out of sheer mortification. (Mazhari and others )

The ayah is for those with a hatred for Islam.

And Allah knows best

Well a dead person feels no anger. The verse is self explanatory. Go hang yourself let's see if it stops Muhammad. It's as simple as that. If you fail to see this then it pretty much boils down to ignorance or intellectual dishonesty. Either way it still permits suicide.

022.015
YUSUFALI: If any think that Allah will not help him (His Messenger) in this world and the Hereafter, let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut (himself) off: then let him see whether his plan will remove that which enrages (him)!
PICKTHAL: Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself. Then let him see whether his strategy dispelleth that whereat he rageth!.
SHAKIR: Whoever thinks that Allah will not assist him in this life and the hereafter, let him stretch a rope to the ceiling, then let him cut (it) off, then let him see if his struggle will take away that at which he is enraged.
Dawood: If anyone thinks that God will not give victory to His apostle in this world and in the world to come, let him tie a rope to the ceiling of his house
and hang himself. Then let him see if his device has done away with that which has enraged him.

I think we know the translations that makes sense the most out the four above.

striktlymi:

Good evening Paris,

Well like I maintain, I am not here to defend Islam but really the part of the Quran you quoted can be interpreted in different ways. One can decide to take it literally but I am of the opinion that there is a message the prophet tried to pass across other than 'suicide for non-muslims'. I have my own interpretation of what the prophet meant but I will leave this for the Islamic scholars to handle.


Thank you!

Yea right

Geewan:

I've been expecting you for a long time to come and derail the thread. Welcome!

Thanks, i'll take that as compliment. Apologies if it derailed your thread.

Am out

"parislove I am pretty sure, you do not know the arabic language so i wonder who is being intellectually dishonest. I have given you the opinions that exist from far more knowledgeable people.

There are other more comprehensive reasons why i favour the opinion i do, it is supported by other Quranic ayat. A person who translates samaa as ceiling already betrays the opinion they favour... Either way, I made the two positions clear enough.

Salam

this is one of those threads on Nairaland that you pray and hope no one of shallow mindedness comes and derails and it seems a couple of ppl are bent on doing that and it will serve the forum well to just ignore those people
@ Op,nice topic and do feel sorry for your loss
at contributors with meaningful insight,keep it coming and at the 2 fools who have nothing better todo but to cast aspersions left and right,get a grip

Wow, I am so impressed going through this thread. Not because of the topic (I don't care whether islam permits suicide or not). But I am impressed by the courtesy and respect the posters have shown each other whilst expressing their views. I wish all threads could be like this

No.

the question should be, please who can define suicide. Because if you know the meaning of suicide you wouldn't be asking,you would have figured out the answer.

salam tunji where ever u are on this planet may Allah s.w.t give u all gud things on earth n d day after may u b blessed with d best job in d world.amin 4givn such wonderful anwers to ds forum

bros i'm sorry 4 ur loss but d anwser is no

striktlymi: Good morning everyone,

I opened this thread in the forum for other religious sect given that I am a Christian and partly because it was stated that this forum is Muslims. Since I cannot find the answers I seek from those who are not Muslims, I decided to bring it here with the hope of getting the answers I seek.

This thread is not guided by hate but a strong desire to know and understand. Please I ask everyone who wants to post to lighten up on the insults.

My Uncle was killed by a suicide bomber from Bokoharam some months back and we just celebrated his funeral. Though I do not hold a grudge against every muslim cause I believe we have some very good muslims out there who I dare say are better than some Christians.

But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed.

So my question again is: Does the quran support Suicide? Quotes from the quran will be appreciated.

Thank you!

yes Islam permits suicide bombings in fighting for Islam
It depends on the school of thought and the aim
Don't be deceived by the lying sweet tongues
[size=18pt]
Please listen to a renowned Islamic scholar teach on that topic[/size]
It is a strategy of war and it has to be guided by a teacher
This is a short clip that answers the question you ask
Remember that Islam depends on the Koran and the Sunnah ( the teachings and lifestyle of the prophet) so while you may not find a verse that say go ye and suicide bomb but in fighting for the course of Islam,any means could be employed including suicide,according to these schools of thought that favor suicide bombings
There is never a straight yes and no answer in Islam my brother
It all depends.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtZxNqxpb8s
Not my words

babyosisi:


yes Islam permits suicide bombings in fighting for Islam
It depends on the school of thought and the aim
Don't be deceived
[size=18pt]
Please listen to a renowned Islamic scholar teach on that topic[/size]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtZxNqxpb8s
Not my words

Good evenng sir,

I don't think it's about deceit. If you are of the opinion that Islam permits it's faithfuls to commit suicide, then I will appreciate it if you would quote the relevant passage of the Quran.

I have read various arguments for and against. For now those who believe the Quran is not in support of Suicide have had the better argument so far with evidence from the Quran.

So sir, if you are certain that the Quran encourages it's members to commit suicide, I will be most grateful if you would support your claims with the Quran. I will go through the video you posted when I am with my laptop but for the benefit of those who do not have laptops I will suggest you help with the quotes from the Quran.


Thank you!

maclatunji: ^Obviously, you love violence and are desperate to paint Islam black. A person may die without being killed for a cause, people have died climbing mountains, running marathons, from overcrowding at a football match etc. Are these deaths suicide? Sorry, try again later.

hmm hmm. That's exactly what the followers of Mohammed has turned Islam to be. Or let me say what some followers of Muhammad have painted Islam to portray. There's a page on facebook titled 'I hate Islam'. Someone posted an anti Islam pixs. Guess what? A Muslim fanatic openly said if the poster has the guts, let him reveal himself, that if he did, he was going to murder him. This is on Facebook. Search for the page, 'i hate islam' Many of such examples abound.

Right here on NL, i expressed myself and one stupid fanatical Muslim threatened me. I just laughed(Knowing his 1,000,000,000 self plus others can do no shitz)

Its simply what muslims want us to believe about Islam. simple.

striktlymi:

Good evenng sir,

I don't think it's about deceit. If you are of the opinion that Islam permits it's faithfuls to commit suicide, then I will appreciate it if you would quote the relevant passage of the Quran.

I have read various arguments for and against. For now those who believe the Quran is not in support of Suicide have had the better argument so far with evidence from the Quran.

So sir, if you are certain that the Quran encourages it's members to commit suicide, I will be most grateful if you would support your claims with the Quran. I will go through the video you posted when I am with my laptop but for the benefit of those who do not have laptops I will suggest you help with the quotes from the Quran.


Thank you!

I added to my post,please see it,
The Koran does not tell Muslims to go to Mecca either but they do
The lifestyle and teachings of Mohammed as recorded in the hadiths are just as important as the Koran in Islam
Did you watch the clip?
See if any Muslim here will dispute what Naik Zakir just said

If Islam did not permit suicide bombing under some circumstances,the answer will be a Resounding No from the imam above
If you asked the same question of a Christian,the answer will be NO
But Zakir could not say no and stop it that
Why?
Do not be deceived dear.

MOD I WANT TO POST FROM THE NET, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT PLS HIDE IT DONT BAN ME, ITS JUST A COPY FROM NET OR PM ME I WILL REMOVE IT. ITS FROM ISLAM WATCH.

babyosisi:

I added to my post,please see it,
The Koran does not tell Muslims to go to Mecca either but they do
The lifestyle and teachings of Mohammed as recorded in the hadiths are just as important as the Koran in Islam
Did you watch the clip?
See if any Muslim here will dispute what Naik Zakir just said

BabyOsisi must you lie? The Qur'an doesn't require Muslims who are capable to perform Hajj? Tell me something new.

maclatunji:

BabyOsisi must you lie? The Qur'an doesn't require Muslims who are capable to perform Hajj? Tell me something new.

Please let us stick to the bombing topic and save that one for another day
Is imam Zakir lying in that clip above?
Yes or no
Has he misrepresented Islam in that topic?

babyosisi:

I added to my post,please see it,
The Koran does not tell Muslims to go to Mecca either but they do
The lifestyle and teachings of Mohammed as recorded in the hadiths are just as important as the Koran in Islam
Did you watch the clip?
See if any Muslim here will dispute what Naik Zakir just said

First of all, It is called Qur'an

Are you kidding me?? The Quran does not ask muslims to go to mecca

Is today just a bad day or is this how you go around spreading ignorance on the threads you visit? I have seen some of your posts today on an unrelated thread.