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Does The Quran Permit Suicide? - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 6:23am On Jan 01, 2013
Good morning everyone,

I opened this thread in the forum for other religious sect given that I am a Christian and partly because it was stated that this forum is Muslims. Since I cannot find the answers I seek from those who are not Muslims, I decided to bring it here with the hope of getting the answers I seek.

This thread is not guided by hate but a strong desire to know and understand. Please I ask everyone who wants to post to lighten up on the insults.

My Uncle was killed by a suicide bomber from Bokoharam some months back and we just celebrated his funeral. Though I do not hold a grudge against every muslim cause I believe we have some very good muslims out there who I dare say are better than some Christians.

But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed.

So my question again is: Does the quran support Suicide? Quotes from the quran will be appreciated.

Thank you!

4 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by maclatunji: 6:35am On Jan 01, 2013
^Sorry about your loss and this thread is very on point. The answer to your question is no. Wait for detailed explanations, they may not necessarily come from me though.
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 6:59am On Jan 01, 2013
maclatunji: ^Sorry about your loss and this thread is very on point. The answer to your question is no. Wait for detailed explanations, they may not necessarily come from me though.

Good morning Tunji,

Thank you very much for your concern!
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by maclatunji: 7:21am On Jan 01, 2013
I am currently mobile but please click on these links and read extensively on the topic.

http://muttaqun.com/suicide.html

http://www.questionsonislam.com/question/suicide-allowed-some-situations

The second link talks about suicide within other contexts.

Some people have sought to justify suicide bombings under the context of inflicting strategic damage on the enemy in a war or resistance between an Islamic/Muslim state and another country. Palestine comes to mind in this regard.

I find this untenable. However, it is important to note that even these people do not condone individuals taking such actions like Boko Haram. They believe it is only a government that can order its units within its military (not militia or proxies) for such missions if it feels that it will gain strategic advantage in a war by doing so.

I don't support this position, I believe a soldier may be involved in highly risky operations that seem like certain death. However, if your dying is as a result of your own hands (action), you have directly contravened this Quranic verse:

Holy Quran Chapter 4 Surah
Nisaa verses 29-30:

29) O ye who believe! eat not up your property
among yourselves in vanities: but let there be
amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-
will: nor kill yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful.

30) If any do that in rancor and injustice soon
shall We cast them into the fire: and easy it is
for Allah.

37 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by tbaba1234: 7:34am On Jan 01, 2013
I am really sorry about your loss....

Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancor and injustice, soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. Chapter 4 Verse 29 - 30

Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445)

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:"And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection. (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73)

One of the greatest scholars of this century, from Saudi Arabia

"...So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into the Hellfire, and Allah's refuge is sought; and that this person is not a shahid (martyr)..."

- Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al-'Uthaymeen, Saudi Arabia

29 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by hisblud(m): 7:51am On Jan 01, 2013
Tho am not a muslim but 13volt stated this and it made me say wow
Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancor andinjustice, soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. Chapter 4 Verse 29 - 30
Narrated Jundab the Prophet said,"A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445)
Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:"And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection. (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73)
The condemnation Islam has towards suicide is so grave that it would be unthinkable for its followers to regard sex or VIRGINS as a reward if they were to take their lives.
and that is why i feel somethings are hidden from the would be suicide bombers. Heard from someone that apart from sending troops as an immediate response, the govt information management could organise documentary of how arab countries are using western education to impove their lives and like dubia instead of killing and scarying away "infidels", they are inviting them and allowing the two to co-exist. But this should be done wit sincerity tho showing evidences of real ways at impacting the life of people on the street. And definately, would be suicide bombers might consider.

2 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 8:23am On Jan 01, 2013
maclatunji: I am currently mobile but please click on these links and read extensively on the topic.

http://muttaqun.com/suicide.html

http://www.questionsonislam.com/question/suicide-allowed-some-situations.

Good morning again Tunji,

I read through both arguments in the links you provided and from what I read, I am convinced that Islam is against all forms of suicide.

The first argument was very thorough, delving into various forms of suicide and even Euthansia. I was particularly glad that the author used the quran as the basis for his arguments. It would be impossible for any open and unbiased mind to fault his argument.

The second author, though is of the opinion that suicide is condemned by the quran but he believes that some form of suicide can be allowed. This argument might seem appealing but I wasn't convinced because he failed to back this position with the quran. Instead he relied on philosophy to drive home his point. His opinion that suicide is permissible when someone is forced into it is not readily convincing for me because the quran stated clearly that even if you suffer some unbearable wound, (which can be an excuse for forced suicide) suicide is still not permissible.

However, I noted that "intent" is a very important concept in Islam. And the intent of a suicide bomber might just be his or her escape route from hell. I am of the opinion that if the suicide bomber who killed my Uncle did it out of a sincerity of heart and is ignorant of the provisions in the quran about suicide then that individual can make heaven if he lead a good life before the bombing.

Thank you once again Tunji, cause now I know that my Uncle's death was not brought about by the teachings of the quran. I pray for the soul of my Uncle and the person who murdered him and hope that both of them make heaven.


Thank you!

14 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 8:26am On Jan 01, 2013
tbaba1234: I am really sorry about your loss....

Good morning tbaba,

Thank you very much for your concern and the quotes you provided to back up your point.
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by maclatunji: 8:27am On Jan 01, 2013
@hisblud, it is simple logic- if suicide bombing Is so "great and grand", why isn't the leader the first to go? The truth is our government is sleeping, if a country that is Muslim and poor like Mauritania can curb terrorists, Nigeria has no business being in this Boko Haram mess.

It is a manifestation of weak leadership which is very annoying.

7 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by CrazyMan(m): 9:05am On Jan 01, 2013
maclatunji: Holy Quran Chapter 4 Surah
Nisaa verses 29-30:

29) O ye who believe! eat not up your property
among yourselves in vanities: but let there be
amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-
will: nor kill yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful.

30) If any do that in rancor and injustice soon
shall We cast them into the fire: and easy it is
for Allah.
So how about the ones that kill themselves and others for virgins...shouldn't that be considered as suicide and murder?

If the koran is against suicide like the verse you posted, then shouldn't jihad advocates be seen as murderers...and shouldn't Allah also cast them into the fire?

I also need a little explanation on this cos I seem to be lost.

2 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by tbaba1234: 9:31am On Jan 01, 2013
CrazyMan:
So how about the ones that kill themselves and others for virgins...shouldn't that be considered as suicide and murder?

If the koran is against suicide like the verse you posted, then shouldn't jihad advocates be seen as murderers...and shouldn't Allah also cast them into the fire?

I also need a little explanation on this cos I seem to be lost.

There are a number of things to clear here:

1. People who kill themselves have committed a huge sin that could earn them the fire... suicide is forbidden. People try to go round the rules looking for justification to push their agenda, but it is clear from the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him)

Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancor and injustice, soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. Chapter 4 Verse 29 - 30

Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445)

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:"And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection. (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73)

2. The issue of '72 virgins' is not taken seriously by muslims. It come from a narration that is considered weak or fabricated with no chain of narration. Inspite of this, It has become popular amongst non-muslims who use it as a weapon to attack Islam.

3. Jihad means to struggle against an opposing force. It does not necessarily have to be physical. To work really hard to pass an exam is a jihad, To fight against injustice with or without arms is a Jihad. It is a very broad term and should not be restricted to armed conflict.

11 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by Jezuspoa: 1:30pm On Jan 01, 2013
striktlymi: Good morning everyone,

I opened this thread in the forum for other religious sect given that I am a Christian and partly because it was stated that this forum is Muslims. Since I cannot find the answers I seek from those who are not Muslims, I decided to bring it here with the hope of getting the answers I seek.

This thread is not guided by hate but a strong desire to know and understand. Please I ask everyone who wants to post to lighten up on the insults.

My Uncle was killed by a suicide bomber from Bokoharam some months back and we just celebrated his funeral. Though I do not hold a grudge against every muslim cause I believe we have some very good muslims out there who I dare say are better than some Christians.

But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed.

So my question again is: Does the quran support Suicide? Quotes from the quran will be appreciated.

Thank you!
sorry about your loss! But what are you doing here in NL? I tot i told you to go and read your book for your JAMB! Oya start running! Run now before i flog you with cane
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by BetaThings: 1:42pm On Jan 01, 2013
CrazyMan:
So how about the ones that kill themselves and others for virgins...shouldn't that be considered as suicide and murder?

If the koran is against suicide like the verse you posted, then shouldn't jihad advocates be seen as murderers...and shouldn't Allah also cast them into the fire?

I also need a little explanation on this cos I seem to be lost.
Tbaba has explained that jihad is a broad term. Struggling to curtail desire for something sinful - embezzlement, adultery, etc - is jihad

This issue of virgin was first mentioned to me by a non-muslim. Yet I was born into Islam. And most people who converted from Islam know very well that it is not an issue that is typically taught in Islamic schools.
There are far numerous things to fear about hellfire that virtually everyone wants to avoid it
There are a lot of things that are so attractive about paradise (Jannah), without virgins being mentioned, that everyone wants to go there

Now what about killing people? This is jihad too but it is something that no one would fault when properly done
A muslim, christian, atheist country has the right to defend itself against invasion
If Saudi Arabia is attacked today, its citizens who go out to fight the aggressor are fighting jihad. No one can fault this
We note that in this process, there is a leader whose authority the people recognise and who will instruct people to fight

As for Boko Haram
Is Shekau the leader of muslims in Nigeria? NO. He is not even consulted on matters of Islamic holidays
Infact, were Nigeria a muslim country all the JTF members fighting Boko Haram would be the one actually doing jihad

11 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by BetaThings: 1:53pm On Jan 01, 2013
striktlymi:

However, I noted that "intent" is a very important concept in Islam. And the intent of a suicide bomber might just be his or her escape route from hell. I am of the opinion that if the suicide bomber who killed my Uncle did it out of a sincerity of heart and is ignorant of the provisions in the quran about suicide then that individual can make heaven if he lead a good life before the bombing.

Thank you once again Tunji, cause now I know that my Uncle's death was not brought about by the teachings of the quran. I pray for the soul of my Uncle and the person who murdered him and hope that both of them make heaven.

Thank you!
I am deeply sorry that your uncle died in the hands of people who are reckless and lack guidance
As regards intention, it is not always an excuse. Acts with which the pleasure of Allah is sought should be based on established principles
So whoever who wants Allah to be pleased with him cannot just do whatever he likes because of sincere intention
Some people who out of sincere intention decided to fast everyday and pray all night were denounced by the Prophet (PBUH)
And we know that praying and fasting are not contentious issues

It part of sincere intention to seek proper guidance. Suicide bombing and killing people are serious matters
Rushing into it without proper knowledge is reckless. We are not talking about an emergency that does not allow you time to gather information
We seek knowledge to practice Islam. We cannot just act on instinct!
But to just go out and bomb places of worship, killing innocent people including children and now assume that a claim of sincere intention will suffice is very reckless in my opinion

But Allah knows best

2 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 2:54pm On Jan 01, 2013
BetaThings:
I am deeply sorry that your uncle died in the hands of people who are reckless and lack guidance
As regards intention, it is not always an excuse. Acts with which the pleasure of Allah is sought should be based on established principles
So whoever who wants Allah to be pleased with him cannot just do whatever he likes because of sincere intention
Some people who out of sincere intention decided to fast everyday and pray all night were denounced by the Prophet (PBUH)
And we know that praying and fasting are not contentious issues

It part of sincere intention to seek proper guidance. Suicide bombing and killing people are serious matters
Rushing into it without proper knowledge is reckless. We are not talking about an emergency that does not allow you time to gather information
We seek knowledge to practice Islam. We cannot just act on instinct!
But to just go out and bomb places of worship, killing innocent people including children and now assume that a claim of sincere intention will suffice is very reckless in my opinion

But Allah knows best

Good afternoon sir,

Thank you for your concern. I understand the points you raised but like you said only Allah knows best.

Thank you!
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by proo212(m): 3:38am On Jan 02, 2013
Please tell me that those suicide bombers died in vain. I thought they died in the cause of Allah. Is dying in Allah's cause not martyrdom Of course suicide is forbidden in Islam but if you note, the suicide bomber did not go out just to kill himself. His intention was to kill others (infidels or kuffar) in Allah's cause and this is permitted if he dies in the process because his/her reward is paradise, virgins and intercession on behalf of family members. This is why these guys are celebrated.

For this reason he will get his reward according to the Quran and hadiths e.g

Qur'an:3:156 "If you are slain, or die, in Allah's Cause [as a martyr], pardon from Allah and mercy are far better than all they could amass

Bukhari: V5B59N377 "A man came to the Prophet and said, 'Can you tell me where I will go if I get martyred?' The Prophet replied, 'To Paradise.' The man fought till he was martyred."

Muslim:51B20N4706 "Allah's Messenger said: 'Whom do you consider to be a martyr among you?' The Companions said: 'One who is slain in Allah's Cause is a martyr.' He said: 'Then (if this is the definition of a martyr) the martyrs of my Umma [Islamic community] will be small in number.' They asked: 'Prophet, who are martyrs then?' He said: 'One who is slain in Allah's Cause is a martyr; one who dies in the Way of Allah is a martyr; one who dies of plague is a martyr; one who dies of cholera is a martyr.'"


Hazrat Abu Darda (رضي الله عنه) narrates that, "I heard the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) saying that the Shaheed will intercede on behalf of 70 members of his family." (Abu Dawood; At Targheeb wat-Tarheeb)

1 Like

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by maclatunji: 7:04am On Jan 02, 2013
^Obviously, you love violence and are desperate to paint Islam black. A person may die without being killed for a cause, people have died climbing mountains, running marathons, from overcrowding at a football match etc. Are these deaths suicide? Sorry, try again later.

3 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 7:15am On Jan 02, 2013
Good morning Mr. Proo,

I am not here to speak for Islam neither do I claim to know the quran. All I will apply here are intuitive knowledge.

I believe you are a Christian and I decipher from your post that you are quite angry. I do understand your anger and frankly when my Uncle was killed I was very angry and looked for whom to blame. But is this the Christian spirit?

I felt the need to say my bit because I opened the thread and I don't want it to become a "battle ground" for all. I welcome any constructive argument both for and against.

But when I went through the quotes you put forward, I was quick to note that those quotes did not in any way support suicide. The quran was quite explicit about those it regards as martyrs and one key ingredient is being killed by someone or something else in the cause of Allah.




Qur'an:3:156 "If you are slain, or die, in Allah's Cause [as a martyr], pardon from Allah and mercy are far better than all they could amass

* The bolded implies that someone has to do it not the individual killing him or herself.



Bukhari: V5B59N377"A man came to the Prophet and said, 'Can you tell me where I will go if I get martyred?' The Prophet replied, 'To Paradise.' The man fought till he was martyred."

* The bolded still implies same. For the second bit, the prophet said the man fought till he was killed not that the man went to kill himself.



Muslim:51B20N4706"Allah's Messenger said: 'Whom do you consider to be a martyr among you?' The Companions said: 'One who is slain in Allah's Cause is a martyr.' He said: 'Then (if this is the definition of a martyr) the martyrs of my Umma [Islamic community] will be small in number.' They asked: 'Prophet, who are martyrs then?' He said: 'One who is slain in Allah's Cause is a martyr; one who dies in the Way of Allah is a martyr; one who dies of plague is a martyr; one who dies of cholera is a martyr.'"

* The bolded actually strengthens the case of Islam. When one is stricken by a plague or Cholera which was incurable at the time, the need to commit suicide would be high but the prophet made them understand that allowing the process take its toll till you die for the sake of Allah without giving yourself to the temptation of suicide is heroic and as such implies martyrdom. This also can make a case for Jihad. From this I believe Jihad is not just about fighting humans. If you fight an internal struggle then you can be said to have fought bravely for the cause of Allah if and only if you do so for him.

It is quite clear too in our every day lives. If for instance you happen to kill a renowned criminal in cold blood, everyone in the society will be happy but the law will not find this funny. You will indeed be prosecuted as charged. So the fact that some Muslims are happy and the actions of the suicide bomber seem to be noble to him does not free that person from the judgement of Allah.

Thank you!

20 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by tbaba1234: 7:20am On Jan 02, 2013
^ I could not have put it better.... Salam (peace)

1 Like

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by bigmanahmad: 1:42pm On Jan 02, 2013
WOW...I COULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN ANY BETA WAY...THANK YOU FOR YOUR USE OF KNOWLEDGE AND NOT EMOTION...
I INVITE YOU TO ISLAM....YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR

striktlymi: Good morning Mr. Proo,

I am not here to speak for Islam neither do I claim to know the quran. All I will apply here are intuitive knowledge.

I believe you are a Christian and I decipher from your post that you are quite angry. I do understand your anger and frankly when my Uncle was killed I was very angry and looked for whom to blame. But is this the Christian spirit?

I felt the need to say my bit because I opened the thread and I don't want it to become a "battle ground" for all. I welcome any constructive argument both for and against.

But when I went through the quotes you put forward, I was quick to note that those quotes did not in any way support suicide. The quran was quite explicit about those it regards as martyrs and one key ingredient is being killed by someone or something else in the cause of Allah.




* The bolded implies that someone has to do it not the individual killing him or herself.



* The bolded still implies same. For the second bit, the prophet said the man fought till he was killed not that the man went to kill himself.



* The bolded actually strengthens the case of Islam. When one is stricken by a plague or Cholera which was incurable at the time, the need to commit suicide would be high but the prophet made them understand that allowing the process take its toll till you die for the sake of Allah without giving yourself to the temptation of suicide is heroic and as such implies martyrdom. This also can make a case for Jihad. From this I believe Jihad is not just about fighting humans. If you fight an internal struggle then you can be said to have fought bravely for the cause of Allah if and only if you do so for him.

It is quite clear too in our every day lives. If for instance you happen to kill a renowned criminal in cold blood, everyone in the society will be happy but the law will not find this funny. You will indeed be prosecuted as charged. So the fact that some Muslims are happy and the actions of the suicide bomber seem to be noble to him does not free that person from the judgement of Allah.

Thank you!
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by proo212(m): 8:02pm On Jan 02, 2013
I see you guys have quietly side-stepped the issue of the suicide bomber wanting to kill in the cause of Allah. He did not commit suicide for no reason! What was his motive for committing suicide? To slay and be slain in the cause of Allah.Surah 9:111 You can change the focus of the discussion all you want but everyone knows why the guy blew himself up, he wanted to kill as many kuffars as possible and cast and terror in the hearts of the people in the north. Surah 3:151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Can you move freely in Borno, Yobe and some other northern states especially on a Sunday? Was there speculation the violence was likely during Christmas? Are people as free as they were before without thinking of their safety? Be honest with yourselves.

Answer the simple question truthfully whether or not its islamic, what was motive of his suicide? Striklymi, for a Christian you seem to readily accept the explanations given by the guys on this thread...

3 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by maclatunji: 12:29am On Jan 03, 2013
Your lack of comprehension is very embarrassing. Islam is not what ignorant you want it to be.

#Pele
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 8:13am On Jan 03, 2013
Good morning Mr. Proo,

I appreciate the perspective you are bringing to the discuss but I will appreciate it if we do this without getting too emotional.

Again I say I am not here to speak in defence of Islam, I believe I am not competent enough to do so. I leave this to the islamic scholars in the house. I will only apply reason and intuitive knowledge like before.

proo212: I see you guys have quietly side-stepped the issue of the suicide bomber wanting to kill in the cause of Allah. He did not commit suicide for no reason! What was his motive for committing suicide? To slay and be slain in the cause of Allah.Surah 9:111

Sir, I would appreciate it if you will help with the quotes from the quran that tell us that the intention of an individual would make suicide permissible. At least I have seen evidence from the quran that says suicide is wrong.

Now sir, from the evidence I have seen, I don't think the Quran permits suicide because of one's intent, no matter how noble. There was the example of one who suffers from a plague. It would be noble and the intent would be good if the indivdual commits suicide given that his affliction can spread to other members of the community but despite this the Quran still says suicide is not acceptable.

Sir, does an end justify the means? The Quran forbids suicide but extols martyrdom. One wants to attain martyrdom. The indivdual decides to achieve this by doing an act that is condemned by the Quran. I don't think this makes much sense. Even the Nigerian law would not accept this, no matter how noble the intention.

proo212: You can change the focus of the discussion all you want but everyone knows why the guy blew himself up, he wanted to kill as many kuffars as possible and cast and terror in the hearts of the people in the north.

With respect sir, I believe you are the one trying to change focus. I don't see how this quote:

proo212:
Surah 3:151 "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

has anything to do with suicide. Like I mentioned before, the fact that the Quran extols martyrdom does not imply that it consider one who kills himself a martyr no matter the intention.

proo212:
Can you move freely in Borno, Yobe and some other northern states especially on a Sunday? Was there speculation the violence was likely during Christmas? Are people as free as they were before without thinking of their safety? Be honest with yourselves.

I agree that the North is in turmoil and as Mr. Tunji rightly said, the government is doing too little to curb this. Even America has more "psychos" than Nigeria but the difference is that the American government is doing something about it. Mr Tunji also made reference of anotherCountry where the government is doing something about terrorism.

proo212: Striklymi, for a Christian you seem to readily accept the explanations given by the guys on this thread...

You are indeed right that I am a Christian and it is for this very reason I cannot turn a blind eye to sound arguments backed up with proofs. It would be un-Christian to do otherwise. And really Mr Proo my beliefs as a Christian is not the focal point here. I can defend my faith but what is under scrutiny is whether or not the Quran permits suicide.


Thank you!

3 Likes

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 8:31am On Jan 03, 2013
maclatunji: Your lack of comprehension is very embarrassing. Islam is not what ignorant you want it to be.

#Pele

Good morning Mr. Tunji,

I do understand the point you are trying to make but don't you think some mutual respect is needed here?


Salam!

1 Like

Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by BetaThings: 9:23am On Jan 03, 2013
Mr Striktlym,

Good day
Bro Mac has been doing a good job around this place. But people really do try to get under his (and our) skin here. So forgive him for that sharp retort
I am convinced that you will make a good co-moderator in this section
But first promise me you will take the Shahadah

Best wishes
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 9:52am On Jan 03, 2013
BetaThings: Mr Striktlym,

Good day
Bro Mac has been doing a good job around this place. But people really do try to get under his (and our) skin here. So forgive him for that sharp retort
I am convinced that you will make a good co-moderator in this section
But first promise me you will take the Shahadah

Best wishes

Good morning sir,

I quite agree with you that Mr. Tunji is doing a very good job. Though I am new here, I felt very much at home when Mr. Tunji welcomed me like one of his own despite my religious affiliation, at a time where religious intolerance is at its peak. This is something I will treasure for a very long time. I believe sometimes in order to set one right, some sharp retort is needed but I know too well that this might be misinterpreted for insult hence my comment on the matter.

Salam!
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by iamsaheed(m): 10:03am On Jan 03, 2013
Salam, have gone through the tread so far and i would say am impressed with what i have read and i must commend Mr Striktlym....

on the topic, am a Muslim but i dont really know much in Quran but lets come to think of it as a well knowledgeable been , (1) is it not foolish to tie up ones self in explosives and walk into an area just to end life's, (2) what give them the impression that 100% of the location are all Christians?, (3) what message are they passing out by acting silly, (4) can they point out in the Qur'an or Hadith where the Prophet stealth in like a coward to attack its enemy? because (coward) is what they are to me, not being able to come out clean to face their opponent...

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Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by BetaThings: 10:19am On Jan 03, 2013
^^^^
Actually those guys are interested only in their own peculiar and narrowly-defined objectives
To them, if there are Muslim casualties - no problem, they are just collateral damage and perhaps those too will go to Jannah
Like someone mentioned, if suicide bombing opens the door to the highest level in Jannah, what is Shekau (BH's leader) still doing in this "unjust and sinful" world?

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Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 10:38am On Jan 03, 2013
i_am_saheed: Salam, have gone through the tread so far and i would say am impressed with what i have read and i must commend Mr Striktlym....

on the topic, am a Muslim but i dont really know much in Quran but lets come to think of it as a well knowledgeable been , (1) is it not foolish to tie up ones self in explosives and walk into an area just to end life's, (2) what give them the impression that 100% of the location are all Christians?, (3) what message are they passing out by acting silly, (4) can they point out in the Qur'an or Hadith where the Prophet stealth in like a coward to attack its enemy? because (coward) is what they are to me, not being able to come out clean to face their opponent...

Good morning Mr. Saheed,

I really do appreciate your input in the discuss at hand. I understand the points you have raised very well and frankly, I am glad that you hold such opinion. However, though this might seem a bit off and unpopular but I do understand the perspective of those who are into suicide bombing. First of all I do NOT in any way condone it and I believe firmly that any form of terrorism should be rooted out of the face the earth but still I am of the opinion that some (not all) of those involved in terrorism sincerely believe that they do right by Allah. Some do not know what the Quran teaches as regards suicide, all they know is what they were told about the Quran.

This is something well meaning Muslims should rise up against. I believe it should be the duty of every true muslim to study the word of Allah (I do not know about other areas but at least as regards suicide) and ensure their children KNOW this truth. You say you do not know much about the Quran, I believe this is something you need to remedy. If indeed Islam is about PEACE then I believe firmly that every true Muslim should study the Quran diligently in order to understand what it means to be a TRUE muslim. This starts with YOU!


Salam!

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Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by proo212(m): 11:08am On Jan 03, 2013
@Mr Striklymi, with all due respect, I wish you were consistent, one the one hand you understand the perspectives/motives of the suicide bombers and are of the opinion that they think they are doing right by Allah (you do not condone it)

And on the other hand you said in the first thread and I quote below, you want to understand their motive

But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed.

So what is this driven force? Lets find out what this force is, why some individuals think this is best way.
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by striktlymi(m): 11:38am On Jan 03, 2013
proo212: @Mr Striklymi, with all due respect, I wish you were consistent, one the one hand you understand the perspectives/motives of the suicide bombers and are of the opinion that they think they are doing right by Allah (you do not condone it)

And on the other hand you said in the first thread and I quote below, you want to understand their motive

"But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed."

So what is this driven force? Lets find out what this force is, why some individuals think this is best way.

Good morning again Mr. Proo,

I guess you didn't understand my words hence your belief that it is inconsistent. Let me attempt to explain your concerns.

Understanding why someone does something is different from accepting or condoning it. There have been unrepentant murderers who believe what they did was right. We understand their position but it does not mean that we condone what they did. Understanding and condoning an act are two very different things.

If you went through my other posts you would see where I talked about 'intention' and 'sincerity'. This actually was meant to bring the point you are concerned about i.e those who commit an act of terror because they sincerely believe they do right by Allah. You attempted to make it sound like I said it is applicable to all suicide bombers. This is not the case. I still hold the view that some suicide bombers are actually sincere in their resolve due to ignorance but this does not imply that what they do is right.

Now when I say I want to understand their drive it is not from the standpoint of what they say their motive is (this I understand) but what the Quran says about it (this I got to understand when I came here).


Hope I have been able to answer your query.


Thank you!
Re: Does The Quran Permit Suicide? by proo212(m): 10:04pm On Jan 03, 2013
@Mr Striklymii, this is another one from today, not suicide bombing but close.

YOLA, Nigeria (AP) -- Witnesses and authorities say at least four people were killed when gunmen suspected of belonging to a radical Islamist sect attacked a town in northeast Nigeria.
The attack happened early Thursday in the town of Song in Adamawa state. Adamawa state police spokesman Mohammed Ibrahim said the gunmen shot dead two civilians, a soldier and a police officer.

The assault in the rural area comes amid growing evidence that the radical sect known as Boko Haram is increasingly aiming at targets outside urban centers in Nigeria's northeast. Cities across Nigeria's predominantly Muslim north have been flooded with security forces who have been unsuccessfully trying to stop the sect's attacks.

Boko Haram is blamed for killing at least 792 people last year alone in Nigeria, according to an Associated Press count.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_NIGERIA_VIOLENCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-03-12-29-32

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