http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/index.php/content/view/7935/55

Click on the above link and read it.

@D-reloaded,

It's amazing the way you just think backwards. So you want Kingsway Mall back? There's Shoprite, there's the Silverbird Galleria, there's Mega Plaza, Park n Shop and many other sustainable shopping centres. Was Kingsway Mall better than them. Please, my friend, stop living in history and face reality.

Kingsway Mall was not selling what we needed. They were selling what the white slavemasters felt we needed. As long as the slavemasters remained, we continued to pretentiously file into Kingsway to make big fools out of ourselves but as soon as they left, everybody face market. That's what happened. Kingsway Mall could not meet up with the change and so they folded up. Anybody trying to bring Kingsway Mall back without a solid plan will certainly fail too. So please let's face reality and stop living in the past.

Another word for colonization is economic exploitation. Remember that Japan did not need any outside influence to colonize it, it simply mordernized itself aggressively by sending it best and brightest to study western ways and they came home and adopted it by copying the latest technology at the time, 70 years later, they had made the transition from a bunch of samurai warriors to one of the most formidable millitary machines in the world, infact, they even had the audacity to attack the US, where they got most of there technology from in the first place.

Is Africa being recolonized again with the presence of Chinese? A magazine report, I think, Ebony details the presence of Chinese in Nigeria.

http://www.thebibleistheotherside.org/lettersp4.htm; this site had a fact on colonization in a way eventhough it is sort of sad. And this kinda http://www.finalcall.com/perspectives/interviews/dr_felder07-30-2002.htm, sounds intresting especially at the last two answers.

The havoc wrecked by the kind of mentality that colonization gave to Africans exceeds all the contributions that the colonial masters made. They took from us a river filled with fishes(our mentality and individuality) and were kind enough to give us a basket containing fishes(buildings and names<lol> and Africans are still suffering from the consequence.

sholashola:

The havoc wrecked by the kind of mentality that colonization gave to Africans exceeds all the contributions that the colonial masters made. They took from us a river filled with fishes(our mentality and individuality) and were kind enough to give us a basket containing fishes(buildings and names<lol> and Africans are still suffering from the consequence.

RUBBISH!!! They did no such thing. We did it mostly to self and 47 years later, we are still doing it to self. Look at the many people in here who have never been outside of Nigeria that still go around claiming that everyone that does not sit and whine like they do are suffering from the white delusion. Look at Nigeria, we blame the west and civilized world more for things that are caused of our own hands. Majority of those who were alive during the colonial days are either dead or on their way off the planet but we continue to whine and moan about what we experienced so little of, 50 years later.

How we can ascertain if Colonialism was a trojan horse or beneficial to Africa would be to guage the level of development in addition to our complexes and then come to that conclusion.

As for me, I applaud Colonialism for introducing us to Christianity and stamping out evil practises like the killing of twins and human sacrifices. But colonialism has led to a rise of inferiority complex amongst some of us, who believe that anything Foreign is superior to home made products.

A rise almost 50 years later?? And we still say colonialism is to blame?? We have Nigerians in Nigeria who have never been to American crying and cursing America for "enslaving them" when personally, they have never experienced slavery of the such the african americans who did could tell of. And we want to point the accusing finger on colonialism?? I do not believe that the FOREIGN-IS-BETTER mentality has anything to do with colonialism. It has more to do with what we have come to grow up learning in that country. It has more to do with the fact that over the years, we have continually seen that manufacturing sector fall short over and over. With decades of the same, why should the Nigerian continue to settle for low quality when there are companies out there willing and able to offer them the same products and of high quality?

Is Africa being recolonized again with the presence of Chinese? A magazine report, I think, Ebony details the presence of Chinese in Nigeria.

Yes. I am forwarning Africa. The Chinese and Japanese are coming in and using our resources and claiming that they are helping us but they are not. Consider this, they come in build factories for "us" and employ "their own people" while we are jobless.

i would say no.

plus, colonialism shaped most of the cultures and traditions we have today but that's beside the point.
In fact, we're still being colonized. neocolonialism.

It was horrible in so many ways and good in a few ways. Horrible because most of us have been brainwashed into believing our ancestors had NOTHING to offer but SATAN and JUJU. Most of us have been brainwashed to accept we were lawless barbarians with no civilization until 'they' showed us the 'light'. Most of us (I believe 80%) were led to believe we had no knowledge of God, especially the Christians and that erroneous concept has not changed.

I love it for one reason though; many of us don't know this but the British smashed Islamic Jihad and put it in check! I don't believe in spreading religion by force, heck I am not religious at all, so I will ever be grateful to the British for that act.

@grafikdon, Jesus Christ is the Only Mediator between Man and God, that is the Truth. In the past, I think, some of our ancestors, who may have acknowledged the existence of the Supreme Being, however, thought that He could be be reached through idols. Things Fall Apart, by Chinua Achebe exposes these belief of our people.

@ Ndipe, I don't think you have a good understanding of Our lord Jesus, seeing that you referred to him as the 'ONLY mediator'. Aren't you complicating the concept of the Trinity? Or are you one of those who think the Trinity is hogwash? Oh well, that is another topic for another day.

Achebe did not try to 'expose' the beliefs of our ancestors, that's far from it. He wanted to correct the erroneous conceptions we were barbarians living in chaos and darkness until the Christians 'liberated' the 'dirty, mindless barbarians' from the power of 'darkness' and 'gods of stones and stick'. Many got the message, many didn't but Achebe threw more light on the issue and it became more obvious.

Ndipe:

@grafikdon, Jesus Christ is the Only Mediator between Man and God, that is the Truth. In the past, I think, some of our ancestors, who may have acknowledged the existence of the Supreme Being, however, thought that He could be be reached through idols. Things Fall Apart, by Chinua Achebe exposes these belief of our people.

grafikdon:

@ Ndipe, I don't think you have a good understanding of Our lord Jesus, seeing that you referred to him as the[b] 'ONLY mediator'[/b]. Aren't you complicating the concept of the Trinity? Or are you one of those who think the Trinity is hogwash? Oh well, that is another topic for another day.

Achebe did not try to 'expose' the beliefs of our ancestors, that's far from it. He wanted to correct the erroneous conceptions we were barbarians living in chaos and darkness until the Christians 'liberated' the 'dirty, mindless barbarians' from the power of 'darkness' and 'gods of stones and stick'. Many got the message, many didn't but Achebe threw more light on the issue and it became more obvious.

I don't see were Ndipe's post has anything to do with thinking the trinity is Hogwash. What do you think he means by what he posted there ?? Jesus himself said ,

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

In that verse Jesus makes it clear that He is the way and the only MEDIATOR as Ndipe stated.


[b]me·di·a·tor (md-tr)
n.[/b]1. One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants.
2. Physiology A substance or structure that mediates a specific response in a bodily tissue.

Colonialism is not Cooperation. Colonialism is not free trade ,it is nothing but a large scale roberry and manslaughter.
The king of Belgium's records in the congo under Lumumba, the French records against the bamileke' in cameroon,or against the algerian people are smoking guns.
Maintaining a country under harsh labour and unbearable disdain while exploiting its natural resources and manpower cannot equate the so called benefits europeans claim to have brought to Africa.

In principle a forced relationship as colonialism is not good bearing in mind that the intention of the 'colonial masters' was to derive as much benefits from those countries. They are not in Africa for humanitarian services. It is for cheap labour and natural resources.

The British started by referring to the countries as protectorate and later British subjects. They were in effect having a cheap labour and natural resources at undervalue. They set the prices for everything.  They have the 'military might' and pretended as they have come to be our friend. We are just the surbodinate and they are the superior ( Masters)

In every relationship, even the good ones do produce bad things and a bad relationship does have it's good side.

Christianity, some aspect of western education etc are the good by products of a very one sided master and servant relationship.

On the bad side, they bundled us together without regard for our history and culture. again the good side is that we more than intermingle with ourselves but also create atmosphere of divide and rule among the different tribes.

Now coming to what I think the poster have in mind several months ago while starting this thread. He is saying in effect, our government the initial one after independence and the subsequent ones have not make a significant improvement or rather they are regressing in some cases to the point that he thinks that even the colonial master may have been better at this point in our respective countries history.

The way I see it is that the basic problem is power drunkness without vision and faithful, thoughtful and foresight set of leaders.

If you will recall that people like Nkrumah and the Pre and immediate post independence leaders were determined to make African countries great. Unfortunately, the former colonial masters and our own leaders insatiable greed for power just for their own selfish ends

It is a design of neocolonialist which majority of our leaders up to OBJ and Yar adua falls into. Look, in any good country, Yar adua should not contest or win any election for the fact that he has to go to Germany for whatever illness that may have happen to him (even then he claimed is Flu based  illness) If he has fixed hospital fit for purpose in Kastina State or in Abuja (by his brother friend OBJ) he would not need to go - and he has already gone back to Germany once since he became President.

Also take another example the amount of Billions we take from Oil every year and the amount of gas wasting(called flaring) we cannot fix electricity in 47 years of our independence. You can now see why NDIPE is beginning to think maybe, just maybe that the colonial masters are better organised at stealing our resources. They build Railways in 1914 and it has been destroyed as of today

Colonialism is not or was not good for Africa but our leaders since independence has not refute the colonial master argument that they have been better 'buy' for Africa. The abuse of powers by our leaders make ordinary people feel that colonialism may have been better even though it was part of the colonial master plan to make sure that we are ungovernoable.

When I look at ABUJA which was created just over 30 years ago it makes me feel that if we have determined leaders and sturborn followers who jointly and honesty without tribal or religious affiliation demand our rights we can deliver the best for our people.

That said, in every honesty, greed has taken over our lives that it may be easy for the camel to pass through the eyes of the camel than for any African leaders to succeed.

If we hold our leaders accountable to providing social amenties and security which will reduce our reliance of trying to store monies in foreign account as a form of future security. We have to create wealth and not plunder and hoard wealth.

May God help us in having visionary and detrmined leaders and good follwership.

Christianity as taught by slave masters is just a deceit. tTeaching love on one hand and on the other hand not even willing to accept that african deserve as much respect as white is just repugnant.

grafikdon, how was Achebe able to disprove the beliefs upheld by some Non Africans that our certain parts of Africa, like Nigeria were governed by gods of sticks and woods? His book, Things Fall Apart, only underscores the belief. If I was a foreigner and read that book, honestly, one would realize that the advent of the Europeans which ushered in Christianity was a BLESSING to us!.

Read the death of Ikemefuna, because the oracle decreed so. As fictional as he is, this sort of tragedy was becoming in our society, pre-colonial times. Colonialism, by bringing in Christianity erased our fears of this idols that our forefathers had reverred. Thank God!

grafikdon, how was Achebe able to disprove the beliefs upheld by some Non Africans that our certain parts of Africa, like Nigeria were governed by gods of sticks and woods? His book, Things Fall Apart, only underscores the belief. If I was a foreigner and read that book, honestly, one would realize that the advent of the Europeans which ushered in Christianity was a BLESSING to us!.

Read the death of Ikemefuna, because the oracle decreed so. As fictional as he is, this sort of tragedy was becoming in our society, pre-colonial times. Colonialism, by bringing in Christianity erased our fears of this idols that our forefathers had revered. Thank God!

I think as I read the aforementioned book this past semester and discussed it in a post colonial class that the reason Achebe showed the African aspect was to allow us to see that he was no merely pointing the finger on the whites. He showed that the reason Christianity was a blessing was because some practices were almost senseless like the abandonment of twins. However if you notice he also shows how the whites that were not as understanding in handing out justice. In the dispute for land the whites gave land to whoever paid the most money. In the end Achebe showed that the reason for colonization was merely greed of ivory and the resources of others. He did not want to show it by pointing finger on one person, the colonists. Notice how the Abame tribe was massacred for killing ONE white person.

Ndipe:

grafikdon, how was Achebe able to disprove the beliefs upheld by some Non Africans that our certain parts of Africa, like Nigeria were governed by gods of sticks and woods? His book, Things Fall Apart, only underscores the belief. If I was a foreigner and read that book, honestly, one would realize that the advent of the Europeans which ushered in Christianity was a BLESSING to us!.

You didn't quote me right, not at all. In an interview, Achebe said among other things he wanted to point out we were not a bunch of lawless barbarians as perceived by outsiders who have little or no understanding of the African culture. I did suspect he wanted to convey that message, 'among other things', but hearing it from the horse's mouth sealed the deal for me.

Ndipe:
Read the death of Ikemefuna, because the oracle decreed so. As fictional as he is, this sort of tragedy was becoming in our society, pre-colonial times. Colonialism, by bringing in Christianity erased our fears of this idols that our forefathers had reverred. Thank God!

I don't have to read anything to know about the culture of my people. I have unlimited access to the so called 'Dibias' 'heathens' and 'traditionalists' and I get my information from them. I studied without prejudice both the pros and the cons, delved into areas where most people dare just to satisfy my curiosity and I was amazed at what I came up with. It's nice to know you're happy that Christianity brought you the knowledge of God, I am happy for you, but in my own case, it brought a new religion, and definitely not the knowledge of God. On a second note, our ancestors had a lot to offer, not just 'gods of sticks and stones'.

If you all have not, I would say you should all try to watch the movie APOCALYPTO. I know it is not really about the African culture and all but there are lot of similarities between the culture addressed in the movie and what we have before the colonials came to Nigeria. Happy viewing!!

Yes, I have seen Apocalypto several times and I still hold my opinion that our ancestors had more to offer than just 'gods of sticks and stones'. Despite the similarities in the African culture (especially West Africa) what is obtainable from one section does not apply to every nook and cranny of Africa, especially the issue of human sacrifice. I could go into details but that will derail the thread, let's reserve that for another thread.

I'd like to make it clear that my answer to the thread is YES and NO. The bottom line is to put the pros of Colonialism to GOOD use (we are yet to do that after how long, 47 yrs?)

I'd like to make it clear that my answer to the thread is YES and NO. The bottom line is to put the pros of Colonialism to GOOD use (we are yet to do that after how long, 47 years?)

I think the evils of colonialism have outdone the measly good. Maybe the greed they impacted is the reason the government officials are always all for themselves.

Wendymanda, go and read your history books of the exploits organized by rulers of ancient kingdoms of Africa, prior to colonialism.

Ndipe:

Wendymanda, go and read your history books of the exploits organized by rulers of ancient kingdoms of Africa, prior to colonialism.

And the ancient rulers of Europe were dancing Atilogwu before their 'people', handing out lollipops and candy canes? If you believe our ancestors had only 'Gods of stick and stones' to offer, you are either dishonest or you read about the history of your people solely from books written by 'Missionaries'. Even 'Anini' was not 100% evil.

And what were the redeeming qualities of Idi Amin? Care to share? My rebuttal on wendymanda's discourse was that he/she was trying to portray African leaders as less materialistic than the present leaders.

wendymanda:

I think the evils of colonialism have outdone the measly good. Maybe the greed they impacted is the reason the government officials are always all for themselves.

What are these many evils of colonialism of which you speak of?? I mean let us compare notes please.

The fact that we Africans still ask our selves this question shows how far we are from consciousness. Colonization is the worst thing that happened to Africa. It destroyed our society and our spiritual accent. Believe it or not neither Islam nor the Christian religions had brought Africans closer to God and self consciousness which is necessary for human development.
Ancient Africa had a more moralistic society than todays Africa. If you doubt this, I will give instances.

What are these many evils of colonialism of which you speak of?? I mean let us compare notes please.

The many evils include the sucessful stripping of culutral identity, the constant enforcement of the inferiority complex on the colonized "Self and Other complex". The looting of resources, the imparting of greed,
1.) In the inferority complex which caused the Rwandan genocide, colonization forced one group to be surpressed by the other because the "inferior" group was darker and did not have as straight a nose as the other tribe.
2.) The imagined nations between people that were only similar in skin color. Nigeria was not a big country various tribes were forced together thus the reason there is still unrest. There are other places where Hausa, Yoruba are spoken they did not have to force different tribes together.
3.) The quest for ivory and other resources "greed" was the main reason for colonization, read Heart of Darkness."
4.) Colonization has made us believe that many African practice is barbaric however, many of the barbaric cultures are now being adopted as cosmopolitan and art.


I wanted to start a new thread to an African government official that had the balls guts to answer the former colonial bastards masters, but I'll just put it on here.

Merkel puts Zimbabwe in spotlight over rights abuses 08 Dec 2007 20:08:00 GMT
Source: Reuters


(Updates throughout with quotes, details)

By Angelika Stricker and Henrique Almeida

LISBON, Dec 8 (Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel challenged European and African leaders on Saturday to confront human rights abuses in Zimbabwe, putting the country's president Robert Mugabe in the spotlight at an EU-Africa summit.

Her comments brought to the surface simmering disagreement over human rights at the first such summit in seven years, where European and African leaders met to try to forge a new partnership between the two continents.

With Mugabe listening, Merkel said the world could not stand by while human rights were "trampled underfoot".

"I appreciate that some African states have tried to solve the crisis in Zimbabwe but time is running out," Merkel told the summit. "The situation of Zimbabwe is damaging the image of the new Africa."

Rights activists, who had urged action at the summit on Zimbabwe and Sudan's Darfur, praised Merkel's comments. Britain's Prime Minister Gordon Brown boycotted the meeting because of the presence of Mugabe, whom the West accuses of violently suppressing opposition and wrecking his economy.

"Bravo for Merkel, she said what had to be said," said Reed Brody of U.S.-based Human Rights Watch.

In his speech to the summit on human rights, South African President Thabo Mbeki did not mention Zimbabwe, where he has tried to mediate between Mugabe and his political foes. Senegalese President Abdoulaye Wade told reporters: "Zimbabwe is not in the process of collapsing, nor is Mr. Mugabe in the process of collapsing.

"Who can say that human rights are being violated more in Zimbabwe than in other African countries? No one can say that."

Efforts to hold an EU-Africa summit were held up for years since the last meeting in 2000 because of wrangling over Mugabe, who is seen as an independence hero in Africa.

Pressured by China's growing investment and influence in Africa, the Europeans aimed at the summit to agree an action plan to revitalise trade with the world's poorest continent and also to improve cooperation over immigration and peacekeeping.

IMMIGRATION DEBATE

Prime Minister Jose Luis Zapatero of Spain, whose southern country is in the front line of efforts to stop Africans trying to reach Europe, urged cooperation in education, employment and infrastructure to stop illegal migration from Africa.

"Illegal immigration is the dramatic result of our collective failure," Zapatero told the summit.

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi said Europe had to solve a problem it had created by colonizing Africa.

"Either you give us back our resources or you invite us into your countries," two EU diplomatic sources quoted him as saying in his speech on immigration.

John Kufuor, president of Ghana and current chairman of the African Union, said the summit would help break and move away from a painful past relationship that included slavery, colonial rule and apartheid. "Europe needs Africa as much as Africa needs Europe," Kufuor said.

The call for a fresh start comes at a time when many African countries' economies are growing more rapidly than in several decades, thanks to a commodities-fuelled boom.

Massive investment by China in Africa in recent years, as Beijing secures raw materials to feed its own booming economy, has added to confidence on the continent and prompted concerns in Europe that it is missing opportunities.

EU-Africa trade is at an especially sensitive juncture, as the EU is rushing to reach new Economic Partnership Agreements with developing nations as replacements for a World Trade Organization waiver due to expire on Dec. 31.

African Union Commission Chairman Alpha Oumar Konare chided the EU for pushing through the new deals with individual nations or groups of nations, to Africa's disadvantage. (Additional reporting by Ruben Bicho, Pascal Fletcher, Angelika Stricker, Elisabete Tavares, Ingrid Melander, Sergio Goncalves and Henrique Almeida; writing by Axel Bugge; editing by Andrew Roche)

think it was the best for us, cos without we would have devoured ourselves silly

Colonialism had it's positive and negative sides, for one it allowed us to know how bad the system was, secondly it introduced certain concepts which we are benefitting from immensely today:education,health,infrastructure, it gave us the idea that the world was more than just a system of family relationships and clans interacting with each other.the ushering of Christianity,to Christians was also a good side of colonialism.it brought about improved governmental systems and admin practices,
On the other hand,it provided the framework for modern bureaucratic corruption,as well as the actualization of imperialistic values(exploitation notably).i think the Negative sides of colonialism,which by far outweigh it's positive sides is best captured in Walter Rodney's classic "HOW EUROPE UNDERDEVELOPED AFRICA". it is a concise work of the systematic degradation of the African continent.
Nevertheless,everything in life has it's advantages and disadvantages, Colonialism has played an important role in Africa's development,whether we like it or not,