The book of revelation differentiated between death and hades. Hades and death are not the same

chinedumo: The book of revelation differentiated between death and hades. Hades and death are not the same

Yes.

Hades which is the abode of the dead or the common grave of the dead which will be cast into the lake of fire.

chinedumo: Explain how jona was alife for three days under water.

If it was GOD who appointed a fish to swallow Jonah, are you saying that he could not have kept from dying totally ?

As someone said , If God had the power to create oxygen and the universe, certainly he could keep Jonah alive and breathing in a fish.

The doctrine of HELL has an origin and this origin is not from GOD , it has mostly evolved from Pagan cultures.

chinedumo: Explain how jona was alife for three days under water.

We do know Jonah was not dead abi??.....

This is like asking how divers survive under sea when using oxygen masks.......

Okay HELL FIRE LOVERS , you were right all along, there is a hell, people who are dead are not 100% dead, half of them is dead and the other half alive in HELL burning up to 30,000 degrees centigrade , and guess what , this is just the beginning, when the judgement is over and they are cast alive into the lake of fire, the temperature will be increased to 80,000 degrees centigrade, they will barbecue for eternity, world without end , meanwhile, you and your gentle godly folk will be singing glory alleluia in a blissful paradise , knowing quite well that most of the people you ever knew will be grilling in the core of the earth for all eternity.

What a lovely gospel and a lovely people.



The picture below should conjure up some of the most beautiful hymns and songs of praise, of this I am certain.

By sujesting that Jonah didnt die you make void a statement of jesus. You imply jesus did not die

◄ Matthew 12:40 ►
New International Version (©2011)
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights inthe heart of the earth

God so loved the world that he gave his only son

not God so loved the world that he refused to create hell

it is like suggesting that Loved the world he wont have destroyed the world with a flood

as opposed to God loved the world that he made a way of escape by building an ark

chinedumo: By sujesting that Jonah didnt die you make void a statement of jesus. You imply jesus did not die

◄ Matthew 12:40 ►
New International Version (©2011)
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights inthe heart of the earth

Where did Jesus say he died ?

Jesus said he was in the BELLY OF A HUGE FISH for 3 days , but you guys have changed this to mean 3 days in SHEOL , how did you manage to twist this simple scripture ?

Again, I ask you the question, who caused the fish to swallow Jonah ? Do you not think God could have sustained him even in the belly of the big fish.

whatever guys !!

chinedumo: God so loved the world that he gave his only son

You are not talking to the ignorant here bro.

Quote the verse in full.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16

God sent his Son so that we will have eternal life which is to live forever, the alternative is to Perish which means to DIE.

per·ish
/ˈperiSH/
Verb
Suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
Suffer complete ruin or destruction.

not God so loved the world that he refused to create hell

Are you for real

frosbel2:


Where did Jesus say he died ?

Jesus said he was in the BELLY OF A HUGE FISH for 3 days , but you guys have changed this to mean 3 days in SHEOL , how did you manage to twist this simple scripture ?

Again, I ask you the question, who caused the fish to swallow Jonah ? Do you not think God could have sustained him even in the belly of the big fish.

whatever guys !!

jesus compared the situation of Jonah with his own. He said it will happen the same way

Jonah himself said he cried out from sheol

Eliminating or minimising the penalty for sin does not show love. Love is shown in the remedy offered to escape the penalty

chinedumo: Eliminating or minimising the penalty for sin does not show love. Love is shown in the remedy offered to escape the penalty

Brother, what is the penalty of SIN ?


Shall we go to the bible ?


1. Romans 6:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


2. Ezekiel 18:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


3. Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.


4. Proverbs 11:19 Truly the righteous attain life, but whoever pursues evil finds death.


5. Romans 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



Are we missing something

I see pygru peeping....instead of engaging in meaningful discussions he would rather run around like lionel messi all over the religion forum........

Pygru...come and let's discuss HELL fire.......

frosbel2:


Brother, what is the penalty of SIN ?


Shall we go to the bible ?


1. Romans 6:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


2. Ezekiel 18:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


3. Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.


4. Proverbs 11:19 Truly the righteous attain life, but whoever pursues evil finds death.


5. Romans 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



Are we missing something

so if God loved the world he should have not created death or a tree of knowledge of good and evil

the passages u showed talks about the separation of the spirit from the body

almost every body has died. That does not mean that every soul died in sin

it is talking of a different kind of death

chinedumo:

so if God loved the world he should have not created death or a tree of knowledge of good and evil

the passages u showed talks about the separation of the spirit from the body

almost every body has died. That does not mean that every soul died in sin

it is talking of a different kind of death

[size=18pt]What !!!!!!!!!!![/size]

Now you have gone fully fledged PAGAN, this is witchcraft stuff.

James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead , so also faith without works is dead.

Mark 12
18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.

Jesus said

26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ [ d ] ? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of theliving. You are badly mistaken!”

chinedumo: James 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead , so also faith without works is dead.

Try using a lexicon bro.

Anyway here goes :

James 2:26; τό πνεῦμα ἐστι τό ζοωποιουν, ἡ σάρξ οὐκ ὠφελεῖ οὐδέν, the spirit is that which animates and gives life, the body is of no profit (for the spirit imparts life to it, not the body in turn to the spirit; cf. Chr. Frid. Fritzsche, Nova opuscc., p. 239),

this spirit is not a person or a separate entity but the life giving breath of GOD.

How has ur lexicon proved it?

chinedumo: Mark 12
18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.

Jesus said

26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ [ d ] ? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of theliving. You are badly mistaken!”

The saducees never believed in the ressurection....and Jesus had to tell them that his Father is not the God of the dead but of the living.......

The ressurection is what Jesus was talking about....when one is dead he/she stops existing until ressurection.........

So abraham has resurrected already?

ijawkid: I see pygru peeping....instead of engaging in meaningful discussions he would rather run around like lionel messi all over the religion forum........

Pygru...come and let's discuss HELL fire.......

So you want to Discuss with a fool

alexleo:

AND WHY WOULD YOU LOVE TO BE LIKE SOMEBODY? JESUS REMAINS OUR ROLE MODEL IN THIS CHRISTIAN RACE. Do you know him in and out or you think that what we present here in our discussions determines how upright we are before God? Dont even pray to be like anybody except to be like Jesus. God bless you.

Thanks, But no thanks.

Pygru:
So you want to Discuss with a fool

DONT MIND THEM. PEOPLE WHO CAME SCREAMING HERE THAT THEY ARE WISER NOW AND HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE HELL FIRE TEACHING THAN WHAT WE WERE TAUGHT. AND WE ALLOWED THEM TO SHOW US THE NEW LIGHT. SINCE THEN THEY VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE A CONVINCING EXPLANATION AND RATHER THAN BLAME THEMSELVES FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO CONVINCE US WITH THERE SO CALLED NEW DISCOVERIES, THEY RESORTED TO BLAMING AND INSULTING US AND OUR CHURCHES EACH TIME YOU QUESTION ANY GREY AREA IN THEIR USELESS DISCOVERY. A GOOD BUSINESS MAN KNOWS THAT WHEN YOU BRING IN A NEW PRODUCT IN THE MARKET, YOU MAKE EVERY EFFORT PATIENTLY TO CONVINCE THE BUYERS WHY THE NEW PRODUCT IS BETTER THAN THE ONE THEY ARE USED TO. HERE WE HAVE A BUNCH OF SO CALLED WISE MEN WHO DOESNT KNOW THE STRATEGY OF WINNING. NONSENSE. YOU ARE INTRODUCING A NEW PRODUCT TO ME YET WHEN I ASK QUESTION OR RAISE AN ISSUE ABOUT IT YOU SCREAM BLUE MURDER. THEY WANT US TO SWALLOW THEIR USELESS TEACHINGS WITHOUT QUESTIONING ANY PART OF IT. NONSENSE.
THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH ATHEISTS- YOU SAID YOU VE DISCOVERED THAT THERE IS NO GOD AND WE SAY, CONVINCE US. YET WHEN THEY FAIL THEY START BLAMING US AND CALLING NAMES. THE BURDEN OF CONVICTION LIES ON THE PERSON WHO IS BRINGING IN THE SO CALLED NEW AND BETTER THING. AND WHEN HE FAILS TO CONVINCE HE SHOULD TAKE THE BLAME. PERIOD.

Pygru:
Thanks, But no thanks.

frosbel:

We have been here before.

1. Jesus did not go to HELL , he died and went to Hades which again is the grave of the departed.

"BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY." - Acts 2:27

Do we have go all over this again? See how you twist the Scriptures to your own destruction. You said that Jesus didn't go to hell but the grave. Let me reiterate what hell means in Scipture, Hades the abode of departed souls while Sheol is the grave, Gehenna is the place of punishment, now which part don't you get?

Again Jesus said:

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death"

(Revelation 1:18).

Let's see how reputable bible scholars elucidate this verse:

1:18 alive for evermore.

The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead guarantees the fulfillment of all God’s promises concerning our own salvation, resurrection and everlasting life. "Because I live," He said, "ye shall live also" (John 14:19). See also Romans 6:9.

1:18 keys of hell.

Philosophers and religionists are always searching for the keys to life and death, but only Christ has them! "Hell" is actually Hades, the abode of departed souls in the heart of the earth. When Christ died, His Spirit descended into Hades, proclaiming victory to the evil spirits incarcerated there, then returned with the souls of those who had died in faith. See notes on Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27; Luke 16:23-26; Hebrews 2:14-15; 1 Peter 3:18-20; and Ephesians 4:8-10. The unsaved dead will be delivered up from Hades for judgment at the great white throne (Revelation 20:13).

[quote author=OLAADEGBU]

Do we have go all over this again? See how you twist the Scriptures to your own destruction. You said that Jesus didn't go to hell but the grave. Let me reiterate what hell means in Scipture, Hades the abode of departed souls while Sheol is the grave, Gehenna is the place of punishment, now which part don't you get?

If we take Hades to it's true meaning then we start to play with pagan ideas , for example :

Hades (pron.: /ˈheɪdiːz/; from ancient Greek Ἅιδης, Hādēs) was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. Eventually, the god's name came to designate the abode of the dead. In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea considering the order of birth from the mother, or the youngest, considering the regurgitation by the father. The latter view is attested in Poseidōn's speech in the Iliad.[1] According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the cosmos, ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently.

Anyway, Hades was used in the bible not in the context of the Greek Pagan myth but to depict the place of the departed dead or the common grave of dead mankind.

Let's see how reputable bible scholars elucidate this verse:

Reputable bible scholars ? That's why you keep deviating from the truth.

I prefer to listen to fisherman and carpenters who have the wisdom of God in them.

1:18 alive for evermore.

The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead guarantees the fulfillment of all God’s promises concerning our own salvation, resurrection and everlasting life. "Because I live," He said, "ye shall live also" (John 14:19). See also Romans 6:9.

And indeed , there is no contending with the above.

Jesus died 100% and was raised from the dead 100% bodily.

Philosophers and religionists are always searching for the keys to life and death, but only Christ has them! "Hell" is actually Hades, the abode of departed souls in the heart of the earth. When Christ died, His Spirit descended into Hades, proclaiming victory to the evil spirits incarcerated there, then returned with the souls of those who had died in faith. See notes on Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27; Luke 16:23-26; Hebrews 2:14-15; 1 Peter 3:18-20; and Ephesians 4:8-10. The unsaved dead will be delivered up from Hades for judgment at the great white throne (Revelation 20:13).

Jesus did not go to do battle with evil spirits, this is the stuff of fiction.

He simply overcame sin , died and overcame death, now he has the keys of hades to raise to life those who have died in Christ. This is the simplistic meaning, we do not need Phd holders to confuse us with their volumes of theology.

frosbel:

If we take Hades to it's true meaning then we start to play with pagan ideas , for example :

Anyway, Hades was used in the bible not in the context of the Greek Pagan myth but to depict the place of the departed dead or the common grave of dead mankind.

Hades is a Greek word that describes the abode of the dead. If you need the context in which it was used see Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23 and Acts 2:27.

frosbel:

Reputable bible scholars ? That's why you keep deviating from the truth.

I prefer to listen to fisherman and carpenters who have the wisdom of God in them.

And indeed , there is no contending with the above.

Jesus died 100% and was raised from the dead 100% bodily.

The fact that Jesus resurrected bodily doesn't detract from His spiritual sojourn in hell. Your fellow JW's don't even believe that He resurrected bodily. Both of you are at different extremes of heresies from the pit of hell.

frosbel:

Jesus did not go to do battle with evil spirits, this is the stuff of fiction.

He simply overcame sin , died and overcame death, now he has the keys of hades to raise to life those who have died in Christ. This is the simplistic meaning, we do not need Phd holders to confuse us with their volumes of theology.

And who said that He went to do battle? It says that He went to proclaimed victory as He collected the keys of hell and death and returned with the captives. It is either you are allergic to Ph.D holders or you are just a sore jealous loser who can't stand them. If you are confused it is because you wish to remain in darkness.

^^^^^

Jesus Christ did not go to fight any evil spirits, you have been watching too many Greek pagan mythological movies.

Let me try for a moment and correct your fanaticism. Jesus died bodily, he was 100% dead, the whole of him, not half of him. To suggest that when he died, he did not really die is antichrist doctrine.

Death affects the whole man and only a resurrection from this state can bring a man back to life, in the case of the saviour, the power of the Holyspirit brought him back to life, in the case of the dead in Christ, Jesus himself, who has the keys of the grave and death will bring his people back to life.

Further, Jesus clearly told his beloved disciples he was going away to prepare a place for them and once this place is ready, he will come back and take them to be with him. But if we introduce your pagan myth, suddenly they are with him before he has come back for them.

I understand your bondage to tradition, I was once in your position. My hope is that we will be freed from blind faith into the glorious liberty of the saints.

frosbel: ^^^^^

Jesus Christ did not go to fight any evil spirits, you have been watching too many Greek pagan mythological movies.

Let me try for a moment and correct your fanaticism. Jesus died bodily, he was 100% dead, the whole of him, not half of him. To suggest that when he died, he did not really die is antichrist doctrine.

Repeating a lie doesn't suddenly make it true except in your own eyes.

frosbel:

Death affects the whole man and only a resurrection from this state can bring a man back to life, in the case of the saviour, the power of the Holyspirit brought him back to life, in the case of the dead in Christ, Jesus himself, who has the keys of the grave and death will bring his people back to life.

The whole man consists of spirit, soul and body but in your own atheistic eyes the whole man is just "100% body" that goes into the grave. What's the difference between you and the athiests who don't believe in life after death?

frosbel:

Further, Jesus clearly told his beloved disciples he was going away to prepare a place for them and once this place is ready, he will come back and take them to be with him. But if we introduce your pagan myth, suddenly they are with him before he has come back for them.

Yes. Jesus promise true believers to take them to a place prepared for us which is the new Jerusalem but you need the Holy Spirit to guide you into the all truth when you read the epistles. Paul says here:

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you"

(Philippians 1:23-24)

However, it is only given to the believers in Christ to understand this.

frosbel:

I understand your bondage to tradition, I was once in your position. My hope is that we will be freed from blind faith into the glorious liberty of the saints.

Bible doctrine to you is tradition and tradition is bible doctrine. These are the last days when good shall be seen as evil and evil seen as good and you will even be thinking that you are doing good service for God. God certainly has given some people over to a strong delusion to believe a lie and teach it.

^^^^^

According to Genesis 2:7 man was formed from the dust of the ground, period. In this state of inanimation God breathed life through the nostrils of Man and he became a living soul.

I always like to go back to the beginning, do you ? How else can you twist this beautiful account of creation to make it match the pagan theory of a tripartite Man.

Man is dust sustained by the gift of God, which is the breath of life. According to David, Solomon and Job, when this breath returns to God, man returns to his original state of inanimation, turning to dust by the natural process of corruption.

These are clearly taught bible truths hidden from the wise and revealed to babes.

When Paul referred to Man in the context of spirt, soul and body, he was not signifying the constitution of his being but his entire person. Try and perform a proper bible exegesis on this verse ,and you will see your erroneous concept fall apart.

Let me repeat, because you seem to be grappling with this simplistic truth, when a Man dies he is dead, there is no hope for him but for the work of Jesus and the coming resurrection of the saints. Job, Paul, David, Peter et al quite easily and sincerely grasped this truth.

Pride and tradition are a dangerous combination when seeking for deep bible truths, truths which can only be deciphered by an honest, humble, diligent and intelligent bible exposition.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God"

(Hebrews 10:31) The Evidence Bible.

If as you say, death in the grave is the end how will it be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God? If death is the fate of the likes of Adolf Hitler, OBL and those who committed less crimes why should we be preaching the gospel if every sinner is just going to end up dead in the grave?