I only have one question on this thread.

[size=16pt]Is abortion morally justified?[/size]

let us discuss.

Mr anony: I only have one question on this thread.

[size=16pt]Is abortion morally justified?[/size]

let us discuss.

To make a start to this discussion, kindly tell us your stance on this very important issue.

frosbel:

To make a start to this discussion, kindly tell us your stance on this very important issue.

My stance is simple. Abortion is not morally justifiable. It is murder.

Any rules?

Quite an emotional topic...

I don't like it when people get emotional over a friendly conversation...

striktlymi: Any rules?

Quite an emotional topic...

I don't like it when people get emotional over a friendly conversation...

Lol, I don't think that arguing that something is objectively morally wrong is "emotional".

Premise 1: Murder (the unlawful killing of another human being) is evil.
Premise 2: The baby in the womb is a human being.
Conclusion: Therefore killing it is evil

Does the above sound better to you?

Mr anony:
Lol, I don't think that arguing that something is objectively morally wrong is "emotional".

I don't think so too but again considering that my basis for an objective moral code is biased towards a deity which makes it subjective, this might lead to some emotional outburst which would rather make meaningless the goal of this discourse...

Anyways, let me keep my fingers crossed and hope that all contributors will keep their emotions to themselves...

Enough said...back to topic!

Mr anony:
Lol, I don't think that arguing that something is objectively morally wrong is "emotional".

Premise 1: Murder (the indiscriminate killing of another human being) is evil.
Premise 2: The baby in the womb is a human being.
Conclusion: Therefore killing it is evil

Does the above sound better to you?

Yes it does!

It's a condemnable act. Both Bible and Koran forbid it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/13/kermit-gosnell-found-guilty-murder

The reason for opening this thread lies in the link above. The story is about Dr Gosnell who was convicted of first degree murder for killing babies minutes after delivery.
If only he had killed them while they were yet in the womb or partially delivered, he would have been an innocent man.

I find the above story absurd. As someone put it, "It is like sentencing a Nazi soldier to prison for beating a Jew to death instead of conveniently sending him to the gas chamber as he had been trained to do.

I'm interested in your thoughts especially those who are in favor of abortion.

Mr anony:
My stance is simple. Abortion is not morally justifiable. It is murder.

From a high level position we are in agreement, it is indeed murder.

However, what happens if it has been confirmed that a baby is to be born with 3 heads, 5 legs and 3 hands, what decision should be made in this instance ?

Mr anony: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/13/kermit-gosnell-found-guilty-murder

The reason for opening this thread lies in the link above. The story is about Dr Gosnell who was convicted of first degree murder for killing babies minutes after delivery.
If only he had killed them while they were yet in the womb or partially delivered, he would have been an innocent man.

I find the above story absurd. As someone put it, "It is like sentencing a Nazi soldier to prison for beating a Jew to death instead of conveniently sending him to the gas chamber as he had been trained to do.

I'm interested in your thoughts especially those who are in favor of abortion.

He was a very evil and wicked selfish man.

frosbel:

From a high level position we are in agreement, it is indeed murder.

However, what happens if it has been confirmed that a baby is to be born with 3 heads, 5 legs and 3 hands, what decision should be made in this instance ?

If I have a two year old conjoined triplet such that they are deformed in the way you describe, is it right to kill them?

Mr anony:
If I have a two year old conjoined triplet such that they are deformed in the way you describe, is it right to kill them?

Answer my question first , do not prejudge my perspective on this matter

frosbel:

Answer my question first , do not prejudge my perspective on this matter

It is a simple question. If you think it is ok to kill a deformed toddler, then it is ok to kill a deformed baby in the womb.

For me, it is not ok to kill the baby regardless of the amount of deformity.

Frosbel, you asked the question and I hope you wont shirk from giving an answer yourself (I can see Anony has tried to artfully dodge the question).

Remember, both of you have said that abortion is murder. Then there really should be no need to ask if it is ok to murder a three headed, 7 legged and one handed fetus.

The minute any of you says its ok, then it means you dont know what you are talking about because you have both earlier declared it to be murder. By the way Anony, murder is not the "indiscriminate" killing of another human being.

Im waiting to see if anyone will go to such ridiculous lows as saying using a condom is murder.

jayriginal: Frosbel, you asked the question and I hope you wont shirk from giving an answer yourself (I can see Anony has tried to artfully dodge the question).

That's not true

Remember, both of you have said that abortion is murder. Then there really should be no need to ask if it is ok to murder a three headed, 7 legged and one handed fetus.
The minute any of you says its ok, then it means you dont know what you are talking about because you have both earlier declared it to be murder.

I agree

By the way Anony, murder is not the "indiscriminate" killing of another human being.

ok thanks for the correction. I believe my intended meaning was passed across. perhaps the word I should have used was "unlawful"

Im waiting to see if anyone will go to such ridiculous lows as saying using a condom is murder.

I'm waiting to see if you will attempt to defend it at any level other than reductio ad absurdum

In a situation where the baby has to be aborted to save the mother's life due to one complication or the other, is it right? Is it still murder?

Mr anony:
It is a simple question. If you think it is ok to kill a deformed toddler, then it is ok to kill a deformed baby in the womb.

For me, it is not ok to kill the baby regardless of the amount of deformity.

Although I am very much against abortion, let us tread carefully and not take the high horse position when we have not experienced anything near these sorts of abnormal situations.

It's always easy to take the moral high ground , when we have never been put in a precarious position.

For us who are Christians , we believe that God can rectify any situation, but what about the lost , who do they go to ?

kazeemovic1: It's a condemnable act. Both Bible and Koran forbid it.

No they don't.

Mr anony: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/13/kermit-gosnell-found-guilty-murder

The reason for opening this thread lies in the link above. The story is about Dr Gosnell who was convicted of first degree murder for killing babies minutes after delivery.
If only he had killed them while they were yet in the womb or partially delivered, he would have been an innocent man.

I find the above story absurd. As someone put it, "It is like sentencing a Nazi soldier to prison for beating a Jew to death instead of conveniently sending him to the gas chamber as he had been trained to do.

I'm interested in your thoughts especially those who are in favor of abortion.

One can be in favour of abortion and be in support of Dr. Gosnell's conviction.

Mr anony:
Lol, I don't think that arguing that something is objectively morally wrong is "emotional".

Premise 1: Murder (the unlawful killing of another human being) is evil.
Premise 2: The baby in the womb is a human being.
Conclusion: Therefore killing it is evil

Does the above sound better to you?

The argument hinges on premise 2. Is the egg fertilized after 12 hours a human being? If not, then your second premise fails and with that goes your entire argument.

thehomer:

The argument hinges on premise 2. Is the egg fertilized after 12 hours a human being? If not, then your second premise fails and with that goes your entire argument.

Why did you choose 12 hours? Does this 12 hours has any particular significance as regard this topic?

Sal C: Why did you choose 12 hours? Does this 12 hours has any particular significance as regard this topic?

Try to think of it this way. At what time in the reproductive and fertilization process can you call the product a human being?

Sal C: Why did you choose 12 hours? Does this 12 hours has any particular significance as regard this topic?

I chose 12 hours to make it easier to make a decision.

thehomer:

The argument hinges on premise 2. Is the egg fertilized after 12 hours a human being? If not, then your second premise fails and with that goes your entire argument.

Lol, that's interesting. Are you therefore conceding that at 1 week, 1 month, 3months, 6 months, 9 months the baby is a human being? the only issue is for you is at 12 hours?

thehomer:

One can be in favour of abortion and be in support of Dr. Gosnell's conviction.

Of course in the same way you can also be in favour of gassing Jews and still be in support of punishing the Nazi soldier for beating a Jew.
In fact during the Holocoast, German soldiers were forbidden from raping their Jewish prisoners but were allowed to send them to the gas chamber. Odd isn't it?

frosbel:

Although I am very much against abortion, let us tread carefully and not take the high horse position when we have not experienced anything near these sorts of abnormal situations.

My friend, it doesn't still justify the murder of the child. What about the child's experience?

It's always easy to take the moral high ground , when we have never been put in a precarious position.

God is always on the moral high ground and we are to act in His way. Trials are not an excuse for sin.

For us who are Christians , we believe that God can rectify any situation, but what about the lost , who do they go to ?

Still doesn't justify murdering the baby.

Mr anony:
Lol, that's interesting. Are you therefore conceding that at 1 week, 1 month, 3months, 6 months, 9 months the baby is a human being? the only issue is for you is at 12 hours?

No I'm not. I'm just wondering how you determine that a fetus is a human being.

Mr anony:
Of course in the same way you can also be in favour of gassing Jews and still be in support of punishing the Nazi soldier for beating a Jew.

Not the same way but I don't think Nazis were punished for beating Jews.

Mr anony:
In fact during the Holocoast, German soldiers were forbidden from raping their Jewish prisoners but were allowed to send them to the gas chamber. Odd isn't it?

Not odd just based on misinformation and a terrible ideology. You'll realize this when you consider why they were forbidden from raping their prisoners.

thehomer:

No I'm not. I'm just wondering how you determine that a fetus is a human being.

Why specifically 12 hours then? why not 1 month or 7 months and 4 days?

thehomer:
Not the same way but I don't think Nazis were punished for beating Jews.

In exactly the same way. In both cases the Jews die. Also you need to learn to detect analogies

Not odd just based on misinformation and a terrible ideology. You'll realize this when you consider why they were forbidden from raping their prisoners.

...and you don't think the "pro-choice" ideology is a terrible one? If Dr Gosnell had killed the baby 10 minutes earlier without bringing it out, he would have been an innocent man. That doesn't strike you as odd? Is the baby only human once it comes out of the womb?

Mr anony:
In exactly the same way. In both cases the Jews die. Also you need to learn to detect analogies

Punishing Nazis doesn't kill Jews.

Mr anony:
...and you don't think the "pro-choice" ideology is a terrible one?

No I don't.