shdemidemi: some things you think are contradictory are actually not, they are possible because of God's divine nature, some are due to change of names of people and places amongst others. I understand you must have copied it from some where, seat and check contexts at which words were used, compare with other translations or check the hebrew meanings and all other factors that might make things look contradictory. THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONTRADICT

I copied the contradictions from the Bible, go and read the Bible yourself. The citations are there. Tell me which ones are due to change of names of people and places. Unlike you if you provide me any evidence of what you are saying, I would accept them. As you can tell, I m not dogmatic, help me out here, I don't need your opinions and desires because, I did not quote my own opinions, I quoted the Bible.

I need proof not conjectures. I know your dilemma, you do not want the Bible to be contradictory because it will rock the foundation of the house you've been imprisoned by your pastor without knowing it, Go beyond this house of cards and you'll be free,

1. How many Gods are there?
(GEN 1:26) God said "LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE ACCORDING TO OUR LIKENESS",
(GEN 3:22) God said "MAN HAS BECOME LIKE ONE OF US."
(DEUT 6:4) God is one God

in the beginning whenever it was, God started it all. Here we have the term of Deity spelled G-O-D in our English, but in the Hebrew it was Eloheim. And Eloheim in the Hebrew is a plural word. If you have a text in your Old Testament that refers to the pagan gods, plural, it’s the same Hebrew word only without the capitalization. It’s the small "e"- eloheim. And so it’s the Triune God of a plurality of persons. And I’m a stickler in that I am a firm believer in the Trinity, or the Triune God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.


God The Father – God The Son - God The Holy Spirit.

Now that’s a plurality of personalities, and yet each one of these are a distinct personality within themselves. So what we’ve really got here then is that the Triune God, the Trinity. is saying:


Genesis 1:26a

"Let us make man in our image,…"

You as a person has the same image of God-


I Thessalonians 5:23

"And the very God of peace sanctity you wholly; (or completely) and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

A believer is similar to God in image and likeness having body soul and spirit and yet he is 1 man.

God? The Christian doctrine of the "trinity", attempting to reconcile Jewish monotheism with Jesus' self-revelation, holds that Jesus 1) is both fully human and fully divine, and 2) is God (in a different "person". The former is a contradiction, and the latter has no scriptural basis. In the gospels Jesus never claims identity with God or even explicit divinity, but rather a divinely special status as "the Son of God" and the "Anointed One" (Hebrew: messiah; Greek: christos). Jesus repeatedly distinguishes himself from God:

Why do you call me good? No one is good--except God alone. [Mk 10:18, Lk 18:17, Mt 19:17]
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. [Mk 13:32]
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. [Lk 12:10]
Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. [Lk 22:42-43]
Father, into your hands I commit my spirit. [Lk 23:46]

the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son [Jn 5:22]
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. [Jn 5:30]
I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. [Jn 8:28]
I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. [Jn 8:42]

If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God. [Jn 8:54]
I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. [Jn 12:49]
The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work [Jn 14:10]
If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. [Jn 14:28]
I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. [Jn 14:31]

Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. [Jn 16:25]
I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. No, the Father himself loves you [Jn 16:26-27]
I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. [Jn 20:17]
As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. [Jn 20:21]

When Jesus' opponents say his assumption of authority could be interpreted as a claim of divinity, all three synoptics agree [Mk 2:10, Mt 9:6, Lk 5:24] that Jesus merely asserted "authority on earth", and none intimates that his accusers concluded he was affirming their accusation. In the one instance in the gospels [Jn 10:33ff] in which Jesus' identity with God is explicitly discussed, Jesus cites a Psalm [82:6] as a precedent for his metaphor, and hastily retreats to his formulation of being "God's Son", adding vaguely that "the Father is in me, and I in the Father". However, 1 Jn 2:15 says this is true of anyone who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, and Jesus used the same mutual inclusion poetry about him and his disciples [Jn 14:20]. When at another time [Jn 5:18ff] the Jews characterized the "Son of Man" title as "making himself equal with God", Jesus answered not by claiming identity but by drawing distinctions:

the Son can do nothing by himself
the Father loves the Son
the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son
the Father sent the Son
the Father has granted the Son to have life in him
the Father has given him authority to judge
I seek not to please myself but him who sent me

Thus Jesus retreats the only two times he is accused of claiming identity or equality with God. In the Passion story, Jesus was mocked or accused as a faith healer, prophet, king of the Jews, Messiah, and "Son of God" [Jn 19:7] -- but never as divine or as a god. When Jesus died, onlookers are said to have exclaimed not that Jesus was God, but rather the "Son of God" [Mat 27:54].

What would be your next charge? Ha, I guess, I need Holy Ghost again or may be I simply conjured the Bible to change right? The problem you have is that many of you do not read the Bible for knowledge, you read it through someone else guidance pointing you to where he can use Biblical verses to manipulate you. I was once like you, I first became exposed to the Bible first for Baptism, then as a moral teaching in primary school. In secondary school, I studied it to pass exams.

It was when, I began to seek knowledge that I began to understand the Bible. Most people do not have the free will to study the Bible, they are under threat of eternal damnation if they dare ask questions. They are threatened by society, by their parents and/or their pastors so they just swallow indoctrinations like the fish swallowed Jonah. The Bible is more fun when you read it with open mind not under duress,

That's where the problem is, you are missing a lot but I won't compel you. I believe if you are really willing you will find the truth. It is written 'on the day of God's power, His people shall be willing'.


John 10:30

New International Version (NIV)


30 I and the Father are one.”

Christ is 100% man and 100% God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

And the Word [/b]was made [b]flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The bible also says 'For we [b]know [/b]in part, and we prophesy in part'. When it comes to [b]divinity [/b]of God, We can only believe because we know in parts and when it comes to the word of God, it never contradicts except we don't or decide not to know.

shdemidemi: That's where the problem is, you are missing a lot but I won't compel you. I believe if you are really willing you will find the truth. It is written 'on the day of God's power, His people shall be willing'.


John 10:30

New International Version (NIV)


30 I and the Father are one.”

Christ is 100% man and 100% God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

And the Word [/b]was made [b]flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The bible also says 'For we [b]know [/b]in part, and we prophesy in part'. When it comes to [b]divinity [/b]of God, We can only believe because we know in parts and when it comes to the word of God, it never contradicts except we don't or decide not to know.

This means nothing...he said that before Abraham he was but he did not say that he was as a GOD, did he? He might have existed as a lamb of God but not God himself I cited his own words where he did not equate himself as God. It is oxymoronic to say that Christ is 100% man and 100% God.

Show me what I am missing with evidence no conjectures, opinions and desires. Just good ole evidence that is in controvertible. I am willing to learn and I have been saying this because I have an open mind, You are yet to show me any evidence but you still have time. Although, I can't wait forever.

omonuan:

This means nothing...he said that before Abraham he was but he did not say that he was as a GOD, did he? He might have existed as a lamb of God but not God himself I cited his own words where he did not equate himself as Od.

I gave you three points, you addressed one. why?

shdemidemi:
I gave you three points, you addressed one. why?

You gave me no point that shows Christ says he was God to support trinity, You are simply spinning the same lame facts, Show me concrete evidence.

omonuan:

You gave me no point that shows Christ says he was God to support trinity, You are simply spinning the same lame facts, Show me concrete evidence.

if you say they are lame, address them please.

shdemidemi:

if you say they are lame, address them please.

How many times do you want me to address them, I already addressed the same thing, I have shown biblical verses that God had many children including Jacob, David et al. And Jesus saying that he was before Abraham, does not mean that he existed as GOD. At least he did not say that he was GOD,

Yea in John 10:30 he said he and GOD are one compared to many verses I cited where he said he was not GOD. If nothing else, you just showed another contradiction in the Bible unwittingly.

How many sons does God have?

God has only one son (Jesus).
He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. -- John 3:18
God sent his only begotten son into the world. -- 1 John 4:9
Adam was also God's son.
Adam, which was the son of God. Luke 3:38

Some of God's sons had sex with women producing a race of giants.
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. -- Genesis 6:2-4

Satan and his companions were sons of God.
The sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. -- Job 2:1
God's sons were present when the universe was created.

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? -- Job 38:6-7

So the question is which son or sons of God is/are part of your trinity? Is it the devil, Adam or Christ? the Bible was not explicit about that was it? So why choose one over the other. Could the son(s) of God that went into daughters of men in Genesis 6:2-4 be part of the trinity?

omonuan:

How many times do you want me to address them, I already addressed the same thing, I have shown biblical verses that God had many children including Jacob, David et al. And Jesus saying that he was before Abraham, does not mean that he existed as GOD. At least he did not say that he was GOD,

Yea in John 10:30 he said he and GOD are one compared to many verses I cited where he said he was not GOD. If nothing else, you just showed another contradiction in the Bible unwittingly.

Anyways, I won't be arguing over this any further, but go and understand the whole story behind the bible, then you would understand why Christ would not say I am God and when he said something close to that he was hung on the tree.

Being the son is different from a begotten son. There are only two begotten sons in the whole of the bible Isaac and Jesus. You need to understand and study why that is instead of drawing conclusions.

Don't fight too hard to see the bible contradict cos the scripture says 'let God be true, but every man a liar'. There are many rivers yet to cross for you and many heights to reach, study without prejudice and you will see how all contradictions will disappear.
It is only in the bible you would here a sinner is righteous, two opposite words, but for a believer we understand it as grace, an unbeliever sees it as contradiction.

Enjoy bro.

shdemidemi:

Anyways, I won't be arguing over this any further, but go and understand the whole story behind the bible, then you would understand why Christ would not say I am God and when he said something close to that he was hung on the tree.

Being the son is different from a begotten son. There are only two begotten sons in the whole of the bible Isaac and Jesus. You need to understand and study why that is instead of drawing conclusions.

Don't fight too hard to see the bible contradict cos the scripture says 'let God be true, but every man a liar'. There are many rivers yet to cross for you and many heights to reach, study without prejudice and you will see how all contradictions will disappear.
It is only in the bible you would here a sinner is righteous, two opposite words, but for a believer we understand it as grace, an unbeliever sees it as contradiction.

Enjoy bro.

You don't have any option than to throw in the towel, It is as simple as that. I would like to thank you though for being civil and not losing your cool in the face of a barrage of information that you find difficult to accept. Others might have lost their cool. It has been fun and I just want to tell you that I appreciated your discourse even though I disagreed with them, I am sure you are a good person, I know you have learnt many things you did not know about the Bible even though you wouldn't admit it.

You and I must join hands to restrained those who want to turn this world into a religious nightmare. We can all live in peace, Christians, Moslems, no matter what your belief we need peace . After all, we are going to account individually for our deeds if at all. Pope Francis is on to something recently, when he said that atheist who do good would go to heaven and I say amen to that, Our deeds matter a lot not what we profess. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are alleged to be atheists but their space in heaven is assured for their good deeds here on earth. Thanks!

omonuan:

You don't have any option than to throw in the towel, It is as simple as that. I would like to thank you though for being civil and not losing your cool in the face of a barrage of information that you find difficult to accept. Others might have lost their cool. It has been fun and I just want to tell you that I appreciated your discourse even though I disagreed with them, I am sure you are a good person,

You and I must join hands to restrained those who want to turn this world into a religious nightmare. We can all live in peace, Christians, Moslems, no matter what your belief we need peace . After all, we are going to account individually for our deeds if at all. Pope Francis is on to something recently, when he said that atheist who do good would go to heaven and I say amen to that, Our deeds matter a lot not what we profess. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are alleged to be atheists but their space in heaven is assured for their good deeds here on earth. Thanks!

It is not a matter of throwing the towel, the scripture says Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do

and as for leaving in peace here on earth I support but the doctrine of universality is a doctrine of demons according to the bible. There is only one power of salvation and that power is through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

omonuan:

You don't have any option than to throw in the towel, It is as simple as that. I would like to thank you though for being civil and not losing your cool in the face of a barrage of information that you find difficult to accept. Others might have lost their cool. It has been fun and I just want to tell you that I appreciated your discourse even though I disagreed with them, I am sure you are a good person,

You and I must join hands to restrained those who want to turn this world into a religious nightmare. We can all live in peace, Christians, Moslems, no matter what your belief we need peace . After all, we are going to account individually for our deeds if at all. Pope Francis is on to something recently, when he said that atheist who do good would go to heaven and I say amen to that, Our deeds matter a lot not what we profess. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are alleged to be atheists but their space in heaven is assured for their good deeds here on earth. Thanks!

I have been following ur posts and arguments and i believe u are trying to shy away from the truth!

I always tell people that they can believe what they like...but what they believe will noot change anything...it won't change the fact that God is God; that Jesus is the Son of God(as according to His earthly ministry i.e His coming to the earth) and that He is God(divinity).
Please if you have read the Bible so well as you claimed,then you should know that 'a man's good deeds-no matter how big' will not get him to heaven- it is satan's deception!
It is accepting the gift of salvation through Christ Jesus that guarantees ones eternity!

Shalom.

Mintayo:

I have been following ur posts and arguments and i believe u are trying to shy away from the truth!

I always tell people that they can believe what they like...but what they believe will noot change anything...it won't change the fact that God is God; that Jesus is the Son of God(as according to His earthly ministry i.e His coming to the earth) and that He is God(divinity).
Please if you have read the Bible so well as you claimed,then you should know that 'a man's good deeds-no matter how big' will not get him to heaven- it is satan's deception!
It is accepting the gift of salvation through Christ Jesus that guarantees ones eternity!

Shalom.

Shy away from the truth? How is that? Did I misquote the Bible in anyway? Which amophous truth are you talking about? That truth that zealots refuse to accept when it does not quite fit their agenda? Which one is it please? Define the truth first and then tell me how I am shying away from it.

If I misquoted the Bible in any way, please show me where and show me the correct quote. Please don't tell me that I need Holly Ghost to interpret the Bible or anything along that line like "you just don't understand." I just finished showing the futility of that point and I am not about to start another.

I have shown the basis of my assertions with the Bible citations, if they are not true as quoted, I stand to be corrected but if they are quoted correctly and you don't want to believe them, then you and the other zealots are the ones "shying away from the truth," not me contrary to your assertions. While you are at it, show me exactly what I have said here that is not true.

You have not read the complete Bible yourself and you missed my posts here showing that even Christ himself said he was not God. It is not too quixotic to understand that Christ being both God and man is oxymoronic. Christians are not supposed to tell lies and call things what they are not. Do not pretend that what I quoted from the Bible are no longer true because they do not jive with your desires or indoctrination.

How does your assertion that Christ is also God correspond with Deut 6:4 which says that there is only one God? If Deuteronomy is correct wouldn't that confirm that you are shying away from the truth? Isn't Deut 6:4 not a contradiction to your trinity theorem?

In john 14:28, Christ said: "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I"

Does this mean that Christ is greater and inferior to himself? Help me identify the truth since these are not true to you.

If Christ is also God why did God say: in Exodus 20:3, 5
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them." Don't you think he would have asked you here to bow to Christ? However, he said no other Gods should be served.

^^^ I have told you to go read properly or get yourself a teacher of the bible. Your assertions are just carnal at best. One plus one to you is equal to two, with God it could be equal to 10. If the bible say so, I believe it. If that makes me a zealot, tough. I have explained three in one (triune God) to you but you remain adamant to the truth, you would rather believe the part that makes you feel it contradicts. Pick your contradictions one after the other, do your study on them and stop making erroneous statements all in the name of ignorance.

@omonuan

Oh well, you spent a long space writing without really saying much regarding the issue.

Omonuan, can you see yourself now that you cant defend what you copy from other sites as a perceived 'contradiction,' it is easier to copy loads of others work and make them look like yours but i have a way of handling that;let us treat them one by one,of which i did in my last post,
The ever first querry you raised was a comparison of mathews report and luke's, and i did justice to that in a a counter reply breaking the 2 verses into ;a,b,c and d, hence Mathew=a,b and luke=c, and d. (below)

i was expecting you to be sincere and provide a counter to my reply on the same verses you started your querry with (in mathew and luke) but you simply shy away, see again, its popping up here below;

(1)

in mathew

Matthew 4:5-8:

a, Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.

b, Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

the bolded above 'then' starting the sentence [in (a)], and also 'Again' starting the sentence [in (b)] clearly gives no holes in accomodating what preceeds the other, which means this particular account of mathew can be relied upon regarding where jesus went and proceed to another, hence 'then,' 'again' shows a continous relationship as the story unfolds.

but not the same with luke;

in luke;

you alledge that Satan took Jesus to the mountain first, then the temple.(there is nothing to suggest where comes first before the other, other than mere mentioning of the places they(jesus and the Devil) went

lets see;


c, Luke 4:5-9: The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.

d, The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.

there is no relationship or words whatsoever that suggest a conclusion of where comes first in c and d above, rather you forcefully attach or tag 'first' to c above before d, while the sentence was with holes that could be rearranged otherwise like a and b above without problem.

i think it is better for you to leave the sentence as it was without tagging 'first' or 'second' or rather stay glued to your opinion! and allow others to have their own opinion on that

i have used the bible itself to prove even further(using luke 1:1-4) how luke(who was not an eye witness) receive his own information by relying on 'information of a trusted eye witness' which is the reason why he chose to leave his own report open(c and d)above, and not tag where jesus went first or second, but capture both events not as a 'FIR'(first information report). what else do you want? but had it been luke tagged the temple as first and mountain second, i will not argue with you, but as it stands YOU FORCED a 'first' and ''second' on the account of luke concrning the devils temptation, and thus it is misleading, so having expose you on your very first querry involving the comparism of mathew and luke above,

[b](2)[/b]Again you raise this querry below;

Paul says:
1 Corinthians 7:25
"Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful."

2 Corinthians 11:17
"That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting."

1 Corinthians 7:12
"To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her."

and see my reply below;

So why did Paul use the phrase “I, not the Lord?” Simply because he was explaining something that had not already been covered by “the Lord” (Jesus) while He was on earth. In this section of scripture Paul provides us with a beautiful example of how important it was for the Apostles to preserve and not to alter the words of Jesus.
Paul states clearly in other places, including the same letter in which this phrase is found, that the words he is writing are inspired by God.

Later in the same book(1 corinthians 14), he states very clearly: “If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s

Paul also told his disciple, Timothy that “All Scripture is God-breathed (1 tim 3:16)” This would include Paul’s words.

Even Peter alludes to Paul’s writings and refers to them as God inspired scripture.(2 Peter 3:15-16)

in all the bible doesnt contradict itself, but only honest ones will search and embrace the truth in it
but lazy ones dont, note that few will be chosen by God, so it is not by force that the bible appeals to you, ok?


Again you have failed to counter these above,maybe you think im going to give a 'blanket statement' which you may have prepared for, but no, i choose to tackle them one by one, so as it is, like in the court of law, you have to supply a counter statements with facts on my replies,while the onus is on me to supply further and further counter replies 'on a particular querry' lets pick them one by one.

dont sit 'on the fence'now, you have refer to my earlier reply as a 'spin' instead of you to counter same above with further scriptures, i understand that you are running out of gas which is laughable now. you know that i told you that you dont need to agree with me, you have already made up your mind to treat the holy scriptures older than your whole generation with disrespect maybe sitting on a sofa and reading different versions of the bible on your computer device but could not aknowledge that many had died in the course of putting these 66 books of the holy scriptures together,but despite the strong persecussion to those translators they could not stop its circulation. i have ask you to name just one book as popular and most circulated in most languges other than the bible.


one thing that im able to achieve is to get you out of your shell, and reveal your hypocrisy! you once said that you are a bible scholar, but could only copy and paste others work without beign able to defend 'each' of those allegations,and the worse yet you dont believe in the bible, why are you a so called bible scholar(maybe you just feel that anybody who can rationalise verses without getting a meaning out of it is qualified to be a scholar anyway thats your buz)

after your counter replies, i will pick the next verse ant treat it, you can also invite your co-atheists to join you or click on 'like' to encourage you, i want to engage you guys, but waiting for your couter replies on 1 and 2 above before we proceed.

@Omonuan, i admire ur sincerity and honesty, most of the things u said are true but the only thing u lack is the knowledge(epignosis) of ' THE TRUTH'. just like the young rich ruler. Who had an encounter with Jesus. On the issue of the negative impact of religion and the need to fight it, am on ur side, and i want to say that, the real culprits are not the likes of those guys that recently beheaded a British soldier(i'v forgoten their names) but imams, pastors etc. In christianity in particular, our problem is just one man, 'the stomach inspired, agent of satan who called himself 'a pastor'. Thats a story for another day, but for now, my sincere advice to u, bc i see u are genuine and honest is to seek to know 'THE TRUTH', for the bible says "in him is hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge"(col2:3),he is "the way, THE TRUTH and life"(jn 14:6) if u know him, it will evaporate ure contradictions bc ur values will change into wanting to be like him and ur search for peaceful coexistence will be enhanced. God bless u plenty.

shdemidemi:


John 10:30

New International Version (NIV)


30 I and the Father are one.”

Christ is 100% man and 100% God.

if Jesus says that i the and father are one in john 10:30, in the same book of john open further to john 17:21, while speaking to the same people jesus provides the kind of 'oneness' he is talking about, and this should be understood when he says;

john 17:21
King James Bible
"That they all may be one; as thou,[size=14pt] Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us"[/size]:

and to clear any doubt that he 'jesus is Gods servant' he went further to add this comment; ''that the world may believe that thou hast sent me"


the bible interpretes itself, the problem was from the translators who have to translate the /hebrews/greek/aramaic of bibles original manuscripts into our own language, some of these words appears only in consonants, and even the hebrew words does not have upercase and lowercase, thats why a christian tries to consider various verses and reconcile in sincerity,

thanks

christemmbassey: @Omonuan, i admire ur sincerity and honesty, most of the things u said are true but the only thing u lack is the knowledge(epignosis) of ' THE TRUTH'. just like the young rich ruler. Who had an encounter with Jesus. On the issue of the negative impact of religion and the need to fight it, am on ur side, and i want to say that, the real culprits are not the likes of those guys that recently beheaded a British soldier(i'v forgoten their names) but imams, pastors etc. In christianity in particular, our problem is just one man, 'the stomach inspired, agent of satan who called himself 'a pastor'. Thats a story for another day, but for now, my sincere advice to u, bc i see u are genuine and honest is to seek to know 'THE TRUTH', for the bible says "in him is hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge"(col2:3),he is "the way, THE TRUTH and life"(jn 14:6) if u know him, it will evaporate ure contradictions bc ur values will change into wanting to be like him and ur search for peaceful coexistence will be enhanced. God bless u plenty.

Thanks man, you are the first the first honest person to comment on the critical issues I have raised. As a good Christian one should not see white and call it black as many many have done so here. The truth is indestructible. The only thing I disagree with you is that you said that I lack Knowledge of the Truth after you said that most of the things I said are true. This is oxymoronic but I will give you kudos for not hiding under falsity. You have to admit that you can't be right and yet wrong in the same vain.

Nevertheless, I think I know what you are saying which has already be said by others and I have previously nullified. You are essentially saying that you need Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. It should not be so brother! This lack of understanding charge is all that has been level against me by the nay Sayers but no one has shown me a different way to understand other than asking me to just read the Bible and be brainwashed. I would reiterate what I said before, which is that the Bible should not be studied under duress and it is not a cypher. It is written in simple terms to my understanding. The difference between me and many others is that I am not under the spell of "stomach inspired agent who calls himself a pastor." I have been there done that!

Contrary to your assertions, I have sought knowledge and truth in the Bible and I have found them. However, I would be willing to learn methods of reading devoid of brainwashing if there is any such method. Please join the effort to stop the loonies from making the world hell. Thanks brother for your understanding.

I am no longer going to argue with people who are deliberately avoiding the truth right in their faces, the Contradictions are there for anyone to see. It is okay if the so called born again Christians want to lie for Christ sake. It is up to them. I guess Christ would be so proud that they are lying!

I know the dilemma of "born again" Christians. You all are probably thinking like @shdemdemi by saying: If these holy books are the divine word of God then everything in them must be true because the divine word of God is immutable truth, therefore if we can find one false statement, non-truth, LIE whatever you want to call it then we can know for sure that they are not the divine word of God. This is a cross that you have to bear and I understand that. As a result of this my understanding, I know my continuing to be labor the issues would be futile.

I recognized early that my thesis would not be popular because of the raw emotions religion evokes. However, My main goal is not to challenge people's faith but to help to restrain those who are hell bent on killing others for religious reasons. Let us join hands to make this world a better place devoid of religious extremism. No one should be killed for religious reasons.

I will leave you with the following food for thought:

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

Proverbs 26:25
When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I am prepared to believe WHATEVER it says, and to take it believing it to be the Word of God; for if it is not all true, it is not worth ANYTHING to me. It may be to you who is so wise that you can pick out the true from the false; but I am such a fool that I could not do that. The scripture says - Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

If we doubt God’s Word about one thing, we will have small confidence in another thing. Sincere faith in God must treat all God’s Word alike; for the faith, which accepts one word of God and rejects another is evidently not faith in God, but faith in our own judgment, faith in our own limited cognisance …

Okay guys, there is one unanimity in all your comments which is that I am missing the truth. However, no body has shown me this amorphous truth that I am missing. This charge presupposes that my postings on this thread are not true. We learn new things every day and I am not close minded. I am always willing to learn.

Therefore, the next phase for me is to throw up a challenge since no one has volunteered to show me this truth that I am missing, I would like to find out this missing truth. I would like you all to:

(a) point out what I have said on this thread that is not true with corresponding truth of the matter asserted.
(b) show me the truth that I don't seem to know about regarding the Bible.

No circular arguments and no issues that have been discussed ad nauseam should be raised like: Christ is God, No contradiction in the Bible, you just don't understand.

No cliches. Each comment must address both a and b above. I will sit back and wait for the truth to emerge and for commentators to show anything I said on the thread that is not true.

omonuan:

Thanks man, you are the first the first honest person to comment on the critical issues I have raised. As a good Christian one should not see white and call it black as many many have done so here. The truth is indestructible. The only thing I disagree with you is that you said that I lack Knowledge of the Truth after you said that most of the things I said are true. This is oxymoronic but I will give you kudos for not hiding under falsity. You have to admit that you can't be right and yet wrong in the same vain.

Nevertheless, I think I know what you are saying which has already be said by others and I have previously nullified. You are essentially saying that you need Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. It should not be so brother! This lack of understanding charge is all that has been level against me by the nay Sayers but no one has shown me a different way to understand other than asking me to just read the Bible and be brainwashed. I would reiterate what I said before, which is that the Bible should not be studied under duress and it is not a cypher. It is written in simple terms to my understanding. The difference between me and many others is that I am not under the spell of "stomach inspired agent who calls himself a pastor." I have been there done that!

Contrary to your assertions, I have sought knowledge and truth in the Bible and I have found them. However, I would be willing to learn methods of reading devoid of brainwashing if there is any such method. Please join the effort to stop the loonies from making the world hell. Thanks brother for your understanding.

I am no longer going to argue with people who are deliberately avoiding the truth right in their faces, the Contradictions are there for anyone to see. It is okay if the so called born again Christians want to lie for Christ sake. It is up to them.

I know the dilemma of "born again" Christians. You all are probably thinking like @shdemdemi by saying: If these holy books are the divine word of God then everything in them must be true because the divine word of God is immutable truth, therefore if we can find one false statement, non-truth, LIE whatever you want to call it then we can know for sure that they are not the divine word of God. This is a cross that you have to bear and I understand that. As a result of this my understanding, I know my continuing to be labor the issues would be futile.

I recognized early that my thesis would not be popular because of the raw motions religion evokes. However, My main goal is not to challenge people's faith but to help to restrain those who are hell bent on killing others for religious reasons. Let us join hands to make this world a better place devoid of religious extremism. No one should be killed for religious reasons.

I will leave you with the following food for thought:

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

Proverbs 26:25
When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

my brother there is a dif atween truth and 'THE TRUTH', 'THE TRUTH' is the measuring tape by which every truth is measured, and for truth to be truth it must pass tro every standard provided by 'THE TRUTH. Now i cant quarel with ur undastanding, interpretation and emphasis on the bible bc more than any book in history, the bible is the most abused and as a christian we dont emphasis so much on the letter of the bible for obviours reasons.as for killings odas who do not share ur faith, the real christian can NOT DO THAT. Now my brother no matter the amount of the bible you know, if you dont know THE TRUTH it will be very dificult for you to appreciate even ur own knowledge of the bible. I just wish u'd know THE TRUTH for the bible says, ".....the truth shall make you free". God bless.

omonuan:

Thanks man, you are the first the first honest person to comment on the critical issues I have raised. As a good Christian one should not see white and call it black as many many have done so here. The truth is indestructible. The only thing I disagree with you is that you said that I lack Knowledge of the Truth after you said that most of the things I said are true. This is oxymoronic but I will give you kudos for not hiding under falsity. You have to admit that you can't be right and yet wrong in the same vain.

Nevertheless, I think I know what you are saying which has already be said by others and I have previously nullified. You are essentially saying that you need Holy Spirit to understand the Bible. It should not be so brother! This lack of understanding charge is all that has been level against me by the nay Sayers but no one has shown me a different way to understand other than asking me to just read the Bible and be brainwashed. I would reiterate what I said before, which is that the Bible should not be studied under duress and it is not a cypher. It is written in simple terms to my understanding. The difference between me and many others is that I am not under the spell of "stomach inspired agent who calls himself a pastor." I have been there done that!

Contrary to your assertions, I have sought knowledge and truth in the Bible and I have found them. However, I would be willing to learn methods of reading devoid of brainwashing if there is any such method. Please join the effort to stop the loonies from making the world hell. Thanks brother for your understanding.

I am no longer going to argue with people who are deliberately avoiding the truth right in their faces, the Contradictions are there for anyone to see. It is okay if the so called born again Christians want to lie for Christ sake. It is up to them.

I know the dilemma of "born again" Christians. You all are probably thinking like @shdemdemi by saying: If these holy books are the divine word of God then everything in them must be true because the divine word of God is immutable truth, therefore if we can find one false statement, non-truth, LIE whatever you want to call it then we can know for sure that they are not the divine word of God. This is a cross that you have to bear and I understand that. As a result of this my understanding, I know my continuing to be labor the issues would be futile.

I recognized early that my thesis would not be popular because of the raw motions religion evokes. However, My main goal is not to challenge people's faith but to help to restrain those who are hell bent on killing others for religious reasons. Let us join hands to make this world a better place devoid of religious extremism. No one should be killed for religious reasons.

I will leave you with the following food for thought:

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

Proverbs 26:25
When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

the problem with most christians is that they DONT KNOW THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, but it contains the word of God, so the fallability or it infallability does not change or cancell the word of God and the fact remains that Jesus is lord.. So i want you to undastand that as a christian our values and what matters to us is Jesus and the life he gave us, thats why, if you like use bible as toilet paper, abuse Jesus, ridicule everything about christianity, the only thing we'd have for u is genuine pity, love and prayer, bc we know u dont know. For the scriptures u quoted on trying every spirit and not just accepting every thing, am with you. Remain blessed.

christemmbassey: the problem with most christians is that they DONT KNOW THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, but it contains the word of God, so the fallability or it infallability does not change or cancell the word of God and the fact remains that Jesus is lord.. So i want you to undastand that as a christian our values and what matters to us is Jesus and the life he gave us, thats why, if you like use bible as toilet paper, abuse Jesus, ridicule everything about christianity, the only thing we'd have for u is genuine pity, love and prayer, bc we know u dont know. For the scriptures u quoted on trying every spirit and not just accepting every thing, am with you. Remain blessed.

Your essay is not really responsive to my questions, please look at my questions again and answer them. We can't go back to arguing what has been discussed ad nauseam. This phase for me is to be pointed to (a) anything I said on this thread that is not true and the correspond truth of the matter asserted. (b) Show me the elusive "TRUTH"

If these cannot be done please spare me the platitudes and diatribes. I no longer wanna hear that I don't know the TRUTH, I have gone beyond that. I can't dispute that I don't know the truth if I don't know the standard by which I am being judged. I want the hidden Truth to be revealed to me. And anybody that goes outside the boundaries set henceforth will not get any response from. I agree that the TRUTH shall set me free but how do I know the TRUTH if it is a CYPHER hidden from me?

I am now in search of the TRUTH and I really need those who know it to show it to me after they've shown me what I said that is NOT THE TRUTH with the corresponding TRUTH.

I NEED TRUTH GALORE NOW! No clichés, no platitudes and rehashing same issues. You guys should be throwing out the TRUTH left, right and center. I want this Thread to contain nothing but the TRUTH from this point on.

omonuan:

Your essay is not really responsive to my questions, please look at my questions again and answer them. We can't go back to arguing what has been discussed ad nauseam. This phase for me is to be pointed to (a) anything I said on this thread that is not true and the correspond truth of the matter asserted. (b) Show me the elusive "TRUTH"

If these cannot be done please spear me the platitudes and diatribes. I no longer wanna hear that I don't know the TRUTH, I have gone beyond that. I can't dispute that I don't know the truth if I don't know the standard by which I am being judged. I want the hidden Truth to be revealed to me. And anybody that goes outside the boundaries set henceforth will not get any response from. I agree that the TRUTH shall set me free but how do I know the TRUTH if it is a CYPHER hidden from me?

I am now in search of the TRUTH and I really need those who know it to show it to me after they've shown me what I said that is NOT THE TRUTH with the corresponding TRUTH.

I NEED TRUTH GALORE NOW! No clichés, no platitudes and rehashing same issues. You guys should be throwing out the TRUTH left, right and center. I want this Thread to contain nothing but the TRUTH from this point on.

you walk by sight, I walk by faith. You want proofs for God's divinity, it is beyond you my friend. If you cannot understand or phantom the trinity of God, what can you possibly understand.

omonuan:

Your essay is not really responsive to my questions, please look at my questions again and answer them. We can't go back to arguing what has been discussed ad nauseam. This phase for me is to be pointed to (a) anything I said on this thread that is not true and the correspond truth of the matter asserted. (b) Show me the elusive "TRUTH"

If these cannot be done please spear me the platitudes and diatribes. I no longer wanna hear that I don't know the TRUTH, I have gone beyond that. I can't dispute that I don't know the truth if I don't know the standard by which I am being judged. I want the hidden Truth to be revealed to me. And anybody that goes outside the boundaries set henceforth will not get any response from. I agree that the TRUTH shall set me free but how do I know the TRUTH if it is a CYPHER hidden from me?

I am now in search of the TRUTH and I really need those who know it to show it to me after they've shown me what I said that is NOT THE TRUTH with the corresponding TRUTH.

I NEED TRUTH GALORE NOW! No clichés, no platitudes and rehashing same issues. You guys should be throwing out the TRUTH left, right and center. I want this Thread to contain nothing but the TRUTH from this point on.

Jesus Christ(the word-jn1) is ,THE TRUTH'. Jn17. Jn14:6 "i am the way. The truth and the life...... "This was the true light that lighteɗ every man that cometh to the world" jn1' "in him is hid all the TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE" col2:3'

christemmbassey: Jesus Christ(the word-jn1) is ,THE TRUTH'. Jn17. Jn14:6 "i am the way. The truth and the life...... "This was the true light that lighteɗ every man that cometh to the world" jn1' "in him is hid all the TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE" col2:3'

Okay we are getting somewhere with your own version of TRUTH but how does this relate to (a) showing me what I have said on the thread that is not the TRUTH.
(b) how did you conclude that this is THE TRUTH that I am Missing? Also, is this the only TRUTH in the World or are there OTHER TRUTHS?

If John 17, John 14:6 ARE YOUR TRUTHS How DO they SQUARE with the Following:

Matthew 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire. (Words of Jesus.)

Matthew 23:17 Ye fools and blind. (Words of Jesus.)


Mark 13:31, Matthew 24:35
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."

John 5:31
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid."

John 8:14
"Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid."

John 8:18
"I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:35-36
"For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law — a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Luke 12:50-53
"Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."

1 John 4:19-21
"We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, 'I love God,' yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother."

Mathew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.


Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mathew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."

Mathew:16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

SHALL WE TAKE THESE ON A FACE VALUE OR DO WE NEED ASSISTANCE FROM HOLY GHOST AS USUAL?


Reconcile these for me please and ARE THESE TRUE SINCE THEY ALSO CAME FROM CHRIST? or Should we just ignore these? I know that you are a self acclaimed TRUTH Verifier For CHRIST and I look forward to your explanations.

Matthew 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire. (Words of Jesus.)

Matthew 23:17 Ye fools and blind. (Words of Jesus.)

Do you know of anything called the mosaic law, if you don't go find out. Christ came to fulfil that law with his life but there were some legalists of the mosaic law who Christ was gently bringing out of the law of Moses. He was making them understand the contents of the law are valid until he fulfils the requirement of the law.

You also have to understand Christ was man and at the same time God. He was under the mosaic law in the flesh but not as God. In Mathew 23;17, Christ was speaking as an authority above the law of Moses(He is sovereign)speaking about the Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees.

We can go on and on with putting all your contradictions right.

John 5:31
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid."

John 8:14
"Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid."

John 8:18
"I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."


31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

Who testifies in his favour? He was still referring to himself. The Jewish people understood what he was saying, their problem with it was 'he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God'. All they needed was to believe, Christ said if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” but till date some legalists still find it hard to believe thereby leading themselves to destruction. All in all, Christ speaks as a man and as God, there is no contradiction only if you can learn these things.

There are people who do not follow instructions. However,, I would like to emphasize again that I am no longer pursuing the contradiction angle. I need the Elusive TRUTH and if you don't have anything to tell me about the Truth, I won't respond to you.

The TRUTH is my Watch word now as that is all I am interested. NO Platitudes and NO Circular Arguments. JUST PLAIN TRUTH! No name calling

For those that are still interested in contradiction go back to my previous postings on this issue.I know now that I can cite thousands of verses until thy kingdom come and those who are stuck with only faith will never be convinced by facts. For me a debate over faith vs. facts is futile because faith has no empirical base but fact does. Enough said.

IF you don't HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT TRUTH AND WHAT I HAVE SAID THAT IS FALSE DO NOT EXPECT MY REPLY

omonuan:

Okay we are getting somewhere with your own version of TRUTH but how does this relate to (a) showing me what I have said on the thread that is not the TRUTH.
(b) how did you conclude that this is THE TRUTH that I am Missing? Also, is this the only TRUTH in the World or are there OTHER TRUTHS?

If John 17, John 14:6 ARE YOUR TRUTHS How DO they SQUARE with the Following:

Matthew 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire. (Words of Jesus.)

Matthew 23:17 Ye fools and blind. (Words of Jesus.)


Mark 13:31, Matthew 24:35
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."

John 5:31
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid."

John 8:14
"Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid."

John 8:18
"I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:35-36
"For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law — a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."

Luke 12:50-53
"Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."

1 John 4:19-21
"We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, 'I love God,' yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother."

Mathew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.


Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Mathew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."

Mathew:16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

SHALL WE TAKE THESE ON A FACE VALUE OR DO WE NEED ASSISTANCE FROM HOLY GHOST AS USUAL?


Reconcile these for me please and ARE THESE TRUE SINCE THEY ALSO CAME FROM CHRIST? or Should we just ignore these? I know that you are a self acclaimed TRUTH Verifier For CHRIST and I look forward to your explanations.

i have told you. Jesus Christ is the way. The TRUTH and the life. Jn 14:6. If you dont BELIEVE this. It will b very dificult to help you' you read the bible but we STUDY THE WORD (JESUS) OF GOD, and u can only study what u KNOW. Even the writings of Shakespear can not b undastood by just anybody. From observed fact. U are NOT A CHRISTIAN. U are like Nicodemus in john 3. Who claimed to be a teacher of the law but did not know the truth. Eventhough Jesus was seated right b4 him' Jesus Christ is THE TRUTH, he is the measuring instrument. The YARD STICK and the standard by which every other truth must be measured' if u dont know/accept/confess/acknowledge him, the bible says, you are condemned' God bless'

omonuan: There are people who do not follow instructions. However,, I would like to emphasize again that I am no longer pursuing the contradiction angle. I need the Elusive TRUTH and if you don't have anything to tell me about the Truth, I won't respond to you.

The TRUTH is my Watch word now as that is all I am interested. NO Platitudes and NO Circular Arguments. JUST PLAIN TRUTH! No name calling

For those that are still interested in contradiction go back to my previous postings on this issue.I know now that I can cite thousands of verses until thy kingdom come and those who are stuck with only faith will never be convinced by facts. For me a debate over faith vs. facts is futile because faith has no empirical base but fact does. Enough said.

IF you don't HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT TRUTH AND WHAT I HAVE SAID THAT IS FALSE DO NOT EXPECT MY REPLY

Jesus Christ is the truth. The scriptures says "IN HIM IS HID ALL THE TREASURES OF WISDOM AND ƘNOWLEDGE" col2:3. If u dont know Jesus, how can u get the wisdom and knowledge needed to undastand his word? Remember, if you know THE TRUTH(JESUS). He Jesus(the truth) shall make you free