SNCOQ3:
Your God&god idea is polytheism.

Judges and angels in the bible were also referred to as gods, you want proof ? Big difference between god and GOD who we know represents the one and only Ancient of days , the creator of heaven and earth.

Your 3 god act is no longer tenable and should be binned.

^ So which is Jesus? A judge or an angel or another deity lesser than God(the Father). After picking one, pls do explain how it is consistent with rest of scriptures that is explicit about the divinity of Jesus.
----------------------
I edited the comment you quoted while u're at it; pls look it up. Sorry about that.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

^ Amen to that.

Image123: 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

@frosbel Who is the TRUE GOD in this context? @Image amen

frosbel: - Who asked his angels to pay obeisance to Jesus Christ and who exalted Jesus.

- In Rev 1:1 - Why did Jesus get a revelation from GOD

- Why is God the head of Christ in 1 Corinthians 11:3

And I asked you where you drew the line between worship and obeisance, you ran away. Now you are asking me who asked the angels to worship God. I think Hebrews 1 is a very exciting chapter of the bible. Let me quote it for you. I'll highlight God the Father's words to Jesus Christ. Happy reading.

Heb 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.
Heb 1:3 He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Heb 1:4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
Heb 1:10 And, "In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like clothing;
Heb 1:12 like a cloak you will roll them up, and like clothing they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never end."
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
Heb 1:14 Are not all angels spirits in the divine service, sent to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

Now you have moved the goal post , because you know that it is impossible to provide this imaginary evidence, it simply is not there , and has been derived from the formulation of an extra biblical concept by Greek pagan philosophers parading as church fathers over a 300 year period.

You have to wonder why God made such an easy concept so mystifying to his children, which is why when they attempt to explain it they end up confusing themselves and others.


Trinity has been debunked, stop deceiving yourself.

I talk to people out of this forum including family and they are beginning to easily see through the layers of deception used to construct and defend this pagan polytheistic belief.

You my friend believe in a 3 god god, I believe in one God and follow Jesus in saying :

"Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD." - Mark 12:29

I have not shifted any goalposts. I say Yes and Amen. The Lord my God is One. This does not contradict Trinity at all.

Mr anony: This is what the Trinity means in short form

1. God is One
2. The Father is God
3. The Son is God
4. The Holy Spirit is God

5. The Father is not the Son
6. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
7. The Son is not the Father
8. The Son is not the Holy Spirit
9. The Holy Spirit is not the Son
10. The Holy Spirit is not the Father
11. God is one being and three persons.


I challenge anyone to produce any bible verse/verses that refutes the above statements. And please when you do, point out which of the statements you are trying to refute and how your bible verses refutes it/them.

I await your responses


P/s: If you don't believe the bible is the word of God, please don't bother commenting. Your opinion is not needed here

Mr anony:
SMH. Did you read the op at all?

Nobody is against those in blue. you can't answer my question because what you believe in is faulty. You have to get the definition of trinity well before we start looking for scriptures for you so you dont just cheery pick to support this doctrine of men. From 2-4, we have 3 persons who are God individually(ie each person is a God). how can trinity come and tell us that these 3 Gods are one God. Can you interpret the english in 1Cor 8:6 without jumping where it says that One God is the Father? ie if you want to learn, 1st get the right definition of trinity.

@mr anony i bow for this verse see clean clear speech by God to Jesus Who is clearly called God

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he [God] says,"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.

Luke 5:21

“Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

And again Luke 7:49

"Who is this who even forgives sins?"

hisblud: @mr anony i bow for this verse see clean clear speech by God to Jesus Who is clearly called God

Oh yeah bro, check out this one as well :

" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9

- So Jesus had a GOD ? hmmmm

- And Jesus was exalted above his fellows ? hmm Does God have fellows ? hmm

About Heb1:8 , small hint- original languages never contained capital letters, all capitalized words were at the discretion of the translators who were in most cases but not all , Trinity sympathizers.

Indeed only God can forgive sins, but he also gave this authority to his SON who is actually Messiah the Christ and future judge of the world.

And not to forget Jesus gave the apostles authority to forgive sins in some cases :

"If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." - John 20:23

Mr anony:


I have not shifted any goalposts. I say Yes and Amen. The Lord my God is One. This does not contradict Trinity at all.

Not so fast , your Lord and GOD is 3 not ONE.

frosbel: Indeed only God can forgive sins, but he also gave this authority to his SON who is actually Messiah the Christ and future judge of the world.

And not to forget Jesus gave the apostles authority to forgive sins in some cases :

"If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." - John 20:23

By this scripture we can 100 percent infer that the apostles are GOD too.....

Trinitarians barely understands what it means when someone is given authority to do something.........


......


I have told them......the more they try to equate Jesus with his God and Father the more they are equating man(all of us) with Jesus........

Jesus once said Just as the Father sent Him,so he is sending his disciples........

It said God is greater than Jesus that is why he could send Jesus,but trinitarians say NOOOO........that Jesus was just the humble person amongst the trio combination(maybe the Father and the holy spirit were proud..) that's why he came to the earth......

Now Jesus has sent us,I believe Jesus is not greater than us...

.......
Or mayb we are just humble that's why we obey Jesus' words....

ijawkid:

By this scripture we can 100 percent infer that the apostles are GOD too.....

Trinitarians barely understands what it means when someone is given authority to do something.........


......


I have told them......the more they try to equate Jesus with his God and Father the more they are equating man(all of us) with Jesus........

Jesus once said Just as the Father sent Him,so he is sending his disciples........

It said God is greater than Jesus that is why he could send Jesus,but trinitarians say NOOOO........that Jesus was just the humble person amongst the trio combination(maybe the Father and the holy spirit were proud..) that's why he came to the earth......

Now Jesus has sent us,I believe Jesus is not greater than us...

.......
Or mayb we are just humble that's why we obey Jesus' words....

Don't mind those traditionalists !

Arrrrrggggh!

Boomark: Nobody is against those in blue.

good to know

you can't answer my question because what you believe in is faulty.

lol, really? My op answers your question easily

Let me show you:

Boomark:
That is what am trying to get.
And stop dodging the
question. Cos it is very obvious
you seems not to know what
to say.
So are you saying that
1 the Father as a person is not God - 2. The Father is God
2 Jesus as a person is not God - 3. The Son is God
3 the Holy spirit as a person is not God. -4. The Holy Spirit is God
Like you said, the 3 persons are not 3 Gods. - I said the three persons are one God
Don't tell me am not understanding it or run
away. Just Answer me so i can
get it.

You have to get the definition of trinity well before we start looking for scriptures for you so you dont just cheery pick to support this doctrine of men. From 2-4, we have 3 persons who are God individually(ie each person is a God). how can trinity come and tell us that these 3 Gods are one God.

Wrong again, Three Persons are not each "a God" rather the three Persons are God. That is simply how God is: God exists in three Persons.

Can you interpret the english in 1Cor 8:6 without jumping where it says that One God is the Father? ie if you want to learn, 1st get the right definition of trinity.

Happily, Now compare the following two verses

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Now, compare the contexts

1. In 1Corinthians, Paul affirms the Oneness of God a in contrast to the polytheist systems around

2. In Deuteronomy, Moses affirms the Oneness of God a in contrast to the polytheist systems around

Now the question before you is why would Paul take the pains to mention the Father and the Son in contrast to polytheism? Was he referring to two gods, No he wasn't.
Also pay close attention to the parts of 1Corinthians 8:6 that I highlighted in bold. What message do you think Paul is passing across there? He is giving an explanation for how and why all things came to be in contrast to how a polytheist would use multiple gods to explain his/her existence.

frosbel:

Oh yeah bro, check out this one as well :

" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9

- So Jesus had a GOD ? hmmmm

- And Jesus was exalted above his fellows ? hmm Does God have fellows ? hmm

About Heb1:8 , small hint- original languages never contained capital letters, all capitalized words were at the discretion of the translators who were in most cases but not all , Trinity sympathizers.

Interesting, so the translators used their discretion to insert capital G abi? How do you know then that it was supposed to be small g if not by your "discretion"?

Your attempt at obfuscation comes back to bite you now doesn't it?

frosbel: Not so fast , your Lord and GOD is 3 not ONE.

Lolololol, this is just too funny.Why don't you just come out and say it? You don't know what trinity is.

Deep Sight:
Arrrrrggggh!

wetin dey bite you?

Mr anony:
good to know

lol, really? My op answers your question easily

Let me show you:



Wrong again, Three Persons are not each "a God" rather the three Persons are God. That is simply how God is: God exists in three Persons.


Happily, Now compare the following two verses

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Now, compare the contexts

1. In 1Corinthians, Paul affirms the Oneness of God a in contrast to the polytheist systems around

2. In Deuteronomy, Moses affirms the Oneness of God a in contrast to the polytheist systems around

Now the question before you is why would Paul take the pains to mention the Father and the Son in contrast to polytheism? Was he referring to two gods, No he wasn't.
Also pay close attention to the parts of 1Corinthians 8:6 that I highlighted in bold. What message do you think Paul is passing across there? He is giving an explanation for how and why all things came to be in contrast to how a polytheist would use multiple gods to explain his/her existence.

Do i need to explain the English for you to understand. It says,
1 we have one God, the Father and all things came from Him.
2 we have one Lord, Jesus and all things exist through him

If you are still confused about the issue of one Lord, you will also be confused about the issue of Jesus having all authority and power. Which to you will mean that the Father no longer have authority or that He is under Jesus authority. Mind you, it did not say they shared the power and authority. Read 1Cor 15:27-28 to help you understand it well.

Jesus was made Lord by the Father after his resurrection so Deut 6:4 you quoted is out of context.

Boomark:

Do i need to explain the English for you to understand. It says,
1 we have one God, the Father and all things came from Him.
2 we have one Lord, Jesus and all things exist through him

If you are still confused about the issue of one Lord, you will also be confused about the issue of Jesus having all authority and power. Which to you will mean that the Father no longer have authority or that He is under Jesus authority. Mind you, it did not say they shared the power and authority. Read 1Cor 15:27-28 to help you understand it well.

Jesus was made Lord by the Father after his resurrection so Deut 6:4 you quoted is out of context.

Bro, forget all the arguments. Pick up your bible to see what the entire story of this sacred book is all about, it all starts with Christ and ends with Christ. Stories from the beginning of man and during the angelic conflict before man points to the gospel of this same Christ. Trying to separate What the scripture calls the only begotten son from the father lacks depth of the entire picture of the bible as a whole.

shdemidemi:

Bro, forget all the arguments. Pick up your bible to see what the entire story of this sacred book is all about, it all starts with Christ and ends with Christ. Stories from the beginning of man and during the angelic conflict before man points to the gospel of this same Christ. Trying to separate What the scripture calls the only begotten son from the father lacks depth of the entire picture of the bible as a whole.

Bro, everything is about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Acts 3:13. You can't insert trinity in that verse. His righteous Servant, our Lord Jesus came to reconcile us back to God Himself, Col 1:19-20.

Jesus called this God of gods his God, Rev 3:12 but you don't know why(not my fault). Jesus is subject to this God even when this God has given him all authority and power. With this power and authority, he will conquer all things as a representative of his God and submit everything to his God, whom we all serve so that God will be all in all, 1Cor 15:27-28.

If you see any single fault in these things point it out. It is not about reading the story about Jesus Christ. Know the purpose of his coming.

shdemidemi:

Bro, forget all the arguments. Pick up your bible to see what the entire story of this sacred book is all about, it all starts with Christ and ends with Christ. Stories from the beginning of man and during the angelic conflict before man points to the gospel of this same Christ. Trying to separate What the scripture calls the only begotten son from the father lacks depth of the entire picture of the bible as a whole.

Bro, everything is about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Acts 3:13. You can't insert trinity in that verse. His righteous Servant, our Lord Jesus came to reconcile us back to God Himself, Col 1:19-20.

Jesus called this God of gods his God, Rev 3:12 but you don't know why(not my fault). Jesus is subject to this God even when this God has given him all authority and power. With this power and authority, he will conquer all things as a representative of his God and submit everything to his God, whom we all serve so that God will be all in all, 1Cor 15:27-28.

If you see any single fault in these things point it out. It is not about reading the story about Jesus Christ. Know the purpose of his coming.

frosbel:

Oh yeah bro, check out this one as well :

" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9

- So Jesus had a GOD ? hmmmm

- And Jesus was exalted above his fellows ? hmm Does God have fellows ? hmm

About Heb1:8 , small hint- original languages never contained capital letters, all capitalized words were at the discretion of the translators who were in most cases but not all , Trinity sympathizers.

aight. answer this question

1. who was that verse refering to in that context? Jesus, Angel or God?
2. must your reasoning and logic be the determinant of how a verse is interpreted/translated?
3. do you have all the deep mystery of divinity revealed to you?
4. do you accept the bible by faith or are you questioning what is written?

Boomark:

Bro, everything is about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Acts 3:13. You can't insert trinity in that verse. His righteous Servant, our Lord Jesus came to reconcile us back to God Himself, Col 1:19-20.

Jesus called this God of gods his God, Rev 3:12 but you don't know why(not my fault). Jesus is subject to this God even when this God has given him all authority and power. With this power and authority, he will conquer all things as a representative of his God and submit everything to his God, whom we all serve so that God will be all in all, 1Cor 15:27-28.

If you see any single fault in these things point it out. It is not about reading the story about Jesus Christ. Know the purpose of his coming.

Who is gonna be the king of kings and Lord of Lords that would reign forever after rapture?
If you say it is all about God of Abraham, who exactly is the actor/subject of the entire scripture? To whom was everything made? for whom was it made? To whom would everything be? who holds everything together as one?

shdemidemi:

Who is gonna be the king of kings and Lord of Lords that would reign forever after rapture?

Jesus. Unless you will also say that he is a king over the Father, if not, then their is an exception. Even after he's being given all the powers and authority, he is still subject to God and there is an exception of God. 1Cor 15:27-28.

If you say it is all about God of Abraham, who exactly is the actor/subject of the entire scripture?

Hebrew 1:1. Do you see how God spoke through His prophets and His Son. They are all representatives of God. All are sent to serve Him.

To whom was everything made? for whom was it made? To whom would everything be? who holds everything together as one?

Jesus. He is an heir. He inherited what belongs to the Father and not what initially belongs to him. Do you disagree?

striktlymi:

quite a picture there...

Boomark:

Jesus. Unless you will also say that he is a king over the Father, if not, then their is an exception. Even after he's being given all the powers and authority, he is still subject to God and there is an exception of God. 1Cor 15:27-28.

I believe that is what the natural mind tries to think out/ grasp. If you don't want to be left with such paradox, the solution to the puzzle is seeing that the king that will reign is actually 'one' with the father.

Boomark:
Jesus. He is an heir. He inherited what belongs to the Father and not what initially belongs to him. Do you disagree?

an heir is a person who inherits what another has after his death. For Christ to get His inheritance has he is entitled to, would God have to die?

frosbel:

Oh yeah bro, check out this one as well :

" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9

- So Jesus had a GOD ? hmmmm

- And Jesus was exalted above his fellows ? hmm Does God have fellows ? hmm

About Heb1:8 , small hint- original languages never contained capital letters, all capitalized words were at the discretion of the translators who were in most cases but not all , Trinity sympathizers.

Lol. Of course, Jesus had "a God" just as the Father had "a God" that He spoke to in such a reverent manner as recorded there in Hebrews 1 (a text I should point out that even the JW Bible just could not make go away and Boomark was so stumped by).

Of course, Jesus was exalted above His fellows, He was a man too, was He not? He came to become Man and bear man's sin and pay man's price and win back man's intended place with God, did He not?

Of course, as far as the all-wise, all-knowing frosbel is concerned, the Scriptures have translational errors as long as they uphold the Deity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. They're only free of error when frosbel can make them say what he prefers to hear.

shdemidemi: I believe that is what the natural mind tries to think out/ grasp. If you don't want to be left with such paradox, the solution to the puzzle is seeing that the king that will reign is actually 'one' with the father.

The king that has been appointed to reign recognizes someone as his superior who gave him rulership and kingdoms.......

It is obvious that the giver is not under the authority of the givee,while the givee remains under the authority of the giver....

No twisting can get you out of this....

shdemidemi:
an heir is a person who inherits what another has after his death. For Christ to get His inheritance has he is entitled to, would God have to die?

Romans 8:17

New International Version
(©2011)
Now if we are children, then we
are heirs--heirs of God and co-
heirs with Christ, if indeed we
share in his sufferings in order
that we may also share in his glory.


I guess God would have to die well well since we are co-heirs with Christ.....

To call you mumu dey hungry me.......

@op, I guess this contention just won't go away, will it? In fact, it won't at all until the Son of Man returns in His Kingdom.

I continue to insist that a true child of God will never abide in the error that Jesus is not God or that He was not fully Man. While indeed it is not necessary for anyone to understand what the Trinity is (in fact, we never fully do until the Lord brings us into Glory with Him) to be saved, it is utterly impossible to claim membership of the House of God when you deny the very Cornerstone and Foundation of that House, that is, Jesus Christ, God the Word and Son of Man.

I may seem too hard and dogmatic about it, but there is a real reason that we are told to treat some people as heretics and have nothing more to do with them after having exhorted them concerning the Truth and this is no light matter. I reject any claim to brotherhood with me when the claimant rejects the very reason of that brotherhood. I reject every claim upon Christ when the claimant rejects the Identity of that Christ.

There are many that claim to be Christ, but the only One anointed and accepted by God is Jesus of Nazareth Who is God, blessed forever He is, and Who for His great Love toward us condescended to share our flesh and our destiny in order to redeem us back to Himself. I know no other Christ and will never accept any other or countenance any other doctrine.