CAMEROONPRIDE:
pretty good, I'm done with school for now, so I got more free time. What's your religion? And whats your view on paganism?

Am a Christian. I do not really know much about Paganism but everyone is free to believe in what they believe in.

fellis:
I never said I wanted a system of matriarchy, I dont know why you're bringing it up.

Because the only alternative to patriarchy is matriarchy.

The black american culture is another example of a culture that has changed from a patriarchy to a matriarchy within a few generations. It is also starting to share alot of characteristics with the Muoso in china

I'm trying not to be rude here fellis, so no offense, but women like you confirm why the natural state of humans is typically patriarchal. There are not many dominant men (or women) who sit around making excuses for their positions. Males and females are just wired differently

CAMEROONPRIDE:
Christianity is devil tho. You are omo-Yoruba right? And you don't know about paganism/Ifa? Humm. Can you marry a pagan?

Lol i was born and bred in the States and No i can not marry a Pagan or anyone of a different religion

fellis:
Would you like to live a life where you and your kind are seen as inferior or not as mentally
capable as other people? Would you like that?

There are very few people who actually think women are inferior to men

Alot of this is all in your head

queen_of_sheba: Lol i was born and bred in the States and No i can not marry a Pagan or anyone of a different religion

lwkd, , and different congregation?

CAMEROONPRIDE:
what if men were the best fit for the position? I mean are you asking for a balanced distribution no matter what?

Most of the time men are in a better position to lead and most of the time women are in a better position to lead. There are many attributes that make a good leader, wisdom, compassion, people skills etc.
These attributes can be found in any gender, male or female and they are not restricted to either one of them. If a man is a better candidate for leadership then he should lead. If a woman is a better candidate then he should lead.

Another thing I would like to know is do you think this pseudo male superiority or domination is institutionalized? I mean how many women themselves vote for another woman during elections? Where do you think that superiority comes from? Nature? Culture? Religion?[/ .
quote]
The reason why some women don't vote for other women in my opinion is inferiority complex. Those women have been brainwashed to believe that women can never rule as well as men so they don't support their fellow women ruling.
Where the whole superiority/inferiority thing started from I believe was in the past when males were the hunters and the providers for the home. They were the ones who provided the means of living for their families hence they had the final say; they were the bosses who decided what was done with the provisions they made available.
[quote]As for your definition, I have another question-example: if in my house I say : girls curfew 5pm and boys 11pm or no curfew, does that mean I think men are superior? Or I respect men more than females? Don't you think the society so much respect women that no matter the culture or the people involved we are always trying to protect you? i]

The leadership of any country should make provisions for protection of BOTH males and females. For instance the law enforcement or police take care of the safety of every person in a country, they provide equal amount of protection to every individual with no favouritism based on gender.
This is the way protection should be. The freedom of certain people should not be limited because you think they deserve special protection.

jesus chirst... wasnt the question about respect?

Before i leave, i want to point something out to everyone.

What fellis demonstrated right there ^ was a "strawman arugement." Which occurs when someone runs into an unrefutable point, but instead of admitting they are wrong they create similar but different point to refute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument

The poster asked fellis about respect, but she replied with a diatribe about how the state should protect every member equally. This is one of the worst kinds of logical fallacies and it is endemic among women.... it goes to show that men and women reason differently and patriarchy is the most natural form of higharchy.

You cannot run a country with that kind of reasoning skills.

CAMEROONPRIDE: what's your view on quota system?

I have never really thought about this.
I think its ok. Fixing a maximum price limit for imported goods prices would reduce importation and encourage local productivity.

CAMEROONPRIDE:

gtfo of my mind.
My thoughts exactly.

Yup.. after running into these logical fallacies over.. and over... and over... again for years, you loose the patience to be polite with these types of people.

Remember that "gender equality thread" i mentioned earlier? The feminists argued every single point i made with a logical fallacy.

CAMEROONPRIDE: [i][color=#990000]my questions haven't been answered. You said there were more males king than women, the question is what if at that time they were better placed than their women counterparts?

Better placed in what sense?

Cameroonpride, if I didn't answer your questions the way you expected it is because you didn't express yourself clearly enough. Maybe English is not your first language.
Ask whatever you are asking again, try to be clearer this time.

fellis:
I have never really thought about this.
I think its ok. Fixing a maximum price limit for imported goods prices would reduce importation and encourage local productivity.

my bad, I meant quota in public services. Like you are obliged to employ a specific percentage of women, black,ethnicity etc in an institution? The kind of quota we have in Nigeria or most African countries

CAMEROONPRIDE: good Onila is here, fellis last time I told her our traditional chief is actually a woman, guess what she said? Yup you guessed right. She said abomination , why do you think she said so? Do you think she's going to pick a woman to rule if she has the choice to do so? Are men responsible?

I wld

its just rare and impossible for a women to be a chief in their village In Nigeria

women are given titles but not chiefs

CAMEROONPRIDE: [i][color=#990000] my bad, I meant quota in public services. Like you are obliged to employ a specific percentage of women, black,ethnicity etc in an institution? The kind of quota we have in Nigeria or most African countries

Don't support it. Why? Because I think every individual should be given equal opportunity to attain any position. If the number of men or women is limited or the number of blacks and whites is limited in any institution, you run the risk of making it impossible for some individuals who would be best for the position to gain access to it.

CAMEROONPRIDE:

that's why you said abomination?

in Nigeria, chiefs are for elderly men in their family who have accomplished much

onila:

I wld

its just rare and impossible for a women to be a chief in their village In Nigeria

women are given titles but not chiefs

it is very possible. A part of Northern Nigeria, previously ruled by Aminah of Zaria is still ruled by a woman.

CAMEROONPRIDE:

Accomplish as in? Rich right? So they basically buy their titles.
Ps: it still doesn't explain your "abomination"

women are respected to an extent in our hometowns in Nigeria

but Nigeria still remains a patriarchal society esp when it comes to culture

fellis:
Don't support it. Why? Because I think every individual should be given equal opportunity to attain any position. If the number of men or women is limited or the number of blacks and whites is limited in any institution, you run the risk of making it impossible for some individuals who would be best for the position to gain access to it.

for you to shout men domination if men are more skilled Since you think this way, what if I feel more comfortable around men? I mean I only employ skilled men. Before you jump on me , I'm not talking about taking unskilled men over skilled women, I'm talking about two job seekers with the same skills but I only take men? Will you call that discrimination?

CAMEROONPRIDE:

000] what makes y
ou think the society sees men as superior?

I told you before what I thought the origin of the whole thing is ie males being providers and hence being heads/seen as superiors.
The belief has been further propagated or encouraged by religious teaching.

Does not allowing my daughters to go out means they are inferior? And that my sons are superior?

First of all, tell me why you think your daughters should not be allowed to go out while your sons should be allowed to go out.

Show me some examples? Do men look down on you in the street? Etc]

The attitude of most males led me to have this belief. Tell me cameroon pride, why do you ask this question?

CAMEROONPRIDE:

Accomplish as in? Rich right? So they basically buy their titles.
Ps: it still doesn't explain your "abomination"

well you have to be educated and be able make some positive impacts in your house and village

Most Nigerian chiefs are accomplished men in their individual rights

CAMEROONPRIDE: pagan, I need more arguments to show her that Islam is idolatry and that paganism is not idolatry, wow she basically screamed in horror when I told her I was pagan ... , we are hated my brother

hahahaha I hoped you enjoyed the reaction!

bro Paganism is idolatory. we do idolatory. however its not a bad thing. I've explained idolatory before.

ok now about islam.

THe Ka'aba was 100% Built by Pagans. There were many Ka'aba's across Arabia , back then. THe Chief ones were in Khazraj and Mecca.

What is a Ka'aba?

A Ka'aba is just any Arab Pagan Shrine.

After the Quraysh Tribe became the dominant merchant tribe of the region and settled in Mecca, due to its prosperity and the expanding of the city, the Ka'aba became the main Temple, whereas the one at Khazraj, Ta'if , etc.

Then all the Idols representing the different Spiritual Forces were brought from across Arabia and placed in the Ka'aba over the ages, thus making it the Chief Pilgrimage Center.'Now the various tribes did not have to go to different places necessairly to worship, because all the Gods were placed in the Ka'aba itself. it was like a library of Gods!

The Arab Religion like most Pagan religions, was closely related with Astronomy, Spatial Sciences and the study of Celestial Bodies (thus there is some referance to various facts about the Cosmology in the Qur'an, particularly the Moon, because muhammads tribe were great devotees of Lord Hubal, the Moon God.)

There were as many Idols in the Ka'aba as days of the year (365). This had astrological and religious significance.

Now when muhammad destroyed the Ka'ba, it was a pretence. He knew that we Pagans just use idols as physical manifestations to aid worship. However what we really worship is the Spirit of the Gods. We worship the Gods, not the idols. The idols just aid in concentrating on a particular spiritual forces, as there are many Gods.

Note: Muhammad himself belonged to the priestly class. His family was the Custodian of the Ka'ba and he was well versed in religious matters.
Best of all, he was a Pagan for the first 40 years of his life. The Qur'an completely skips this section of his life.

So since muhammad knew that the destruction of idols would not destroy the Gods, and since all the Gods spirits were already concentrated on the Ka'aba, due to the prior placement of idols representing each and every (known) God of the Arab Pantheon in the Ka'aba, the Ka'aba itself has acquired a sacred status that far outpowers those in other Arab cities.

so muhammad just destroyed the idols as a pretence. But he couldn't do the same to the Ka'aba because that would destroy the last vestige of the presence of God(s). So he turns the entire temple into an idol itself. (or else people cant concentrate if the dont direct their prayers to a physical point). Therefore, whatever muhammad says, even today all the muslims bow to the Ka'aba, the house of the Gods. The Ka'aba itself has acquired idol status.

Another thing of note is the circumabulation of the Ka'aba. THis is a Pagan custom. PAgans do circuits of idols or shrines across the world EVEN NOW.
Go to India and you will see Hindus circuiting their temple shrines 9 times or so (depends).


you dont see christians or jews circuiting anything. this is clearly a Pagan custom.


now in pre-islamic Arabia, it was a custom to place stones around the shrine. Usually prefferable were stones that fell from the sky (meteors), as they symbolized the Gifts of the Gods, etc.

Therefore muhammad kept the black stone in the Ka'aba and did not destroy it.

What muhammad basically did, was a very clever thing. HE maintained all the same Pagan practices. However instead of the plurality of Paganism, he singularized everything. Therfore he destoryed many other stones, but kept this one and I think another one Hajar Al-Aswad. There is no explanation to the other one.
Btw the hadeeth provides proof that the Black Stone is pre-islamic Pagan, from the story where all the Pagan CHiefs were haggling over who must place it and then muhammad himself comes and places it.

Also Ive been to a Pagan Arab temple in Bahrain and Ive confirmed this practice and structure of the Shrines.


now another thing you can mention is the Satanic Verses. These are a small number of Pagan verses that were temporarily included in the Qur'an by the islamic prophet muhammad, only to be later removed. These versed can bring great shame to any muslim as it shows how sly and hypocritical muhammad was. Recently it gained momentum with the release of Salman Rushdie's Novel "Satanic Verses", after which there were widespread protests by muslims and the issuing of fatwa on them. Narratives derived from hadith involving these verses can be read in, among other places, the biographies of respected early islamic sholars like Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd (who was a scribe of Waqidi), al-Tabarī, and Ibn Ishaq .

In its essential form, the story reports that muhammad longed to convert his kinsmen and neighbors of Mecca to islam. As he was reciting Sūra an-Najm, considered a revelation by the angel Gabriel, he became tempted him to utter the following lines after verses 19 and 20:

[size=16pt]Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-‘Uzzá
and Manāt, the third, the other?
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.[/size]

Allāt, al-'Uzzā and Manāt were three goddesses worshipped by the Meccans. They were the daughters of Allah. muhammad clearly tried to incorporate the 3 Goddesses who were interestingly , symbolic daughter of the Creator God Allah. After this, it is a well-known incident whereby all the Pagan Meccans become happy that muhammad prayed to their Gods, and then they joined the muslims in SAlat (again Salat is a Pagan form of prayer here, or else Pagans wouldn't do it.) Then they went home happily. These are from the original Hadeeths as compiled int the early years of islam in the 1st and 2nd centuries of islam. Any recent hadeeths after that are all fake.

later on the story was changed by embrassed muslims and by the the 13th-14th centuries, many islamic scholars tried to inlude the story of satan and how he tempted muhammad to invoke the Pagan Godesses. However this didnt work and brought more embarasment to muslims, for the follwing reasons:

- by muhammad allowing for the intercession of the three Pagan Goddesses, they eroded the authority and omnipotence of Allah.

-muhammad’s revelation appears to have been based on his desire to soften the threat to the deities of the people, which resulted in Pagans praying alongside muslims.

-muhammad is supposed to be a prophet, a man of God, a perfect man like a jesus. therefore his making mistakes like these make him a normal human and nothing divine about him. just a treacherous liar, who used differet tricks to gain converts.

CAMEROONPRIDE: you see our life , she just said she's afraid of me

wear mask, leaves, paint and raffia, and then enter her room at night.