vivianc: Biolabee, what's my name doing on That photograph? I jusT saw iT now.

ask dayokanu who wants to do a deliverance with you ohhhh

jidegirl12:

Una don spoil


Maybe cos I'm busy here but I haven't read any holier than thou comment on this thread..... That's one thing about going against immorality , the opposing argument ALWAYS come across directive and 'perfect' ... There's no other way to give 'constructive' advice against premarital sex - ''throttle& brake quarterly service'' for assurance- but except quoting the bible /Qoran to prove y'all clamouring for immorality - and for the last time NO we don't have to be onila ( God bless her) before we can firmly go against it.. So I don't see any Hypocrisy at play here.

And for the umpteenth time there's NO alternative, do it or abstain from a deliberate sin-WAIT.

@procedure... exactly..As long as you are legally joined before God and your loved ones, you may as well resume shagging for all you care. All other ceremony may follow .

I'd rather not comment on other points you raised tho.
Cheers.

Cool, and i respect your point of view. I just think raising passages to prove a point and taking the moral high ground when you are guilty of same is hypocritical. The fact that it happened 20years ago, doesnt change the fact that it happened. However, i drop the matter now.

Chineke God
The thread is up to 17 pages?
I have a whole 5 pages to read

dayokanu:

ANV - Association of Nigerian Virgins


http://www..com/talk/topic,29648.0.html

Left ro right

baby_123, Efemena and vivianc

[img]http://www..com/talk/photo.jpg?action=dlattach&topic=29648.0&attach=16524&image.jpg[/img]

Dayo, you nor well o!

Na which kind title be dat?? I nor want abeg. I cast, bind, reject am, etc.

Infact, infact eh... ***throttles Dayo's neck...***

deols:

And what if I am? If people can say the evils they do loud and clear, I am of the opinion that the good be told louder and clearer. I have aunts, cousins and friends who got married as virgins.

If they can do it, every other person can.

Careful now there, girl. What 'evils' are you referring to here? Who made you judge, jury and executioner of people's life choices?

It's interesting to see a non-married girl 'dishing' out marriage advice to the married ones. I laugh in Greek!

I sincerely hope 'steadfast virgins' like you don't have to contend with situations where in a desperate bid to preserve your saintly-non-test-driving-status pre-marriage, you end up having to endure the gnawing loneliness that arises from imposed sex.ual hunger from a non-responsive spouse.

But then again, looks like your moral values will keep you warm at night when you find that your sex.ual needs are been neglected. Having said that, no one here is bound to comply by your yardstick of morality. If your stringent views worked well for your aunts, cousins and friends, good on them. But you aren't discussing with your aunts, cousins and friends on this forum. You're discussing with strangers, people you don't know jack about.

Look, marriage isn't a cage. It is supposed to be a beautiful and happy commitment. But whether you like it or not, sex plays an integral part of it. I say integral because it's powerful enough to break a marriage. Anyone who lies to his/her heart trying to ignore his/her own sex.ual needs because of marriage vows, even while being faithful to their spouse is being dishonest to themselves. Examples of such have already be given in this thread.

Anyway, whatever path you choose for yourself in future based on your idealistic morality values, just make sure that you stay true to yourself and are happy with whatever comes your way.

jidegirl12:

So I'm now termed as hypocrite because of my irresponsible act that I openly regret ..... In other words all Ex-Drug dealers / convicts turned counsellors or motivation speakers are NOT worthy cos of their past??

So I should shut my face and let my kid give away her virginity in prom night cos I did same foolishly?? No problemo.

By the way , I waited till after marriage. Once beaten twice shy

Alright then.

P.S when I said marriage I didn't mean all that afefeyeye in Naija ...you do know the marriage procedure in North America right?

I cant type cos have had a long day but I agree with bolded.Just to add I also dont think I am better than those who think they ought to tesr drive.This salvation thing is personal.My opinion is if possible wait, if you cant your own OYO.
Again I repeat I dont think I am better than those who think you should "test drive".Afterall I failed in that department (foolishly if I may add again and it was not even for test driving anything cos we were just boyfriend and girlfriend ).Even the bible says our righteousness is like filthy rags in front of the father.

That said though I wished I had waited.Again s.exx is awesome but is soooo overatted.Some days I am so tired that the sight of my husband's yekini standing to attention gives me shivers, I roll my eyes and think to myself oh dear not tonight. ;DThose are the days I dig out my granny pyjamas
So what was the rush sef

Efemena_xy:


Careful now there, girl. What 'evils' are you referring to here? Who made you judge, jury and executioner of people's life choices?

You don't have to shout, you know. while I am not speaking with my aunts here, so are you not speaking with your younger sis. If you think what I said is directed at you, know that what you understand from what I write, I am not sorry for. That was a general statement. Well, someone said some replies here are outta guilt.

It's interesting to see a non-married girl 'dishing' out marriage advice to the married ones. I laugh in Greek!

What marriage advice? You sound confused. This is about pre marital sex. It concerns me more than it does you. You are long past redeeming on this note. If you cannot be inspirational in a good way, you can as well just keep mute.

I sincerely hope 'steadfast virgins' like you don't have to contend with situations where in a desperate bid to preserve your saintly-non-test-driving-status pre-marriage, you end up having to endure the gnawing loneliness that arises from imposed sex.ual hunger from a non-responsive spouse.

No. I Won't have to endure nada. In case you never knew, I am a highly self esteemed woman. You can hope for good, thank you but it is not your place, actually.

But then again, looks like your moral values will keep you warm at night when you find that your sex.ual needs are been neglected. Having said that, no one here is bound to comply by your yardstick of morality. If your stringent views worked well for your aunts, cousins and friends, good on them. But you aren't discussing with your aunts, cousins and friends on this forum. You're discussing with strangers, people you don't know jack about.

My moral values, I haven't forced on anyone. I have ignored your comments and the likes since getting on this thread. I only aired my views. How come that becomes a problem to you? Did you even look at the reply that led to the response you quoted?

Look, marriage isn't a cage. It is supposed to be a beautiful and happy commitment. But whether you like it or not, sex plays an integral part of it. I say integral because it's powerful enough to break a marriage. Anyone who lies to his/her heart trying to ignore his/her own sex.ual needs because of marriage vows, even while being faithful to their spouse is being dishonest to themselves. Examples of such have already be given in this thread.

Marriage isn't a cage, I agree. Stop talking like you have all the answers. You know not jack about me either. Stop projecting on me.

Anyway, whatever path you choose for yourself in future based on your idealistic morality values, just make sure that you stay true to yourself and are happy with whatever comes you

r way.

I know to be happy already. I have made choices that have proven best for me all the while. Staying truly happy is everyone's goal anyway. I have no doubts about achieving that by God's grace.

babyosisi:

My God
I remember this name from wayyyyy back in my early years here in 2006
When we terrorized olabowale and babs in the religious section
That was the happening section back then.
Times have changed

- Yes, it's the same TV, figured it was the same Babyosisi.
- "We" wouldn't have included me as I tend not to face off too other religions. I had my moments though.
- Agreed
- But you have not. Still unable - like many here - too square your proclaimed faith with your utterances and actions.


It seems all but over here so, perhaps I'll start another thread to put my POV.

However it's hard to understand how one can claim to be "married in heart" to someone you would have moved on if he had not tested right.

Hard to grasp how one can "test drive" without knowing how to drive in the first place? What driving competencies must one possess to be able to test properly?

Bellong, Admonition Aluta? (apologies if I got the names wrong)and a few others spelt it out, but truth is hard to receive if you don't really believe or just want to profess without actually practicing.

TV

vivianc: @AluTa: That explanation is wrong. WhaT that passage of the bible simply means is if two people who intend To marry have s.ex, They sinneth noT, leT Them marry. S.ex becomes a sin when the marriage promise is not fulfilled afTerwards.

Don't turn iT upside down biko.

so even after they showed you three translations in easy to understand English to help you know the true meaning of that verse you still insist on your own twisted version.

chai....we humans sha. Always trying to justify ourselves.

TV01:


Hard to grasp how one can "test drive" without knowing how to drive in the first place? What driving competencies must one possess to be able to test properly?

Bellong, Admonition Aluta? (apologies if I got the names wrong)and a few others spelt it out, but truth is hard to receive if you don't really believe or just want to profess without actually practicing.

TV

Damn @ the first paragraph

alutacontinua:

You don't believe they were actually test-driving, do you?
Vivi, there're people who actually obey the injunction to the letter. I know of a friend who never kissed her husband until the pastor said "You may now kiss the bride"-no touching, no smooching, no seeing each other's private parts, nothing-and to say they were in the relationship for about 7 years.

It's not easy but if one's primary aim is to obey God and his word-all you would ask for is his grace and live it one day at a time.

Oh my God ! For real ? ? ?
How is their marriage now?

baby_123: Everybody screaming about sin. Last time I checked bibeli so wi pe, one sin is not greater than the other. So abeg, can we have an alternative? Me I test drove,wella! It worked for me. When SI comes, I know I had a good ride. No surprise or disappointment, rather better things dey come up. I am not one for surprises. If you didn't marry as a pure virgin, abeg hide! You are no better than the F-1 test drivers. I don't buy that secondary virgin crap. Sin is sin, if you want to use bible to drown others out. If you have not sinned and fall short of glory, cast stones. Otherwise, let's move on. Now, what is the alternative? I have not heard a reasonable one sha o.

What does F-1 mean as regards test drivers?

I.Joan:


What does F-1 mean as regards test drivers?

Are you over 18?

deols:

You don't have to shout, you know. while I am not speaking with my aunts here, so are you not speaking with your younger sis. If you think what I said is directed at you, know that what you understand from what I write, I am not sorry for. That was a general statement. Well, someone said some replies here are outta guilt.

Trust me, I'm not shouting. If I were, I'd use capital letters or bold fonts, and even if I were speaking to my younger sister, cat or donkey, I won't have to shout to get my point across. Understand?

No one's asking you to be sorry or apologize for what you've written, and neither could I care less (for an apology from you), nor do I feel 'guilty' about anything I've done. What I'm calling you out on is to explain what you meant by the word 'evils'. Don't hide behind generalizations or claim to be speaking in general terms. That's quite low even for you, deols.

If you're gonna speak hotly and feverently about an issue you hold dear to heart, the least you can do is explain yourself in clear terms without any ambiguity. You owe your readers that at the very least!

Bearing in mind the word "evil" means: To be profoundly sinful, immoral and malevolent including induldging in an act of extreme, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force. Strong choice of words to use, innit? So I'll ask you once more again deols,

What exactly did you mean by the sentence, "If people can say the evils they do loud and clear..."?

deols: What marriage advice? You sound confused. This is about pre marital sex. It concerns me more than it does you. You are long past redeeming on this note. If you cannot be inspirational in a good way, you can as well just keep mute.

On the contrary, I'm not the one whose lost my marbles here. You are, dear girl. Pre-marital sex constitutes basic marriage 101 advice classes given out by religious heads / authorities to couples seeking to get hitched. Are you a religious head, deols? or in a position of authority to advice ram your stringent opinions down people's throats? No? I didn't think so.

This thread calls for people to contribute their ideas and views on the topic of pre-marital sex and it's alternatives. Folks here give their advice or share their experiences. What experience have you shared deols? Apart throwing out excerpts from your religious books? You assume everyone here is religious like you? You?? Lol! So what 'advice' do you have for the non-religious people here? Or they don't count? Of course they don't because deols thinks this topic concerns her more than anyone else here on this forum. Get real lady.

And one more thing, I don't have to be 'inspirational' to the likes of you. Come to think of it, I don't give a monkey's what you 'think' is right or wrong. What I do find offensive is you trying to lord your inexperience over the experienced. What personal experience(s) do you have to share? I mean REAL LIFE experiences? Who really cares to know what your aunts, cousins, or friends tell you? As far as I'm concerned, if you've not been directly involved, your 'experiences' at best are not even second hand but third-hand...primarily because you are not in that situation. People only tell you what they think you ought to know. You have no idea what goes on behind your aunts, cousins and friends closed doors, okay?

So based on that, you should be the one to keep mute. Understand?

deols: No. I Won't have to endure nada. In case you never knew, I am a highly self esteemed woman. You can hope for good, thank you but it is not your place, actually.

Awww...I see I struck a raw nerve there. Well then, if you really are that self-esteemed, you don't have to tell us. Your actions should speak louder than words. I know my worth and full of self confidence. I know what I want and go for it. It's never failed or backfired at me. What does that tell you? And most importantly, can you say the same for yourself??

deols: My moral values, I haven't forced on anyone. I have ignored your comments and the likes since getting on this thread. I only aired my views. How come that becomes a problem to you? Did you even look at the reply that led to the response you quoted?

No? You haven't forced your moral values on anyone? Yet in the same breath, you call people with differing views 'evil' and beyond redemption? Yes, I too saw your earlier comment regarding those who do not think the same way as you but chose to ignore it. I even smiled at it earlier this afternoon and decided to indulge you. Afterall, one doesn't have to respond to every cannon ball thrown in their direction, do they? But what I will not ignore, is you going one step further to label them as 'evil'. Who the hell do you think you are?? No need ask sef. Ans: Hypocrite.

You went beyond airing your views. Labelling or name calling is not airing your views and yes, I do have a problem with that and I'm telling you straight up to your face.

deols: Marriage isn't a cage, I agree. Stop talking like you have all the answers. You know not jack about me either. Stop projecting on me.

Now you go back and read my earlier post. I stated in crystal clear terms that I don't have all the answers, am learning a thing or two here and have advocated for all angles to be looked upon, discerned and cross examined thoroughly. But you on the other hand, from your religiously high moral horse look down on us 'heathens' because you inwardly feel you're better, yes?

I don't know, nor do I care to know jack about you girl. Your posts alone tell me everything I need to know about your personality. If you think my calling you out to defend yourself equates to projecting on you, so be it. But defend your claims, you must.

deols:

I know to be happy already. I have made choices that have proven best for me all the while. Staying truly happy is everyone's goal anyway. I have no doubts about achieving that by God's grace.

Good.

baby_123:



Are you over 18?

my mental age is way over 18!!!
ride on!

deols:

Mind you, I wasn't talking about your Muslim friends but about the Islamic doctrine.

Now that you said it, I can already have it in mind that the bible says all sins are equal on a maybe. You shouldn't have waited for my comparison before pointing the "error" in others's comments. And I didn't make them to show that mine is better but to simply make points and have an understanding of why we act and see things differently.

Chillax. I do as I please. I simply followed your logic. If the opinion of some who try to justify the pm sex, to you, fully represents christianity, leaving out the opinion of others who do not, why can the opinion of my muslim friends not represent Islam?
Double standard much?

And why should I have unhealthy relationships to prove a point. It is a part of a good upbringing process to get exposed to only that which is beneficial. and that is not to say that I don't have male friends. We only respect our BOundaries .

I believe friendship is like clothing. For me, there is no hard and fast rule as to what one should wear as long as it decent. Buh then, like decency, healthiness (of friendship) is subjective.

I take it that you are commenting based on your own exposure (limited due to upbringing). It's a dirty world out there. Hiding behind a hijab does not shield one from it.

The difference between good and bad is in the power of choice. If one does not do bad because he isn't allowed to, it doesn't make him an upright man. If he has the chance to but rejects the lure no matter how enticing, then he is upright.

I hope you got my point this time.

And what if I am? If people can say the evils they do loud and clear, I am of the opinion that the good be told louder and clearer. I have aunts, cousins and friends who got married as virgins.

If they can do it, every other person can.

I'm not attacking your person or convictions. Hope you realise it. You have a right to them. Asking how you knew that they did not engage in any form of "evil" might sound insulting, so I would not ask.

Being a technical virgin does not equal chastity, neither does a loss of it equal decadence. What of those that got raped? Can they get married as virgins too? Religion and reality are not parallel lines. It's unfortunate we make it seem so.

I'd leave you with this:
NO HUMAN IS A YARDSTICK FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

I.Joan:


my mental age is way over 18!!!
ride on!

Wait till you are. Then come back, and i will explain.

Efemena_xy:

Trust me, I'm not shouting. If I were, I'd use capital letters or bold fonts, and even if I were speaking to my younger sister, cat or donkey, I won't have to shout to get my point across. Understand?

No one's asking you to be sorry or apologize for what you've written, and neither could I care less (for an apology from you), nor do I feel 'guilty' about anything I've done. What I'm calling you out on is to explain what you meant by the word 'evils'. Don't hide behind generalizations or claim to be speaking in general terms. That's quite low even for you, deols.

If you're gonna speak hotly and feverently about an issue you hold dear to heart, the least you can do is explain yourself in clear terms without any ambiguity. You owe your readers that at the very least!

Bearing in mind the word "evil" means: To be profoundly sinful, immoral and malevolent including induldging in an act of extreme, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force. Strong choice of words to use, innit? So I'll ask you once more again deols,

What exactly did you mean by the sentence, "If people can say the evils they do loud and clear..."?




On the contrary, I'm not the one whose lost my marbles here. You are, dear girl. Pre-marital sex constitutes basic marriage 101 advice classes given out by religious heads / authorities to couples seeking to get hitched. Are you a religious head, deols? or in a position of authority to advice ram your stringent opinions down people's throats? No? I didn't think so.

This thread calls for people to contribute their ideas and views on the topic of pre-marital sex and it's alternatives. Folks here give their advice or share their experiences. What experience have you shared deols? Apart throwing out excerpts from your religious books? You assume everyone here is religious like you? You?? Lol! So what 'advice' do you have for the non-religious people here? Or they don't count? Of course they don't because deols thinks this topic concerns her more than anyone else here on this forum. Get real lady.

And one more thing, I don't have to be 'inspirational' to the likes of you. Come to think of it, I don't give a monkey's what you 'think' is right or wrong. What I do find offensive is you trying to lord your inexperience over the experienced. What personal experience(s) do you have to share? I mean REAL LIFE experiences? Who really cares to know what your aunts, cousins, or friends tell you? As far as I'm concerned, if you've not been directly involved, your 'experiences' at best are not even second hand but third-hand...primarily because you are not in that situation. People only tell you what they think you ought to know. You have no idea what goes on behind your aunts, cousins and friends closed doors, okay?

So based on that, you should be the one to keep mute. Understand?



Awww...I see I struck a raw nerve there. Well then, if you really are that self-esteemed, you don't have to tell us. Your actions should speak louder than words. I know my worth and full of self confidence. I know what I want and go for it. It's never failed or backfired at me. What does that tell you? And most importantly, can you say the same for yourself??



No? You haven't forced your moral values on anyone? Yet in the same breath, you call people with differing views 'evil' and beyond redemption? Yes, I too saw your earlier comment regarding those who do not think the same way as you but chose to ignore it. I even smiled at it earlier this afternoon and decided to indulge you. Afterall, one doesn't have to respond to every cannon ball thrown in their direction, do they? But what I will not ignore, is you going one step further to label them as 'evil'. Who the hell do you think you are?? No need ask sef. Ans: Hypocrite.

You went beyond airing your views. Labelling or name calling is not airing your views and yes, I do have a problem with that and I'm telling you straight up to your face.




Now you go back and read my earlier post. I stated in crystal clear terms that I don't have all the answers, am learning a thing or two here and have advocated for all angles to be looked upon, discerned and cross examined thoroughly. But you on the other hand, from your religiously high moral horse look down on us 'heathens' because you inwardly feel you're better, yes?

I don't know, nor do I care to know jack about you girl. Your posts alone tell me everything I need to know about your personality. If you think my calling you out to defend yourself equates to projecting on you, so be it. But defend your claims, you must.



Good.

wow, mena! mena! mena!

Whistles :*olopa ooo*

baby_123:

wow, mena! mena! mena!

Whistles :*olopa ooo*

and you had to quote the whole thing?

baby_123:

wow, mena! mena! mena!

Whistles :*olopa ooo*

Wetin? Evidence that I'm in a good mood jare.

Biko, explain the last line jor. Nor do a 'Jidegirl' on me too

Efemena_xy:

Wetin? Evidence that I'm in a good mood jare.

Biko, explain the last line jor. Nor do a 'Jidegirl' on me too

oh, its a sound people make when whistling. That was too much na.

Oahray: and you had to quote the whole thing?

What, will you die if you dont read what i write Mr pastor.

Anyhow, all is well that ends well. babyosisi started this, and she clearly wrote she test drove. I just think the response by those who did same, trying to make it seem like they didnt was a bit over the top. My personal opinion sha. I understand how people like to advise their younger ones against stuff by not mentioning their experiences, but that would have better helped their pov, rather than quoting the bible for almost 13pages to make a point. Which at the end of the day makes the whole matter worse, and like rapture things. . But do i regret it? NOPE, glad i did. Not going to pretend here. That was a personal decision, and i claim it. I dont have any regrets in my life, and thus far i am grateful.

baby_123:

Wait till you are. Then come back, and i will explain.

I know what test-driving means! Just want to know what the F-1 adjective meant...

@Biolabee/Oahray
Do you know?

Oahray: abeg eeee. Quit the subtle whatever-it-is-you-are-doing. As if I don't have Muslim friends. They also rationalise about stuff like this.

Truth is, the Bible doesn't say all sins are the same. It even says there is a sin that can't be forgiven. It doesn't advocate premarital sex either, and even terms sexual acts outside intercourse as 'loose conduct and uncleanness'. Your post made sense but comparing based on the opinion of some who see nothing wrong with it, and ignoring the ones who do, is just not right.

Btw, it's easy to talk about overcoming temptation, especially online, when you haven't faced one. What happens when you have the chance to do what is wrong? That's what counts. Have real friendship with non-relatives of the opposite sex and come back to tell us how easy it is to avoid those things.

That is even assuming you are one of the persons you know that have never engaged in the mentioned acts.

Does fleeing from any appearance of temptation count ?

I.Joan:


I know what test-driving means! Just want to know what the F-1 adjective meant...

@Biolabee/Oahray
Do you know?

F1 is formula one. You know formula one racing, right?

Oahray: F1 is formula one. You know formula one racing, right?

I got you

I.Joan:


Does fleeing from any appearance of temptation count ?

depends on who is judging

baby_123:

What, will you die if you dont read what i write Mr pastor.

hehehe... Na wa o.

I.Joan:


I know what test-driving means! Just want to know what the F-1 adjective meant...

@Biolabee/Oahray
Do you know?

What does test driving mean?

Again, I was making a general statement about my thoughts on the need to be louder and clearer. If it made you feel evil, then it is food for thought. I wasn't going to apologise anyway. You seem to hammer too much on what isn't' going to happen.

Again, I didn't force my idea on anyone .I replied op and responded those who quoted me. The only xception was on the virginity talk. Your reaction then is just as now. It makes your situation more understandable.

You have lost it jor. Op asked religious views and that is why I gave it. So you expected me to give experiences like you did? It would have made you happy to see a partner in the act? Hell no. I ain't like you.

Inspiration from you? I can't fit laugh.

So you are confident? and that is the response you have for someone with a high self esteem? Oya, clap for yourself ; D


obviously, you cant make simple deductions from what people say. Talking redemption, I meant you were gone past the stage when any advice given here can be helpful. Except you are thinking divorce and remarriage sha. Then you would have opportunities to test and retest drive. It sounds like your speciality.

Call me hypocrite or whatever. You are against name calling but doing exactly that? It doesnt matter anyway. I am not one to cry foul over irrelevances. From experience on this forum, I have seen that many who can't believe others aren't involved in the evils mistakes they perpetrate turn back on the others, calling them hypocrites. To them, that is the only explanation that makes Sense.

Now I can't help you feeling inferior. Eiyah, so u already imagine me on a high horse? Like I have been saying, I can't help it. I know my personality oozes out and makes you uncomfortable. I never want to feel like you do.

Efemena_xy:

Trust me, I'm not shouting. If I were, I'd use capital letters or bold fonts, and even if I were speaking to my younger sister, cat or donkey, I won't have to shout to get my point across. Understand?

No one's asking you to be sorry or apologize for what you've written, and neither could I care less (for an apology from you), nor do I feel 'guilty' about anything I've done. What I'm calling you out on is to explain what you meant by the word 'evils'. Don't hide behind generalizations or claim to be speaking in general terms. That's quite low even for you, deols.

If you're gonna speak hotly and feverently about an issue you hold dear to heart, the least you can do is explain yourself in clear terms without any ambiguity. You owe your readers that at the very le[b][/b]ast! [/b]

Bearing in mind the word "evil" means: To be profoundly sinful, immoral and malevolent including induldging in an act of extreme, wickedness, and depravity, esp. when regarded as a supernatural force. Strong choice of words to use, innit? So I'll ask you once more again deols,

What exactly did you mean by the sentence, "If people can say the [b]evils they do loud and clear..."?




On the contrary, I'm not the one whose lost my marbles here. You are, dear girl. Pre-marital sex constitutes basic marriage 101 advice classes given out by religious heads / authorities to couples seeking to get hitched. Are you a religious head, deols? or in a position of authority to advice ram your stringent opinions down people's throats? No? I didn't think so.

This thread calls for people to contribute their ideas and views on the topic of pre-marital sex and it's alternatives. Folks here give their advice or share their experiences. What experience have you shared deols? Apart throwing out excerpts from your religious books? You assume everyone here is religious like you? You?? Lol! So what 'advice' do you have for the non-religious people here? Or they don't count? Of course they don't because deols thinks this topic concerns her more than anyone else here on this forum. Get real lady.

And one more thing, I don't have to be 'inspirational' to the lies of you. Come to think of it, I don't give a monkey's what you 'think' is right or wrong. What I do find offensive is you trying to lord your inexperience over the experienced. What personal experience(s) do you have to share? I mean REAL LIFE experiences? Who really cares to know what your aunts, cousins, or friends tell you? As far as I'm concerned, if you've not been directly involved, your 'experiences' at best are not even second hand but third-hand...primarily because you are not in that situation. People only tell you what they think you ought to know. You have no idea what goes on behind your aunts, cousins and friends closed doors, okay?

So based on that, you should be the one to keep mute. Understand?



Awww...I see I struck a raw nerve there. Well then, if you really are that self-esteemed, you don't have to tell us. Your actions should speak louder than words. I know my worth and full of self confidence. I know what I want and go for it. It's never failed or backfired at me. What does that tell you? And most importantly, can you say the same for yourself??



No? You haven't forced your moral values on anyone? Yet in the same breath, you call people with differing views 'evil' and beyond redemption? Yes, I too saw your earlier comment regarding those who do not think the same way as you but chose to ignore it. I even smiled at it earlier this afternoon and decided to indulge you. Afterall, one doesn't have to respond to every cannon ball thrown in their direction, do they? But what I will not ignore, is you going one step further to label them as 'evil'. Who the hell do you think you are?? No need ask sef. Ans: Hypocrite.

You went beyond airing your views. Labelling or name calling is not airing your views and yes, I do have a problem with that and I'm telling you straight up to your face.




Now you go back and read my earlier post. I stated in crystal clear terms that I don't have all the answers, am learning a thing or two here and have advocated for all angles to be looked upon, discerned and cross examined thoroughly. But you on the other hand, from your religiously high moral horse look down on us 'heathens' because you inwardly feel you're better, yes?

I don't know, nor do I care to know jack about you girl. Your posts alone tell me everything I need to know about your personality. If you think my calling you out to defend yourself equates to projecting on you, so be it. But defend your claims, you must.







Good.

deols:
Again, I was making a general statement about my thoughts on the need to be louder and clearer. If it made you feel evil, then it is food for thought. I wasn't going to apologise anyway. You seem to hammer too much on what isn't' going to happen.

Again, I didn't force my idea on anyone .I replied op and responded those who quoted me. The only xception was on the virginity talk. Your reaction then is just as now. It makes your situation more understandable.

You have lost it jor. Op asked religious views and that is why I gave it. So you expected me to give experiences like you did? It would have made you happy to see a partner in the act? Hell no. I ain't like you.

Inspiration from you? I can't fit laugh.

So you are confident? and that is the response you have for someone with a high self esteem? Oya, clap for yourself ; D


Talking redemption, I meant you were gone past the stage when any advice given here can be helpful. Except you are thinking divorce and remarriage sha.

Call me hypocrite or whatever. You are against name calling but doing exactly that? It doesnt matter anyway. I am not one to cry foul over irrelevances. From e experience on this forum, I have seen that many who can't believe others aren't involved in the evils they perpetrate turn back on the others, calling them hypocrites. To them, that is the only explanation that makes Sense.

Now I can't help you feeling inferior. Eiyah, so u already imagine me on a high horse? Like I have been saying, I can't help it. I know my personality oozes out and makes you uncomfortable. I never want to feel like you do.

***Rolls eyes to the heavens***

I wish you'd quit getting all worked up and emotional on me. I don't do emotional. You either hit me with substantive, hard, facts or you take a hike. You made statements which I've asked you to explain but you hide behind the cloak of generalization because you can't defend yourself!

I've taken your argument piece by piece and shred it to bits. The least I was expecting was that you'll come back at me with some hard punches. Not feeble attempts to 'score one over' with me.

I asked you what you meant by using the term 'evil' - your words, not mine - to describe people here but you can't can you? Stop trying to wriggle out of the swamp of pi$$ you find yourself in. Haven't you got any backbone, girl??

Inferior to whom? You?? Are you for real? I mean, like seriously??

I've gently explained to you that you've lost your marbles and with good reason. You aren't in a position to give religious views 'cos you don't cut it, and neither do you have any real life experiences to share. No one's asking that yours should be mine. Heck! Efe's unique and doesn't need a copy-cat-wannae-be-image of myself here.

Yep, I am that self confident and loaded with self esteem, I don't need to clap for myself. It's ingrained in me. As per redemption, redemption is for those who acknowledge they've done wrong and seek retribution. I fit neither of those categories - or did you read somewhere that I inferred that I've got regrets? Sorry to burst your bubble but I can bet you that the number of years I've been married equates or even surpasses your present age, and it's still going strong. So why oh why would I wanna entertain thoughts of divorce or remarriage? Hmmm?

And you wonder who's lost it? Better add deluded to that growing list of yours, girl. You amuse me and that's the most reaction you'll ever be able to glean off me.

Now if you'll excuse me, this 'discussion' with you is very unstimulating to say the least. You've repeated yourself several times with no real answers or even punches that carry weight. I'll be gracious enough to let you have the last word. That way, I know you'll sleep better this night.

So be my guest, the floor's all yours.

Oahray:
Chillax. I do as I please. I simply followed your logic. If the opinion of some who try to justify the pm sex, to you, fully represents christianity, leaving out the opinion of others who do not, why can the opinion of my muslim friends not represent Islam?
Double standard much?

I believe friendship is like clothing. For me, there is no hard and fast rule as to what one should wear as long as it decent. Buh then, like decency, healthiness (of friendship) is subjective.

I take it that you are commenting based on your own exposure (limited due to upbringing). It's a dirty world out there. Hiding behind a hijab does not shield one from it.

The difference between good and bad is in the power of choice. If one does not do bad because he isn't allowed to, it doesn't make him an upright man. If he has the chance to but rejects the lure no matter how enticing, then he is upright.

I hope you got my point this time.

I'm not attacking your person or convictions. Hope you realise it. You have a right to them. Asking how you knew that they did not engage in any form of "evil" might sound insulting, so I would not ask.

Being a technical virgin does not equal chastity, neither does a loss of it equal decadence. What of those that got raped? Can they get married as virgins too? Religion and reality are not parallel lines. It's unfortunate we make it seem so.

I'd leave you with this:
NO HUMAN IS A YARDSTICK FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

You think I was judging Christianity by the people who agree to PM sex? No.

This isn't the first time I have heard Christians talk about the equality of all sins and this is the first time anyone(you) is denying it. So, don't blame me for my thoughts on it. To satisfy you, I had even responded with a maybe.

I have said on this thread that it isn't about the hymen. It goes beyond it, I agree. But why is it hard to believe that people who stay chaste until marriage exist?

Well, I know they do and they are celebrated around me. I wasn't using me or anyone else as a yardstick. I gave the examples because you asked. Don't be quick to forget that.

Oahray: depends on who is judging

If you were the judge?