It is both fascinating and very sobering to note how all the die-hard believers in hocus-pocus and magic show not the slightest concern about the monstrous daylight killing of a woman by brain-dead and bloodthirsty ululating African savages, many of whom would be better off dead and removed from the gene pool, than free to roam the streets constantly looking to vent the frustrations of their pointless lives via the wanton slaughter of innocents.

Every last one of the people in this forum and beyond, who remain so devoted to ramming their third-world philosophy of irrational fears down the throats of others,  is without question a potential participant in mob murder, who would instantly set upon another human being and participate in beating that person to death with no provocation required beyond  that of screamed accusations from fellow lunatics who simply dream up imaginary crimes  that would NEVER stand up to the scrutiny of even the most rudimentary judicial process.

Jakumo:

It is both fascinating and very sobering to note how all the die-hard believers in hocus-pocus and magic show not the slightest concern about the monstrous daylight killing of a woman by brain-dead and bloodthirsty ululating African savages, many of whom would be better off dead and removed from the gene pool, than free to roam the streets constantly looking to vent the frustrations of their pointless lives via the wanton slaughter of innocents.

Every last one of the people in this forum and beyond, who remain so devoted to ramming their third-world philosophy of irrational fears down the throats of others,  is without question a potential participant in mob murder, who would instantly set upon another human being and participate in beating that person to death with no provocation required beyond  that of screamed accusations from fellow lunatics who simply dream up imaginary crimes  that would NEVER stand up to the scrutiny of even the most rudimentary judicial process.

I am sensing desperation here riddled with lies.

I stated that I am not in support of killing anyone and would not do so or even participate in such.

This makes nonsense of your lie above.

Again, ignorance is displayed here because those who have seen charms work have stated some of their real life experiences but because you already have a mindset that charms don't work and that those stories cannot be true you have chosen to dismiss them even though you don't have prove to do so.

SEFAGO:

That is a logical contradiction. You cannot believe in something and it doesn't exist- if you consider epistemological arguments- it is impossible for you not to know and to know. If you know something then it exists. If you don't it doesn't exist. What you are trying to say is you have never seen charms or you don't believe in charms- and that maybe charms don't exist. But then your belief was never justified if charms actually exist and so unjustified belief means no knowledge.

If you know something then it exists and if you don't then it doesn't? Where the hell did you get that from? So, if you don't know the answer to 1 + 1 then the answer does not exist? Wonderful theory.

I may know the answer to 1 + 1 and still tell you it is 3 may be because I am living in denial. I have seen charms work so it exist. However, I do not believe in them as I seen them more or evil powers than good powers, simple.

If you are so sure of this why not go challenge those who use them and come back here to tell us stories that is if you are alive to do so.

SEFAGO:

I am just giving you guys an example of why science cannot always cohere all the time with logic. Not because science is wrong, but because science is built on probabilistic assumptions.

Long and short- This story is a big fat lie- the okada man just knocked an innocent woman down, mobilized his boys, they beat the woman for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. helped you summarize the witch story. This story is also full of contradictions- why, if she could turn into a cat not do so again front of people to escape? Is her only power a cat? if she could kill people- why was she allowing herself to get beaten up? Man anytime I am on Nairaland, and hear what ppl say, I just keep playing this song in my head :Zombie oh Zombie, Zombie, Zombie way go follow anyone 

The story is a big fat lie because you say so. No proof, no evidence just your opinion and words are enough to make a story lie. Is that your line of thought here?

richcookie:

Thirdly, when will we nigerians understand that everthing that happens is not always superstition. If one should levitate, most nigerians will say na juju he use! Many practises exist that can make things happen. It is a known fact that if you want to do miraculous things, you can find books on them on the internet. Books exist that will teach you LEVITATION, CASTING SPELLS, CALLING UP GOOD AND BAD SPIRITS, POWERFUL SACRIFICES YOU CAN PERFORM, MENTAL TELEPATHY, HYPNOSIS, MIND TRAVEL, MONEY CREATION METHODS, SATANIC RITUALS ETC,

Everything can be explained! The woman did not go from a cat and become human. Trust me it is a figment of someones immagination.

You believe in levitation because science explains it but don't believe in juju because you have not seen it documented by scientists? Is this your position?

Is this guy (afam) for real?

bidemi12:

Is this guy (afam) for real?

When you see your father ask him that. Idiots like you cannot think, they simply drop one liners that are irrelevant to the post just to hide their stupidity.

bidemi12:

Is this guy (afam) for real?

Like you, Bidemi, I did initially surmise that Witchdoctor Afam HAD to be joking in the way he supported street mob murders, and in his proclamations that Nigeria is so advanced in voodoo that the Western world will forever be relegated to playing catch-up, BUT, as this certifyable gentleman proceeded to elaborate on his outlandish tenth-hand fairy-tales of WI[b]N[/b]CHES, WEEZARDS and cat-women, it became depressingly apparent that our man Afam does indeed occupy the same plane of consciousness reserved for the criminally insane and pathologically homicidal.

The sad fact is, though, that the systematic indoctrination of irrational superstitious beliefs commences in earnest as soon as a full 99.999% of all Nigerian children first begin to acquire language skills, and that clinical derangement, once firmly established in the deepest recesses of young impressionable minds, invariably lasts and festers there for life, like a malignant cancer that remains totally impervious to ANY form of logical reasoning or demonstrated scientific debunking. 

Were it not for the regular commisson of horrific capital murder by groups of similarly demented individuals, the variant of mass cognitive afflictions evident in Mr. Afam's rambling would have been prized and appreciated by the scientific community, in that such self-inflicted dibilitations provide ready case studies that highlight some of the main causative factors behind the perpetuation of Africa's current status as the basket case of planet Earth.

Jakumo:

Like you, Bidemi, I did initially surmise that Witchdoctor Afam HAD to be joking in the way he supported street mob murders, and in his proclamations that Nigeria is so advanced in voodoo that the Western world will forever be relegated to playing catch-up, BUT, as this certifyable gentleman proceeded to elaborate on his outlandish tenth-hand fairy-tales of WI[b]N[/b]CHES, WEEZARDS and cat-women, it became depressingly apparent that our man Afam does indeed occupy the same plane of consciousness reserved for the criminally insane and pathologically homicidal.

The depressing fact is, though, that the systematic indoctrination of irrational superstitious beliefs commences in earnest as soon as a full 99.999% of all Nigerian children first begin to acquire language skills, and that clinical derangement, once firmly established in the deepest recesses of young impressionable minds, invariably lasts and festers there for life, like a malignant cancer that remains totally impervious to ANY form of logical reasoning or demonstrated scientific debunking. 

Were it not for the regular commisson of horrific capital murder by groups of similarly demented individuals, the sort mass cognitive afflictions evident in Mr. Afam's rambling would have been prized and appreciated by the scientific community, in that they provide ready case studies that highlight some of the main causative factors behind the perpetuation of Africa's current status as the basket case of planet Earth.

More desperation, more lies and more diversions.

Have I ever supported the killing of anyone on account of changing from one form to another? No.

Yet, you keep repeating to take our eyes off the issues we have been debating. very childish and shows how desperate you are to hide your ignorance on this issue.

As stated, earlier your acceptance or otherwise of any position does not change the fact about that thing. This is a fact you will have to live with all your life. Your personal view remains inconsequential.

Hmmm, I don't know, buddy.  I can't recall ever harboring any feelings of "desperation"  while posting my thoughts here in the Nairaland forum.  I generally find myself amused, enlightened or entertained by the rigid convictions so dear to many writers, including yourself.

Desperation is what I feel on those rare occasions when I had built up hopes of engaging in sex with a beautiful woman, only to learn that I would have to pay by the hour for the privilege.

@jakumo   In fact, tell the truth, you are either a columnist or an aspiring writer. The golden strokes of your literary brush will one day (i forsee) be compared to the mona lisa. My only problem is the strong illetelectual language used to make your point. Mr. Afam, i guarantee you, will not be able to understand it. (i can see him clicking away at google right now)  Please henceforth use simple english to communicate your argument to him e.g "winch no real. E no possible for woman to turn to cat like that". That should do it. There are two people so far that have blown me away with the manner, logic, humour and language used to argue their points on NL, (which does not mean i have to agree with them on all threads) one is sagamite and the other you. Alas this is my last weekend on NL for at least a while or i would have engineered a way for us to meet. Really, nice one.

Thank you Bidemi.  E be like say I nearly wan' forget myself.

Afam, please siddon to take hear this my word well-well,  because e been get wettin I go explain for you ONLY today.

Someting like winch NO dey for Nigeria, and Weezard sef no dey.   The main problem when dey ground for Nigeria be say how as people like you when TINK say dem don capture winch go come craze go kill person when no do bad at all-at all, like say na fowl dem dey kill.

Meet me for Mama Bomboy Sapele Wata joint for under Ijora bridge, and I go finish de 'tory for you, so that you too nogo come mistake go follow dem kill man pikin for nothing, because police don dey jail dem now.  No follow gang o !

@ jakumo that's more like it

bidemi12:

@jakumo   In fact, tell the truth, you are either a columnist or an aspiring writer. The golden strokes of your literary brush will one day (i forsee) be compared to the mona lisa. My only problem is the strong illetelectual language used to make your point. Mr. Afam, i guarantee you, will not be able to understand it. (i can see him clicking away at google right now)  Please henceforth use simple english to communicate your argument to him e.g "winch no real. E no possible for woman to turn to cat like that".

Gbam! strong illetelectual indeed! So how a complete slowpoke thinks and writes in its natural state.

Na ya eye we dey look o, Afam, and I dey pray make dem no go pour san-san for ya garri one day, because of all this 'tory when dey commot for ya mout.

Jakumo:

Hmmm, I don't know, buddy.  I can't recall ever harboring any feelings of "desperation"  while posting my thoughts here in the Nairaland forum.  I generally find myself amused, enlightened or entertained by the rigid convictions held by many writers, including yourself.

Desperation is what I feel on those rare occasions when I had built up hopes of engaging in sex with a beautiful woman, only to learn that I would have to pay by the hour for the privilege.

People lie out of desperation. That you have done over and over again and each time you are corrected but it seems telling lies gives you a level of satisfaction to justify whatever position you hold on to.

Personally, I see liars as mere criminals. If you had any points to back up your claim there would not be any need for lies unless you don't see anything wrong with telling them.

@Afam  so for everything wey i write na only typographical error you see respond to? Na wa oh. Anyway, shey you get the point sha.

SEFAGO:
This was quite interesting so I would jump in a bit:

That is a logical contradiction. You cannot believe in something and it doesn't exist- if you consider epistemological arguments- it is impossible for you not to know and to know. If you know something then it exists. If you don't it doesn't exist. What you are trying to say is you have never seen charms or you don't believe in charms- and that maybe charms don't exist. But then your belief was never justified if charms actually exist and so unjustified belief means no knowledge.

And someone mentioned something about quantum mechanics- which is a totally useless argument for proving anything. Beaf probably mentioned it to impress you guys, And I don't need math equations- I have taken a graduate class in quantum chemistry (500 level). For example, quantum theory claims time travel is possible is we go through forbidden regions through quantum tunneling, but time travel creates an ontological/predestination paradox. Like two classical examples 1)   Tim can go back into time to kill his grandfather, but if he kills his grandfather he cannot exist, and if he does not exist he does not go back into time to kill his grandfather.

2) Or I go back into time, and give newton a torn copy of principia mathematica (Newton's treatise on calculus and physics) without the author's name on it. Newton decides to copy everything down, and make his own book called of course- Principia mathematica   - the question become who discovered the equations of force and motion then.

I am just giving you guys an example of why science cannot always cohere all the time with logic. Not because science is wrong, but because science is built on probabilistic assumptions.

Long and short- This story is a big fat lie- the okada man just knocked an innocent woman down, mobilized his boys, they beat the woman for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. helped you summarize the witch story. This story is also full of contradictions- why, if she could turn into a cat not do so again front of people to escape? Is her only power a cat? if she could kill people- why was she allowing herself to get beaten up? Man anytime I am on Nairaland, and hear what ppl say, I just keep playing this song in my head :Zombie oh Zombie, Zombie, Zombie way go follow anyone  

If you noticed, those in the opposing camp aren't arguing the veracity of the story (like you, we weren't there). We are talking about the possibility of paranormal phenomena to occur. Let's keep to honesty and not twist things.

Your argument is a shocking pile of rubbish.
What have your stories of "Tim" got to do with either proving or disproving any viewpoint? Strange.

If "science cannot always cohere all the time with logic", what comes closer? Your illogical and unproven word? If you "don't need math equations", to prove a point logically, aren't you subscribing to hocus pocus? Funny guy!

There is nothing on Earth (or elsewhere) that cannot be reduced to mathematics. 2 and 2 is always 4, whether physically or spiritually. Don't make yourself look ridiculous.

Afam:

I am sensing desperation here riddled with lies.

I stated that I am not in support of killing anyone and would not do so or even participate in such.

This makes nonsense of your lie above.

Again, ignorance is displayed here because those who have seen charms work have stated some of their real life experiences but because you already have a mindset that charms don't work and that those stories cannot be true you have chosen to dismiss them even though you don't have prove to do so.

If you know something then it exists and if you don't then it doesn't? Where the hell did you get that from? So, if you don't know the answer to 1 + 1 then the answer does not exist? Wonderful theory.

whoever you are please get your mind off the belief in juju and charms because they don't exist.i'm telling you authoritatively because i know everything.if you continue to display this ignorance then no right thinking person can transact business with you.

bidemi12:

@jakumo In fact, tell the truth, you are either a columnist or an aspiring writer. The golden strokes of your literary brush will one day (i forsee) be compared to the mona lisa. My only problem is the strong illetelectual language used to make your point. Mr. Afam, i guarantee you, will not be able to understand it. (i can see him clicking away at google right now) Please henceforth use simple english to communicate your argument to him e.g "winch no real. E no possible for woman to turn to cat like that". That should do it. There are two people so far that have blown me away with the manner, logic, humour and language used to argue their points on NL, (which does not mean i have to agree with them on all threads) one is sagamite and the other you. Alas this is my last weekend on NL for at least a while or i would have engineered a way for us to meet. Really, nice one.

There is an unabashed di.ck sucker / butt licker on this thread.

Abagworo:


whoever you are please get your mind off the belief in juju and charms because they don't exist.i'm telling you authoritatively because i know everything.if you continue to display this ignorance then no right thinking person can transact business with you.

You know everything? Trust me only a fool would make that kind of comment you just made about you knowing everything.

As regards transacting business with me I don't remember asking for such advice. If I need advice on running a business be rest assured you will be the last person I will ask.

Any diversion to avoid the issue.

I develop custom software and database driven applications (www.justwebservices.com). When I am not doing this I design and build inverter backup systems for individuals, organisations and government agencies (www.justalternativepower.com).

So, stick to the issue and stop providing unsolicited and irrelevant advice. Not all Nigerians who do business with others are myopic in their reasoning.

I don't subscribe to charms and I don't use it even though I know it exist and works for those that use them based on my own experience. I wonder why any reasonable human being can tell another not to believe what he/she saw or experienced.

@beaf  i have a ridle/joke for you. what do get when you put 2 winchcraft mongers on a thread? Give up? The answer is MORONS. You are the kind of person who goes to babalawo to get contract, kill his rival for the love of a woman, burn his child's feet to bring out a confession on winchesm, sacrifice human beings to get that chieftancy title etc  God!!! people de sha.

Based on the sheer volume of noise created, and the acres of repetitious verbiage regurgitated here, I hereby declare AFAM the winner of all disputes both real, imaginary and Jujuological.

Clap for yourself Afam, and take a bow on the winners podium, where you will be decorated with a neckace of smoke-dried vulture heads .   The rest of us runner-ups will endeavor not to conclude that your garbled effusions arise from an intractable case of THE clap.

Jakumo:

Based on the sheer volume of noise created, and the acres of repetitious verbiage regurgitated here, I hereby declare AFAM the winner of all disputes both real, imaginary and Jujuological.


Clap for yourself Afam, and take a bow on the winners podium, where you will be decorated with a neckace of smoke-dried vulture heads . The rest of us runner-ups will endeavor not to conclude that your garbled effusions arise from an intractable case of THE clap.

This is not about winning or losing. It is about having to courage to admit that we don't know something and the ability to live with things we may not subscribe to even when they exist.

Personally, points have been made, diversions introduced, lies peddled, the topic of the thread changed to twist and misinform others.

If you have time on your hands go to www.ijann.com and report on bugs or errors. That will be more productive. I need to work on that site now so may be taking a break from your juju denial.

bidemi12:

@beaf  i have a ridle/joke for you. what do get when you put 2 winchcraft mongers on a thread? Give up? The answer is MORONS. You are the kind of person who goes to babalawo to get contract, kill his rival for the love of a woman, burn his child's feet to bring out a confession on winchesm, sacrifice human beings to get that chieftancy title etc  God!!! people de sha.

Really funny. But sorry bro, I am a pragmatist who is neither religious nor inclined to your "winchesm".

I tend to respect the next persons thoughts, make enquiries; not jump to conclusions. You will learn the importance of that with time as you realise the need for wisdom.

Afam:

You know everything? Trust me only a fool would make that kind of comment you just made about you knowing everything.

As regards transacting business with me I don't remember asking for such advice. If I need advice on running a business be rest assured you will be the last person I will ask.

Any diversion to avoid the issue.

I develop custom software and database driven applications (www.justwebservices.com). When I am not doing this I design and build inverter backup systems for individuals, organisations and government agencies (www.justalternativepower.com).

So, stick to the issue and stop providing unsolicited and irrelevant advice. Not all Nigerians who do business with others are myopic in their reasoning.

I don't subscribe to charms and I don't use it even though I know it exist and works for those that use them based on my own experience. I wonder why any reasonable human being can tell another not to believe what he/she saw or experienced.

you are wrong because i know everything about juju.i say this with authority.

Just curious. Jakumo, wat do u do for a living?

afam can we meet tete a tete?

I must inform you , Afam, that as the WINNER of all disputes, you will be required to submit a continuing torrent of essays on all that needs to be said under this topic, to educate idiots like me until we fall silent in total submission.

Your new award for conquering all in this heated debate, much like the one awarded to Miss Universe, comes with a burden of responsibility that must be borne with pride for the one year duration of your reign as the Juju-Meister of Africa.  Please rise to the occasion and justify our confidence that you will live up to all expectations concommittant with your exalted status.

In short, your crown will go to the next runner-up if you fall short  in any regard.

Abagworo:

afam can we meet tete a tete?

I no dey meet with people wey sabi everything about juju.  

Na from far I dey see wetin dem dey do and I no wan know the details. At least I am sure I don't have problems with my eyes.

My yahoo ID is nnajiafam or email address is nnajiafam@yahoo.com

Jakumo:

It is both fascinating and very sobering to note how all the die-hard believers in hocus-pocus and magic show not the slightest concern about the monstrous daylight killing of a woman by brain-dead and bloodthirsty ululating African savages, many of whom would be better off dead and removed from the gene pool, than free to roam the streets constantly looking to vent the frustrations of their pointless lives via the wanton slaughter of innocents.

Where in the story was the woman reported killed? Or are you referring to the other dead cat?

@jakumo i just came back from a long and i must say refreshing jog to see you still using this big big english to address afam. Im head go explode ooo. I have told you before, relay your message simply in this format, "afam you don win. we don see the light and don de ready to give you gold medal wey we make of dried vulture head. Also we go need for you to enlighten, sorry teach us how this thing de work. you too much joo.

^
cock suckers sha

The caption of this scene can really drive home the fact that the scorching sun could detrimental to the brain,people look like wild animals,even with mobile phones in their hands.

Beaf:

^
cock suckers sha

You can say that again