anonimi:

That temporary & brief part may not have been workable then due to rapidly changing power dynamics, treachery & betrayal.
It is also difficult now due to modern human rights treaties.
There are so many people in European and American (north, central & southern) countries whose "ANCESTORS" arrived there one or two centuries ago and are practically INDIGENES of those places.
Those countries have prospered nevertheless while those of us who are so attached to our land and fearful of "settlers" are still lagging far behind!

I don't know what you are trying to prove running around like a headless chicken. After wasting time writing crap taken from empty air, the point is => IBOS are visitors in Lagos! => Temporary residency will never amount to permanent residency or citizenship if Nigeria collapses. => While Nigeria remains, we will assert our authority and ownership on the land of our fathers. => Your last point is applicable in iboland, NOT in Yorubaland. We were prosperous long before ibos were discovered in the forests in the early 1900s. Till today, Germany, Japan, etc are attached to their lands, you can visit or "settle" there while you are there but you will NEVER become a German citizen. You should be worried about your land for in Yorubaland SW, your opinion and presence on how we build the lands of our fathers is completely irrelevant and not required!

ShymmexLion: Enjoying the big kats and olu_kenzo.

And big ups to naptu2!!

Damn!! I need to read more and memorise those names.

Egba's were definitely born to fight and I dare say they were probably the most vicious of all the Yoruba groups after the fall of Oyo. Err...the Ibadan's too. As for the Ijebu's, we never really had a strong army back then because the kingdoms were scattered everywhere, however, the only thing we had in common was the lordship of the Awujale. We were just getting money and enjoying life - no stress - and the moat provided the defence we needed.

The most vicious group after the fall of Oyo was definitely Ibadan. They had a system of manufacturing warriors. When they went to war, they always allowed their young officers to fight on their own. They never used their complete force. So different battles were fought by different officers just to enable them get experience. This is why Ibadan produced the finest warriors such as Oluyedun, Lakanle, Oluyole, Oguunmola, Latosa within a very short space of time. Ibadan always had raw strength. There were quite a few wars in which the Ibadans used cutlasses against opponents who had guns. Certainly, this was the case at Kiriji.

The Egba on the otherhand were always very strategic in their wars. They relied on the concept of military strategy and were among the first groups in Nigeria to use canons. They used strategies such as attacking their enemies supplies to prevent enemies from arming. They were adept at seige warfare.

Katsumoto:
The most vicious group after the fall of Oyo was definitely Ibadan. They had a system of manufacturing warriors. When they went to war, they always allowed their young officers to fight on their own. They never used their complete force. So different battles were fought by different officers just to enable them get experience. This is why Ibadan produced the finest warriors such as Oluyedun, Lakanle, Oluyole, Oguunmola, Latosa within a very short space of time. Ibadan always had raw strength. There were quite a few wars in which the Ibadans used cutlasses against opponents who had guns. Certainly, this was the case at Kiriji.

The Egba on the otherhand were always very strategic in their wars. They relied on the concept of military strategy and were among the first groups in Nigeria to use canons. They used strategies such as attacking their enemies supplies to prevent enemies from arming. They were adept at seige warfare.

Interesting. I've always admired the fighting prowess of the two groups. However, since Ibadan back then was the melting point of all the Yoruba groups and no single Yoruba group could lay claims to it, after the Egba's were kicked out. So which group(s) made-up the Ibadan army?

As for the Egba's, I think the missionaries helped them in the acquisition of canons and some mercenaries/missionaries also fought side-by-side with them. But that doesn't negate their military prowess.

ShymmexLion:

Interesting. I've always admired the fighting prowess of the two groups. However, since Ibadan back then was the melting point of all the Yoruba groups and no single Yoruba group could lay claims to it, after the Egba's were kicked out. So which group(s) made-up the Ibadan army?

As for the Egba's, I think the missionaries helped them in the acquisition of canons and some mercenaries/missionaries also fought side-by-side with them. But that doesn't negate their military prowess.

Oh I am not negating their fighting prowess. Just offering other reasons for their successes.

Perhaps you are also right because the Ibadans were made up of different groups - Oyo, Ogbomoso, Egba, Ife, Ilorin, Ekiti, Ijesha. The Ibadans used captured slaves to fight their wars as well.

Katsumoto:

Oh I am not negating their fighting prowess. Just offering other reasons for their successes.

Perhaps you are also right because the Ibadans were made up of different groups - Oyo, Ogbomoso, Egba, Ife, Ilorin, Ekiti, Ijesha. The Ibadans used captured slaves to fight their wars as well.

Fair enough. The mighty Ibadan, the natural heir to Oyo empire.

Ibadan of today also need to take a stand and start setting the pace for other Yoruba's.

Olu_Kenzo

We Ijebu's need to take pride in how no empire subjugated us despite being surrounded by two of the most imperialistic empires in West Africa (Oyo and Benin), at that point in history. The Bini's had parts of Ondo and got all the way to Eko, but didn't come near us and Oyo left us alone. The Ijebu crown is Ijebu, or came from Ife with Obanta. But Olisa is purely Ijebu. And our culture is purely Ijebu. Heck, we gave them Olokun and clothes.

However, let's leave the Egba's alone - they're our brothers!

Okay Okay. I was some minutes ago privy to some oral evidence that corroborates kats position that the Egbas were more warlike. it is also true that the ijebu merchants of old played America now. Masters of industry, they were friends of the victors at war. They used mercenaries and fought proxy wars. blah blah blah.

And kats, the ijebus sold the egbas captured into slavery. Wouldnt that count as some form of subjugation?

@yomexp. omo alare = omo eyan (Pataki)= an important person's child.

ShymmexLion: Olu_Kenzo

We Ijebu's need to take pride in how no empire subjugated us despite being surrounded by two of the most imperialistic empires in West Africa (Oyo and Benin), at that point in history. The Bini's had parts of Ondo and got all the way to Eko, but didn't come near us and Oyo left us alone. The Ijebu crown is Ijebu, or came from Ife with Obanta. But Olisa is purely Ijebu. And our culture is purely Ijebu. Heck, we gave them Olokun and clothes.

However, let's leave the Egba's alone - they're our brothers!

ShymmexLion: Olu_Kenzo

We Ijebu's need to take pride in how no empire subjugated us despite being surrounded by two of the most imperialistic empires in West Africa (Oyo and Benin), at that point in history. The Bini's had parts of Ondo and got all the way to Eko, but didn't come near us and Oyo left us alone. The Ijebu crown is Ijebu, or came from Ife with Obanta. But Olisa is purely Ijebu. And our culture is purely Ijebu. Heck, we gave them Olokun and clothes.

However, let's leave the Egba's alone - they're our brothers!

Where did you get that from? All Yoruba groups were under Oyo. Oyo used Ilaris to administer and tax other groups. Other groups broke from this system after the Egba rebelled under Lisabi when the Egba killed almost 800 Ilaris in one single day in a coordinated move. Other groups also broke away after the fall of Oyo.

ShymmexLion: Olu_Kenzo

We Ijebu's need to take pride in how no empire subjugated us despite being surrounded by two of the most imperialistic empires in West Africa (Oyo and Benin), at that point in history. The Bini's had parts of Ondo and got all the way to Eko, but didn't come near us and Oyo left us alone. The Ijebu crown is Ijebu, or came from Ife with Obanta. But Olisa is purely Ijebu. And our culture is purely Ijebu. Heck, we gave them Olokun and clothes.

However, let's leave the Egba's alone - they're our brothers!

C'mon. its just healthy banter. The most memorable times of my Nigerian life, I shyte you not, were spent there. Heck my cousins are Egbas. And if not for some stroke of luck, I would have married from there. Hence, I mean(t) no disrespect.

Is Kats egba?

olu_kenzo :
Okay Okay. I was some minutes ago privy to some oral evidence that corroborates kats position that the Egbas were more warlike. it is also true that the ijebu merchants of old played America then. They were friends of the victors at war. They used mercenaries and fought proxy wars. blah blah blah.

And kats, the ijebus sold the egbas captured into slavery. Wouldnt that count as some form of subjugation?

@yomexp. omo alare = omo eyan (Pataki)= an important person's child.

Selling slaves doesn't mean you have subjugated any one. All Yoruba groups took slaves after war. The Ijebu were also good at raiding travelling caravans and selling captives as slaves. After the Ijaiye war, Ogunmola took a British slave, would you say Ibadan subjugated Britain?

Katsumoto:

Selling slaves doesn't mean you have subjugated any one. All Yoruba groups took slaves after war. The Ijebu were also good at raiding travelling caravans and selling captives as slaves. After the Ijaiye war, Ogunmola took a British slave, would you say Ibadan subjugated Britain?

Punctured my logic. An elderly cousin once told me at the UI that the name "dugbe" originated from the Egbas, how true? What's its etymology?

Katsumoto:
Where did you get that from? All Yoruba groups were under Oyo. Oyo used Ilaris to administer and tax other groups. Other groups broke from this system after the Egba rebelled under Lisabi when the Egba killed almost 800 Ilaris in one single day in a coordinated move. Other groups also broke away after the fall of Oyo.

The Ijebu's were never under Oyo. Even when others were breaking away, the Ijebu's were already independent. That was the same way PhysicsQED was trying to claim that Benin subjugated Ijebu based on some lies before Terracotta busted the lies. It seems everyone wants to claim Ijebu subjugation without any proof(s). Damn!!! The great Jebusites!

olu_kenzo :


C'mon. its just healthy banter. The most memorable times of my Nigerian life, I shyte you not, were spent there. Heck my cousins are Egbas. And if not for some stroke of luck, I would have married from there. Hence, I mean(t) no disrespect.

Is Kats egba?

I know, bruv. You need to go for an Egba wife - they breed beautiful and strong women. You need to see how my maternal grandmother and my aunts are. Grandma is close to 75 now and she's like 5'10, light-skinned, very strong and hardworking, and still very beautiful despite her old age. And the Egba accent is arguably the best Yoruba accent.

If I can predict the future, then I'll definitely go for an Egba woman.

Olu_Kenzo

Let me also chip this in that everywhere the Ijebu's go, we always stand up taller than Yao Ming. We abhor subjugation and we're proud people. The Imagbon war (Anglo-Ijebu war) - and heck, the Ijebu-Itsekiri's are also semi-autonomous from the main Itsekiri and Warri Kingdom. The Ugborodo clan and other Ijebu-Itsekiri clans still maintain their Ijebu-ness and their closeness to the Awujale.

That's something to be proud of.

Katsumoto:

The most vicious group after the fall of Oyo was definitely Ibadan. They had a system of manufacturing warriors. When they went to war, they always allowed their young officers to fight on their own. They never used their complete force. So different battles were fought by different officers just to enable them get experience. This is why Ibadan produced the finest warriors such as Oluyedun, Lakanle, Oluyole, Oguunmola, Latosa within a very short space of time. Ibadan always had raw strength. There were quite a few wars in which the Ibadans used cutlasses against opponents who had guns. Certainly, this was the case at Kiriji.

The Egba on the otherhand were always very strategic in their wars. They relied on the concept of military strategy and were among the first groups in Nigeria to use canons. They used strategies such as attacking their enemies supplies to prevent enemies from arming. They were adept at seige warfare.

Yes, Egba rocks

I see this thread has taken a new turn in historical annals. Keep it up, guys!

Katsumoto:

Pa kats ! ! ! Who is Pa kats? When did I reveal my age or age group? My age will shock you.

Try Amazon for a copy.

In response to those suggesting Bini in Lagos is a different ethnicity to Yoruba in Lagos, read the following and reflect on why we dont have Ogiso in Lagos.

Main article: Oba of Benin.

The mythic origins of Benin state that the city was originally under the rule of Ogisos, meaning "Kings of the Sky". When the last Ogiso died, the nobles and chiefs disagreed over who would be the next Ogiso, so the Benin sent a message to Ife to the Ooni (Oghene) of Ile-Ife, Oba Oduduwa, the king of Ife.

Benin's nobles asked him to send them a king; eventually Oduduwa sent to them his grandson, prince Oranmiyan. When Oranmiyan came to Benin, he struggled with the culture and customs of the Benin people. Because of his own difficulties acclimating to his new kingdom, Oba Oranmiyan changed the name of the city to Ile-Ibinu (1180-1897) which in the Yoruba language means the "Land of Vexation," and decided to leave the city. However, before leaving Benin, Oranmiyan had a son, Eweka, by princess Erimwinde. When Oranmiyan heard of this, he sent to him seven marbles for the child to play with. One day, as the prince was playing, one of the marbles broke. He immediately said "owomika!" or "eweka!", meaning "I succeeded!"

He immediately became the first Oba of Benin, Oba Eweka I. Oba Eweka was the first to reject the title of the native Benin "Ogiso" and took the title "Oba," meaning 'king' in the Yoruba language. Allegedly Oba Eweka later changed the name of the city of Ile-Ibinu, the capital of the Benin kingdom, to "Ubinu." Around 1470, Ewuare changed the name of the state to Edo.[2] This was about the time the people of Okpekpe migrated from Benin City.

ShymmexLion:

I know, bruv. You need to go for an Egba wife - they breed beautiful and strong women. You need to see how my maternal grandmother and my aunts are. Grandma is close to 75 now and she's like 5'10, light-skinned, very strong and hardworking, and still very beautiful despite her old age. And the Egba accent is arguably the best Yoruba accent.

If I can predict the future, then I'll definitely go for an Egba woman.

ShymmexLion: Olu_Kenzo

Let me also chip this in that everywhere the Ijebu's go, we always stand up taller than Yao Ming. We abhor subjugation and we're proud people. The Imagbon war (Anglo-Ijebu war) - and heck, the Ijebu-Itsekiri's are also semi-autonomous from the main Itsekiri and Warri Kingdom. The Ugborodo clan and other Ijebu-Itsekiri clans still maintain their Ijebu-ness and their closeness to the Awujale.

That's something to be proud of.

I know man. If not for intermarriages, the Egbas were known to be of the tall stock. That particular lady was tall with a legendary batty as shymex would call it and the persona was sth else. You know this much ladies with an above average sense of humor.

I must however note here that shes Ijebu on her maternal side and egba on the other. Make your conclusions.

Here's mine: Ijegba rocks!

naptu2:

How did I miss that?

pa kats and pa naptu2 both should work.

olu_kenzo :

I know man. If not for intermarriages, the Egbas were known to be of the tall stock. That particular lady was tall with a legendary batty as shymex would call it and the persona was sth else. You know this much ladies with an above average sense of humor.

I must however note here that shes Ijebu on her maternal side and egba on the other. Make your conclusions.

Here's mine: Ijegba rocks!

Lmao @ the batty talk!

From my research and the chics I've been meeting of late - it seems the Ekiti and Ibadan chics are winning in that department. Ekiti chics have got body for days but dem chics love playing reverse psychology. Only an Ekiti chic would act like she's not on it today and end up lipsing you the next day. But Ibadan chics have got razor mouths for days!!

As for Egba chics - dem chics there are beauty redefined with proportionate bodies. And my Ijebu chics are exotic as fvck but they love to party and have fun. Anyway, I've got the codes to decrypt whatever encryption they have got - holla at the rasta love-vendor!!

Mayor_of_Lagos: In response to those suggesting Bini in Lagos is a different ethnicity to Yoruba in Lagos, read the following and reflect on why we dont have Ogiso in Lagos.

It think this account is the most popular in the academia.

ShymmexLion:

Lmao @ the batty talk!

From my research and the chics I've been meeting of late - it seems the Ekiti and Ibadan chics are winning in that department. Ekiti chics have got body for days but dem chics love playing reverse psychology. Only an Ekiti chic would act like she's not on it today and end up lipsing you the next day. But Ibadan chics have got razor mouths for days!!

As for Egba chics - dem chics there are beauty redefined with proportionate bodies. And my Ijebu chics are exotic as fvck but they love to party and have fun. Anyway, I've got the codes to decrypt whatever encryption they have got - holla at the rasta love-vendor!!

Hey I am supposed to be at work here!

I don't get to meet so many ladies because of my career path and/or social disposition. Thank God for pen and paper, and now the internet for folks like me. They say its being introverted or sth. But I however mix well in my comfort zone.

I have not met so many Ekiti ladies, so I wouldn't know much. And yes sir! the razor sharp mouth is a TM of the ibadans, male and female alike. The egbas have got it too, but you are never going to out talk an Ibadan person "tani baba re!" (who is your father!)

olu_kenzo :

Hey I am supposed to be at work here!

I don't get to meet so many ladies because of my career path and/or social disposition. Thank God for pen and paper, and now the internet for folks like me. They say its being introverted or sth. But I however mix well in my comfort zone.

I have not met so many Ekiti ladies, so I wouldn't know much. And yes sir! the razor sharp mouth is a TM of the ibadans, male and female alike. The egbas have got it too, but you are never going to out talk an Ibadan person "tani baba re!" (who is your father!)

Bwahahaha @ Ibadan's and their mouths!!!

I just started meeting Ekiti chics of late and 'em chics are blessed in all departments. I don't know what they eat but they've got the juice.

I'm on my way to work as well - but you know a brother gatts be on the look out for 'em chics. They need our love!

Adm. Yamamoto:


I don't know what you are trying to prove running around like a headless chicken. After wasting time writing crap taken from empty air, the point is => IBOS are visitors in Lagos! => Temporary residency will never amount to permanent residency or citizenship if Nigeria collapses. => While Nigeria remains, we will assert our authority and ownership on the land of our fathers. => Your last point is applicable in iboland, NOT in Yorubaland. We were prosperous long before ibos were discovered in the forests in the early 1900s. Till today, Germany, Japan, etc are attached to their lands, you can visit or "settle" there while you are there but you will NEVER become a German citizen. You should be worried about your land for in Yorubaland SW, your opinion and presence on how we build the lands of our fathers is completely irrelevant and not required!

If you don't know what I am trying to prove on THIS thread I advise you to go through my posts hereon slowly.
Meanwhile just to refute your assertion about German citizenship read this:

Citizenship Further information: Nationality law

Under previous German law, children born to foreigners in Germany were not entitled to German citizenship by birth. This was modified in 1991. In 2000, legislation was passed which conferred German citizenship on the German-born children of foreigners (born after 1990), and the naturalisation process was made easier, although dual citizenship is only permitted to citizens of the EU and Switzerland and any other national possessing it (including citizens of Turkey) by virtue of birth must choose between the ages of 18 and 23 which citizenship she or he wishes to retain, and renounce their other passport. If one parent is German, a dual citizen is not required to give up the German citizenship if they keep the other citizenship. These strict limits on dual citizenship are criticised by liberal parties in Germany and institutions which promote German-Turkish relations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany

That my people may no longer PERISH for lack of KNOWLEDGE!!!

ShymmexLion:

The Ijebu's were never under Oyo. Even when others were breaking away, the Ijebu's were already independent. That was the same way PhysicsQED was trying to claim that Benin subjugated Ijebu based on some lies before Terracotta busted the lies. It seems everyone wants to claim Ijebu subjugation without any proof(s). Damn!!! The great Jebusites!

You do like controversy don't you? I don't think you should misrepresent my posting just because something I might have stated doesn't sit well with you.

I wasn't going to comment in this thread even with the multiple mentions of Benin and Bini here and there, but since I'm being called out by name for no reason , I might as well say something to clear up this claim against my username.

I have never brought up the issue of Benin and Ijebu on this forum. It has only ever been brought up by other people to me (first by you in an older thread, then later by TerraCotta in another thread, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me). In your case, you literally asked me something very much like, "if Benin took over Lagos, why didn't they ever conquer Ijebu, which was right next door" to which I responded that Benin tradition held that, in fact, they conquered Ijebu long before they established the war camp at Lagos. As far as TerraCotta and the Ijebu claim, he brought it up, and I told him that the arguments that I had seen for the claim being false were rather weak, and that we would have to find stronger arguments to actually dismiss the claim easily so that the claim that keeps being repeated in the academic literature is understood to have no basis. He then proceeded to present different arguments from the ones I said were weak, but all of these arguments he presented were based on serious misconceptions and misunderstandings.

Unfortunately, in both instances, it doesn't seem to me that those bringing up the issue have taken enough time to try and understand the plausibility of the claim itself or the background of some of the sources in which the claim occurs before criticizing it.

As far as "busting" the "lies", I have to say that although the basis of his Pereira vs. Dapper criticism was rather weak (I suspect it was based on Saburi Biobaku's misunderstanding of Pereira as a source vs. Dapper as a source, as expressed in Biobaku's 1973 book), I don't actually have much of a problem with his objection to what Dapper's sources claimed. Even though the length of my response on that Dapper/Pereira stuff may not make it look that way, his dismissal of that part of Dapper's description is not much of an issue for me in the context of our discussion. I would certainly accept his conclusion (dismissing what Dapper wrote on Ijebu and Benin) as acceptable, even if the basis of his actual argument was very weak, simply because I don't consider works like Dapper's free of error.

On the other hand, although there are obviously errors in Egharevba's work, the content of his criticism of Egharevba and Egharevba's statement of the claim of conquest of Ijebu is highly inaccurate and misleading overall. I haven't really commented on that yet because there's more to correct there, so there will be a bit too much to type up without taking up too much of my time and getting in the way of more important things.

There are more incorrect or misleading statements in what TerraCotta wrote as a response to me besides the ones that I already commented on but I left the thread alone because I've had other concerns, so it would be a distraction to comment at length on the rest of what he wrote. Unfortunately, it usually takes more effort to correct inaccurate, incorrect, or misleading statements than it does to come up with those arguments/statements.

Also, I should say that it seems that neither me or TerraCotta is capable of real objectivity on that issue - in my case, my background would be in the way, and in his case, he has already stated his strong admiration for the Ijebu people/culture, so the problem of approaching the issue with a little too much sentimentality is clearly an obstacle for him.

Finally, please attempt to look at the issue a bit more rationally: in the past few days, in your "Yorubas after the fall of the Oyo empire" thread in the culture section, you have posted various articles on the various Yoruba groups. One of these articles, on the Ijebu, states near the end of the article, that the Ijebu did not have a strong military compared to some of their neighbors:

ShymX:
Unlike other Yoruba towns and kingdoms, Ijẹbu did not have strong military; rather it relied on “mercenaries”.

http://yorupedia.com/subjects/yoruba-from-19th-to-date/after-the-fall/

https://www.nairaland.com/1408443/yorubas-after-fall-oyo-empire#17615298

Now there's a book, Yoruba Warfare in the Nineteenth Century, by J.F. Ade Ajayi, where the author mentions (citing a published source) that among the outside mercenaries hired by the Ijebu during the 19th century wars were mercenaries from Benin. Whether or not that particular claim in Ade Ajayi's book is exactly true could be debated, of course. But assuming that there were even a bit of truth to it, I think it wouldn't hurt to ask, between the state that was supposedly exporting mercenaries even when in decline (in the 19th century), and the state that supposedly "did not have a strong military" and had to import mercenaries, why is it so controversial to think that the former state could have conquered the latter at some time? If you believe what you've been posting, why would it be so difficult for you to believe that the conquest of a kingdom which supposedly did not have a strong military by another kingdom is some sort of highly implausible scenario?

Regardless of what your conclusion on the Benin-Ijebu stuff eventually is, don't think I "want to claim Ijebu subjugation without any proof." If I was interested in doing so, I probably would have at least mentioned the issue at some point before you or other posters did.

omonnakoda:
No this is not true. The Colony of Lagos refers to Lagos Island,Ikoyi Victoria Island up to Ebute Metta. In fact it does not cover the whole of Lagos State as we know it today.
I suggest you read this ;
http://libsysdigi.library.illinois.edu/ilharvest/Africana/Books2011-05/3064634/3064634_1898_lagos/3064634_1898_lagos_opt.pdf

e.g There are significant parts of Lagos State today e.g Epe.Ikorodu that were and still are Ijebu territory.These were part of the Western Region after independence,added to Lagos State in 1967 and were never part of the FEDERAL CAPITAL.
The British produced annual reports on THE COLONY OF LAGOS such as this one in `1898 but I do not have time now to paste images of the report.Any one who has time can help us or even create a thread.
After establishing the Colony of Lagos in 1861 the British sought to trade with the rest of Yorubaland but faced obstruction from the Ijebus and eventually subdued them militarily in 1892 as they did with other parts of the interior
.These were generally referred to as the "Protectorate of the Western Province" and then The Colony and Protectorate of Western Province . Ilaro e.g was subdued in 1893,Ilorin in 1897 etc.

The Colony of Lagos came about by an entirely different Treaty agreement to that with other places in Yorubaland(Protectorate}

If the British had not conquered the Ijebus in 1891 I do not see how an 1891 Census could be referring to SW Nigeria

There was nothing like colony and protectorate of western province. What existed was colony and protectorate of lagos,which covered the whole of SW of today,except owo axis,which was part of protectorate of southern Nigeria,which represents today's SE and SS,with headquarters at Calabar.

The almagation of colony of lagos(today's Sw) with the protectorate southern nigeria in 1906 by sir walter egerton gave rise to the colony and protectorate of southern nigeria, with the people of former protecterate of southern Nigeria losing out, as calabar was replaced with lagos as the administrative headquaters of the newly amalgamated entity.

This is history as 'we' know it.

PhysicsQED

You still haven't provided any substantial proof of the conquest of Ijebuland by Benin. At least, if Benin sujugated the Ijebu's at one time or the other, in the past, there should be elements of Benin culture (Even if not Benin crown in the case of Eko and other Benin colonies) in Ijebuland, like the Benin's have in all its conquered territories - and same with the elements of Yoruba culture Oyo have in all its conquered territories. You need to cite which elements of Ijebu culture have their origins in Benin.

Yes, Ijebu's did use a few Benin mercenaries - just as it used Ibadan and other Yoruba subgroup's mercenaries. However, by your conclusions, one would assume that Ibadan and all these other Yoruba subgroups also subjugated the Ijebu's. However that wasn't the case.

Also, as Terracotta pointed out on the other thread, the claim of Ijebu subjugation by the Benin's only came from one source, in the Benin palace. Same with the Ijebu subjugation by Oyo. However, none has been able to provide substantial proofs for this. And the Ijebu's have vehemently denied that it happened.

Ijebu's can also claim that it subjugated the Benin's in the past by laying claims to the worship of Olokun by the Benin's. The only two riverine/coastal groups close to the Benin's who worship Olokun are the Ijebu's and Itsekiri's. And with the Itsekiri's, the Ijebu group which formed part of today's Itsekiri group took the Olokun worship to Warri. The other groups that are part of the Itsekiri's (Ilaje's, Ijesa's and Igala) have never at any point in their history worshipped Olokun. So evidently, we can say the Olokun worship got into Benin via the Ijebu's.

Finally, anyone could claim dominion over other groups (just as Olu_kenzo did with the Egba's earlier on this thread) and most do it based on fallacies to boost the pseudo-greatness of their group (not taking anything away from the might and imperialistic nature of ancient Benin). However, when there's no substantial proof to back it up and the other group has come out to vehemently deny that it ever happened - then you have to discount the claims. I've seen people claim that Benin empire got to present day Togo and Ghana, and that the name for Benin (country) came from Benin empire. However, every student of history knows that these are bogus assertions which have no place in the history books.

PS: Terracotta isn't Ijebu, he's most likely from the Oyo/Ibadan axis. And he also vehemently disagreed with the Oyo claims that it subjugated the Ijebu's in the past. He's the most objective on this subject-matter. Yes, he admires the Ijebu's, just as a lot of people including, Chief Negro_ntns/Dudu_negro, does. However that doesn't negate his objectivity since he also argued against the claims made by his own Yoruba group. Ijebu's have a great history and culture - and it's only right that tons of people admire the exploits of the Ijebu's and what they contributed to African history.

Shalom!

Asolab: ,,,,,,,,,,,,no b ya fault na because of ya blooda dt brought yhu to lagos to av a view of d famous yoruba city LAGOS

yoruba city kwa?,u guys need to wake up to the reality at hand,lagos has been OVERRAN by igbos!!

pazienza:

There was nothing like colony and protectorate of western province. What existed was colony and protectorate of lagos,which covered the whole of SW of today,except owo axis,which was part of protectorate of southern Nigeria,which represents today's SE and SS,with headquarters at Calabar.

The almagation of colony of lagos(today's Sw) with the protectorate southern nigeria in 1906 by sir walter egerton gave rise to the colony and protectorate of southern nigeria, with the people of former protecterate of southern Nigeria losing out, as calabar was replaced with lagos as the administrative headquaters of the newly amalgamated entity.

This is history as 'we' know it.

SE was under Royal Niger Company Charter and was later traded to the Colonial government as a settlement for British control hinterland.

kingthreat:

People like you are next to be deported to Biafra by Fashola.

unfortunately that will only happen in ur oily head,once the war for nigeria ends,we ar gonna come for lagos...

^^^Stop derailing the thread, mate.