Joagbaje:

Don't try to play the holier than thou card here. This is about narrating an experience not glorifying the devil. When paul narrated his experiences even his challenges and suffering , from false brethren, shipwreck, fighting with beast at Ephesus and how alexander did him much evil .if you were in his day you would have said he was doing self pity.

I called relevant people to contribute . I didn't call those who don't . I didn't expect many post on this thread . My plan was if I dindnt get any response . I leave the matter . But some guys just chose to hijack the thread and on thing is leading to the other.

The people that I mentioned were totally set free . So I wasn't confuse at all on how to handle the devils. Tha SMS thing was just a strange thing . And most experiences are universal that's why I wanted to sample opinion. I only expected at least 2 or three people to share their experience if there need be.

If the devil can tamper with phones and computer , the Holy Ghost can do much more for our Favour . Every christian has power to cast out devils. So no one is glorifying him.

Lol..Joagbaje I believe you are in the deep end of the pool...so you are still stuck on the idea that devil sent you an SMS... Okay ooooooooo

Joagbaje:

Don't try to play the holier than thou card here. This is about narrating an experience not glorifying the devil. When paul narrated his experiences even his challenges and suffering , from false brethren, shipwreck, fighting with beast at Ephesus and how alexander did him much evil .if you were in his day you would have said he was doing self pity.

I called relevant people to contribute . I didn't call those who don't . I didn't expect many post on this thread . My plan was if I dindnt get any response . I leave the matter . But some guys just chose to hijack the thread and on thing is leading to the other.

The people that I mentioned were totally set free . So I wasn't confuse at all on how to handle the devils. Tha SMS thing was just a strange thing . And most experiences are universal that's why I wanted to sample opinion. I only expected at least 2 or three people to share their experience if there need be.

If the devil can tamper with phones and computer , the Holy Ghost can do much more for our Favour . Every christian has power to cast out devils. So no one is glorifying him.

Bro, Paul experience didnt elevate d devil, he didnt ascribed to him wat doesnt belong to him. Infact such experience exposes d devil's weakness (defeated one), but ds Op...
U cant expect two or three to share experience online, i believ u kno better ppl around who u can talk to on ds. And if d ppl were totally set free then thr is no need for d Op in first place. wat matters is dt they ar delivered. D devil wont tamper wit tins lik dt except by influencing ppl's mind. actually if u recieved d mgs as claimed then d lady sent it. Talk to her, tell her to b bold that she is free now, she will confess.

From all indications, the girl in question may be suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). It is a mental sickness whereby a personality developed other unnatural personalities within the same body acting these personalities under different names, behaviors, characters etc. For instance, she may be Ngozi, a good nurse and also Tola, a terrible and cruel mother, and also Aisha, a killer girlfriend etc and at different times unconsciously. Ngozi will act like a normal Igbo woman with all the idiosyncracies combined with her education. Same for the Yoruba Tola and the Hausa Aisha. It is another level and dimension of insanity and many people we termed as mad in Nigeria today are simply suffering from MPD.

Of course, you may call that demons if you wish after all, we are still in the dark ages as occasioned by the monumental neglect of the basic sectors - healthcare, education, infrastructure etc by successive governments and leaders, so, we apply religion to all things and pretend as if we are the holiest on earth. But in the West, it is cured combining hypnotism with science.

nokingasgod: From all indications, the girl in question may be suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). It is a mental sickness whereby a personality developed other unnatural personalities within the same body acting these personalities under different names, behaviors, characters etc. For instance, she may be Ngozi, a good nurse and also Tola, a terrible and cruel mother, and also Aisha, a killer girlfriend etc and at different times unconsciously. Ngozi will act like a normal Igbo woman with all the idiosyncracies combined with her education. Same for the Yoruba Tola and the Hausa Aisha. It is another level and dimension of insanity and many people we termed as mad in Nigeria today are simply suffering from MPD.

Of course, you may call that demons if you wish after all, we are still in the dark ages as occasioned by the monumental neglect of the basic sectors - healthcare, education, infrastructure etc by successive governments and leaders, so, we apply religion to all things and pretend as if we are the holiest on earth. But in the West, it is cured combining hypnotism with science.

Gbam!!!! May Oluwa continue to illuminate your path

nokingasgod: From all indications, the girl in question may be suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). It is a mental sickness whereby a personality developed other unnatural personalities within the same body acting these personalities under different names, behaviors, characters etc. For instance, she may be Ngozi, a good nurse and also Tola, a terrible and cruel mother, and also Aisha, a killer girlfriend etc and at different times unconsciously. Ngozi will act like a normal Igbo woman with all the idiosyncracies combined with her education. Same for the Yoruba Tola and the Hausa Aisha. It is another level and dimension of insanity and many people we termed as mad in Nigeria today are simply suffering from MPD.

Of course, you may call that demons if you wish after all, we are still in the dark ages as occasioned by the monumental neglect of the basic sectors - healthcare, education, infrastructure etc by successive governments and leaders, so, we apply religion to all things and pretend as if we are the holiest on earth. But in the West, it is cured combining hypnotism with science.

Becos d Op is wrong doesnt neglect d fact dt ppl can be influenced by d devil. Actually d system (governing) of d world itself daily shows how effective his influences are.

U can call it anyname (MPD, SSD or any). d fact remain dt science discovery is still in infant stage and cant register reality beyond its senses.

ajayikayod:

Becos d Op is wrong doesnt neglect d fact dt ppl can be influenced by d devil. Actually d system (governing) of d world itself daily shows how effective his influences are.

U can call it anyname (MPD, SSD or any). d fact remain dt science discovery is still in infant stage and cant register reality beyond its senses.

If religion knows it all why would you think governments and large coporate bodies invest billions of dollars in Research &Development ?!!!!!
because they love wasting money?


Please leave science as what it is, most people that are 'possesed' have serious mental and psychological issues.

Remember once upon a time the church believed the earth was flat and even killed a christian for saying otherwise.

Most pastors generate these fears to keep the people stuck,most people worship God out of either fear of hell or of demons or both.

GeneralShepherd:

If religion knows it all why would you think governments and large coporate bodies invest billions of dollars in Research &Development ?!!!!!
because they love wasting money?

investing in R& is a great direction which will lead science gradually to the reality dt it is limited in scope and understanding. We are not against science and we understand its zeal for knowlegde, but it has to wait till it embrace its weakness and seek light. lik i said, science is still infant, 80% of wat u see today thru science will hav vanished years to come thru progressive maturtity.

Please leave science as what it is, most people that are 'possesed' have serious mental and psychological issues.

An expression dt more exposes limitation of science in human affairs

Remember once upon a time the church believed the earth was flat and even killed a christian for saying otherwise.

Actually, it was science dt believed in flat earth, the word of God showed otherwise (Isaiah 40:21-22). are u not aware dt when science is clueless, it takes a glimse from God's word.

Most pastors generate these fears to keep the people stuck,most people worship God out of either fear of hell or of demons or both.

Most ppl, not all pple. Mayb u never met d other ones who without fear of hell or demons worship God with clear understandin.

ajayikayod:

Becos d Op is wrong doesnt neglect d fact dt ppl can be influenced by d devil. Actually d system (governing) of d world itself daily shows how effective his influences are.

U can call it anyname (MPD, SSD or any). d fact remain dt science discovery is still in infant stage and cant register reality beyond its senses.

No Sir, you didn't get the point. I am not saying the op is wrong or right. What I said was that it was possible for that woman to be suffering from MPD and also that most of the ailments, predicaments and sicknesses we take to the churches and ''men of god'' are things that could be taken care of easily if there was no systemic collapse in Nigeria. Let's try to be informed and enlightened please. Are we the only people on earth that a coalition of devils, demons and other principalities are always tasking us in all spheres

ajayikayod:

investing in R& is a great direction which will lead science gradually to the reality dt it is limited in scope and understanding. We are not against science and we understand its zeal for knowlegde, but it has to wait till it embrace its weakness and seek light. lik i said, science is still infant, 80% of wat u see today thru science will hav vanished years to come thru progressive maturtity

Without science, the world would still be in the dark ages!!! Look around and tell me just one thing that has increased the quality of human life that was derived from principles in any holy book. If our Lord Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Fact is that most cases of deliverance are perfectly curable mental problems.

An expression dt more exposes limitation of science in human affairs

'Science' doesn't just mean building rockets,it is the systematic study of things, mind as in the case of psychology. There is more knowledge in science than in the bible, the bible is a guide to lead us to God not a science textbook.

The phone/laptop you are using were not derived from the book of Romans, its an accumulation of years of sweat and tears of various individuals

Actually, it was science dt believed in flat earth, the word of God showed otherwise (Isaiah 40:21-22). are u not aware dt when science is clueless, it takes a glimse from God's word.

Sorry my bad,the church once held that the earth was the centre of the solar system. Which turned out to be wrong!!!!

Most ppl, not all pple. Mayb u never met d other ones who without fear of hell or demons worship God with clear understandin.

Of course I cannot say all people, because yes I've seen people without fear of hell nor demons that worship God

nokingasgod:

No Sir, you didn't get the point. I am not saying the op is wrong or right. What I said was that it was possible for that woman to be suffering from MPD and also that most of the ailments, predicaments and sicknesses we take to the churches and ''men of god'' are things that could be taken care of easily if there was no systemic collapse in Nigeria. Let's try to be informed and enlightened please. Are we the only people on earth that a coalition of devils, demons and other principalities are always tasking us in all spheres

I couldn't have said it any better and also the OP is out of tune with reality

InesQor:

I was waiting for this, bros. If I start on it this thread will derail. If you're interested we can debate it elsewhere?

Just in case you're not interested, my stance is below:

There's little to no reason to accept the sons of God were fallen angels, rather than the descendants of Seth, son of Adam, son of God; intermarrying the descendants of Cain the cursed who wasn't on God's side.

Beautiful!!!

Absolutely true.

nokingasgod:
Let's try to be informed and enlightened please. Are we the only people on earth that a coalition of devils, demons and other principalities are always tasking us in all spheres

Lmaooo

ajayikayod:

I notice u giv so much credit to satan and demons, elevating them beyond thr abilities. U seems to even compare them to b in same class as God.
Bro, if u study ur bible well, u ll kno dt d devil is d most stupid personalty in d scripture who hides behind myths lik ur Op to decieve ppl.
U kno i asked u earlier, who actually is casting out who, d demon or u becos u sound lik u dont kno wat nxt to do. Even ppl of common sense here seems to kno wat next to do, how much more u (a new creation). wat does satan has dt he can giv? D earth is d lord...

My advice. Next time u hav issues lik ds, try talk to fellow christians around u for clarity or meet ur seniors dt showed u ds way of deliverance not bringing it to online forum whr ppl of all sorts will demean "the church" and create an unneccessary atmosphere. Ask urself, at d end, will ds Op glorify Christ and the church or make little of it?
Thr ar believers here doin great works (preaching, enlightening and praying regularly) on several individuals on nairaland so as to win them and expose the eternal defeat of satan, so bro, make d work b easier for us. Thanks.

Many of your comments on this thread border on spiritual arrogance. It's obvious you are not familiar with deliverance ministries; and hence, a little humility from you about what you're not familiar with wouldn't be inappropriate. Suggesting that the Op is either lying or ignorant is uncalled for.

ajayikayod:

Bro. Pls stop lying online and creating wrong impressions on christianity. Go spend those time u r using to cast out demons on studying God's word. Dt ll help u alot not to ask such questions again. Even a young 12 year old bible student knows better. I wonder in whose name u r casting out, dt demons hav d gut to respond against. U r used to nollywood movies.

With wat u said is happening to u now, who exactly is casting who. U or d devil?

Praise God, you are winning souls on Nairaland, but it is the Holy Spirit that win souls. So how does he make your work less easy for you? If you are going to admonish a brother do so in love, it's only by the love we have for one another that people will know that we are His disciples (John 13:35).

GeneralShepherd:

Without science, the world would still be in the dark ages!!! Look around and tell me just one thing that has increased the quality of human life that was derived from principles in any holy book. If our Lord Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Fact is that most cases of deliverance are perfectly curable mental problems.



'Science' doesn't just mean building rockets,it is the systematic study of things, mind as in the case of psychology. There is more knowledge in science than in the bible, the bible is a guide to lead us to God not a science textbook.

The phone/laptop you are using were not derived from the book of Romans, its an accumulation of years of sweat and tears of various individuals

All ur claims above still exposes science weakness. Struggling and sweating over years to prove things dt were expressly stated in d scripture. over 2500years to believ in a round earth, dts lik waiting til eternity.

See, the life of man is not contained in laptops or structures and who actually told u we are no more in dark age, science? i bet u d age now is darker than those times. If u want to talk about lasting knowlegde, Science has failed d world more than anyother sects, from evolution theory to unpredictability of end of human race. u kno wat gambling is? dts exactly wat science does for now and when anytime it hits jackpot, ppl shout claiming its advancement. Lik i told u b4, i dont hav issue wit science or its discoveries, its been great to hav such, but science will continue to strife lik an infant trying to understand its environment.

Are u aware dt science cant even understand fully d causes of d changes in a pregnant woman? Wat do u say about d confusion on nine planets u were tot? If science can dwell in such ignorance at human level, how can it understand God. It ll need over a million year experiments on its telescopic equipment to register God and come to a full understanding of d earth.

Sorry my bad,the church once held that the earth was the centre of the solar system. Which turned out to be wrong!!!!

can u give me scripture and verse in d bible for ds or is it just human opinion on d scripture?

Of course I cannot say all people, because yes I've seen people without fear of hell nor demons that worship God

U r neither thr or here, if u r here then u ll kno dt d word of God is d final authority over any human opinion or experience. Lets kno whr u stand.

apostle007:

Many of your comments on this thread border on spiritual arrogance. It's obvious you are not familiar with deliverance ministries; and hence, a little humility from you about what you're not familiar with wouldn't be inappropriate. Suggesting that the Op is either lying or ignorant is uncalled for.

Praise God, you are winning souls on Nairaland, but it is the Holy Spirit that win souls. If you are going to admonish a brother do so in love, it's only by the love we have for one another that people will know that we are His disciples (John 13:35).

@apostle007

Deliverance ministries? who gave it 2u? Bro dont let us go into dt. Casting out demons is bread of a believer, dont enslave them becos of thr ignorance. Well, when a believer want is quick and fix solutions ds is wat they end up in. Mayb u can show me a believer who needed deliverance in d scripture or Nigeria's believer ar different?
Jesus, Paul dont spare those who come publicly to demean his work by claiming special influence or ministries to enslave men, i wont too.

@ajayikayod
1. I agree the issue of casting out devils is something we shouldn't come online to discuss that doesn't mean you cant ask fellow ministers their opinion over a matter. Iron sharpens Iron

2. I disagree with you, there are people who are called into deliverance ministry, they have gifts and grace for that particular purpose. Whereas deliverance is every Christian ministry, these people get it done faster just like some are called into healing ministry, whereas every Christian is suppose to pray for healing with faith.


In all, discretion should be allowed when bringing some issues online sha. Some are not even born talk-less of being spiritual babes whereas some are just here to do the bidden of the defeated ones.

I believe they can, since dey have intellect and they do speak. They actually used her hands 2 send the msg and deleted them thereafter, they are warning you because u threatened dem bur didnt cast dem out. there girl herself has no idea of wat happned.

In Yuzedo's voice I give up... Naija is a long way from home.

*exits thread*

ajayikayod:

@apostle007

Deliverance ministries? who gave it 2u? Bro dont let us go into dt. Casting out demons is bread of a believer, dont enslave them becos of thr ignorance. Well, when a believer want is quick and fix solutions ds is wat they end up in. Mayb u can show me a believer who needed deliverance in d scripture or Nigeria's believer ar different?
Jesus, Paul dont spare those who come publicly to demean his work by claiming special influence or ministries to enslave men, i wont too.

You've been bragging about your Bible Knowledge, and yet you exude little understanding. Merely knowing the letters of the bible does not give you knowledge.

Not all believers are on the same level of faith or knowledge, else the Church wouldn't need Elders. So don't tell me that "casting out demons is bread of a believer." Or are you implying that those who can't cast out demons aren't believers?

As to believers in scripture who needed deliverance, Paul that you quoted readily comes to mind. He asked for deliverance not once, but thrice. He wanted God to remove the messenger of Satan afflicting him, until God renewed his mind to that effect. Is that deliverance? Unequivocal "yes!"

You see, deliverance is not at all restricted to casting out demons. Breaking evil covenants is deliverance; casting down strongholds is deliverance; renewing your mind is deliverance; destroying spells and enchantments is deliverance.

Having said that, deliverance can come in many different ways: through praise and worship, strong faith, prayer session, evangelism, quiet time, including Bible study.

ajayikayod:

Casting out demons is bread of a believer,

Have you cast one out before? How much experience have you? It's not about talking letters and theory you know. The thread was specifically for those who have experience in such ministration. Not theologians .

I hard from a friend that all the disciples of Jesus used Nokia 3310 .Pls can someone confirm that for me in the Bible

Joagbaje:

I didnt want to go into this, but yes? Its spirituslly illegal but it hapoens .I won't go further. But there had been cases of people experiencing missing monies. MONEY DISSAPEARed. . Not stollen By man ,it vanished. It only stopped when they were prayed for. There are cases where someone experiencing spiritual husband thing recieves physical money from that being and spend it. There have been cases where such spirit brings physical clothes to the victim. Marks and spencer product! . Bags of clothes

The only issue is. Satan doesn't give good things that last . He eventually destroy his friends.victims He has no friends

Super stories! Keep telling these fallacies to dummie. How about demons making cars, computers and cell phones?

ajayikayod:



Can d builder of statue of liberty lift it up? Even though d builder of d statue cant, u definately dont need God to lift a rock, i can.

Exactly where did the builders of the statue of liberty claim to be omnipotent? What are you on about?

Simple question, can your omnipotent god build a rock so heavy he cannot carry it?

manny4life:

Hehe, I believe what I believe, the devil manifests in different ways, so manifesting in human form with a phone with be a surprise. After all, when Devil wanted to deceive eve, he manifested in form of a serpent, when Devil tempted Jesus, how did devil manifest? Was it not physically? Yes I believe what I want to believe.

This here shall remain, and always, technically correct.

It makes no sense to deride the op when you accept equally ridiculous notions.

apostle007:

You've been bragging about your Bible Knowledge, and yet you exude little understanding. Merely knowing the letters of the bible does not give you knowledge.

Bro, u one can brag on d knowlegde of His word. Explaining reality from d scripture is not bragging.

Not all believers are on the same level of faith or knowledge, else the Church wouldn't need Elders. So don't tell me that "casting out demons is bread of a believer." Or are you implying that those who can't cast out demons aren't believers?

Mark16:15-18, And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues...
If casting out devils require levels or elders then speaking in new tongues should require dt too. I hav to attain a level to speak in tongues.

Act 10:46, For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. (New convert)
Act 19:6, And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Convert too).

If Jesus mean "speaking in tongues" requirement is believ in Him, then bro, casting out devils is not exempted.

As to believers in scripture who needed deliverance, Paul that you quoted readily comes to mind. He asked for deliverance not once, but thrice. He wanted God to remove the messenger of Satan afflicting him, until God renewed his mind to that effect. Is that deliverance? Unequivocal "yes!"

Paul? reading dt chapter in totality should show u dt d mean of paul's "messenger of Satan or torn in d flesh" is not even close to wat u believ it is. If Paul needs deliverance, i bet u who can escape. Carefully study Paul, not even once will u see him talking on deliverance in d light of wat u understand. A clear understanding of deliverance will show u dt most things u said here demean d position of a believer in christ (Complete In Him)

You see, deliverance is not at all restricted to casting out demons. Breaking evil covenants is deliverance; casting down strongholds is deliverance; renewing your mind is deliverance; destroying spells and enchantments is deliverance.
Having said that, deliverance can come in many different ways: through praise and worship, strong faith, prayer session, evangelism, quiet time, including Bible study.

Bro, remove renewing ur mind from dt list becos dt makes every believer to need deliverance thru out a life time becos renewing is a continuous process which is a function of knowledge except u tell me dt some ar above renewing now.

If u believe ds scriptures in its totality most tins u said here about a believer wont come out of ur mouth.

Col 1:13, Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Heb2:14, Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.

Believers are d casters not d castee, ds is our right in Christ. Enlightenment from d word of God is wat he needs. U kno sometimes i wonder d kind of shared apartment d demon will hav with d HolySpirit within. Truth is, a man can never b in submission to two opposing spirits. Its either u r of God's Spirit or not.

Joagbaje:

Have you cast one out before? How much experience have you? It's not about talking letters and theory you know. The thread was specifically for those who have experience in such ministration. Not theologians .

U kno wat amazed me? U talk so big lik casting out devils is sometin dt require special experience or power.
Lik Jesus sent to John d Baptist, many shrine destroyed, many mad men received sanity, oppressed delivered, men saved. Confirm urself whether dt is theology or Power of God.

I dont need to tell u of any of my experience, u hav d word of God. But i assure u, anyone who cant do dt in our church is likely a newcomer.

Finally, Gal 5:1, Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage

wiegraf:

Exactly where did the builders of the statue of liberty claim to be omnipotent? What are you on about?

Simple question, can your omnipotent god build a rock so heavy he cannot carry it?

Not just a rock, He definitely can move d universe.

ajayikayod:

Not just a rock, He definitely can move d universe.

You do notice you've just stated he can NOT build a rock he cannot carry, yes?

ajayikayod:

U kno wat amazed me? U talk so big lik casting out devils is sometin dt require special experience or power.
[/b]

. The thread is not for everybody. If have experience in casting out devils .you will talk less. Every christian have the power . But there is experience required. Other gifts are required . Discernment etc. don't just come and blow theory. If asked a question about evangelism and my experience with an Alhaji , I expect soul winners to respond. I specified who I want on the thread . Not theologians .

Shamback or smith shared in his book how he came to Africa and ministered to a witch doctor and in the night , satan visited him , heavy wind which flung his bed from on end to the room to the other, when he woke up he commanded the devil to come back and re arange the room . The wind came back in and re aranged the scattered room. That's an experience. If I call ministers who flow in certain grace to share there experience on how they handle their cases . It doesn't involve you. You mustn't read it and if you read you must comment. It's for those who it's related to.

Joagbaje:

. The thread is not for everybody. If have experience in casting out devils .you will talk less. Every christian have the power . But there is experience required. Other gifts are required . Discernment etc. don't just come and blow theory. If asked a question about evangelism and my experience with an Alhaji , I expect soul winners to respond. I specified who I want on the thread . Not theologians .

Shamback or smith shared in his book how he came to Africa and ministered to a witch doctor and in the night , satan visited him , heavy wind which flung his bed from on end to the room to the other, when he woke up he commanded the devil to come back and re arange the room . The wind came back in and re aranged the scattered room. That's an experience. If I call ministers who flow in certain grace to share there experience on how they handle their cases . It doesn't involve you. You mustn't read it and if you read you must comment. It's for those who it's related to.

Bro, every christian article relates to every believer, we only need to benchmark it with d Word as d final authority.

I will ask u,which should we hold to, Man experience or d Word of God, especially whn thr are contradictions?

U hav reduced a spiritual question of urs to mere human experience, quoting Shamback, quoting others except d Word of God. If i were u, Bro, i ll back it up wit Paul, Peter.. most of all Jesus. U seems not to hav enough prove from them or u feel u hav a "personal experienc" outside wat they teach?

As much as experience are wonderful in every locations or spheres, they are subject to d test of the word of God (1Thess 5:21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good). Experiences, prophecies, revelations are subject to d test of God's Word.

These are d reasons we hav so many outside now claiming to hear, see things and go about deceiving themselves and others who dere not check wit d Word and make d world ridicule things of God. Reasons we hav many TESTIPHONIES (inaccurate testimonies) all around.

Bro, human experience can fail, prophesies can change or not accurate but God's Word abide.

I discovered u already hav a set mind on ur Op, becos u hav strongly rejected those who oppose it even whn they pointed u to d scriptures, that left me thinking why did u actually posted it.

Finally, bro. in all my experience in ministry with documented manifestations of d Spirit Power, Woe to me if i dere place my experience above God's Word, i dere not come out and try judge issues based only on experience or my ability. The Word first, others follows.

Joagbaje:


Shamback or smith shared in his book how he came to Africa and ministered to a witch doctor and in the night , satan visited him , heavy wind which flung his bed from on end to the room to the other, when he woke up he commanded the devil to come back and re arange the room . The wind came back in and re aranged the scattered room.

Joe Agbaje, the Demon Whisperer.

ajayikayod:

Mark16:15-18, And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues...
If casting out devils require levels or elders then speaking in new tongues should require dt too. I hav to attain a level to speak in tongues.

Act 10:46, For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. (New convert)
Act 19:6, And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Convert too).

If Jesus mean "speaking in tongues" requirement is believ in Him, then bro, casting out devils is not exempted.

Paul? reading dt chapter in totality should show u dt d mean of paul's "messenger of Satan or torn in d flesh" is not even close to wat u believ it is. If Paul needs deliverance, i bet u who can escape. Carefully study Paul, not even once will u see him talking on deliverance in d light of wat u understand. A clear understanding of deliverance will show u dt most things u said here demean d position of a believer in christ (Complete In Him)...

The implication of Paul needing deliverance is beside the point. And whatever meaning you assign to Paul's "messenger of satan" is also beside the point. What is clear in the Bible is that Paul was tormented by it and needed relief and asked to be free of it! If that is not needing deliverance, I wonder what is!

You implied that Paul didn't preach deliverance. Nor did he preach Baptism. Jesus went through baptism. Believers are still being baptized, what then is your point? That Paul didn't preach deliverance is irrelevant to the validity of the ministry of deliverance.

The scriptures you quoted are promises made to believers, nevertheless you would exercise faith to walk in the fullness of these promises. But faith is a gift (1Cor 12:9) and also a fruit of the Spirit(Gal.5:22-23), so the exercise of faith differ from one believer to the other despite the fact that they've all accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour. If faith is a gift to one believer, to another it is a fruit of the Spirit which develops over time.

You asked me to remove renewing of the mind from the list of what deliverance is because it would make deliverance a continuous process. Not a chance! Who told you deliverance is a one time event? Else, there wouldn't be any need for believers, as demonstrated in the Lord's prayer, to pray for deliverance from evil. Nor would we need an Advocate on the right hand side of God interceding for us (Romans 8:34, note the present continuous tense). As long as the works of darkness is ongoing, deliverance will be a lifetime process until the trumpet blows.

Further more, deliverance is also a function of knowledge. And in so far as you agree that none is above renewing, then none (including Paul) should be above deliverance!

Here's the thing, every time you overcome temptations or undo any work of Satan, you are going through deliverance. Deliverance could be from sickness or anger or lust or fear or even pride. So your suggestion that no believer needed deliverance is arrogant and unwarranted. Are you implying that you are perfect and immune to sin? You see, wanting deliverance doesn't necessarily mean you've submitted to a "messenger of Satan." It could mean being tormented by it, just as in the case of Paul.

And lastly, deliverance does not in any way demean the position of a believer who lives not by works but by God's Grace.