MarkMiwerds:
Actually, my 9:50 answer was expounding on the previous answer I had written between 1 & 2 AM. Since your heart and/or greed had you blinded to what clearly was written in my earlier post, I figured I would post it again at an elementary level.



How much do you get paid for your false accusations?

A simple cross-check from you would have shown you that i referred to my 4am post which you've just replied. My 4am post addressed/answered your previous post. You should respect your age even if you don't fear God.

A simple cross check from you would reveal that your 4AM POST WAS QUESTIONING THE VERACITY OF MY EARLIER POST.

I EXPLAINED THAT POST AT 9:30, in a manner a child of the 3rd grade would have no problem understanding. It is unfortunate you just can't accept fact.

God said His holy tithes were agricultural. You can continue to try to spin your silver and gold into the fabric of the tithes all you want. But no matter how much you say the tithe is money, the Bible proves you to be wrong.

God's Word reveals that His holy tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, never collected in the New Testament Church, and never controlled by the New Testament Church. No matter how much you claim that the Church has authority to take God's holy tithes, the Bible proves you wrong.

I'll stick with what the Word of God says.

You allege that I have no fear of God, but I contend that it is just the opposite. I have a great respect for my Father. It is not me who is in blatant disregard for His Holy Word... Rather, it is you.

MarkMiwerds:
Yes, the issue was answered by me. Image just refuses to accept the Biblical proofs and undeniable facts.



Proof: Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Fact: God did not say 'And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, or of thy silver, thy gold, or thy wages is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.' He said the tithe consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.


Proof: Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Fact: God did not say the tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans, strangers in Israel & pastors on Gentile soil. His tithe was to go to people in Israel.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Fact: God said tithe was to be observed once the children of Israel crossed the Jordan and found rest from their enemies. They were not required to tithe until they entered Canaan.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Fact: God said things were to be done His way, not man's. His tithe was to be agricultural, to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land that God had promised to Jacob... Canaan. They could not have tithed money. They were not to do what seemed right in their own eyes. They were to do as God commanded.

Proof: Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Fact: The last commandment in the Bible concerning tithes, they are still the property of the sons of Levi. They are still according to the Law; i.e., agricultural.

Fact: There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church.

Fact: In the Bible, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, and tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

My dear,you missed one important question which is,"Was money a legal tender in Israel or in the regions where the Israelites lived at the time God commanded as is "CLEARLY" and "BOLDLY" written in the bible when God commanded his tithes be paid with proceeds from agricultural activities?". I just hope no body answers NO.

MarkMiwerds:
Yes, the issue was answered by me. Image just refuses to accept the Biblical proofs and undeniable facts.



Proof: Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Fact: God did not say 'And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, or of thy silver, thy gold, or thy wages is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.' He said the tithe consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.


Proof: Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Fact: God did not say the tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans, strangers in Israel & pastors on Gentile soil. His tithe was to go to people in Israel.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Fact: God said tithe was to be observed once the children of Israel crossed the Jordan and found rest from their enemies. They were not required to tithe until they entered Canaan.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Fact: God said things were to be done His way, not man's. His tithe was to be agricultural, to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land that God had promised to Jacob... Canaan. They could not have tithed money. They were not to do what seemed right in their own eyes. They were to do as God commanded.

Proof: Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Fact: The last commandment in the Bible concerning tithes, they are still the property of the sons of Levi. They are still according to the Law; i.e., agricultural.

Fact: There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church.

Fact: In the Bible, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, and tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

My dear,you missed one important question which is,"Was money a legal tender in Israel or in the regions where the Israelites lived at the time God commanded as is "CLEARLY" and "BOLDLY" written in the bible that his tithes be paid with proceeds from agricultural activities?". I just hope no body answers NO.

chysam:


My dear,you missed one important question which is,"Was money a legal tender in Israel or in the regions where the Israelites lived at the time God commanded as is "CLEARLY" and "BOLDLY" written in the bible that his tithes be paid with proceeds from agricultural activities?". I just hope no body answers NO.

The likes of image123 are already trying to prove to us they know more than God thus their 'helping' God to add money to his tithes cause God 'forgot' to state it as a tithe requirement.

We have a bigger problem happening today' other then those who have been deceived in paying tithes.

Pastors-preachers collecting Monies else where to retrieve financial Gain.

Government support, involved' working side by side with these many deceivers.

Pastors-preachers have now signed up an agreement" under the authority of world leaders.

Pushing for the new world order.

A control system, we as citizens are no-longer free.

A new world order, controlled by a one world banking system-so all countries are monitored who's spending less or more.

Covers our food supplies, water, living, all under control by a push of a button.

A new world order pushing for the one world religion.

Our Christian brothers and sisters, who are supporting these church crimes, are carrying the blood of the innocent on their hands.

Not supporting Christ, but supporting each other to their own slaughter.

Pastors-preachers, not preaching the truth about Christ and his coming back soon.

But chose to stand in their pulpits continuing to preach more lies' about financial gains.

Using Money as a substance calling people into a their earthly kingdoms.

Giving them false hopes, false healing's for what price?

Only deceiving those who chose to follow after them.

Teaching and believing your blessings comes from Money.

Money won't save you.

1 Timothy 6-Men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth, who suppose the Godliness is the means of gain.
From such with draw yourselves.

Get ready people-repent and ask for forgiveness.

Walk away from these corrupt churches, save yourselves and those around you.

The time is near.
WATCH...

Here is an excellent and simplified account of what tithing meant to Jews.
Tithing from scriptures and history was without exception agricultural. Let tithers explain who mandated them to refine/modify it to include money while restricting it to 10% and not 20% per annum and another 10% every third year
http://www.thejournal.org/studylibrary/tithe-in-the-bible/three-tithes-of-israel.html

vooks:
Here is an excellent and simplified account of what tithing meant to Jews.
Tithing from scriptures and history was without exception agricultural. Let tithers explain who mandated them to refine/modify it to include money while restricting it to 10% and not 20% per annum and another 10% every third year
http://www.thejournal.org/studylibrary/tithe-in-the-bible/three-tithes-of-israel.html

A simple common sense really. God NEVER gave man paper money. He gave man LAND as seen from the garden of Eden. It will be foolhardy for God to require paper money from man which is a medium of exchange or a legal tender used instead of the conventional and unorthodox trade by barter used for centuries.

A man's wealth is measured in land acquisition never in coins or paper money. Like i told zikkyy, the antithing mantraa of the tithes being ONLY agric is false and an error, no one is stopping the tither from SELLING a piece LAND( Joseph) and using a medium of exchange called money to give the Apostles(Acts 4:36). Abraham tithes was NEVER AGRIC. Everything we have on EARTH is gotten from land whether paper money,gold, diamond, oil, corn, wine etc. even man and animal was created from the dust of the earth.

The key word is WHETHER. leviticus is NOT a definition of tithe. Let's look at it once again.

Leviticus 27:30-33,

"And all the tithe of the land (God is taking to the children of Israel), [size=16pt]whether[/size] of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lords: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will redeem aught of his tithe, he shall add unto it a fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and that for which it is changed shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed."

Whether is a conjunction word used in indirect questions or used to offer CHOICES OR ALTERNATIVES. If it's the tither choice to offer his tenth as money to God so be it. Abel's offerings can't be the same as Cain. Jacob's vow of tithe can't be the same as Abraham. Even the Levites tithed through Abraham. In other words it predated the LAW and your life, just as Jesus predated the LAW.

If you want to use another lame and weak argument like circumcisions you can go ahead but also you will be ready to shun all dubious claims on marriage, worship, clothing and human government which have their foundation in the book of Genesis and since we know Christianity has its roots from Judaism you cannot discard one while holding on to the rest.

Moses wrote Genesis and Apart from Christ no MAN has the revelation of what God intends for his people like Moses not even Paul.

vooks:
Here is an excellent and simplified account of what tithing meant to Jews.
Tithing from scriptures and history was without exception agricultural. Let tithers explain who mandated them to refine/modify it to include money while restricting it to 10% and not 20% per annum and another 10% every third year
http://www.thejournal.org/studylibrary/tithe-in-the-bible/three-tithes-of-israel.html

Voodka, I challenge any pro-tither to "SINCERELY" answer these few questions.Providing his answers directly from the new testament scriptures where our records as "CHRISTIANS" can be found.
1.Did the early church pay or receive tithes of any kind?
2.Is there any record in the Bible showing how christians raised money to run their ministry?
3.If there is,does it have any correlation with the judaism practice of tithing?
4.All the apostles took turns in preaching to their congregations just like todays pastors do,can any pro-tither show us where they asked the congregants to tithe to them or bring foods to the storehouse of the apostles?
5.Why was it unneccessary to the apostles to slaughter animals for sacrifice and also receive tithes for their upkeep?
6.Were the Levite priests commanded to carry out their duties freely?
7.Who were commanded to carry out their duties freely and who commanded them?
8.Why is it unimportant for todays christians to raise funds in exactly the same way the early christians did?.Change of times?
9.Was the curse in Malachi also applicable to the apostles and the early christians?
10.If jesus taught that tithing is an "UNIMPORTANT" matter to a christian,who then popularised it and made it "GREATLY" important to a point of non adherance will be a hinderance to ones progress and success,against what christ taught?.
I sincere answers to the above questions would give a good christian a clue where he stands between judaism practices of old and what christ taught. The only worry I have is that no pro-tither would attempt to answer these question or try to answer using references from the gospels.

"Whether" does indeed indicate choice. And God decreed what the choices were to be... A) Seed of the land, B) Fruit of the tree & C) Sorry, God didn't give a third choice.

So it is foolhardy for God to require money but not so when it comes to redeeming the tithe? Did you know a tithe was redeemed with 120% of its estimated worth using money?

Please don't display your confusion. Paper money was non-existent. They had precious metal, gold and silver of varying weights for legal tender. Recall Judas was paid in thirty silver coins. This started LONG before Moses. Why would Achan take all the trouble to hide silver and gold in Joshua 7? Precious metal was both a store of value and unit of exchange

There was no arbitrariness in the manner in which a tithe was to be offered, it was strictly in kind and non farmers were under no obligation to tithe

Bidam:
A simple common sense really. God NEVER gave man paper money. He gave man LAND as seen from the garden of Eden. It will be foolhardy for God to require paper money from man which is a medium of exchange or a legal tender used instead of the conventional and unorthodox trade by barter used for centuries.


A man's wealth is measured in land acquisition never in coins or paper money. Like i told zikkyy, the antithing mantraa of the tithes being ONLY agric is false and an error, no one is stopping the tither from SELLING a piece LAND( Joseph) and using a medium of exchange called money to give the Apostles(Acts 4:36). Abraham tithes was NEVER AGRIC. Everything we have on EARTH is gotten from land whether paper money,gold, diamond, oil, corn, wine etc. even man and animal was created from the dust of the earth.

The key word is WHETHER. leviticus is NOT a definition of tithe. Let's look at it once again.

Leviticus 27:30-33,

"And all the tithe of the land (God is taking to the children of Israel), [size=16pt]whether[/size] of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lords: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will redeem aught of his tithe, he shall add unto it a fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and that for which it is changed shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed."

Whether is a conjunction word used in indirect questions or used to offer CHOICES OR ALTERNATIVES. If it's the tither choice to offer his tenth as money to God so be it. Abel's offerings can't be the same as Cain. Jacob's vow of tithe can't be the same as Abraham. Even the Levites tithed through Abraham. In other words it predated the LAW and your life, just as Jesus predated the LAW.

If you want to use another lame and weak argument like circumcisions you can go ahead but also you will be ready to shun all dubious claims on marriage, worship, clothing and human government which have their foundation in the book of Genesis and since we know Christianity has its roots from Judaism you cannot discard one while holding on to the rest.

Moses wrote Genesis and Apart from Christ no MAN has the revelation of what God intends for his people like Moses not even Paul.

It's vooks not voodka
If you ask one too many questions some of which are leading you may not get answers and the inability to answer you will have nothing to do with your wisdom the accuracy of your convictions

chysam:


Voodka, I challenge any pro-tither to "SINCERELY" answer these few questions.Providing his answers directly from the new testament scriptures where our records as "CHRISTIANS" can be found.
1.Did the early church pay or receive tithes of any kind?
2.Is there any record in the Bible showing how christians raised money to run their ministry?
3.If there is,does it have any correlation with the judaism practice of tithing?
4.All the apostles took turns in preaching to their congregations just like todays pastors do,can any pro-tither show us where they asked the congregants to tithe to them or bring foods to the storehouse of the apostles?
5.Why was it unneccessary to the apostles to slaughter animals for sacrifice and also receive tithes for their upkeep?
6.Were the Levite priests commanded to carry out their duties freely?
7.Who were commanded to carry out their duties freely and who commanded them?
8.Why is it unimportant for todays christians to raise funds in exactly the same way the early christians did?.Change of times?
9.Was the curse in Malachi also applicable to the apostles and the early christians?
10.If jesus taught that tithing is an "UNIMPORTANT" matter to a christian,who then popularised it and made it "GREATLY" important to a point of non adherance will be a hinderance to ones progress and success,against what christ taught?.
I sincere answers to the above questions would give a good christian a clue where he stands between judaism practices of old and what christ taught. The only worry I have is that no pro-tither would attempt to answer these question or try to answer using references from the gospels.

Can someone help explain deut 14: 20 - end

Let's start with your understanding of the same

uanda:
Can someone help explain deut 14: 20 - end

Verse 20 is pretty self explanitory. An Israelite was permitted to eat animals that were considered to be clean. Unclean animals were animals that scavenged for their food, and also animals that were sick with disease.

Verse 21 states that the Israelites could not eat an animal that died on its own. These deaths could be due to disease, old age, starvation, or other reasons. Interesting enough, the animal could be given to foreigners or sold to aliens. The Israelites were also forbidden to boil a young goat in its mother's milk. (*note: aliens did not necessarily mean a person not of the Israelite tribes. A harlot was considered a foreigner in some cases.

Verses 22-27 is referring to the Feast tithe. It was observed in the Holy city, Jerusalem. The Feast tithe was eaten by the tither and those living in his house.

Verses 28-29 is referring to a third tithe, known as the Poor Tithe, or Charity Tithe. This tithe was kept in the Israelite cities and used to feed the Levites, widows, orphans & foreigners in Israel.

[quote author=vooks post=28058407]So it is foolhardy for God to require money but not so when it comes to redeeming the tithe? Did you know a tithe was redeemed with 120% of its estimated worth using money?

Can you quote the scripture where you redeem tithe with 120% using money?

Please don't display your confusion. Paper money was non-existent. They had precious metal, gold and silver of varying weights for legal tender. Recall Judas was paid in thirty silver coins. This started LONG before Moses. Why would Achan take all the trouble to hide silver and gold in Joshua 7? Precious metal was both a store of value and unit of exchange

There was no arbitrariness in the manner in which a tithe was to be offered, it was strictly in kind and non farmers were under no obligation to tithe

You are the one confusing yourself and others here.

[quote author=vooks post=28058407]So it is foolhardy for God to require money but not so when it comes to redeeming the tithe? Did you know a tithe was redeemed with 120% of its estimated worth using money?

Can you quote the scripture where you redeem tithe with 120% using money?

Please don't display your confusion. Paper money was non-existent. They had precious metal, gold and silver of varying weights for legal tender. Recall Judas was paid in thirty silver coins. This started LONG before Moses. Why would Achan take all the trouble to hide silver and gold in Joshua 7? Precious metal was both a store of value and unit of exchange

There was no arbitrariness in the manner in which a tithe was to be offered, it was strictly in kind and non farmers were under no obligation to tithe

You are the one confusing yourself and others here. Look at Malachi again.

9 You are cursed with a curse: for you have robbed me, even this whole nation.. Then whole nations in this scripture are only farmers excluding others according to our antitithers here.

^^^
[quote author=Bidam post=28067871][/quote]

Olodo, the "whole nation" being referred to was the levite nation. It was the levites that were supposed to take tithes to the store house referred to in mal 3:8-10 and not the children of Israel in general.

Bidam

When this happened:
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until [size=14pt]the nation[/size] took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day."

Did the fighters here include women and children? Yet was it not 'the nation' that was mentioned?

PastorKun:
^^^


Olodo, the "whole nation" being referred to yesterday was the levite nation. It was the levites that were supposed to take tithes to the store house referred to in mal 3:8-10 and not the children of Israel in general.

Read Malachi again. The admonition for priests was in Malachi 2. The entire chapter 3 was for Judah and Jerusalem as a word of Prophecy. Last time i checked it was levites and not judah who were priests.. are descendants of Jacob in verse 6 only levites

trustman:


When this happened:
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until [size=14pt]the nation[/size] took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day."

Did the fighters here include women and children? Yet was it not 'the nation' that was mentioned?

You logic doesn't follow here. According to Jewish tradition the man represents the whole of his household..irrespective of which clan or tribe he belongs to.

Bidam,
Here is a tithe redeemed with money
Leviticus 27:31 (ESV)
31 If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it

vooks:

Bidam,
Here is a tithe redeemed with money
Leviticus 27:31 (ESV)
31 If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it

So where is 120% of money or coins in that verse

When preaching on the topic of tithes, pastors often begin their sermon at Malachi 3:8. But why start at Malachi 3:8? They should instead start at Malachi 2:1. Then they will have proper context for the command in 3:10.

Malachi 2:1 says, “And now, O Priests, this command is for you.” What command? There is no command given in the entirety of that chapter. Read on.

In Chapter 3:6, we read, “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

So, we see thus far that God was speaking to a specific people, Priests who were descendants of the patriarch Jacob. Read on.

When we arrive at verse ten, we see the commandment referred to in Malachi 2:1. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in my House…”.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 reveals to us that it is not the congregation who is responsible for tithing to the House of God. Rather, it is the Levites.

The commanded tithes were agricultural, as commanded in Leviticus 27:30-33. They were not money.

So, now we have the whole truth. The command of Malachi 3:10 is not a command for us to tithe our money, it was not a command for the congregation to bring tithes to the storehouse. It was a command for the Levitical Priests to bring tithes to the House of God, to the chambers.

Pastors have deceitfully handled the Word of God for too long. They have twisted the truth of Malachi 3:8-12, and used it as a tool to rob us of our monies.

We are to be faithful stewards of all that our God has given us. That includes being faithful with our money as well. Giving our money to thieves is not wise stewardship.

In 2 Corinthians 8:13, the Apostle Paul wrote that he did not want the Corinthians giving to be such that others were eased and the Corinthians themselves burdened. Many tithe teaching pastors place unnecessary burdens on Church members while they are living the good life.

Time for Christians to wake up… stop feeding the Thieves.

What does it mean to redeem?

Bidam:
So where is 120% of money or coins in that verse

vooks:
What does it mean to redeem?

You are going off course, read the preceding verse to know how the redeem is done. Redeem is simply to buy back, just as Christ redeem us from the curse of the LAW, the question is, is it with money? It is also used of God buying his people back from the slavery of Egypt (Exodus 6:6; Isaiah 51:10; 63:9).

Bidam:
You are going off course, read the preceding verse to know how the redeem is done. Redeem is simply to buy back, just as Christ redeem us from the curse of the LAW, the question is, is it with money? It is also used of God buying his people back from the slavery of Egypt (Exodus 6:6; Isaiah 51:10; 63:9).

Hmmmm

A farmer doesn't feel he will have enough food at home to feed his family. So, he requests to buy back his tithed food... with the tithed amount of food plus 20% more food? RoFL

And you are suggesting we are off? LoL

With what else would you redeem your farm produce?

Besides,
Deut 14:24-26 (ESV)
24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves.

This applies to the second/festival tithe. It means tithes were not agrarian because that's all there was in Israel, there was money,currency,gold and silver coins.

If a tithe could be converted into money and then back into farm produce at Jerusalem,there was a good opportunity for God to institute monetary tithes; they would have been more convenient and they would have been applicable to all vocations not just agriculture. But He didn't,yet some 400 years after Pentecost, some smart Catholics did just that.

Bidam:
You are going off course, read the preceding verse to know how the redeem is done. Redeem is simply to buy back, just as Christ redeem us from the curse of the LAW, the question is, is it with money? It is also used of God buying his people back from the slavery of Egypt (Exodus 6:6; Isaiah 51:10; 63:9).

[quote author=vooks post=28076411]
With what else would you redeem your farm produce?

You tell us, you said 120% MONEY OR COINS which was nowhere stated in the scripture you quoted.

Deut 14:24-26 (ESV)
24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves.[/b]

This applies to the second/festival tithe. It means tithes were not agrarian because that's all there was in Israel, there was money,currency,gold and silver coins.

If a tithe could be converted into money and then back into farm produce at Jerusalem,there was a good opportunity for God to institute monetary tithes; they would have been more convenient and they would have been applicable to all vocations not just agriculture. But He didn't,yet some 400 years after Pentecost, some smart Catholics did just that.

We are talking about the redeemable tithe not the one the Israelite set aside throughout the year and consumed it at the annual holy festivals of God for whatever their hearts desired. Either you swallow your pride and admit your error or you continue to wallow in confusion here.

MarkMiwerds:
Hmmmm

A farmer doesn't feel he will have enough food at home to feed his family. So, he requests to buy back his tithed food... with the tithed amount of food plus 20% more food? RoFL

And you are suggesting we are off? LoL

Is that what that scripture is telling you? SMH!

MarkMiwerds:
Yes, the issue was answered by me. Image just refuses to accept the Biblical proofs and undeniable facts.

Like i already said and is clear for any sane and unbiased person to verify, this your post that i'm quoting and replying us the answer i was asking for. i made that clearer here. Unfortunately, your bile is so much you would probably argue even if i said something so basic as "Jesus is Lord'. The crux of what i asked which you replied to was "NO verses says/stated emphatically that they could not tithe non agricultural stuff. Stop twisting Deut 12 to support your lack of understanding. It says ALL THE THINGS WE DO HERE THIS DAY. Were they tithing before getting to Canaan or no?"
Okay, lets examine your answers.

Proof: Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Fact: God did not say 'And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, or of thy silver, thy gold, or thy wages is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.' He said the tithe consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.

We're asking for what God said. Any english student can see that the above quote DOES NOT say emphatically that they(Israelites) could not tithe non agricultural stuff. We all know and can all see that the PASSAGE talks about agricultural tithes, but to twist and force it to say what it doesn't say is mischievous. It gives no prohibition on non agricultural tithes. The context of the passage was on vows, offerings and their redemption. The primary lesson from that passage in context with the rest of the chapter is that tithes of crops were redeemed/redeemable, while tithes of animals were not redeemed. It didn't say anything about other types of tithes and whether they were to be redeemed or not. If you were doing a basic english comprehension exam or test, you wouldn't come up with the extras you are asserting here. Why are you then forcing a bible verse to bend to your doctrine/opinion?
Perhaps the word 'holy' is the issue here. that something is holy simply means that thing is set apart or devoted. The Bible shows that anything can be set apart, even human beings. Material things, food, heart, money anything can be set apart or 'holy'. Every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. There's no special esoteric God's holy tithe anywhere. The passage is simply saying that tithe of land and animals is/should be set apart for God i.e through the priests and levites. It is a matter of facts statement, not a statement to exclude other scriptures. Other scriptures show people who gave God non agricultural tithes, that is the simple point. Any child of God should have a right to devote of his possession to God.

Proof: Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Fact: God did not say the tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans, strangers in Israel & pastors on Gentile soil. His tithe was to go to people in Israel.

Like we both agree and you yourself said, Tithing was for sustenance and feeding. that is as common sense as it gets. In understanding, we ought to be matured. It is this very principle that is employed in taking care of the church's needs and its workers. that is a simple understanding of the spirit of a law, instead of the letter. The antagonists of Christ wanted the letter of the law, Christ showed them its spirit and principle. The wanted the sabbath the way they thought it to be God's holy sabbath. Christ showed them the graciousness in the sabbath, they were blinded about what they thought was not lawful. In the same vein if not worse, you say and we agree that we are not under the law, but you are busy advocating that we must obey what you think is the law. We choose to obey the Word of God. The Word of God shows people who gave tithes before Israel was born. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? i want to give God a tithe of my income. Do not let it grieve you.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Fact: God said tithe was to be observed once the children of Israel crossed the Jordan and found rest from their enemies. They were not required to tithe until they entered Canaan.

Well that's common sense as the Isrealites were not working but were receiving manna all that time. i don't expect anybody who is not working to be giving tithes, tithe of what?

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Fact: God said things were to be done His way, not man's. His tithe was to be agricultural, to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land that God had promised to Jacob... Canaan. They could not have tithed money. They were not to do what seemed right in their own eyes. They were to do as God commanded.

You do know and you just said that the Israelites were not tithing before they got to Canaan, though you forgot to state the obvious reason. They were not working. They were not to do how they were doing in those days, all the things that we do here this day. None of them was tithing, so how did you manage to force that verse on tithes? The verse says nothing about tithes, and obviously is not about tithes as they were not tithing that time. If someone comes and quotes a verse in favour of tithes that doesn't directly mention tithes, the same you will take offence. But here you are, deceiving yourself and others that this verse is talking about tithes.
What is God's way? God's way is found in God's Word and i am convinced that Genesis is a part of God's Word. Genesis shows how Abraham the friend of God gave tithes, The Spirit of God called and accepted it as tithes when referring to it in the NT. It didn't insinuate that Abraham was doing what was right in his own eyes or wrong in God's eyes. Jacob said to give of all he would be given. It's the same principle.
Again, the tithe was for the feeding and sustenance. Man's basic needs/sustenance is food, clothing and shelter. The shelter of the levites and priests was guaranteed. the tithes chiefly took care of the other two, food and clothing. People then didn't need money like we would now. If you were going to be rich, it was usually a factor of your herds and your barns. Unlike today's society where you need money for a lot more. In fact, if you were going to convert your tithes to money, you had to add extra because of the stress of the conversion. Because its like you have food, and i need food, of course you should give me food. Money is not what i need as it were, so if you'r giving me money, it should cover up fr my transport and stress to get the food. The priests and levites had very little need for money(people in agrarian economies had little need for money BTW), so if you're giving them money instead of food and clothing direct, you do the extra. Unlike today, today, money makes the world go round almost literally. i would appreciate you gave me $1000 instead of a thousand dollars worth of food. In fact, a thousand dollars worth of food would greatly stress me today. It's so common sense its a wonder you're not getting it. If i love my neighbour as myself, and love the church and its ministers as myself, i would graciously help supply their need.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

The God that i know would not have any problem with me giving out a tenth of my income, don't give yourself an headache about that.

Proof: Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Fact: The last commandment in the Bible concerning tithes, they are still the property of the sons of Levi. They are still according to the Law; i.e., agricultural.

If you consider where tithe is mentioned last, why do you turn a blind eye on where it was first mentioned? This same passage you quoted talks of Abraham and Levi giving tithes, and it was to a non jew non levite. Tithes belong to God, Melchisedek collected it in that passage you quoted. It is not the exclusive property of levites, but of God. Will a man rob God?

Fact: There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church.

Fact: In the Bible, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, and tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone NOT to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church. We are not under the law so stop expecting us to be subject to your interpretations of the law. We are under grace and can use that grace given us to give graciously of our income to God. Every man as he has purposed, we purpose to give tithe, thank you. The principle of the tithe is all over the new testament. Tithe in any dispensation is a proportion, is given to the necessity of God's ministers. The New testament church was free to give in proportion and to the necessity of the saints. they also gave graciously and far above 10% of whatever they had, whether agricultural or non agricultural. If you're giving or controlling more than 10%, you should have no issues with 10%.