ijaw citizen: This statements shows just how naive and uneducated you are. Better read people can see thru' your ignorance and stupidity except those who are just like you.

Don't ever quote me with this kind of stupidity next time.

Abagworo:

I've never seen where slaves recorded their tribe as Igbo or Yoruba. Igbo was earlier used in those 1600s to refer to a geographic area and not an ethnic group.

bigfrancis21:

@Bold...I guess it is because you may not have researched well. That you haven't seen doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The argument here was whether Ibo as a term existed before Nigeria's colonialism and yes it did. Which I've proven to you. The popular place called 'Ebo's landing' in Georgia had its name given during the slave trade right after the Ebo's landing incident. A town in Belize was named 'Eboe' town for the first half of the 17th century.

In the Americas, whites used 'Ibo' to refer to a related group of peoples who spoke some related form of language. And the whites in US were shocked to discover that many Ibo slaves never heard of or called themselves 'Ibo' while in Africa. However, on reaching US, many assumed the identity and referred to themselves by it. Don't forget the oral ancestral histories of some african americans which AAs say that their grandfather/grandmother told them that his/her own grandparent was descended from 'Ibo' of Nigeria.

Ibo as a term existed during the slave trade. Olauda Equiano had a very clear-cut sense of this nationality and their location when he wrote his autobiography.

Yorubas were recorded more and more as Nago, Lukmi, Egba etc.

Remember that source you provided where Igbo slaves recorded their respective sub-clans(Acoqua, Ocuela etc). Despite seeing several different Igbo sub-clans, there was 'Ibo' among the listings there which might mean that 1 or 2 slaves or more may have referred to themselves as that on arrival in the US.

ezeagu:

You're wrong.

Dibiachukwu:
For now he statement is valid. We are yet to see a verifiable proof of any slave identifying themselves as Igbo. Equaino said Igbo country, and not people. There is a difference. By then, the place had probably been named

Abagworo:

Anago, lukumi etc is not same as the term Yoruba which is more recent. At a stage the White man used "Aku" in refernce to Yorubas and related people. On that of Igbo, at least you've read where the so called Igbo slaves admitted never hearing of the word before arriving America. "Aboh" people were recorded as "Ibo" and in some instances "Egba" who are obviously "Yoruba" today were also recorded as "Ibo".

Dibiachukwu:
For now he statement is valid. We are yet to see a verifiable proof of any slave identifying themselves as Igbo. Equaino said Igbo country, and not people. There is a difference. By then, the place had probably been named

bigfrancis21:

Equiano's statement of being from a vale called 'Ebo' is an implied one. In his same account, he referred to Igbo people in America and Caribbean as 'my fellow Ebo countrymen'.

The cause of the argument here was the usage of 'Ibo' which you thought didn't exist before the white men, which did of course. You're not knowledgeable about the slave trade because if you were you would have known this.

Even though Igbo slaves did not identify as Igbo before they left Africa and arrived US where they met the 'Ibo' term, slave records and articles show that these Igbo slaves seemed to have accepted this Ibo general classification and helped to unite them, hence making them see themselves as one.

I gave some instances of this Ibo term intra usage between Igbos themselves and between Igbos and other tribes in my last post to Abagworo.

British slave masters were not interested in the specific tribal sub-clan origins of their slaves, they noticed similar language dialects which they used to lump related slaves together. It seems that at a point, all the Igbo sub-clan slaves brought in from Bonny/Calabar axis were refereed to as 'Igbo'. Bight of Bonny/Calabar(Bonny especially) became tantamount to 'Ibo'. Of course the whites knew the difference between Igbo slaves and Moko(Ibibio)/Efik slaves, the latter which were much fewer than Igbo slaves in number.

bigfrancis21:
Equiano's statement of being from a vale called 'Ebo' is an implied one. In his same account, he referred to Igbo people in America and Caribbean as 'my fellow Ebo countrymen'.

The cause of the argument here was the usage of 'Ibo' which you thought didn't exist before the white men, which did of course. You're not knowledgeable about the slave trade because if you were you would have known this.

Even though Igbo slaves did not identify as Igbo before they left Africa and arrived US where they met the 'Ibo' term, slave records and articles show that these Igbo slaves seemed to have accepted this Ibo general classification and helped to unite them, hence making them see themselves as one.

I gave some instances of this Ibo term intra usage between Igbos themselves and between Igbos and other tribes in my last post to Abagworo.

British slave masters were not interested in the specific tribal sub-clan origins of their slaves, they noticed similar language dialects which they used to lump related slaves together. It seems that at a point, all the Igbo sub-clan slaves brought in from Bonny/Calabar axis were refereed to as 'Igbo'. Bight of Bonny/Calabar(Bonny especially) became tantamount to 'Ibo'. Of course the whites knew the difference between Igbo slaves and Moko(Ibibio)/Efik slaves, the latter which were much fewer than Igbo slaves in number.

Dibiachukwu:
My argument is not that Igbo people are not related. My argument is that they are related but migrated from different directions. And that some of them migrated much later. Especially those who their language pattern tend to be isolated and those that speak more of another language than Igbo. And that some of us are not related. Especially those that came much later.

Dibiachukwu:
And I kind of don't believe anything coming from the brits. Including their records. Equiano is also not legit to me, because of his relationship with his supposed slavers. And the way this same record is being promoted by the same culprits. I refuse to accept those records. I will stick to narratives from affected communities in Igboland. We know that some people connived with the white people to raid and sell our people. Equiano might very well be one of them.

bigfrancis21:

Well, it might interest you to know that not only the Brits kept slave records. The french, spanish and portuguese also kept well-detailed records, all of which the term, 'Ibo' was well-recorded.

So if you are cynical about the Brits, are you also cynical about the French, Spanish and Portuguese as well?

Note that each of these nationalities tended to preferr certain slaves. The Brits preferred Igbo, Congolese, and Angolan slaves. That is why Igbo legacies left behind in the Americas are strongest in current English-speaking countries(former British colonies such as US, Jamaica, Anglophone Caribbean nations). The Portuguese preferred Yoruba(or Nago, Lukumi, Aku etc).

Equiano's slave account is a quite factual account. That you choose to write it off out of cynicism is left to you. His experience, indepth details, and knowledge of the Igbo customs of the 18th century are quite concrete to have been fabricated by the British as you'd rather believe. His observation of the striking similarity between Igbo customs of yore and Hebraic customs is striking, giving that hundreds of years later, the same is still being said. That also proves his account valid to an extent.

His mentioning of his father's age grade group, Mgbirichi(Mbrenche) lends another strong factor. The same age grade exists in Imo state today. An area in Ohaji/Egbema LGA of Imo state exists, called 'Mgbirichi', along Owerri-PH road long after FUTO junction. The british could have known a details as minute as this.

Olauda Ikwuano's name is written in the annals of the world's notable men by the British.

It is my aim to bring to your realization the factual aspects of Equiano's(Ikwuano) account. Whether you choose to accept it or not is left you.

bigfrancis21:

Well, it might interest you to know that not only the Brits kept slave records. The french, spanish and portuguese also kept well-detailed records, all of which the term, 'Ibo' was well-recorded.

So if you are cynical about the Brits, are you also cynical about the French, Spanish and Portuguese as well?

Note that each of these nationalities tended to preferr certain slaves. The Brits preferred Igbo, Congolese, and Angolan slaves. That is why Igbo legacies left behind in the Americas are strongest in current English-speaking countries(former British colonies such as US, Jamaica, Anglophone Caribbean nations). The Portuguese preferred Yoruba(or Nago, Lukumi, Aku etc).

Equiano's slave account is a quite factual account. That you choose to write it off out of cynicism is left to you. His experience, indepth details, and knowledge of the Igbo customs of the 18th century are quite concrete to have been fabricated by the British as you'd rather believe. His observation of the striking similarity between Igbo customs of yore and Hebraic customs is striking, giving that hundreds of years later, the same is still being said. That also proves his account valid to an extent.

His mentioning of his father's age grade group, Mgbirichi(Mbrenche) lends another strong factor. The same age grade exists in Imo state today. An area in Ohaji/Egbema LGA of Imo state exists, called 'Mgbirichi', along Owerri-PH road long after FUTO junction. The british could have known a details as minute as this.

Olauda Ikwuano's name is written in the annals of the world's notable men by the British.

It is my aim to bring to your realization the factual aspects of Equiano's(Ikwuano) account. Whether you choose to accept it or not is left you.

bigfrancis21:

Well, it might interest you to know that not only the Brits kept slave records. The french, spanish and portuguese also kept well-detailed records, all of which the term, 'Ibo' was well-recorded.

So if you are cynical about the Brits, are you also cynical about the French, Spanish and Portuguese as well?

Note that each of these nationalities tended to preferr certain slaves. The Brits preferred Igbo, Congolese, and Angolan slaves. That is why Igbo legacies left behind in the Americas are strongest in current English-speaking countries(former British colonies such as US, Jamaica, Anglophone Caribbean nations). The Portuguese preferred Yoruba(or Nago, Lukumi, Aku etc).

Equiano's slave account is a quite factual account. That you choose to write it off out of cynicism is left to you. His experience, indepth details, and knowledge of the Igbo customs of the 18th century are quite concrete to have been fabricated by the British as you'd rather believe. His observation of the striking similarity between Igbo customs of yore and Hebraic customs is striking, giving that hundreds of years later, the same is still being said. That also proves his account valid to an extent.

His mentioning of his father's age grade group, Mgbirichi(Mbrenche) lends another strong factor. The same age grade exists in Imo state today. An area in Ohaji/Egbema LGA of Imo state exists, called 'Mgbirichi', along Owerri-PH road long after FUTO junction. The british could have known a details as minute as this.

Olauda Ikwuano's name is written in the annals of the world's notable men by the British.

It is my aim to bring to your realization the factual aspects of Equiano's(Ikwuano) account. Whether you choose to accept it or not is left you.

Antivirus92: @op, let me correct u. The bini never founded any igbo community but many bini migrants settled among already existing igbo settlements. Don't make that mistake again. Secondly, igbo was a tribe bt now a nation. Igbos share many things in common. The only problem to united igbo history today are those "adopted" igbos especially at igbo borders. Like arochukwu,abiriba,onitsha,ngwa etc. They are mixture of igbos and non igbos and so is their culture.

Abagworo:

Mgburishi is more of an Ozo title holder from Nri with the revered scarifications than Mgbirichi town in Ohaji and Equiano is not Ikwuano. The "oye ibo" used by Equiano is more reasonable if it was in reference to Aro slave dealers and not Igbos per say.

Dibiachukwu:
Well from our own records. Most, if not all the slaves to the Americas (South -> North) were Igbo. From the Senegambian region to the Nigerian region. They were all Igbo. Even the ones that were taken to Angola were Igbos too (Google Igbos in angola). When those slaves got to America. They were stripped of their names. Do you really believe that, the same people that conspicuously stripped them of their names to hide their identity; would keep record of their identity. I put it to you, that they (The slavers) already knew their identity (Nigers according to the slavers), they kept record of the location (Igbo,Moko,Yoruba (OYO), Gambia, Senegalese, Angola). There were other black people there whom the white slavers used very conveniently, as spies and disciplinarians. These ones, sometimes had their own slaves too. Equaino had slaves. Was promoted by Britain. How did that happen? Listen this slavery thing was/is one big conspiracy.

Dibiachukwu:
Posting a slaver's records of his slavery, is like quoting a Nigerian account of the Biafran civil war. Or a defendant, vouching for himself. It is unacceptable anywhere, anytime.

bigfrancis21:

How then can your great grand parents, who are your supposed 'sources of records', be present in Africa and know what happened in the America? Is their oral narration any more valid than written and documented sources?

bigfrancis21:

@Bold...please that's your own personal records. Never has that being claimed orally by our grandparents or Igbos in general. African Americans are doing DNA testing, with results turning up Igbo, Congo, Angola(Mvibundu), Akan etc. Clearly, your 'records' are mere speculations and product of cynicism.

Igbo slaves were taken in quite substantial numbers(approximately 1.3 million), however it would be very wrong to claim what you just did.

Finally, when did the slave trade become a conspiracy? Do you just sit down thinking of what to accuse the british of? Honestly, your cynicism is getting out of hand.

Abagworo:

Mgburishi is more of an Ozo title holder from Nri with the revered scarifications than Mgbirichi town in Ohaji and Equiano is not Ikwuano. The "oye ibo" used by Equiano is more reasonable if it was in reference to Aro slave dealers and not Igbos per say.

ezeagu:

But the issue was whether Igbo or Eboe was a place or a people and Equiano clearly refers to some sort of people that were in contact with his people Oye-Eboe.

Dibiachukwu:
You forgot nri-awka Kingdom, which is likely an extension of benin-idah kingdom. Awka is oka. And Oka is an important town in benin. Most of the peoples here might be Igbo but the "royalty" is not Igbo. Onitsha, and ngwa may have strangers amongst them but they are still majority Igbo. Delta and Rivers Igbos are very mixed (Though still majority Igbo) and very hard to distinguish . Aro is same with Nri/Awka with a mixture of Ibibio. And out of Aro came Abam, Nkanu, Item, Ohafia, Abiriba, Afikpo (All those peoples along these east flanks of Igboland). Central Igbo dwellers (heartland) are the least mixed Igbos. Though they still have Aro amongst them.

ezeagu:

But the issue was whether Igbo or Eboe was a place or a people and Equiano clearly refers to some sort of people that were in contact with his people Oye-Eboe.

ezeagu:

But the issue was whether Igbo or Eboe was a place or a people and Equiano clearly refers to some sort of people that were in contact with his people Oye-Eboe.