If you don't argue with facts, you're losing respect - Nas

italo: Rutherford said that in 1925 Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets would return to Earth, and for them he prepared a mansion named Beth Sarim in San Diego, California. He moved into this mansion (where he died in 1942) and bought an automobile with which to drive the resurrected patriarchs around. The Watch Tower Society quietly sold Beth Sarim years later to cover up an embarrassing moment in their history, namely another failed prophecy.

True or false.

The bible said in the Book of Hebrews, that the "prophets of old awaits a city having real foundation in the kingdom of God", if Rutherford faith in the fulfilment of that prophesy was so strong that he went preparing a place for them, i dont know.
but such kind faith cannot be a sin, faith in the word of God.

If the popes have half as much faith in the word of God, they would have been preaching about God's kingdom, but no, they dont, they are the rulers of this current world that the bible said that satan is its ruler.

Do you know what the harlot driving the wild beast in revelation means ? You dont i supposed.

In this same world, Jesus christ was offered kingship, he refused and ran into the mountain.

Satan also offered it to Jesus, but he also refused, but your pope and you RCC, can they say the same ? Judge for yourself.

I for one still keep on praying every day for "thy kingdom come" as Jesus says we should.

Maybe, we should laugh at Jesus, that for the past 2000yrs, he had asked us to pray the same prayer till date and the kindom is not yet here, should we laugh at Jesus like atheist do ? You be the Judge.

But i will never stop praying for God's kingdom to come even though you have stop, or that your rcc have turned that kingdom to be in this satan world, but the bible says, when the kingdom comes, there will be no more death, take note.

That ^ is what faith can do, stop laughing at men of faith like Rutherford. He was not a thief.

italo: Rutherford was succeeded by Nathan Homer Knorr, who was born in 1905 and died in 1977.

Since the Bible, as preserved through the centuries, did not support the peculiar doctrines of the Witnesses, Knorr chose an anonymous committee to produce the New World Translation, which is used by no sect other than the Witnesses. By means of former Witnesses, the names of the five members of the translation committee eventually came to light. Four of the five members completely lack credentials to qualify them as Bible translators, and the fifth member studied non-biblical Greek for only about two years.

The New World Translation was produced because it buttresses Witnesses’ beliefs through obscure or inaccurate renderings. For example, to prove that Jesus was only a creature, not God, theNew World Translation’s rendering of John 1:1 concludes this way: "and the Word was a god" [italics added]. Every other translation, Catholic and Protestant—not to mention the Greek original—has "and the Word was God."

True or false.

What worldly "credentials" did the apostles of christ that wrote the NT or the prophets and Levitse that wrote the OT had ? Answer me ?

Of the whole bible that the jw translated, what you can find is that they did not call Jesus God with capital 'G' as though the Hebrew word had capitalisation or the greek word did.

Did you not read from that John1:1 that Jesus was in the begining ? Does the almighty God have a beginning ?

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

The 'word' (Jesus) was in the beginning, meaning Jesus start was in the beginningq simple! And you and all your lots are blind to that simple truth and keep making noise.

Are you saying that those men without "credentials" can translate the whole bible and only one verse is your problem ?

Meanwhile the Kingjames and other translations are replete with errors ? Cant you see that they did a Good Job ?

What will you say was their score ? Almost 100%, na lie ? Smh.

You are blind and happy that the name of the almighty God has been removed from his books in the scriptures even though Yahwheh wants all men to know his name, you and rcc dont care but went ahead to remove it and keep a streight face ?

See what Yahweh wants done to his name:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (Psalm 83:18).
.....................

From that ^, Yahweh wants 'men' to know his name.

But you are proud to have removed it, and you are here to muck the people that have restored the name of Yahweh back into the bible, who do you think Yahweh will be happy with ? Rcc ?

Yahweh said his name will serve as a memorial from generation to genaration to times indefinites, is that name still in your bible ? Are you still making use of that name ?

Jesus said he has made the name of God known to his disciples, which name did he made knwon ? Did Jesus hide the Name of his father ?

See:

"I have 'manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world': thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. " (John 17:6).
....................

Did you see what Jesus said he did ? He made the name of God known to his disciples.

Who do you think will want the name of God to be forgotten ? Satan ofcouse.

But you and your rcc are happy with Yahweh's name out of his word, and the people, the jw that put it back about 7000 times in the NWT are the people you are here laughing at.

Your pope/church gave a direction in 2006 or so that the devine name should be removed in all rcc publication and song books etc, whose purpose and intent do you think such a direction is serving ? Yahweh ? Smh.

"You are from your father, and you wish to do the desirs of you father". Jesus said.

Am happy that the JW not only bear the name of Yahweh, but have put it back in its rightful place in the scriptures.

even though you dont like that ^. I do, i will not like the name of my earthly father to be forgotten, let alone my creator. Am happy.

@loveroftruth, can you answer these clearly and honestly?

1. Did your orgainization prophesy that Jesus would be back in 1914? Yes or no?

2. Did Jesus come back in 1914? Yes or no?

3. After the expected coming, did your organization say the Jesus had already come and gone in 1914 invisibly? Yes or no?

loveroftruth:

The bible said in the Book of Hebrews, that the "prophets of old awaits a city having real foundation in the kingdom of God", if Rutherford faith in the fulfilment of that prophesy was so strong that he went preparing a place for them, i dont know.
but such kind faith cannot be a sin, faith in the word of God.

If the popes have half as much faith in the word of God, they would have been preaching about God's kingdom, but no, they dont, they are the rulers of this current world that the bible said that satan is its ruler.

Do you know what the harlot driving the wild beast in revelation means ? You dont i supposed.

In this same world, Jesus christ was offered kingship, he refused and ran into the mountain.

Satan also offered it to Jesus, but he also refused, but your pope and you RCC, can they say the same ? Judge for yourself.

I for one still keep on praying every day for "thy kingdom come" as Jesus says we should.

Maybe, we should laugh at Jesus, that for the past 2000yrs, he had asked us to pray the same prayer till date and the kindom is not yet here, should we laugh at Jesus like atheist do ? You be the Judge.

But i will never stop praying for God's kingdom to come even though you have stop, or that your rcc have turned that kingdom to be in this satan world, but the bible says, when the kingdom comes, there will be no more death, take note.

That ^ is what faith can do, stop laughing at men of faith like Rutherford. He was not a thief.

This is not faith in God's word. This is faith in your own devilish misinterpretation and adulteration of God's word.

If it was actually what God was saying, it wouldn't fail.

Does God's word fail?

@ Jehovah's Witnesses,

Since you claim you got all these your devilish and false prophecies from the Bible; arent the rest of your teachings which you claim are from the Bible too devilish and false?

Whats the difference?

italo: Knorr was succeeded as head of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Frederick Franz. He had been the Witnesses’ leading theologian, and his services were often called upon. For some years the sect’s magazines had been predicting that Armageddon would occur in 1975. When it didn’t, Franz had to find an explanation.

Witnesses believe that Adam was created in 4026 B.C. and that human beings have been allotted 6000 years of existence until Armageddon and the beginning of the millennium. This figure is based on a "creative week" in which each of six days is equal to 1,000 years, with the Sabbath or seventh day being the beginning of the millennium. Simple arithmetic gives 1975 as the year Armageddon would arrive. Franz explained that Armageddon would actually come 6000 years after Eve’s creation. But when 1975 came and went, the Witnesses had to "adjust" their chronology to cover up a failed prediction. They accomplished this by maintaining that no one knew exactly how long after Adam’s creation Eve came on the scene. Franz said that it was months—even years. Hence he was able to "stretch" the 1975 date to some indeterminate time in the future. In any case, Franz said that Witnesses would just have to wait, knowing the end is right around the corner.

When the final battle does occur—remember, it will be during the lifetime of "millions" of people alive in 1914, which means it can’t be too far off—Jehovah will defeat Satan and the elect will go to heaven to rule with Christ. But, following a literal interpretation of the number mentioned in Revelation, chapters 7 and 14, only 144,000 are among the elect. They will go to heaven as spirit persons (without resurrected bodies). The remaining faithful (Jehovah’s Witnesses), who are known as Jonadabs, will live forever on a renewed, paradise Earth in resurrected bodies. The unsaved will cease to exist at all, having been annihilated by Jehovah.

True or false?

Unlike you, i have a copy of the 1975 publications.

The Jw said that there is always something about the 7th with God.

Eg, in the bible, the sevent day = a sabath, seven creative days, God rested.

So, the publications ask "after 6000yrs, what else ? Christ milenial rule ?"

that ^ question up there that are living in constant expection of God'skingdom and praying for it daily and preaching about it, it is a seriouse thing since to them, God cannot lie.

Just like Jesus apostles had been in anticipation of the kingdom and asking if christ was restoring the kingdom when ? That made Jesus to tell them that the "day and hour" no one knows, Jw have the earger anticipation for that kingdom.

And the bible says that christians should be and stay awake so that that day does not catch them as a theif, the jw are ever awake, and paying attention to the signs of the times.

If you are now translating that question to mean that jw say they know the "Day and Hour", cant you see the lie ?

Keep living your life as though the kindom of God will not come again.

The jw never fixe a date at 1975, it was a question of anticipation, that you are always looking for what to grab against the Jw is your business. Till tomorrow, the jw are still in anticipation of the kingdom of God.

This are bible portions that advises christians to be awke to the coming of christ.

Read this:

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[color=#990000] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.[color=#990000] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us be watchful and be sober." (1 Thessalonians 5:4-6).

And this:

"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Revelation 16:14-16).
..................................................

Jw are ever watchful and in anticipation of that time so as to watch people and themself, can same be said of catholics

italo: In 1995 the Watchtower quietly changed one of its major prophetic doctrines. Until this point, they had maintained that the generation alive in 1914 would not pass from the scene until Armageddon occurred. Now that this generation has almost entirely died out—and Armageddon has not occurred and does not seem like it will happen immediately—they had to change their doctrine. Now, the Watchtower says that Armageddon will simply occur "soon," and it is no longer tied to a particular, literal generation of people.

True or false?

Unfortunately, it is the bible that says "generation will not pass away" and not the Jw.

But the bible generation is different from secular generation.

Read below and upgrade:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. " (Matthew 24:34).

"And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation." (Exodus 1:5-6).
........................

That up there is the bible genneration define.
Bible generation overlap from children to grand children and more there ^.

So, dont think Gods word have failed.

Am taking the time to teach you what RCC will not teach you befor you become an atheist.

loveroftruth:

Unlike you, i have a copy of the 1975 publications.

The Jw said that there is always soomething about the 7th with God.

Eg, in the bible, the sevent day = a sabath, seven creative days, God rested.

So, the publications ask "after 6000yrs, what else ? Christ milenial rule ?"

that ^ question up there that are living in constant expection of God'skingdom and praying for it daily and preaching about it, it is a seriouse thing since to them, God cannot lie.

Just like Jesus apostles had been in anticipation of the kingdom and asking if christ was restoring the kingdom when ? That made Jesus to tell them that the "day and hour" no one knows, Jw have the earger anticipation for that kingdom.

And the bible says that christians should be and stay awake so that that day does not catch them as a theif, the jw are ever awake, and paying attention to the signs of the times.

If you are now translating that question to mean that jw say they know the "Day and Hour", cant you see the lie ?

Keep living your life as though the kindom of God will not come again.

The jw never fixe a date at 1975, it was a question of anticipation, that you are always looking for what to grab against the Jw is your business. Till tomorrow, the jw are still in anticipation of the kingdom of God.

This are bible portions that advises christians to be awke to the coming of christ.

Read this:

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[color=#990000] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.[color=#990000] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us be watchful and be sober." (1 Thessalonians 5:4-6).

And this:

"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Revelation 16:14-16).
..................................................

Jw are ever watchful and in anticipation of that time so as to watch people and themself, can same be said of catholics ?

You're claiming it is the Bible that said the 1914 generation would witness Armageddon? !

Then in 1975, when the Bible saw that the 1914 had died out, it suddenly changed its story.

italo: Jehovah’s Witnesses may be "disfellowshipped" for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. A disfellow-shipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

True or false?

Though you included lies up there, i only wish to show you that the act of disfellowshiping is biblical processes of keeping the congregation clean.

God's people are always clean:

"I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).
...............................

That you and your RCC dont apply what the bible says fully is not the fault of JWs.

Jw sees the scriptures as God's word and apply it completely in their worship to ensure God's approval.

But your RCC prefer phylosophy, their bishops and popes 'must' read phylosophy to qualify to teach as such. Smh.

How can they appliy the scripture properly ?

Thats ^ not JW faults.

See for yourself if it is good to disobey the giver of life now and the one that will reward everlasting life in his kingdom, by taking blood that he said he will cut off any Israelite that does.

After yo have disobeyed him Yahweh, he will later reward you with everlasting life. Smh.

Christians are also toLd to abstain from blood:

"That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts 15:29).

If there is a Jw that decides to disobey God and take Blood, i dont think he will be disfelowship.

^^^

As usual, you get your devilish lies from your dumb and manipulative interpretation of the Bible...

...like when you lied that Jesus would come in 1914.

italo:

This is not faith in God's word. This is faith in your own devilish misinterpretation and adulteration of God's word.

If it was actually what God was saying, it wouldn't fail.

Does God's word fail?

Is the last 'days' a single day or an extended period of time ?

See :

"This know also, that in the last 'days' perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5).
......................

What did you read there up there ? A day or days ?

The start of this periods have a starting point and ongoing.

Different prophesies all points to this extended perion of time. Yes, they all fall into this 'last days'.

It is so long that Jesus had to say that those days will be cut short.

See :

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. " (Matthew 24:22).
...............

Did you see that ^ ?

So, diferent prophesies fall into this extended days, but all in all, this prophesies let christ followers know the period they live in, that it is the end time, that you and your rcc are blind to this is not the fault of jws.

This end time culminate to the end.

You better start shinning your eyes.

italo: @ Jehovah's Witnesses,

Since you claim you got all these your devilish and false prophecies from the Bible; arent the rest of your teachings which you claim are from the Bible too devilish and false?

Whats the difference?

I dont know what you mean by "False".

Do you mean the prayer for the kingdom of God to come for the past 2000yrs that has not come yet ?
Which one is false Italo.

And mr turn turn turner, can you address what i posted befor ?

That you should show where the Jw point to a "day" let alone an hour ?

Or you are not ready to eat your lies against the Jws ?

As a matter of fact, i was thinking you have bolls to psot doctrinal issues here, but no.

Why not try that and see Jman05 send you to the cleaners ?

loveroftruth:

Is the last 'days' a single day or an extended period of time ?

See :

"This know also, that in the last 'days' perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5).
......................

What did you read there up there ? A day or days ?

The start of this periods have a starting point and ongoing.

Different prophesies all points to this extended perion of time. Yes, they all fall into this 'last days'.

It is so long that Jesus had to say that those days will be cut short.

See :

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. " (Matthew 24:22).
...............

Did you see that ^ ?

So, diferent prophesies fall into this extended days, but all in all, this prophesies let christ followers know the period they live in, that it is the end time, that you and your rcc are blind to this is not the fault of jws.

This end time culminate to the end.

You better start shinning your eyes.

But your people lied that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would come to earth in 1925.

Why did you people lie to us?

Or have they come and gone invisibly, like your Jesus?

loveroftruth:

I dont know what you mean by "False".

Do you mean the prayer for the kingdom of God to come for the past 2000yrs that has not come yet ?
Which one is false Italo.

And mr turn turn turner, can you address what i posted befor ?

That you should show where the Jw point to a "day" let alone an hour ?

Or you are not ready to eat your lies against the Jws ?

As a matter of fact, i was thinking you have bolls to psot doctrinal issues here, but no.

Why not try that and see Jman05 send you to the cleaners ?

It is no prayer. It was a prophecy that Jesus would come in 1914.

And it was false.

This one is also doctrinal matter. It was one of your teachings until Jesus disgraced you then you lied again that he had come invisibly.

More doctrinal issues are coming.

italo:

You're claiming it is the Bible that said the 1914 generation would witness Armageddon? !

Then in 1975, when the Bible saw that the 1914 had died out, it suddenly changed its story.

You know am not playing hide and seek with you, and i did not say what you mention up there.

If you wish to know about the biblical caculation of 1914, feel free to meet any JW you see, they will show it to you. It is from the bible.

Thanks

italo:

But your people lied that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would come to earth in 1925.

Why did you people lie to us?

Or have they come and gone invisibly, like your Jesus?

Like i have said befor, i dont have facts to conclude that they did such.

If Rutherford did that, then he may had had over anxiouse expectation as it were, but asking and wishing for the kingdom of God to come can never, i repeat it can never be a bad thing.

I for one have a very strong anxiouse expectation in my life time for it to come, afteral, life everlasting no be joke

true, i find it hard to pray without including and asking for that kingdom to come.

All genuine lover of Yahweh does, because that kingdom as it is called will restore God's rulership and clears all reproach from the name of God.

*May thy Kingdom come God!

May this days be cut short like christ said.*

italo:

It is no prayer. It was a prophecy that Jesus would come in 1914.

And it was false.

This one is also doctrinal matter. It was one of your teachings until Jesus disgraced you then you lied again that he had come invisibly.

More doctrinal issues are coming.

sorry, it is not false.

it is there in their book yellow book "what does the bible really teach", the calculation of 1914. Ask them and get the significance of that year.
It is all there in the bible, the calculation.

loveroftruth:

sorry, it is not false.

it is there in their book yellow book "what does the bible really teach", the calculation of 1914. Ask them and get the significance of that year.
It is all there in the bible, the calculation.

i dnt understand.

italo:

It is no prayer. It was a prophecy that Jesus would come in 1914.

And it was false.

This one is also doctrinal matter. It was one of your teachings until Jesus disgraced you then you lied again that he had come invisibly.

More doctrinal issues are coming.

1914 was not a Jw prophesy, but telling people about what they have found in the bible.

Jw dont have their personal prophesy rether than what they see from the 66 books.

woky: i dnt understand.

why not hear from the horses mouth by carrying out your personal research to see if the date is biblical ?

Or, what happend on that day ?

Be a berean student.

loveroftruth:

1914 was not a Jw prophesy, but telling people about what they have found in the bible.

Jw dont have their personal prophesy rether than what they see from the 66 books.

are you tryin to say that the 1914 prophesy was not prophecies by d JW? Or that the JW find out that the world will end in 1914 according to the bible.

loveroftruth:

Like i have said befor, i dont have facts to conclude that they did such.

If Rutherford did that, then he may had had over anxiouse expectation as it were, but asking and wishing for the kingdom of God to come can never, i repeat it can never be a bad thing.

I for one have a very strong anxiouse expectation in my life time for it to come, afteral, life everlasting no be joke

true, i find it hard to pray without including and asking for that kingdom to come.

All genuine lover of Yahweh does, because that kingdom as it is called will restore God's rulership and clears all reproach from the name of God.

*May thy Kingdom come God!

May this days be cut short like christ said.*

No. You refuse to get it. They are not "over-anxious expectations, " they are FALSE PROPHECIES.

Prophecies are supposed to be from God. If they are false, they are from satan.

God cannot lie to his people.

loveroftruth:

why not hear from the horses mouth by carrying out your personal research to see if the date is biblical ?

Or, what happend on that day ?

Be a berean student.

If the date were biblical, it would have come to pass.

Does the Bible lie?

@ haterloveroftruth,

What kind of person are you?

You people said Jesus would come in 1914.

When the date came and went and Jesus disgraced you, you people lied that Jesus had come and gone invisibly.

I ask you now: did Jesus come and go invisibly in 1914?

@ Truthislight and italo, can i join the thread the thread?

^^^

You're most welcome.

loveroftruth:
If there is a Jw that decides to disobey God and take Blood, i dont think he will be disfelowship.

Dude, you just lied.
Either because you are not a high profiled leader in jw rank and file, or you just want to downplay the facts.

My copies of- letter to the elders and watchtower library cd is still with me oh, remember.

Don't make me start posting scanned copies of them.

italo: ^^^

You're most welcome.

tanxs.

italo: Russell lied to his followers Jesus would return in 1914.

When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible.

True or false?

No he has stated christ invisible return long before 1914. what failed was that they thought that they will receive their heavenly reward that year. He was however, not dogmatic about it.

Another deviation. You ve not said anything.

italo: Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by Joseph R. Rutherford.

It was Rutherford who coined the slogan, "Millions now living will never die." By it he meant that some people alive in 1914 would still be alive when Armageddon came and the world was restored to a paradise state.

True or false?

True. But you ve not said anything. I want to conclude that you have no prove against our CURRENT teaching. From now on, I will ignore any comment that has to do with what we no longer teach. I ve prove this in the bible for you also.

JMAN05:

True. But you ve not said anything. I want to conclude that you have no prove against our CURRENT teaching. From now on, I will ignore any comment that has to do with what we no longer teach. I ve prove this in the bible for you also.

One of the most misleading statements in Watchtower publications is that they accurately foretold 1914 to be
the "start" of the conclusion of this system of things. In reality,
1914 was predicted to be the "end" of the system of things, the conclusion of Armageddon and
the start of the earthly paradise.

i have the watchtower quotes to prove them below