italo:

So if Spirit - The Father can have Spirit -The Holy Spirit;

Then God - The Son can have God - The Father.

go to google play and update ur intellectual apps. It is outdated. look up though.

God - the one greater than him, whom he serves. Does God have any? yes or no?

true2god: @ JMAN05, r u a christian or a JW? I have asked this questiom earlier and i didnt get any reaponse frm u.

chai, I will receive insult cos of being sincere!!! If I ask you, are you a catholic or a christian. what will you answer? assuming you are a catholic.

true2god: @ JMAN05, hw do u pronounce the tetragramatton YHWH and what is the right pronunciation?

Yahweh or Jehovah. but we chose Jehovah. it is the oldest and has crept into other languages.

italo:

That is where you err. first, i ask, who gave Jesus the revelation? why should he be given a revelation in the first since he knows all? Rev. 1:1. ur answer.

I dont kno why the alpha and omega should be given the revelation.

Does it not show that God is greater than Him? cos I ve heard that anyone gave the almighty a revelation to go and give to somebody.

hisblud: hehe did you see the greek and tense used for Spirit? Lol so hilarious. Does active force have a will and capability to manifest personal traits like comfort, convict, guide? Since the Spirit of God is the active force of God, which one is the INACTIVE force? Lol. Btw is this your organizational official statement or your opinion? SMH!

Enough of this official and personal view. All I am saying here is what I believe is the truth from the bible. that JWs has the same believe doesnt mean that I no longer search to confirm the truth to myself. I make the truth my own. witnesses are not taught to be gullible. they are taught to verify and confirm the truth to themselves. If there is anything i dont understand as a witness, I wont say it here.

When the discussion arise, i will just keep silent until I prove it to myself first. we are taught to make the teaching our own instead of being gullible. so stop this official and personal stuff. If you want a prove of the truth, then lets talk.

asking about inactive force makes no sense. God can send His spirit and it plays any role you can ever think.

it can come as a dove, tongue of fire, work miracle, can empower many people at different places at the same time. atimes God can use it to act in different ways. conforter, rememberancer, etc.

loveroftruth: @Jman

Do you see the kind of People you are dealing with below ?

This is also another lie. So, take note and be as Gentle as a Dove and as wise as a serpent, Jesus said.


To answer that question, NO, Jw dont disfellowship anybody for marrying outsider.

Dont mind them. I am just doing this to help some who can be sincere to themselves, before they say no body told me. Their own believe cannot even been seen in the bible not to talk of proving. But look at them who have rafter in their eyes making noise.

italo:
When we said Jesus wasn't coming in 1914 and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob weren't coming to earth in 1925, Jehovah's Witnesses said we were carrying out false unbiblical teachings not supported by Jehovah.

Jehovah only supports your false prophecies and doctrines.
From the article, you still teach that heaven closed in 1935 but unfaithful people create space for remnants. Can you show me where the Bible mentions anything like that in 1935.

If the Bible doesnt teach it, why do you go about claiming your teachings are Bible teachings?

When you are serious I will know.

italo:

Dear JW,

That article doesnt state what mean by "future life prospect"

Neither does it answer whether you believe the soul to be the body/person or not.

Why dont you just answer?

what does it mean? immortal soul?

italo:
If the Holy Spirit is God's active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in Jn 16:7-8 and Jn 16:13-14; Bear witness - Jn 15:26; Feel hurt - Isa 63:10; Be blasphemed against - Mk 3:29; Say things - Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb10:15-17, Rev 2:7; Desire - Gal 5:17; Be outraged - Heb 10:29; Search -1Cor 2:10; Comfort - Acts 9:31; Be loved - Rom 15:30 ; Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?

As you read about the link about trinity, you will see a reply. but note this:

A comparison of Bible texts that refer
to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken
of as ‘filling’ people; they can be
‘baptized’ with it; and they can be
“anointed” with it. ( Luke 1:41; Matt.
3:11; Acts 10:38 ) None of these
expressions would be appropriate if the
holy spirit were a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as
a “helper” (Greek, pa·ra′kle·tos), and he
said that this helper would “teach,” “bear
witness,” “speak,” and ‘hear.’ ( John
14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13 ) It is not
unusual in the Scriptures for something to
be personified. For example, wisdom is
said to have “children.” (Luke 7:35 ) Sin
and death are spoken of as being kings.
( Rom. 5:14, 21 ) While some texts say that
the spirit “spoke,” other passages make
clear that this was done through angels or
humans. ( Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt.
10:19, 20 ; compare Acts 20:23 with Ac
21:10, 11 .) At 1 John 5:6-8 , not only the
spirit but also “the water and the blood”
are said to ‘bear witness.’ So, none of the
expressions found in these texts in
themselves prove that the holy spirit is a
person.

The correct identification of the holy
spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer
to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is
logical to conclude that the holy spirit is
the active force of God. It is not a person
but is a powerful force that God causes to
emanate from himself to accomplish his
holy will.— Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts
4:31 .

italo: JWs,

Why do you lie that Jesus is Archangel Michael when Hebrews 1 and countless other passages show he cant possibly be an angel?

Who is the "messenger(angel) of the covenant" mentioned at Mal. 3:1?

1. How can Jesus use the voice of a lower angel to resurrect the dead? hence he is greater than Michael. does it mean Jesus own voice has no command?

2. Can Jesus borrow another person's voice or is Jesus mimicking it?

3. read John5:28, 29. Who did Jesus say will resurrect the dead with his voice, himself or another person?

Your answer.

hisblud: @loveroftruth please give us official organization opinion on proving that yoog is lying that if you marry outside jw you will not be defellowshipped.

I am here to confirm that. we currently have a sister who did that. she wasnt disfellowshipped as far as you remain a witness.

italo:

You people taught that heaven was filled in 1935. Simple!!

Not heaven is filled, but we thought that God has stopped anointing new ones for the heavenly hope at that time. this is a conclusion based on statistic of memorial partakers. We however cant be sure cos some details are not yet known. some take out of error.

Hehehe, very funny a place.

@Italo

I wish to show you something below, so, cool down and read it and see if there is anything you will take out of it from this Rev 22.

italo:
This is another shameful lie.

Rev 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13[b] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.[/b]”

14 Blessed are those who do His (Jesus is clearly referring to the father here, meaning he is the one speaking) commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God(clearly referring to the father again) will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” (this is a repeat of Jesus words in verse 22).

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Clearly Jesus addresses himself as "the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last"

Why are you Jehovah's Witnesses so full of falsehood?

Abi can other people help us judge the passage above?


Jesus Christ: “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."

You lie that "the first and last" Jesus said is a title that means something different from that of God.

What does it mean and where does the Bible tell you its meaning?

Rev 22:6-13 talked about Yahweh sending his angel, then from verse 16 and 17 talked about Jesus the root of Devid also sending his angel.

see:


"And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " (Revelation 22:6-13).
..........:..........
That ^ is talking about Yahweh that sends His angel.

After Yahweh sends his Angel, then Jesus sends his angel in subsequent vers 16 below:


"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:16-17).
..................

The almighty is not of the root of David.

Yahweh is not a morning star.

"The lord God of the prophet" is Yahweh.

@Italo

did we learn anything ther

italo: @truthislight,

Tnx 4d compliments

Actuall, I wish we can learn one or two things,

You are welcome though.

JMAN05:

I am here to confirm that. we currently have a sister who did that. she wasnt disfellowshipped as far as you remain a witness.

is she a baptized witness?

JMAN05:

scroll up.

dont you understand what ITEMISE OF MISTAKE MEAN? ok list your leaders' mistake from inception, remember the thread you directed us on the crime of the various popes, there was a sort of an itemise sins by the popes mentioned. Therefore likewise, do such since you accept that they made mistakes.

Yooguyz:
is she a baptized witness?

ya.

JMAN05:

Enough of this official and personal view. All I am saying here is what I believe is the truth from the bible. that JWs has the same believe doesnt mean that I no longer search to confirm the truth to myself. I make the truth my own. witnesses are not taught to be gullible. they are taught to verify and confirm the truth to themselves. If there is anything i dont understand as a witness, I wont say it here.

When the discussion arise, i will just keep silent until I prove it to myself first. we are taught to make the teaching our own instead of being gullible. so stop this official and personal stuff. If you want a prove of the truth, then lets talk.

asking about inactive force makes no sense. God can send His spirit and it plays any role you can ever think.

it can come as a dove, tongue of fire, work miracle, can empower many people at different places at the same time. atimes God can use it to act in different ways. conforter, rememberancer, etc.

why are you denying your organizational stand now on issues? You claim that your organization must be d final authority since they are out to clarify the truth. So i cant be wrong in asking.

On the Spirit, you are wrong to claim the Spirit is an active force yet has a will of His own? Oh so the recent havoc in phillipine has a will of its own even tho its an active force? The Holy Spirit, whom you reduce to a common thing like tornados, is just a mere thing, i pity your belief, no wonder you are not christian but jw.

Btw you consider the Holy Spirit an impersonal active force abi? SMH

@italo i wish you picked a point, and allow the jw to dilly daly on that one point. You gave them so much info that they will try and use it deceitfully like jman calling the Rauch Ha Kodesh a common thing like uncontrollable windstorm or tsunami. if you patiently stick on that you would see them contradict what the said earlier on.

@italo i wish you picked a point, and allow the jw to dilly daly on that one point. You gave them so much info that they will try and use it deceitfully like jman calling the Rauch Ha Kodesh a common thing like uncontrollable windstorm or tsunami.

hisblud: dont you understand what ITEMISE OF MISTAKE MEAN? ok list your leaders' mistake from inception, remember the thread you directed us on the crime of the various popes, there was a sort of an itemise sins by the popes mentioned. Therefore likewise, do such since you accept that they made mistakes.

wrong expectation of going to heaven in 1914, thinking they enterred christ reign in 1925. I dont think 1975 should be included. just like people overreacted. we thought that the number to reveive heavenly hope should be decreasing not increasing, but the opposite has often been the case. we are however, not dogmatic on that. there have been many changes in our belief as new light unveils.

our understanding that the gentile times ended in 1914 was fulfilled. our understanding that The UN will rise again was fulfilled. this prediction was made during the second world war, in 1942 this stand was taking during Bro Knorr's time. this prediction was the understanding of Rev. 17:8. so even when the League of nation fell, we asserted that it will rise again.

We dont subscribe to infallibility or inspiration.

hisblud: why are you denying your organizational stand now on issues? You claim that your organization must be d final authority since they are out to clarify the truth. So i cant be wrong in asking.

On the Spirit, you are wrong to claim the Spirit is an active force yet has a will of His own? Oh so the recent havoc in phillipine has a will of its own even tho its an active force? The Holy Spirit, whom you reduce to a common thing like tornados, is just a mere thing, i pity your belief, no wonder you are not christian but jw.

Btw you consider the Holy Spirit an impersonal active force abi? SMH

Did I say it has a will of its own?

If the holy spirit is a person, can the bible refer to it as "it"? read at AT, AV, Ro, ED translations. some bible translators have allowed bias to make them change that impersonal pronoun to "himself" so as not to expose there doctrine. but accurately, the word to use is "itself".

the same "it" appeared in john 14:17, again some translators went and employed inaccurate pronoun to cover their doctrine. thank God the greek original is around for us to see.

hisblud: why are you denying your organizational stand now on issues? You claim that your organization must be d final authority since they are out to clarify the truth. So i cant be wrong in asking.

On the Spirit, you are wrong to claim the Spirit is an active force yet has a will of His own? Oh so the recent havoc in phillipine has a will of its own even tho its an active force? The Holy Spirit, whom you reduce to a common thing like tornados, is just a mere thing, i pity your belief, no wonder you are not christian but jw.

Btw you consider the Holy Spirit an impersonal active force abi? SMH

It was a hug mistake for any Bible's believers calling Holy spirit an active force of God. How can JWs clear this?

JMAN05:

wrong expectation of going to heaven in 1914, thinking they enterred christ reign in 1925. I dont think 1975 should be included. just like people overreacted. we thought that the number to reveive heavenly hope should be decreasing not increasing, but the opposite has often been the case. we are however, not dogmatic on that. there have been many changes in our belief as new light unveils.

our understanding that the gentile times ended in 1914 was fulfilled. our understanding that The UN will rise again was fulfilled. this prediction was made during the second world war, in 1942 this stand was taking during Bro Knorr's time. this prediction was the understanding of Rev. 17:8. so even when the League of nation fell, we asserted that it will rise again.

We dont subs
cribe to infallibility or inspiration.

See the English meaning of 'it'
pronoun
-The third-person singular personal pronoun used to refer to an inanimate object, to an inanimate thing with no or unknown sex or gender.
-The third-person singular personal pronoun used to refer to an animate entity of unknown gender.
[size=14pt]-Used to refer to oneself when identifying oneself, often on the phone, but not limited to this situation.[/size]
-The impersonal pronoun, used without referent as the subject of an impersonal verb or statement. (known as the dummy pronoun or weather it)
-The impersonal pronoun, used as a placeholder for a delayed subject, or less commonly, object. (known as the dummy pronoun)
obsolete relative That which; what.
noun (plural it)
-The person or people who chase and try to catch the other players in the playground game of tag.
(British) The game of tag itself.

So is Holy spirit a person or not?
@bold-It is very clear that these three persons are One.

loveroftruth:

Jw are not part of any other organized religion.

They are just on their own, not affiliated with any other group.

But they love all men as can be seen by the fact that they carry the msg of hope and promises of everlasting life to them in their houses all over the world, giving people an oppurtunity to gain the greatest gift of all, 'everlasting life'.

This they do free of charge.

I asked you if JW are christians or not. This is not a sincere response. If JWs are christians u say 'yes' and if they are not u say 'no'.

@jman good
Jehovah Witness Mistakes
1. in 1914 - wrong expectation of going to heaven and our understanding that the gentile times ended in was fulfilled.

2. in 1925 - thinking they enterred christ reign.

3. In 1975 - the number to receive heavenly hope should be decreasing not increasing, but the opposite has often been the case.

4.

there have been many changes in our belief as new light unveils.

please kindly itemise the initial beliefs before you changed.
5. in 1942

our understanding that The UN will rise again was fulfilled.

ok

We dont subscribe to infallibility or inspiration.

what do you subscribe to?

italo: Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?

@ loveroftruth, can an inactive force be lied to?

The holy spirit, according to JW, works like electric current, tornadoe, turbine wind, battery etc. So it's not animate but a force (or non living thing) God uses to carry out his actions.
From Act 5: 3-4, Peter asked Ananais and his wife y satan has filled their heart to LIE to the Holy Spirit. So my question now to you is this, if the Holy Spirit is a non-living thing, hw reasonable do u think it can be lied to. Can u lie to electric current, wind, battery etc?

I need u and JMAN05 help explain this verse. Can u lie to an active force?

[quote author=JMAN05]

Did I say it has a will of its own?

asking about inactive force makes no sense. God can send His spirit and it plays any role you can ever think.
it can come as a dove, tongue of fire, work miracle, can empower many people at different places at the same time. atimes God can use it to act in different ways. conforter, rememberancer, etc.

reading inbetween the lines, one can infer that He has a will of His own.

If the holy spirit is a person, can the bible refer to it as "it"? read at AT, AV, Ro, ED translations.

some bible translators have allowed bias to make them change that impersonal pronoun to "himself" so as not to expose there doctrine. but accurately, the word to use is "itself". the same "it" appeared in john 14:17, again some translators went and employed inaccurate pronoun to cover their doctrine. thank God the greek original is around for us to see.

hmm how laughable. In the kjv, was Yahshua not referred to as a "thing"?

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35).

Now Yahshua was referred to as a thing but we see Him doing human activity. So should we refer to Yahshua as a "thing" even though He manifested human qualities?

Emusan:

See the English meaning of 'it'
pronoun
-The third-person singular personal pronoun used to refer to an inanimate object, to an inanimate thing with no or unknown sex or gender.
-The third-person singular personal pronoun used to refer to an animate entity of unknown gender.
[size=14pt]-Used to refer to oneself when identifying oneself, often on the phone, but not limited to this situation.[/size]
-The impersonal pronoun, used without referent as the subject of an impersonal verb or statement. (known as the dummy pronoun or weather it)
-The impersonal pronoun, used as a placeholder for a delayed subject, or less commonly, object. (known as the dummy pronoun)
obsolete relative That which; what.
noun (plural it)
-The person or people who chase and try to catch the other players in the playground game of tag.
(British) The game of tag itself.

So is Holy spirit a person or not?
@bold-It is very clear that these three persons are One.

beautiful. Jman over to you.

true2god:
@ loveroftruth, can an inactive force be lied to?

The holy spirit, according to JW, works like electric current, tornadoe, turbine wind, battery etc. So it's not animate but a force (or non living thing) God uses to carry out his actions.
From Act 5: 3-4, Peter asked Ananais and his wife y satan has filled their heart to LIE to the Holy Spirit. So my question now to you is this, if the Holy Spirit is a non-living thing, hw reasonable do u think it can be lied to. Can u lie to electric current, wind, battery etc?

I need u and JMAN05 help explain this verse. Can u lie to an active force?

jman please help us oh can one lie to an inanimate object like wind?

true2god:
@ loveroftruth, can an inactive force be lied to?

The holy spirit, according to JW, works like electric current, tornadoe, turbine wind, battery etc. So it's not animate but a force (or non living thing) God uses to carry out his actions.
From Act 5: 3-4, Peter asked Ananais and his wife y satan has filled their heart to LIE to the Holy Spirit. So my question now to you is this, if the Holy Spirit is a non-living thing, hw reasonable do u think it can be lied to. Can u lie to electric current, wind, battery etc?

I need u and JMAN05 help explain this verse. Can u lie to an active force?

Infact Holyspirit can speak.
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, [size=14pt]the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.[/size]

In this verse Holy spirit identified Itself as Jesus by saying "...the work whereunto I have called...."

It's Jesus who called Paul yet Holy spirit claimed to be the who called Paul.

If the jw see the Holy Spirit as an impersonal active force like sanddust, they cannot be Christians. Because You need the Holy Spirit to convict you. Inanimate object cannot convict you.