@Wiegraf, I am surprised u don't know that everything is conscious including Matter.

This shows how ur atheism is a fake, because ur master scientists bosses know this

FOLYKAZE:

the priest. Considering what Ifa stated in relation with your Ori.

what ifa said? pls explain more...

for example, if you say all these are just abstract energies what then does killing a goat do for the 'energies'? pls don't tell me it is humans that eat it. we know that already...my question is, why kill a goat for, say, gravity/thunder/lightning? is there a non-mumbo jumbo explanation as to how sacrificing anything to an abstract energy is useful?

lol. I heard alot bro.

But I have seen stunts live in a movie production group. A guy was burnt....and his skin was not touched. Note, this could be trick but it amazing and there is no jupiter like that can tell me to play with fire.

@bold, bros this is no way magical or spiritual or anything. there are solvents you can rub on your body etc anyway, that is beside the point...

macof: @Wiegraf, I am surprised u don't know that everything is conscious including Matter.

This shows how ur atheism is a fake, because ur master scientists bosses know this

everything we see is matter. is everything conscious?

@bold, why do you continue in this folly?

Mr Troll: everything we see is matter. is everything conscious?

@bold, why do you continue in this folly?

Yes Everything is conscious. Anything that can react and change is conscious- Everything can react and change.

It's nt folly, it's so obvious NL atheist are not "free-thinkers". Most of you disbelieve everything without giving it a chance of trial or a thorough research.

For instance Wiegraf has never heard that Matter is conscious that is why he didn't believe when Folykaze said Rocks are conscious. He never bothered to think over it, he simply dismissed it like Atheist dismiss anything they haven't heard before.
And by "heard" I mean heard from an established scientist.

"If modern science hasn't proven it, then it's illogical and lame"
^^^That's the Motto

I haven't seen major so called atheist like LB, wiegraf, RM make any scientific theory with proof, I haven't seen any of you talk about Atomic structures and Energy. I haven't seen any NL atheist make a philosophy on certain spheres of life.

You all wait for western scientist to tell u wat is logical before u know wat is logical

Mr Troll: what ifa said? pls explain more...

Much like when one goes to see a modern medical doctor, going to the Babalawo starts off with something much like diagnosis right? The doctor will bring out his instruments and check you up. Information gotten from this equipments are what the doctor would interpret and detail you about your body system.

When the doctor physically check you out with instruments such as stethoscope, thermometer, etc. the Babalawo will consult the Ifa on your behalf. Babalawo will places it either on your arm or your forehead and ask Ifa what the energies in your situation are. Even if you do not reveal any symptoms or say details to the Babalawo, they will consult Ifa and Ifa will reveal all. The Babalawo must interpret the divination and they will most usually do so with the use of Ese.

There is this nurse I live with when I was young. She had a digital medical check kit that look pen. I have forgotten it name. When I read info stated on this kit by checking myself, it meaniless to me but it contain some informations which the nurse know and understand. So the Nurse said what the kit stated. Hope you understand?

Mr Troll: for example, if you say all these are just abstract energies what then does killing a goat do for the 'energies'? pls don't tell me it is humans that eat it. we know that already...my question is, why kill a goat for, say, gravity/thunder/lightning? is there a non-mumbo jumbo explanation as to how sacrificing anything to an abstract energy is useful?

Note something Mr. English terms does not convey the whole picture of an expression sometimes. That is why I prefer conception than vocabularies.

Ebo in Yoruba = Nourishment in English.

When you nourish energies, it is not in the same sense when we grind food with our teeths and roll it with our tongue.

And again, understand that my explanation on sacrifices wont give the whole picture as I personally do not understand the whole logic around it.

Metaphysically speaking, within the universe we are all connected to each other on earth. We are all connected by energy - we are made up of millions of tiny molecules and so is everything else.

Sacrifice actively recharge an Orisa’s cosmic ase-battery. Sacrificing an animal nourishes the spirits (with blood) and the community (with meat) thereby indexing the powerful link between humanity and the Orisa as they are both nourished by a single ritual process. What sacrifice does is nourish the Orisa’s ase that is intrinsic to their existence which then gives the ase inherent in Orisa pots more efficacy, power, and presence.

Quantum physics is showing that everything in the universe is energy and electrical currents. Who knows if the content in the blood can devise and manipulate this energies? Lets take for example.... Sacrificing a blood to Ogun. Ogun is Iron. What you pour the blood on and the blood itself contain iron in different degrees and charges. Who knows when the two contact, it lead to cosmic ether? The possible way that it works, from a scientific and quantum mechanic standpoint, is that the sacrifice, emits electromagnetic wavelengths. Everything in the universe works on waves, from physical objects, to electricity, to ideas.

Given enough patience and focus, our electromagnetic "brain waves", if you will, can be subconsciously manipulated to alter the way we interact with the universe.

Mr Troll: @bold, bros this is no way magical or spiritual or anything. there are solvents you can rub on your body etc anyway, that is beside the point...

Magic is an art which does not have detailed explanation yet.

Real Witchcraft is a spiritual art rooted in nature & psychology, not hocus-pocus like fiction.

I didn't claim the person burning with fire is doing magic. I even said the stunt could be trick. So understand me pls

macof:

Yes Everything is conscious. Anything that can react and change is conscious- Everything can react and change.

It's nt folly, it's so obvious NL atheist are not "free-thinkers". Most of you disbelieve everything without giving it a chance of trial or a thorough research.

For instance Wiegraf has never heard that Matter is conscious that is why he didn't believe when Folykaze said Rocks are conscious. He never bothered to think over it, he simply dismissed it like Atheist dismiss anything they haven't heard before.
And by "heard" I mean heard from an established scientist.

"If modern science hasn't proven it, then it's illogical and lame"
^^^That's the Motto

I haven't seen major so called atheist like LB, wiegraf, RM make any scientific theory with proof, I haven't seen any of you talk about Atomic structures and Energy. I haven't seen any NL atheist make a philosophy on certain spheres of life.

You all wait for western scientist to tell u wat is logical before u know wat is logical

Guy you dey vex o.

FOLYKAZE:

Much like when one goes to see a modern medical doctor, going to the Babalawo starts off with something much like diagnosis right? The doctor will bring out his instruments and check you up. Information gotten from this equipments are what the doctor would interpret and detail you about your body system.

When the doctor physically check you out with instruments such as stethoscope, thermometer, etc. the Babalawo will consult the Ifa on your behalf. Babalawo will places it either on your arm or your forehead and ask Ifa what the energies in your situation are. Even if you do not reveal any symptoms or say details to the Babalawo, they will consult Ifa and Ifa will reveal all. The Babalawo must interpret the divination and they will most usually do so with the use of Ese.

There is this nurse I live with when I was young. She had a digital medical check kit that look pen. I have forgotten it name. When I read info stated on this kit by checking myself, it meaniless to me but it contain some informations which the nurse know and understand. So the Nurse said what the kit stated. Hope you understand?



Note something Mr. English terms does not convey the whole picture of an expression sometimes. That is why I prefer conception than vocabularies.

Ebo in Yoruba = Nourishment in English.

When you nourish energies, it is not in the same sense when we grind food with our teeths and roll it with our tongue.

And again, understand that my explanation on sacrifices wont give the whole picture as I personally do not understand the whole logic around it.

Metaphysically speaking, within the universe we are all connected to each other on earth. We are all connected by energy - we are made up of millions of tiny molecules and so is everything else.

Sacrifice actively recharge an Orisa’s cosmic ase-battery. Sacrificing an animal nourishes the spirits (with blood) and the community (with meat) thereby indexing the powerful link between humanity and the Orisa as they are both nourished by a single ritual process. What sacrifice does is nourish the Orisa’s ase that is intrinsic to their existence which then gives the ase inherent in Orisa pots more efficacy, power, and presence.

Quantum physics is showing that everything in the universe is energy and electrical currents. Who knows if the content in the blood can devise and manipulate this energies? Lets take for example.... Sacrificing a blood to Ogun. Ogun is Iron. What you pour the blood on and the blood itself contain iron in different degrees and charges. Who knows when the two contact, it lead to cosmic ether? The possible way that it works, from a scientific and quantum mechanic standpoint, is that the sacrifice, emits electromagnetic wavelengths. Everything in the universe works on waves, from physical objects, to electricity, to ideas.

Given enough patience and focus, our electromagnetic "brain waves", if you will, can be subconsciously manipulated to alter the way we interact with the universe.

I think i'm gonna call a time out on bullshit. Time out!!!

Magic is an art which does not have detailed explanation yet.

Real Witchcraft is a spiritual art rooted in nature & psychology, not hocus-pocus like fiction.

I didn't claim the person burning with fire is doing magic. I even said the stunt could be trick. So understand me pls

magic is skillful trickery.

there's nothing like real witchcraft. just some magic mixed with superstition and enough fear mongering.

Mr Troll: I think i'm gonna call a time out on bullshit. Time out!!!

Folykaze stated that he cant provide whole logical explanation on the subject.

Good for ya though.

Mr Troll: magic is skillful trickery.

there's nothing like real witchcraft. just some magic mixed with superstition and enough fear mongering.

Yes sir.

FOLYKAZE:

Folykaze stated that he cant provide whole logical explanation on the subject.

its simple really.
just call it ignorant superstition by those men. it doesn't mean you are disrespecting your ancestry. it is what it is. they didn't know how some things worked so they made up supernatural explanations for them and proceeded to 'appease' the gods of whatever it is they couldn't explain in other to get favourable outcomes.

you don't have to try to rationalize everything they did. some are just ignorant superstitions. shikena!

Mr Troll: its simple really.
just call it ignorant superstition by those men. it doesn't mean you are disrespecting your ancestry. it is what it is. they didn't know how some things worked so they made up supernatural explanations for them and proceeded to 'appease' the gods of whatever it is they couldn't explain in other to get favourable outcomes.

you don't have to try to rationalize everything they did. some are just ignorant superstitions. shikena!

This is not making any sense.

- they aint making superstitions. Personification of a phenomena to explain something to the best way you can is not superstition. We have educated children to build and reconstruct this theories. Not for a mockery point.

- they know things work but cant give explanation for it. Medicine is a good example. They pluck leaves for healing an ailment. It work fine but the old man in the village cant explain how it works. Intelligence evolve.....we here are regressing intelligence by mocking it instead of developing it from where they stopped. Let me give you example of what I discovered but cant explain till date. Wrap rags (osuka) like ones used for lifting load. Catch a goat and make it sleep on the floor. Then place the wrapped rag on it face covering it eye and ear. Lol. The goat go sleep be that. He no go shake not to talk of stand on it feet even till after hours. I did thing like this for fun and it work. But can I explain it? Nope. What if I can devise it for capturing wild animal......and I still dont have explanation for it, will you call it superstition? If this and what local medicine is superstition, then go figure for yourself.

- Supernatural is a term used to describe a phenomenon which are unexplanable yet and which are attributed to Spirits or Gods. Have I not explained that spirits and Gods are personified energies? I even said somewhere that when there are explanations for a supernatural event, it becomes norms and add up to knowledge. Isaac Newton made most of his theories from occultism. We are tired of insulting, mocking and bashing. Do the needful....you cant expect an illiterate in the village or person like me that hardly know the 20 elements and common physics law to make up a model from the ancient science.

- Truth. We need to separate dogmatism from the plain fact. We need to unveil the naturalistic illustrations and deep philosophies embedded in spiritualism. Carl Sagan said science is the profound source of spirituality. We go in their and bring sense....not that we pack all as nonsense. Buddhism have superstitions but Sam Harris still embrace it. Hinduism in practically pantheism but Darwin sexed it up with his atheism. They do this by separating fable from fact.


Goodnight

FOLYKAZE:

Local Medicines are not

strictly herbal medicines are not, true. but most times bullshit is mixed in and then we don't know where nature stops and where bullshit begins...

^^^^ Oga troll. I edited the content pls. Check it again

FOLYKAZE:

This is not making any sense.

really?

- they aint making superstitions. Personification of a phenomena to explain something to the best way you can is not superstition. We have educated children to build and reconstruct this theories. Not for a mockery point.

superstition


/ˌsuːpəˈstɪʃ(ə)n,ˌsjuː-/


noun

1.
excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural.

"he dismissed the ghost stories as mere superstition"


synonyms: unfounded belief, credulity;
"medicine was riddled with superstition and ignorance"
a widely held but irrational belief in supernatural influences, especially as leading to good or bad luck, or a practice based on such a belief.

- they know things work but cant give explanation for it. Medicine is a good example. They pluck leaves for healing an ailment. It work fine but the old man in the village cant explain how it works. Intelligence evolve.....we here are regressing intelligence by mocking it instead of developing it from where they stopped. Let me give you example of what I discovered but cant explain till date. Wrap rags (osuka) like ones used for lifting load. Catch a goat and make it sleep on the floor. Then place the wrapped rag on it face covering it eye and ear. Lol. The goat go sleep be that. He no go shake not to talk of stand on it feet even till after hours. I did thing like this for fun and it work. But can I explain it? Nope. What if I can devise it for capturing wild animal......and I still don't have explanation for it, will you call it superstition? If this and what local medicine is superstition, then go figure for yourself.

you are missing the point. what I will term superstition for example is when you start saying that there is a spirit of sleepiness in the rag that is making the goat docile and then start making sacrifices to the spirit in order to increase or manipulate its efficacy.

- Supernatural is a term used to describe a phenomenon which are unexplanable yet and which are attributed to Spirits or Gods. Have I not explained that spirits and Gods are personified energies? I even said somewhere that when there are explanations for a supernatural event, it becomes norms and add up to knowledge. Isaac Newton made most of his theories from occultism. We are tired of insulting, mocking and bashing. Do the needful....you cant expect an illiterate in the village or person like me that hardly know the 20 elements and common physics law to make up a model from the ancient science.

we are saying the same thing, except that not all things claimed as supernatural should be taken seriously.

- Truth. We need to separate dogmatism from the plain fact. We need to unveil the naturalistic illustrations and deep philosophies embedded in spiritualism. Carl Sagan said science is the profound source of spirituality. We go in their and bring sense....not that we pack all as nonsense. Buddhism have superstitions but Sam Harris still embrace it. Hinduism in practically pantheism but Darwin sexed it up with his atheism. They do this by separating fable from fact.


Goodnight

do this also. try to separate fact from fable. a plant cures stomach ache, true but surely you can dismiss a babalawo who says that pikiwoki, the spirit of healing dwells in that plant.

macof: @Wiegraf, I am surprised u don't know that everything is conscious including Matter.

This shows how ur atheism is a fake, because ur master scientists bosses know this

The day you're capable of following my thought processes I'll jump off a cliff.

I hope you guys remembered to give sango his vitamins yesterday?! follycraze and macjerkoff

nnofaith: I hope you guys remembered to give sango his vitamins yesterday?! follycraze and macjerkoff

you were asked to define nourishment. Do that fool.

wiegraf:

Why are you running from folykaze animalistic humane wiegraf?

You can survive the cold. But I mean to take you to the middle of the sea where you will freeze. Come along by replying my rebuttal post.

Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.[3] Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.[4] As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."[5]
Philosophers since the time of Descartes and Locke have struggled to comprehend the nature of consciousness and pin down its essential properties. Issues of concern in the philosophy of consciousness include whether the concept is fundamentally valid; whether consciousness can ever be explained mechanistically; whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be recognized; how consciousness relates to language; whether consciousness can be understood in a way that does not require a dualistic distinction between mental and physical states or properties; and whether it may ever be possible for computing machines like computers or robots to be conscious.
At one time consciousness was viewed with skepticism by many scientists, but in recent years it has become a significant topic of research in psychology and neuroscience. The primary focus is on understanding what it means biologically and psychologically for information to be present in consciousness—that is, on determining the neural and psychological correlates of consciousness. The majority of experimental studies assess consciousness by asking human subjects for a verbal report of their experiences (e.g., "tell me if you notice anything when I do this". Issues of interest include phenomena such as subliminal perception, blindsight, denial of impairment, and altered states of consciousness produced by psychoactive drugs or spiritual or meditative techniques.
In medicine, consciousness is assessed by observing a patient's arousal and responsiveness, and can be seen as a continuum of states ranging from full alertness and comprehension, through disorientation, delirium, loss of meaningful communication, and finally loss of movement in response to painful stimuli.[6] Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill, comatose, or anesthetized people, and how to treat conditions in which consciousness is impaired or disrupted.[7]

from wikipedia

Yoruba views of the world make an important distinction between orun or heaven on the one hand, and aiye or the world on the other.[3] Orun contains Olorun, the orisa and lesser spirits and ancestors, while aiye contains men, animals, sorcerers and witches. Sorcerers and witches are sometimes referred to as omaraiye, 'children of the world'. Mediating between orun and aiye are Orunmila, the orisa of divination, and Esu, the Yoruba trickster. Ifa divination provides man with knowledge of the supernatural, while Esu is responsible for carrying sacrifices to other divinities. He is unpredictable and needs constant appeasement (cf. Westcott, 1962). Often Ifa will simply prescribe an offering to Esu, but a portion of the sacrifice is still set aside for him, even when the offering is to another orisa.

The orun/aiye distinction is important in understanding Yoruba concepts of life, death, destiny, reincarnation and the soul. This is one of the most complex areas of Yoruba thought, and generalisation is particularly difficult in view of differences in terminology between areas (e.g. Bascom, 1960a). However a relatively consistent picture does emerge.

Firstly, Yoruba thought makes a distinction between the physical body (ara) and the spiritual elements which inhabit it and give it life and individuality. The published accounts differ about the number, names and characteristics of these spiritual elements, but generally the two which appear as the most important are the 'breath', emi, and the 'head', ori.[4]

Emi is generally thought of as the vital force, without which the body dies. In some accounts it is also thought of as the conscious self. It not only provides locomotion for the body, but can think independently of it, and can travel abroad on its own in dreams (cf. Bascom, 1960: 401).

Ori is more complex. In some accounts, it, rather than emi, is the seat of the intellect. It is also related to a person's destiny, as the element which predetermines his success or failure in the world. The relationship between ara, emi and ori is illustrated by an Ifa verse (Dos Santos, 1973; Abimbola, 1973) in which the body is moulded by Orisanla, the emi is provided by Olorun, and the ori is provided by Ajala. Ajala the potter is said to be a careless and corrupt orisa. Those who pay him get a good ori and those who do not have to take their chance, as many of the ori in his store are faulty. A man with a good ori is able to achieve success in the world, provided he can ward off the dangers of witchcraft, sorcery and other attacks by pmparaiye. Ori is thus given to, or chosen by, an individual before his birth, creating limits within which success in the world can be expected, and within which the emi is able to act.

In contrast to this rather fatalistic model, ori is also said to be the 'ancestral guardian soul', a spiritual entity which can be influenced by man in his efforts to improve his life on earth. In his account of Egbado, Morton-Williams describes it as the 'indwelling spirit of the head, presiding over success or failure in day-today affairs' (1967a: 222). A man should worship his own ori, together with those of his children until they are adults. The ori is represented by a container made out of cowrie shells. Inside are the smaller models of the ori of the children, which are exchanged for larger ones when they marry. A similar model is implied by beliefs in the existence of a spirit double in heaven. Bascom was told that each individual has two ancestral guardians, one in his head, and one in heaven which is doing exactly the same things as the individual himself is doing on earth (1960a: 406). With the support of the ancestral guardian in heaven, a man will live out his allotted span of life. It is at times necessary to make offerings to the heavenly ori which is sometimes described as an orisa.

These varied conceptualisations of the spiritual components of the person have parallels with those of other West African peoples, and represent similar attempts to deal with the same underlying reality: the structure of the personality. In his discussion of the Tallensi and Kalabari material, Horton (1961) draws a parallel between 'the Freudian ideal of an Unconscious Self ó a purposive agency whose desires are unknown to consciousness and are frequently in conflict with it', and the Tallensi notion of destiny, which is 'a life course chosen by a part of the personality before birth, a course both hidden from the post-natal consciousness and frequently opposed to the latter's aims'. The Yoruba concept of ori in some accounts has rather similar characteristics, though it is unclear whether an individual can confront and exorcise an unsatisfactory destiny as is the case with the Tallensi and Kalabari.

Related to beliefs in emi and ori are beliefs in reincarnation. Many Yoruba are identified through resemblance, dreams or divination as being reincarnations of particular ancestors, and are given names such as Babatunde ('father returns') or Yetunde ('mother returns'). However, even after this 'reincarnation', these ancestors may still be invoked to help their descendants. Bascom's informants in Meko told him that the emi remains in heaven as the ancestral spirit, while the ancestral guardian soul is reborn, with a new body, breath and destiny (1960a: 404-5). It also appears to be possible for several individuals to be simultaneous reincarnations of the same ancestor, and in some areas resemblance between members of the same descent group is explained in this way (ibid: 404; cf. Idowu, 1962: 194ó5).

Also related to the orun/aiye distinction are beliefs in abiku spirits (Verger, 1968; Morton-Williams, 1960a). An abiku may be born in a child on earth, but it soon leaves for heaven again, and the child dies. The abiku spirits have their own egbe in heaven, and when one of them leaves for earth, he promises to return quickly to his companions. If a woman gives birth to a succession of children who die in infancy, it may be divined that it is an abiku at work, and the next child is given special treatment. Abiku children are given special names ó examples are Aiyedun, 'life is good', implying that the child should stay to enjoy it, or Durosinmi, 'stay and bury me', implying that the child should outlive its parents. The appearance of these children is often neglected, and they might even be disfigured to make them less attractive to their companions in heaven. It is normal to postpone the circumcision or scarification of an abiku child until it appears likely that it will survive.

Finally, the orun/aiye distinction is relevant to Yoruba beliefs about death and the ancestors. Death marks the transition to the afterlife, and much of the symbolism of Yoruba burial ritual is that of a journey. The dead go to one of two orun, depending on how they are judged by Olorun: orun rere, or 'good heaven', for the virtuous, and orun apadi, 'potsherd heaven', for the wicked, where they are tormented and from which they cannot be reborn (Idowu, 1962: 197ó201; Bascom, 1960a: 403ó4).

Death also involves a transformation of the personality of the dead person into an ancestral spirit. The ancestors take an active interest in members of their descent groups, and can give them advice through dreams and trances. Anyone can pray and make offerings to a dead parent for spiritual protection, and the bale makes an annual offering on behalf of the descent-group members, usually on the grave of its founder. According to Abimbola (1973: 75), each adult who dies becomes an orisa to his own family. These beliefs are related to the concept of ori. According to Bascom, these annual sacrifices are made on the day on which the founder used to make offerings to his own ori (1969a: 72); and according to Morton-Williams, an adult can make prayers and offerings to the ancestors or the ori of a living parent for spiritual protection (1967a: 223).

Representing the ancestors, but assuming a role which cuts across descent-group boundaries, are the egungun masqueraders (Morton-Williams, 1956a; 1967a: 340ó7; Bascom, 1969a: 93-4; cf. Olajubu and Ojo, 1977). They are dressed from head to foot in elaborate costumes, and their faces are obscured by nets through which they can see. There are several types of egungun. The omo egungun, 'children of egungun' or 'junior egungun', have costumes made out of brightly coloured strips of cloth and leather which swirl out as their wearers dance round. The agba egungun, 'senior egungun', have costumes made out of dirty rags and masses of clay with animal skulls and charms embedded in them. Egungun masks are inherited within the descent group, and the agba masks can only be worn by men who have learned the necessary rites to counteract their power. The Egungun cult, like Oro, emphasises the separation between men and women.[5] The masks are only worn by men, and apart from a woman official called the Iya Agan and her deputies who help the men dress, women are not supposed to know the identity of the wearers. It is dangerous for women to touch the masks, and some of the agba egungun are believed to be able to identify witches, who in Yoruba culture are almost always women.

Egungun appear in two contexts during funeral ceremonies. In some areas it is customary for an egungun to emerge from the room of the dead man some time after the burial, and to imitate him while he brings greetings from the dead to the other members of the compound. Secondly, during the celebrations which follow the death of an elderly person, the relatives may pay the members of the cult to come and dance for them.

The dual significance of the Egungun cult as a commemoration of individual ancestors and as a representation of the collective dead acting on behalf of the community as a whole comes out clearly in Morton-Williams' account of the festival in Egbado (1956a). After the vigil with which the festival starts, there is a procession of agba egungun together with the members of their descent group and drummers, demonstrating the solidarity of the groups that own the masks. On subsequent days of the festival there is less emphasis on kinship, and the other types of egungun join in.

^^^^ is this for real?

You were asked to define nourishment not consciousness.

You even cant define consciousness but ran to wiki and copied this trash. How is nourishment now consciousness? I dont know am dealing with a obfuscating nitwit and unrepentant goof.

I am done with you. Enjoy your foolishness

Eshu
Picture
If you’ve got a message you’d like to get to the heavenly realm, this is the guy to talk too. The messenger to the Orishas, God, and other spiritual beings, any time you offer a sacrifice be sure to cut him in or he might not be inclined to get your message where you want it to go. Just a hint for smokers out there, among his favorites is tobacco. Eshu lives at the crossroads of fortune so if a practitioner is also at a crossroads in their own life, it’s often Eshu that’s called upon for help. Often associated with change, he can be a help for those perusing their destiny as long as they respect him, otherwise he might be inclined to throw them off course.

Eshu should be regarded with caution because he’s also very fond of tricks and practical jokes, especially the ones that add a little spice to life by throwing husbands and wives, friends, or sometimes whole towns into arguments. This follows with the belief that chaos and disorder can’t exist without the other so Eshu often takes it upon himself to bring a little unpredictability to the table to keep things interesting. Author Stephen Prothero describes him as “both policeman and troublemaker- whom Christians have often confused with the devil.”

Orunmila
Picture
Orunmila is the prophet responsible for developing the system of Ifa divination. While it’s important to remember that Ifa has always been, Orunmila is the guy who figured out how to sort of bridge the gap between Heaven and Earth by developing the divination techniques described on the last page.

One of the most important Orishas, Orunmila stands for stability and harmony as opposed to Eshu who loves to spark chaos. As legend has it, when once Eshu was threatening him, he laughed and told Eshu to go ahead and do what he would , because if he died then so would Eshu, because chaos cannot exist without order and the other way around. Some consider the two along with Olodumare a sort of Yoruba trinity. Said to be short, very dark, and the most intelligent of all the Orishas, Orunmila is omnipotent and can not only tell the future by also knows the destinies of all of humanity.

Oshun
Picture
The goddess of rivers and the only female present at Creation, Oshun is considered extremely beautiful doused with jewelry and lovers. She is the goddess of everything from fertility to sex and is said to control the sexual attraction of all creatures. Though she is the Orisha often turned to for guidance and help during childbirth (as the entire abdominal area is sacred to her), she also relishes in the pure pleasure that can be found in the union of the male and female and for this reason is associated with honey.

However it is not only external beauty that’s associated with her but the deepest aspects of femininity that make women what they are and are often beyond words or physical description.

However she’s not all sugar and spice as her association with all things lovely might imply. Legend has it that she’s not only a big fan of beer, knives, and poisons but that she can also be quite flippant in her own escapades of love. She moves easily from lover to lover, dismissing men from her presence for the slightest annoyance and when she tires of the game entirely peaces out and turns herself into a river.

Obatala
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Rumored to be among the oldest and wisest of the Orishas, Obatala is associated with white and his followers regularly wear the color (as well as lead bangles) and strive to be as morally clean as Obatala’s gleaming white robe. His enjoyment of the color can also be seen in his temples which are painted white and he is said to enjoy doves, rice, and coconuts, all of which have the color in common. Obatala is said to be the owner of heads (where the Yoruba believe one of our souls is located) and therefore lays claim to everyone’s unless someone is officially inducted into the priesthood of another Orisha.

Palm wine is a touchy subject for Obatala and his followers are not allowed to touch the stuff as it proved quite diminishing for their patron Orisha. As the story goes Obatala hit the palm wine bottle a little too hard when he was supposed to be creating the world and by the time he woke up from his drunken stupor, the once in a lifetime opportunity had been stolen from him by another Orisha named Oduduwa (rumored to be his younger brother). Furious, Obatala swore off palm wine forever but as anyone who has sworn off anything forever knows, it doesn’t always work out that way. It seems Obatala had a bit of a relapse as he was fashioning the bodies of people (though he didn’t technically give them breath), and it was during this escapade that he accidently invented dwarfs, hunchbacks, and other people with physical deformities who are to this day sacred to his followers.

Ogun
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Ogun, much like Ares of Greek mythology is the fiery god of iron, war, politics, justice, hunting and these days even technology. Said to be the first Orisha who ever came to earth, different stories claim that he either arrived to find sutible living conditions for humanity or hacked a trail through the great abyss that separated the Orishas from humans at the time.

Not unlike Obatala, Ogun too had quite a misfortune with palm wine when he found himself drunk on it as he engaged in battle in Nigeria long ago. Apparently he became so enraptured with the battle that he found himself slaying not only enemies but friends as well. Some say that when he realized what he’d done he turned his sword on himself and sank into the ground. Others claim that he disappeared into the woods where he hunted and fashioned farmer’s ploughs but either way he’s a bit of a tragic figure.

However despite this mishap Ogun is also considered a fierce defender of justice and in traditional Yoruba courts, witnesses swear by kissing a iron rather then placing hand on the Bible. Also very found of politics, many give him credit for the Haitian Revolution of 1804 as he is said to have planted the idea in the heads of Haitian slaves and helped them to attain their victory.

Shango
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Said to be one of the most popular Orishas, Shango got his start as a mere mortal like you or I and was the third king of the Oyo empire during his lifetime. In his death however he achieved Orisha status and lives in the sky wielding lightning bolts which he throws at those he chooses to be his followers. This is said to leave behind the imprint of a stone ax blade on the earth and any Yoruba who knows how to look for them can easily spot these after a good rain. Being chosen to be one of Shango’s followers is quite an honor as his people traditionally possess great power and self-control. That said, he was also a major symbol of African resistance during the European slave trade. He’s also quite popular due to his representation of male sexuality and virility in general.
Oya
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Said to be Shango’s favorite wife, she acquired from him the gift of lightning which comes in quite handy since one of her favorite pastimes includes creating storms such as hurricanes and tornados (which are said to be her whirling skirts). Very fond of destruction of any sort, she is also the spirit of earthquakes, fire, magic, and change. Due to her close associations with transition, she is also said to be the guardian of cemeteries and is known to have a very warrior like spirit. She is also said to be the Orisha of the Niger river and can turn herself into a water buffalo.

Yemoja
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The patron of women (especially pregnant ones), the ocean, and motherhood in general, Yemoja was said to be the mother of about 15 different Orishas including Ogan and Shango. Others go as far as to say that all life sprang forth from her but regardless she is very respected.

Osanyin
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Osanyin is the Orisha of healing herbs and if you’ve ever gotten into natural medicane, it’s said that nothing you’ve made has worked without his help whether you know it or not. Said to have a high pitched squeaky voice, he is often depicted with only one leg and in different traditions also either one eyed, one armed, or with one huge ear and one tiny one.

The thread is for Sango and a mad man is bringing up Egungun. You have embarrassed the real atheist on this forum. From the beginning of this thread, you didn't add anything tangible than foolish rant.

You were asked to define Nourishment and you ran to wiki and copied Consciousness definition. Who asked you that?

From Sango now to Egungun. Chai.

And na person born you? Reginus...abeg abeg there is a yaba left client here.

Shango
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Said to be one of the most popular Orishas, Shango got his start as a mere mortal like you or I and was the third king of the Oyo empire during his lifetime. In his death however he achieved Orisha status and lives in the sky wielding lightning bolts which he throws at those he chooses to be his followers. This is said to leave behind the imprint of a stone ax blade on the earth and any Yoruba who knows how to look for them can easily spot these after a good rain. Being chosen to be one of Shango’s followers is quite an honor as his people traditionally possess great power and self-control. That said, he was also a major symbol of African resistance during the European slave trade. He’s also quite popular due to his representation of male sexuality and virility in general.



so how did shango become electrical energy?!!

Guys, let's stay on topic please.
On a serious note, the Sango proponents seem to be getting their pound of flesh. No question has been difficult for them to answer so far.

I expect tougher questions and positions.

more to come later in the day. got to work now.

Reyginus: Guys, let's stay on topic please.
On a serious note, the Sango proponents seem to be getting their pound of flesh. No question has been difficult for them to answer so far.

I expect tougher questions and positions.

Shut up


You want to flame the fire so that more nonsense arguments would come. Sango my foot....

FOLYKAZE: The thread is for Sango and a mad man is bringing up Egungun. You have embarrassed the real atheist on this forum. From the beginning of this thread, you didn't add anything tangible than foolish rant.

You were asked to define Nourishment and you ran to wiki and copied Consciousness definition. Who asked you that?

From Sango now to Egungun. Chai.

And na person born you? Reginus...abeg abeg there is a yaba left client here.

you cherry picked stuff to make your false claims, one needs a wholistic understanding of yoruba culture and beliefs to call out your bs

In Yorùbá mythology, Ṣàngó (Sango, Xango, Shango, Changó in Latin America, also known as Jakuta) is perhaps the most popular Orisha; he is a Sky Father, god of thunder and lightning. Sango was a royal ancestor of the Yoruba as he was the third king of the Oyo Kingdom. In the Lukumí (O lukumi = "my friend" religion of the Caribbean, Shango is considered the center point of the religion as he represents the Oyo people of West Africa. The Oyo Kingdom was sacked and pillaged as part of a jihad by the Islamic Fulani Empire. All the major initiation ceremonies (as performed in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Venezuela for the last few hundred years) are based on the traditional Shango ceremony of Ancient Oyo. This ceremony survived the Middle Passage and is considered to be the most complete to have arrived on Western shores. This variation of the Yoruba initiation ceremony became the basis of all Orisha initiations in the West.
The energy given from this Deity of Thunder is also a major symbol of African resistance against an enslaving European culture. He rules the color red and white; his sacred number is 6; his symbol is the oshe (double-headed axe), which represents swift and balanced justice. He is owner of the Bata (3 double-headed drums) and of music in general, as well as the Art of Dance and Entertainment.He is represented with Saint Jerome
Mythology

Sango (or Jakuta) was the fourth king of Oyo in Yorubaland, and deified after his death; mythologically, he (along with 14 others) burst forth from the goddess Yemaja's body after her son, Orungan, attempted to rape her for the second time. of course there are several myths regarding the birth and parentage of Sango. He is a major character in the divination literature of the Lukumi religion. Stories about Sango's life exemplify some major themes regarding the nature of character and destiny. In one set of stories Sango is the son of Aganju and Obatala. As the story goes, Obatala, the king of the white cloth was travelling and had to cross a river. Aganju, the ferryman and god of fire, refused him passage. Obatala retreated and turned himself into a beautiful woman. He returned to the river and traded his/her body for passage. Sango was the result of this uneasy union. This tension between reason represented by Obatala and fire represented by Aganju would form the foundation of Shango's particular character and nature. In further patakis Sango goes in search of Aganju, his father, and the two of them play out a drama of conflict and resolution that culminates with Shango throwing himself into the fire to prove his lineage. All of the stories regarding Shango revolve around dramatic events such as this one. He has three wives; his favorite (because of her excellent cooking) is Oshun, a river goddess. His other wife, Oba, another river goddess, offered Sango her ear to eat. He scorned her and she became the Oba River, which merges with the Oshun River to form dangerous rapids. Lastly, Oya was Shango's third wife, and stole the secrets of his powerful magic.
The story of Sango and Oba carries the familiar refrain, "all that glitters is not gold". As has been stated Sango had three wives, Oba, his first and legitimate wife, Oya, his second wife, and Oshun his concubine. At that time and in that place they would live in a compound. In that compound, Sango had his own house and each wife had her own house surrounding his. He would then visit his wives in their houses to eat and to sleep with them. Oba noticed that when Sango went to the house of Oshun he would eat all of the food that she prepared for him but when he came to her home he would just pick. Oba, wanting a closer relationship with her husband, decided to ask Oshun how she kept Sango so happy. Oshun, being asked this, was filled with resentment. As children of the first wife, Oba's children would inherit Sango's kingdom. Her children would not have nearly the same status, being born from his concubine. She decided to play a trick on Oba, out of jealousy. She told Oba that many years ago she had cut a small piece of her ear off and dried it. From this she made a powder she would sprinkle on Sango's food. As he ate it, she told Oba, Sango would desire the food and Oshun all the more. Oba, excited by this information, ran home to prepare Sango's amala, his favorite meal. Once it was done she decided that if a little piece of Oshun's ear produced such an effect her whole ear would drive Sango mad with desire for her and he would forget Oshun forever. She sliced off her ear and stirred it into Sango's food. When Sango came to eat he sat down and began eating without looking at his dish. When he finally glanced down he saw an ear floating in the stew. Shango, thinking Oba was trying to poison him, drove her from his house. Oba ran from the compound, crying, and fell to earth to become a river, where she is still worshipped today. As an Orisha she is the patron of matrimony and is said to destroy marriages that abuse either partner.
Worship of Shango

The religious ritual of Sango was possibly designed in order to help the devotees of Sango gain self-control. Historically, Sango brought prosperity to the Oyo Empire during his reign. After deification, the initiation ceremony dictates that this same proseperity be bestowed upon followers, on a personal level. According to Yoruba and Vodou belief systems, Sango hurls bolts of lightning at the people chosen to be his followers, leaving behind imprints of stone axe blade on the Earth's crust. These blades can be seen easily after heavy rains. Worship of Sango enables- according to Yoruba belief- a great deal of power and self-control. Sango altars often contain a carved figure of a woman holding a gift to the god with a double-bladed axe sticking up from her head. The axe symbolizes that this devotee is possessed by Shango. The woman's expression is calm and cool, for she is expressing the qualities she has gained through her faith. The orisha, or gods, are Yoruba ancestors or incarnate natural forces. Some of them are ancient, created in the beginning of time by the Great God, Ollorun. Orisha may be considered natural forces such as rivers, mountains, stones, thunder, or lightning. There are two categories of Orisa, which are grouped according to personalities and modes of action. This group of gods mostly consists of males, but there are a few females. Sango's wife, Oya is also included as a “hot Orisa”. She is the queen of the whirlwind. This Orisa tends to be harsh, demanding, hostile and quick to anger. Other “hot Orisa” include Ogun, god of iron and Obaluaye, lord of pestilence. The second category of Orisa are the Orisa funfun—“the cool, temperate, symbolically white divinities”. These are the gentle, calm, and mellow Orisa. They include: Obatula/Orisonla, the divine sculptor; Osooli/Eyinle, lord of hunting and water; Osanyin, lord of leaves and medicine; Oduduwa, first king of Ile Ife.
Orisa are divine but also deified ancestors of Yorubaland. Sango fits both of these descriptions, for his is not only the embodiment of thunder, but also a hero of the Oyo Empire.
The ibori is the symbol of a person's inner spiritual essence or individuality known as iponri. The ibori is cone shaped and repeats throughout Yoruba culture. The top of an ibori is called the oke iponri. This tip is made from the person's placenta and symbols of deities or ancestors. The deity, Sango, is represented by wind.

Logicboy03:


Shut up


You want to flame the fire so that more nonsense arguments would come. Sango my foot....

Zombie is coming for your head. Lol


Peter Peter Peter.....dont let me call mary margelene and Judas on you.

Logicboy03:


Shut up


You want to flame the fire so that more nonsense arguments would come. Sango my foot....

Lololol. I expected people like you to debunk the traditionalists.

Reyginus: Lololol. I expected people like you to debunk the traditionalists.

He is scared of tradition. He said it severally that he is scared. Imagine his typed called Osanyin 'doll' but was challenged to go and converse with the doll but said he was scared. Which kind human being doll dey scare?

Logicboy is Peter incarnate. Lol

FOLYKAZE:

He is scared of tradition. He said it severally that he is scared. Imagine his typed called Osanyin 'doll' but was challenged to go and converse with the doll but said he was scared. Which kind human being doll dey scare?

Logicboy is Peter incarnate. Lol

.

Lol.....see this joker.