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For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by maclatunji: 1:16am On Dec 27, 2013
X-factoria:


How come you didn't see examples of countries who divided successfully? There are examples of Uzbekistan, Kargaztan, Chechenya, (all the xxxx...tans from the former soviet union), the eastern european countries who came off of Yugoslavia, those who broke away from Czechoslovakia, and coming to Africa - Eritrea successfully broke away from Ethiopia in 1993!

Pointing to a seemingly challenged disintegration would not invalidate the objective call for the disintegration of Nigeria. One fundamental thing that makes the case for disintegration more compelling is the lack of a common heritage among many constituent tribes that make up Nigeria. Hausa has no shared history with Yoruba, Igbo, Ijaw, Efik, Ibibio, Jukun, Berom, Kanuri etc so it is extremely difficult to appeal to a common heritage to sue for peace and understanding. The only thing that can make up for this is a binding agreement derived from a genuinely constituted national conference in which all member nations in Nigeria would agree to deal with each other based on agreed terms - more like the terms by which many independent states became a member of the Union in United States. Absent this, we are better off parting ways.

I did not bring examples of those countries for 2 primary reasons:

1. The advocates of separation in Nigeria did not emphasize them.

2. Over and above point 1, I know for certain that the factors in Africa are much different. You gave the example of Ethiopia/Eritrea which buttresses my point: the 2 countries have fought brutal battles over border demarcation and are technically still at war.

Do you want to be at war?
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by macof(m): 1:22am On Dec 27, 2013
texanomaly:

I wasn't even born when Nigeria became a country. How did I cause it's problems? As far as I know you were not born then either. History speaks for itself though. World history, specifically the rise and fall of civilizations happens to be a hobby. Pick up a history book. Learn something.


Besides...that's why I'm here, to learn. Tell me the points I brought up will not be a problem, or give me some kind of solution. Don't be condescending and then tell me I'm wrong.

You have a fine way of stroking grin
Are u a journalist?

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by maclatunji: 1:24am On Dec 27, 2013
I suggest that anyone saying Eritrea "successfully" became independent from Ethiopia read this.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrean–Ethiopian_War
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by texanomaly(f): 1:48am On Dec 27, 2013
macof:

You have a fine way of stroking grin
Are u a journalist?

...and you have a fine way of evading my inquiries, and making me smile while you do it. tongue

I used to be an English teacher btw.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by DerideGull(m): 2:00am On Dec 27, 2013
maclatunji:

I did not bring examples of those countries for 2 primary reasons:

1. The advocates of separation in Nigeria did not emphasize them.

2. Over and above point 1, I know for certain that the factors in Africa are much different. You gave the example of Ethiopia/Eritrea which buttresses my point: the 2 countries have fought brutal battles over border demarcation and are technically still at war.

Do you want to be at war?

The reason for the war is manifested by the myopic attitude towards disintegration by Africans such as you. There should be no wars if Africans have learnt to managed their businesses without intrusion by outsiders. In addition, the inability of African to manage their rude tendencies to assume control of things that do not even legally belong to them.

There are many countries that have disintegrated lately. For example, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and USSR have peacefully disintegrated except Yugoslavia that had little hitch which has been resolved.

The timidity you and ilk seemed to display towards disintegration of Nigeria explains the reason why African countries remain unprogressive and perpetually suffer under the devilish pressure of colonialism.

Even a mad man can discern from afar that Nigeria is a practical joke.

2 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by texanomaly(f): 2:17am On Dec 27, 2013
DerideGull:

The reason for the war is manifested by the myopic attitude towards disintegration by Africans such as you. There should be no wars if Africans have learnt to managed their businesses without intrusion of an outsides. In addition, the inability of African to manage their rude tendencies to assume control of things that do not even legally belong to them.

There are many countries that have disintegrated lately. For example, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and USSR have peacefully disintegrated except Yugoslavia that had little hitch which has been resolved.

The timidity you and ilk seemed to display towards disintegration of Nigeria explains the reason why African countries remain unprogressive and perpetually suffer under the devilish pressure of colonialism.

Even a mad man can discern from afar that Nigeria is a practical joke.




If they bolded is true, are you sure that it doesn't have more to do with your curupt leadership.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by DerideGull(m): 2:41am On Dec 27, 2013
texanomaly:

If they bolded is true, are you sure that it doesn't have more to do with your curupt leadership.

Society produces leadership. Nigeria has the aforementioned society. Corrupt leadership = Nigeria.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 2:44am On Dec 27, 2013
texanomaly:

You're assessment is right on. Separation will surely lead to warring between the two. This, in turn, weakens both. This weakness will snowball on both sides, leading to economic and infrastructural damage that is detrimental. Many parts of Nigeria can not afford such devastation. Is it wise to step backward instead of moving forward? Not to mention, Nigeria has become a blended society. Are you willing to take up arms again your friends and family, for something that in the end weakens your standing in Africa. Also, what happens to those blended families? Do they separate to go to their respective country, or do they stay together and endure the discrimination that will ensue, no matter which side they choose. Is separation a benefit, if it is looked at with an eye to the future? Where will these two new countries stand in Africa in general. Is separation worth your standing as a 'Super Power' in Africa. Two separate countries would be left weak and vulnerable. Is this wise?

I can site more reasons why this move would be detrimental, but I'd like to hear some reasons why separation would benefit both sides first.

I wasn't going to post any comment on nairaland until next year. However, your post is really annoying and it's a tad bit condescending for someone who claims to "white" with a different history, experience and culture - to give opinions about what she has no clue about.

Firstly, where's the "blended society"/"blended families" in Nigeria, when the country is forever divided along ethnic lines? Or perhaps, you're citing inter-marriages among the groups, which is also in the minority because the overwhelming majority of the people from the various ethnic groups marry within their groups. Based on your logic - I guess since there are many Nigerians married to people from other countries around the world - Nigeria should also be amalgamated with these countries, yes? Err...they should be able to create a super "blended society"/"blended families" country.

Secondly, Nigeria as it's and it has ever been, is a very weak country. It might be strong on paper,however, any country that can't cater for its people - and that's utterly useless in the scheme of things in international politics, is a weak country. So citing "weakness" of whatever emerging countries that might come out of Nigeria, is a tad bit simplistic and dumb. Since Nigeria is also weak. At the end of the day, "weakness" is relative in Africa. However, if the emerging countries can build strong institutions (something that has been elusive to Nigeria) and cater for their people - then the superficial "standing as a Super Power in Africa" is inconsequential.

Lastly, what's going on in South Sudan has no correlation whatsoever with what those asking for the disintegration of Nigeria, are asking for. Sudan was divided along religious lines before (more like breaking Nigeria along religious lines, into North and South) and that had more to do with ignorance than anything else. The war that led to break-up had more to do with colourism (since Arab isn't a race) and the fight for superiority between a "superior" group and an "inferior" one. However, what's going on there right now, was what most analysts envisioned - due to the fact that the two ethnic groups are distinct. I would say South Sudan is more or less like Nigeria. Moreover, Nigeria as it's might experience what's currently happening in South Sudan, if the existence of the country isn't renegotiated. The intolerance would continue as the population grows, till it reaches a boiling point. The American system of government isn't for Nigeria. Yanks are immigrants, with an overwhelming white population. And the white majority control the country. Their interest is the American interest - others have no say whatsoever. Unlike Nigeria where there are three major groups with separate interests, consciousness and way-of-life.

3 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 2:51am On Dec 27, 2013
maclatunji: I have seen many posts in the last 2 years from people who are excited by the idea of dividing Nigeria across ethnic/religious lines hailing the independence of South Sudan from Sudan as an example of exactly what they want.

I have consistently written that breaking up Nigeria would lead to war among/within the successor states with dire consequences for the people and Africa in general.

To the advocates of secession, what are your thoughts on your "favourite" example for Nigeria now?

Next time, read the background story before comparing apples to oranges. Sudan was divided along religious/colour lines. Thus, making South Sudan another Nigeria. The two warring groups are distinct.

Anyway, how come most of you lot who're scared of disintegration are Yoruba's? You lot have to be the most timid and ignorant people ever. You've got a region that's geographically blessed and well placed to achieve greatness. With enough human and natural resources to pull it off - however, most of you would rather be in perpetual servitude and continue to dance azonto in a vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment - than rally round one another to build a strong country. Yoruba's are doomed! undecided

5 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 5:06am On Dec 27, 2013
maclatunji: I have seen many posts in the last 2 years from people who are excited by the idea of dividing Nigeria across ethnic/religious lines hailing the independence of South Sudan from Sudan as an example of exactly what they want.

I have consistently written that breaking up Nigeria would lead to war among/within the successor states with dire consequences for the people and Africa in general.

To the advocates of secession, what are your thoughts on your "favourite" example for Nigeria now?

1. There's nothing wrong with balkanization of Nigeria. You don't stay in a forced terrible marriage because you think the next attempt will equally be bad. As for South Sudan, she made the right choice fighting for independence from arab colonialism. How would South Sudanese have tolerated imposition of Sharia when majority of them had and still have nothing to do with Islam?

2. However, we do not have to fragment this country to have a stable nation that works for the majority of her citizens. We can achieve a stable Nigeria if we make a TRULY federal constitution with principles of derivation well articulated and entrenched in it. If you break Nigeria along North-South divide without adopting a TRULY federal constitution for the multi-ethnic, multi-lingual South, and even the North, same problems of political instability, mutual distrust, ethnic tensions will persist. But if you fashion a federal structure where groups or nations with close affinity can develop at a reasonable pace without being hindered by any central authority, all will be fine. It's naive to think Yoruba and Igbo will co-exist peacefully within a unitary South Nigeria. It WILL never happen.

3.I am not a bit surprised at the turn of events in South Sudan. The transitional constitution of 2011 is entirely unitary and for a multi-ethnic society, it's just a matter of time for the consequences to lay bare for all to see. The two largest ethnic groups-Dinka and Nuer- are suspicious of each other and are competing to dominate the country. The unitary system has turned the presidency to trophy. While the president is from Dinka, the vice president is from Nuer. The president, Kiir, has gone dictatorial with the dismissal of state governors(states of Lakes, Unity and Jonglie) who were elected by the people without replacement through the same democratic process. He simply appointed his loyalists to man such position. The vice president, Machar, questioned the move. Each side is fighting or scheming to win in order to curry advantage at the expense of the other. Whoever dominates the national government, dominates all. It's a fight to finish.

PS: Had the South Sudanese made a negotiated federal constitution- a la Ethiopia-instead of a rushed TRANSITIONAL unitary constitution, the story would be different today. It has been a raging debate in South Sudan for the past eighteen months or thereabout on what permanent constitution to adopt. While some favor a federal constitution, others especially the powers that be support unitary constitution. The federalists, like Nigeria, are being accused of promoting tribalism. Now, it's a matter of time, Nigeria will exceed her own elastic limit and the violence ll be like one never witnessed in history. So, a united Nigeria where the resources of a section of the country are appropriated, unfairly, to sustain the rest of the nation is not sustainable and not in anyway DIFFERENT from South Sudan.

If Nigeria adopts Ethiopia's federal model, she should be fine.

3 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Dereformer(m): 5:31am On Dec 27, 2013
Alfa Seltzer:

There is a certain religion that only sees everything through bloodshed, violence and destruction.

Is it Islam?

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 6:17am On Dec 27, 2013
Following national news about Nigeria is gonna be very interesting from this year 2013-2015.
Because I'm a little sure something big, and 1966-like will happen!
Since Jonathan assumed power, there has been political and security tension within the country got worse.
Everything is crumbling down day by day and 2015 election, whatever the outcome will be, will be bad!
I'm so watching!
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by onegig(m): 6:26am On Dec 27, 2013
Alfa Seltzer:

There is a certain religion that only sees everything through bloodshed, violence and destruction.
Please dont bring religion into this.

Was it religion that caused the civil war of 1966?

You can always pass your points without sounding like a bigot.Thank you
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 6:44am On Dec 27, 2013
Sam_Ikenna: But the Jihadists in the core north have been killing all of us since 1945 so what is the difference. I guess by your standard it would have been better if the fake Arabs of north Sudan and their supporter of APC were the ones killing the christian south Sudan. What a joke!
killing all of you?
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 6:53am On Dec 27, 2013
In the words of General Gowon " Keeping Nigeria as one is a task that most be done". Its high time we all say no to this dangerous trend of advocating for break up of this country which will inevitably lead to bloodsheed.

War is not picnic think about the wives and children that will be rendered fatherless or the bloodbath and chaos that will follow the break up of this country.

3 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by OrlandoOwoh(m): 7:17am On Dec 27, 2013
DerideGull:

I have serious disdain for characters that seem to forget historic facts so soon. There is nothing that will make me happier than see Nigeria disintegrated. I always tend to err on the side of history and this time around it points to the social decorum obtained in the era of regionalism. There were four regions in Nigeria, thus, Northern, Western, Mid-western and Eastern regions. Both eastern and mid-western region never experienced school riots talk less of political riots. But this scenario was not obtained either in western region or northern region where social and political unrest were main stay.

Those people who suddenly become soothsayers that predict hell on earth if Nigeria disintegrates are moronic never-do-well jerks with diabolical ulterior motives. They have silly assumption that the state of today's dilapidated Nigeria favors their stinking tribal enclave without seeing the bigger picture of massive developments without any form of inhibition.

I have no doubts that sanity will flourish in both defunct eastern and mid-western regions if Nigeria is faced with disintegration.
DementedGull, you'll have to leave where you currently are for Nigeria, nay Biafra where you would take part in the campaign like you did between 1967 to 1970.

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Akshow: 7:21am On Dec 27, 2013
Sam_Ikenna: But the Jihadists in the core north have been killing all of us since 1945 so what is the difference. I guess by your standard it would have been better if the fake Arabs of north Sudan and their supporter of APC were the ones killing the christian south Sudan. What a joke!
u forgot to mention what provoke the "jihadist" to start their senseless killing in the first place. Not that I support violence but take part of the blame. The killings of southerners in the north was a reprisal revenge for the killing of their leaders in what we all know was an "igbo" coup. That is d genesis of tribal killings in Naija.

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by texanomaly(f): 7:46am On Dec 27, 2013
@ shymexx...

You are right. I do not know enough about this situation to make any sort of assessment. I am sorry. I will refrain from making statements or judgements on this subject. Thank you for pointing that out.

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Nobody: 7:48am On Dec 27, 2013
imsu.boi:



You're not Nigerian & you've obviously not been to Nigeria before.

I don't see how this discussion is any of your business undecided

Kindly fvck off! angry angry
man your signature is funny a'f'.
It is true.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by AbuMikey(m): 8:10am On Dec 27, 2013
imsu.boi:



You're not Nigerian & you've obviously not been to Nigeria before.

I don't see how this discussion is any of your business undecided

Kindly fvck off! angry angry




Damn!!!


Relax bro, Chill wink

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by imsuboi(m): 8:19am On Dec 27, 2013
talking about tribal killings, let's hope it doesn't degenerate into this

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by jmoore(m): 8:19am On Dec 27, 2013
Make una go wake up Lord Lugard na.

Nigeria will continue to be in existence and your great grand children will be very proud of her.

One Nigeria!

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by imsuboi(m): 8:20am On Dec 27, 2013
Abu Mikey:




Damn!!!


Relax bro, Chill wink


Abu, park well o!
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by dexentity: 8:25am On Dec 27, 2013
I'm all for one Nigeria, but, the way some people seems to think that their land will suddenly become a land flowing with milk and honey once the country breaks up ilks me. These are people that can't hold their respective state governors responsible for decadent state of their states, and these same governors and other corrupt powerful politicians are the ones that will keep runninng things in the emergent countries so I wonder if there is gonna be any changes after the break up. Let the country break up if it is just to prove a point to those that can not see beyond their nose.

3 Likes

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by Reptyle(m): 8:26am On Dec 27, 2013
All the agitators for division exist only on Nairaland. The people that matter know the implication of division and WILL NEVER allow it to happen...at least not deliberately. The sooner we learn to live together in peace and harmony, the better for us all. We do not always have to be friends...but we can get along if we apply our minds to it.

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by asha80(m): 8:37am On Dec 27, 2013
Akshow: u forgot to mention what provoke the "jihadist" to start their senseless killing in the first place. Not that I support violence but take part of the blame. The killings of southerners in the north was a reprisal revenge for the killing of their leaders in what we all know was an "igbo" coup. That is d genesis of tribal killings in Naija.
engage your brain..coup was in 66 while the killings he talked about was in 45.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by SamIkenna: 8:43am On Dec 27, 2013
Reski: killing all of you?

Akshow: u forgot to mention what provoke the "jihadist" to start their senseless killing in the first place. Not that I support violence but take part of the blame. The killings of southerners in the north was a reprisal revenge for the killing of their leaders in what we all know was an "igbo" coup. That is d genesis of tribal killings in Naija.


It's either y'all are newbies in Nigeria history or you're feigning ignorance. Anyhow, ethnic killings in Nigeria started in 1945 ok. And if you guessed who started it you wouldn't be far from the truth. The only problem I have with all these is - why did my so-called leaders press forward on collective independence with implacable and bloodthirsty jihadists in the face of cataclysmic cultural incompatibility and impending doom? This question continues to beat my imagination. I can only say it's blind optimism, unrealistic pan-Africanism, and personal greed. In all of the above I have zero blame for the Uthman Dan fodios. I blame my own leaders, and as long as there's life in me and my generation we will get this job done right this time. Expansionist jihadists and children of Zion have nothing in common. They can continue with their usual threats - I wish them luck because they need it to stop this avalanche.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by 9jii(m): 8:44am On Dec 27, 2013
AKUNWATA1: SUPER MOD MACLATUNJI IS A BIG JOKE.....NAIJA IS GONNA DIVIDE AND NOFIN I MEAN NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.... MBE AMA EFE


some fools tried it in the 60s something really did happen.
Pity guys with small thinking coz of their selfish interest

1 Like

Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by SamIkenna: 8:53am On Dec 27, 2013
Reptyle: All the agitators for division exist only on Nairaland. The people that matter know the implication of division and WILL NEVER allow it to happen...at least not deliberately. The sooner we learn to live together in peace and harmony, the better for us all. We do not always have to be friends...but we can get along if we apply our minds to it.

Good luck on that. I think most one-nigerianists have a common diseases. They underestimate the resolve, will, and the unanimity of some group to abandon the Nigerian ship. 2015 and beyond will show who's been delusional all along.
Re: For Those Who Claim Sudan As An Example For Nigeria by maclatunji: 9:09am On Dec 27, 2013
DerideGull:

The reason for the war is manifested by the myopic attitude towards disintegration by Africans such as you. There should be no wars if Africans have learnt to managed their businesses without intrusion by outsiders. In addition, the inability of African to manage their rude tendencies to assume control of things that do not even legally belong to them.

There are many countries that have disintegrated lately. For example, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and USSR have peacefully disintegrated except Yugoslavia that had little hitch which has been resolved.

The timidity you and ilk seemed to display towards disintegration of Nigeria explains the reason why African countries remain unprogressive and perpetually suffer under the devilish pressure of colonialism.

Even a mad man can discern from afar that Nigeria is a practical joke.




Your analysis is useless if it did not forecast ab initio a high probability of war in both examples after independence. Revisionism or 'benefit of hindsight' analysis is useless when people start getting killed based on the wrong notions of pundits like you.

By the way, I am more interested in Nigeria's peculiarities.

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