Bidam: You couldn't have said it better bro...Atheist thrives on lies and deceit. Only gullible and ignorant folks will swallow what they say without making proper and adequate research..Kudos!

...and you make research before swallowing what ur pastor says...

peterphd:

my question on how six people populated the earth in 100 years to be able to build a tower that threathened God still stands Olaadegbu and pimples please try to answer.

That is very possible.
People got married very early back then.
Since man was still close to perfection, I'll assume infertility was non-existent. Folks back then were very virile.
Hence 25 years after the flood would have us see each of noah's 3 sons having an average of 10 sons each (it's possible. Back then there was no family planning)
If they each got married at the start of puberty then it's quite possible to have a good number to start the tower of Babel

Like I said eairlier, Using scientific knowledge as a basis for judging events in the past would be faulty.
Even science is quite limited in what it currently knows.
As for the argument about species, even science does not have a complete record of all the species on earth. Infact, new species are still being discovered till today.
Some of this new species might actually be variants of previously known species that changed due to certain yet to be known factors
Just like a mixed dog breed might be confused to be a new specie if the breeding process was not documented.

The best we can do is speculate.
There is nothing immpossible for the creator of life God.
We just need more faith in him.

Pimples:

That is very possible.
People got married very early back then.
Since man was still close to perfection, I'll assume infertility was non-existent. Folks back then were very virile.
Hence 25 years after the flood would have us see each of noah's 3 sons having an average of 10 sons each (it's possible. Back then there was no family planning)
If they each got married at the start of puberty then it's quite possible to have a good number to start the tower of Babel

Like I said eairlier, Using scientific knowledge as a basis for judging events in the past would be faulty.
Even science is quite limited in what it currently knows.
As for the argument about species, even science does not have a complete record of all the species on earth. Infact, new species are still being discovered till today.
Some of this new species might actually be variants of previously known species that changed due to certain yet to be known factors
Just like a mixed dog breed might be confused to be a new specie if the breeding process was not documented.

The best we can do is speculate.
There is nothing immpossible for the creator of life God.
We just need more faith in him.

I don't agree with your "close to perfection" stance. If man fell, he became imperfect immediately.There's no measurement of the level of perfection.

The pyramids in Egypt were built by about 20000 - 30000 people.Even if 6 people gave birth 10 kids every 25 years, we would not have up to 2000 PEople on earth.How then was the tower of babel built?

I haven't talked about species.I only asked how Noah went to Australia to get koalas and kangaroos,how he got mosquitoes, who was the host of all the micro-organisms we have today.Tell us how this was done.

You creationists don't wanna mention evolution so I'll take your "yet to be known factor" as evolution.You say we can only speculate and you are telling us to accept this as absolute truth?

I still await answers on how the various races of humans on earth came from the ark and how the Egyptian pyramids were built if the flood ever happened.We do NOT need faith, we need hard evidence just the way you'd demand evidence if it was a Muslim telling us Mohamed went to heaven on the back of a winged beast.

Watching this thread with great interest. I'm a bit disappointed that my christian brethren haven't tried harder to answer the questions from my first 2 posts. The bible cannot be wrong, so I guess you guys just don't have the spirit of discernment to decipher its secrets.

Also I just want to point out that the archeological record shows clear evidence of farming of rice and domestication of animals in China as far back as 7500BCE. Since then, the record is continuous with no breaks consistent with a flood. Which leads me to another question: How come the Chinese people didn't know they had all died in the flood and instead just kept on farming and making pottery to us to find thousands of years later?

Again, I'm not doubting the ark story. I just want to know the whole truth.

Evil Brain:

Watching this thread with great interest. I'm a bit disappointed that my christian brethren haven't tried harder to answer the questions from my first 2 posts. The bible cannot be wrong, so I guess you guys just don't have the spirit of discernment to decipher its secrets.

Also I just want to point out that the archeological record shows clear evidence of farming of rice and domestication of animals in China as far back as 7500BCE. Since then, the record is continuous with no breaks consistent with a flood. Which leads me to another question: How come the Chinese people didn't know they had all died in the flood and instead just kept on farming and making pottery to us to find thousands of years later?

Again, I'm not doubting the ark story. I just want to know the whole truth.

Na evil brain dey worry you.

Evil Brain: Watching this thread with great interest. I'm a bit disappointed that my christian brethren haven't tried harder to answer the questions from my first 2 posts. The bible cannot be wrong, so I guess you guys just don't have the spirit of discernment to decipher its secrets.

Also I just want to point out that the archeological record shows clear evidence of farming of rice and domestication of animals in China as far back as 7500BCE. Since then, the record is continuous with no breaks consistent with a flood. Which leads me to another question: How come the Chinese people didn't know they had all died in the flood and instead just kept on farming and making pottery to us to find thousands of years later?

Again, I'm not doubting the ark story. I just want to know the whole truth.

Let me make it simple and short. The TALE about NOAH's ARK is a LIE. It was simply EXAGERRATED. End of discussion.

OLAADEGBU:

Cosmo Vern said: "I'd like to point out, in addition to my earlier reply, that only one of two scenarios could have allowed 3.6 million animals (1.8 million species, in pairs) and 8 humans to fit on the ark. 1. God shrank the animals so they'd all fit. 2. Noah was a Time Lord and the ark was a TARDIS."

Response:

There's one more scenario you haven't considered. See if you can spot the repetition of a particular word that skeptics dislike:

"Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive" (Genesis 6:20).

That's right, it's the dreaded word "kind"—that archaic word that the dictionary defines as "a class or group of individual objects, people, animals, etc., of the same nature or character, or classified together because they have traits in common." It's a despised word because it means God didn't have to get today’s approximately 6.5 million species to fit onto the ark. It means Noah needed only one pair for the canine kind—from which would come all the species of dog, from the Chihuahua to the Great Dane—and one pair for the feline kind—from which would come the domesticated cat and the tiger, etc. So now we are talking just thousands of animals, not millions. And because these animals need not have been fully grown (averaging the size of a sheep), it becomes possible.

Another consideration is the size of the ark. It wasn't the little rubber-ducky-bobbing-boat portrayed in kid's cartoons. It was a massive three-level ship, the size of one and a half football fields.

This response settles all the agitation and objections of the skeptics if they are to be honest.

OLAADEGBU:

This response settles all the agitation and objections of the skeptics if they are to be honest.

It settles nothing. So Noah was a time lord? So all the animals were shrunk? Does anyone really believe this?
Why is it so hard to believe that LIES may have been told? These religious BOOKS were WRITTEN by MAN so why would we just sit down and assume everything was truthful.
As an example, imagine if the NOAH's ARK incident happened in our generation and the compilers of the records are the current men of GOD we have today. Wouldn't it be foolish for people 6000 years later to just believe everything they compiled?

phuck_NL:

It settles nothing. So Noah was a time lord? So all the animals were shrunk? Does anyone really believe this?
Why is it so hard to believe that LIES may have been told? These religious BOOKS were WRITTEN by MAN so why would we just sit down and assume everything was truthful.
As an example, imagine if the NOAH's ARK incident happened in our generation and the compilers of the records are the current men of GOD we have today. Wouldn't it be foolish for people 6000 years later to just believe everything they compiled?

The point you made was in reference to the objection your fellow skeptic made. Why would I be surprised you think the same way?

OLAADEGBU:
This response settles all the agitation and objections of the skeptics if they are to be honest.

It settles nothing unless if you throw away your senses and allow indoctrination and myths to take over. . .Where in the bible was it written that the animals were not fully grown?. . .You expect people that believed the entire world was flooded by their sadistic god to know anything about kind?. . .So tigers, lions, cats etc were all the same kind as such only one of them was taken into the ark, eh?. . .See how you delude your self. . .Noah's ark remains a myth that only happend in the pages of a story book called the bible. . .Until you can provide historical evidence to show that there were no people living in China, India, Egypt and South and North America 4300s ago when the mythical flood happened, you have no business doing here propagating your ridiculous mytholgy and delusions. . .

Ranchhoddas: God in heaven!who is an atheist?fyi, i am a christian that enjoys atheistic arguments-a rational christian,the implausibility of Noah's story is monumental but as usual u try to force urself to believe it. China has 3000 years history,are u drunk?have u heard of the aborigines?google is ur friend and not answers in genesis.no wonder you are the laughing stock of this section.

lol.. These guys eh!..

@olaadegbu

why are you evading my questions? you are the op of this thread and i wold like to know what you think about my questions.

Even china acknowledges the flood of Noah story
The Lolo group or tribe of china have a well known folklore that has very close similarities to the bible's account
Some of the similarities are
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

Also It is of interest that the Chinese character for “ship”
is derived from the idea of “eight persons in a
vessel.” This bears a striking resemblance to the
Bible account about Noah and his family, eight
persons, who survived the Flood in an ark


.................................
.................................
Check out this link to see detailed analysis showing that the bible's account about what happened is not impossible
http://creation.mobi/how-did-all-the-animals-fit-on-noahs-ark

Pimples: Even china acknowledges the flood of Noah story
The Lolo group or tribe of china have a well known folklore that has very close similarities to the bible's account
Some of the similarities are
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html

Also It is of interest that the Chinese character for “ship”
is derived from the idea of “eight persons in a
vessel.” This bears a striking resemblance to the
Bible account about Noah and his family, eight
persons, who survived the Flood in an ark


.................................
.................................
Check out this link to see detailed analysis showing that the bible's account about what happened is not impossible
http://creation.mobi/how-did-all-the-animals-fit-on-noahs-ark

Will post a rebuttal tomorrow.Goodnight

peterphd:

Noah's ark dimensions :300 cubits long (137.16 m, 450 ft), 50 wide (22.86 m, 75 ft), and 30 high (13.716 m, 45 ft); (wikipedia)

The length of the pitch for international adult matches is in the range of 100–110 m (110–120 yd) and the width is in the range of 64–75 m (70–80 yd). (wikipedia)

[b]How is noah's ark bigger than 2 football pitches now eh?[/b]Stop trying to deny historical evidence just to prove your book.my question on how six people populated the earth in 100 years to be able to build a tower that threathened God still stands Olaadegbu and pimples please try to answer.

"Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits and its height thirty cubits. You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second and third decks" (Genesis 6:14-16).

Noah's Ark was a massive three-level ship, the size of one and a half football fields and for your other questions you will have to open other threads for it to be treated.

OLAADEGBU:

"Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits and its height thirty cubits. You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second and third decks" (Genesis 6:14-16).

Noah's Ark was a massive three-level ship, the size of one and a half football fields and for your other questions you will have to open other threads for it to be treated.

A ship that size can't contain enough food for 2 elephants to survive a year, not to talk about food for the millions of other species and space for the animals themselves. Maybe the bible translation is wrong and the ark was actually the size of 1000 football fields? That sounds closer to the mark.

And I wonder how 6 people were able to build such a ship? And out of wood? Even if it was really 1.5 football fields long, it would have been ridiculously fragile. Wood doesn't have the tensile strength to hold its shape at such a scale. A wooden ship of that size would have snapped like a toothpick on even the gentlest of waves. There's a reason nobody builds large ships out of wood anymore. A wooden ship without a metal skeleton wouldn't last 5 minutes in a storm. Pretty much all the wooden ships ever built that were over a 100 meters long either sank or were scrapped after a few years because of their fragility.

Then there is the technical difficulty of building such a ship. Even with modern technology and hundreds of years of shipbuilding experience, it still takes thousands of people to build far smaller boats. Noah and his sons built the largest wooden ship in history, with zero knowledge and experience, and no technology, not even the wheel (it hadn't been invented yet). And that's despite God handicapping them with an unworkable and structurally unsound rectangular design.

Those guys (and their wives) deserve an award!

Evil Brain:

A ship that size can't contain enough food for 2 elephants to survive a year, not to talk about food for the millions of other species and space for the animals themselves. Maybe the bible translation is wrong and the ark was actually the size of 1000 football fields? That sounds closer to the mark.

Why not? God didn't have to get today’s approximately 6.5 million species to fit onto the ark. Noah needed only one pair for the canine kind—from which would come all the species of dog, from the Chihuahua to the Great Dane—and one pair for the feline kind—from which would come the domesticated cat and the tiger, etc. So now we are talking just thousands of animals, not millions. And because these animals need not have been fully grown (averaging the size of a sheep), it becomes possible.

Evil Brain:

And I wonder how 6 people were able to build such a ship? And out of wood? Even if it was really 1.5 football fields long, it would have been ridiculously fragile. Wood doesn't have the tensile strength to hold its shape at such a scale. A wooden ship of that size would have snapped like a toothpick on even the gentlest of waves. There's a reason nobody builds large ships out of wood anymore. A wooden ship without a metal skeleton wouldn't last 5 minutes in a storm. Pretty much all the wooden ships ever built that were over a 100 meters long either sank or were scrapped after a few years because of their fragility.

What do you know about marine archaeology? Have you ever heard of a Chinese treasure ship of Yung He in the 1400s? Another older contender is the ancient Greek trireme Tessarakonterres

Evil Brain:

Then there is the technical difficulty of building such a ship. Even with modern technology and hundreds of years of shipbuilding experience, it still takes thousands of people to build far smaller boats. Noah and his sons built the largest wooden ship in history, with zero knowledge and experience, and no technology, not even the wheel (it hadn't been invented yet). And that's despite God handicapping them with an unworkable and structurally unsound rectangular design.

Noah's Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research centre based in South Korea. Dr. Hong's team compared 12 hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. The found out that no hull shape was found to significantly outperform Noah's design. In fact, the 4,300 year old biblical design would have lost its balance if the proportions were modified, thus rendering the Ark either unstable, prone to fracture or dangerously uncomfortable. The research team found that the proportions of Noah's Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability, comfort and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.

Evil Brain:

Those guys (and their wives) deserve an award!

The professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the Ark.

Evil Brain:

And I wonder how 6 people were able to build such a ship? And out of wood? Even if it was really 1.5 football fields long, it would have been ridiculously fragile. Wood doesn't have the tensile strength to hold its shape at such a scale. A wooden ship of that size would have snapped like a toothpick on even the gentlest of waves. There's a reason nobody builds large ships out of wood anymore. A wooden ship without a metal skeleton wouldn't last 5 minutes in a storm. Pretty much all the wooden ships ever built that were over a 100 meters long either sank or were scrapped after a few years because of their fragility.

Then there is the technical difficulty of building such a ship. Even with modern technology and hundreds of years of shipbuilding experience, it still takes thousands of people to build far smaller boats. Noah and his sons built the largest wooden ship in history, with zero knowledge and experience, and no technology, not even the wheel (it hadn't been invented yet). And that's despite God handicapping them with an unworkable and structurally unsound rectangular design.

Those guys (and their wives) deserve an award!

Human designs are prone to error
However, remember that the ark was designed by God.
And also before then, rain had never fell before so we'll assume that ships were quite rare or betterstill nonexistent.
He directly handed down the specifications to Noah.
He is the greatest architect as is evidenced by the complexity found in every aspect of the design of the universe. Which funnily, science tries to copy.
Infact there is a relatively new field of science known as Biomimetics that exclusively copies design from God and Nature.


Now it was very possible for 8 people to build the ark.....they really did not have time constraints.....I think construction of the ark took more than 40 years (let me confirm from my Bible)
So this makes it really feasible for 8 people to construct something that large.

OLAADEGBU:

"Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch. And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits and its height thirty cubits. You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second and third decks" (Genesis 6:14-16).

Noah's Ark was a massive three-level ship, the size of one and a half football fields and for your other questions you will have to open other threads for it to be treated.

How was the ark ventilated? Only one window on the uppermost deck wouldn't be enough and there were no windows on lower decks.

Pimples:

Human designs are prone to error
However, remember that the ark was designed by God.
And also before then, rain had never fell before so we'll assume that ships were quite rare or betterstill nonexistent.
He directly handed down the specifications to Noah.
He is the greatest architect as is evidenced by the complexity found in every aspect of the design of the universe. Which funnily, science tries to copy.
Infact there is a relatively new field of science known as Biomimetics that exclusively copies design from God and Nature.


Now it was very possible for 8 people to build the ark.....they really did not have time constraints.....I think construction of the ark took more than 40 years (let me confirm from my Bible)
So this makes it really feasible for 8 people to construct something that large.

Guy abeg, no god handed anything to Noah.Tribes older than the Israelites have flood myths of supposedly divine origin so Noah's flood myth isn't the oldest flood myth and it is at best, plagiarised.8 stone-age men cannot build an ark of that proportion.The wheel wasn't invented, no saws, screwdrivers etc...what did they use to cut the trees?
Science copies nature because nature endows her species with qualities that enable them survive.Which God? I have always told you that Israelites don't have the oldest concept of god.why is your own real and not the older ones?

OLAADEGBU:

Why not? God didn't have to get today’s approximately 6.5 million species to fit onto the ark. Noah needed only one pair for the canine kind—from which would come all the species of dog, from the Chihuahua to the Great Dane—and one pair for the feline kind—from which would come the domesticated cat and the tiger, etc. So now we are talking just thousands of animals, not millions. And because these animals need not have been fully grown (averaging the size of a sheep), it becomes possible.

Are you now actually trying to use evolution and speciation to explain the ark? So now you believe in evolution abi? If I were you, I'd keep that can of worms closed. If we agree that evolution is real, then Genesis has far bigger problems than the ark story.

What do you know about marine archaeology? Have you ever heard of a Chinese treasure ship of Yung He in the 1400s? Another older contender is the ancient Greek trireme Tessarakonterres

The sizes of Zheng He's treasure ships is grossly exaggerated. Most historians believe that the largest was no more than 70 metres or so in length, half the size of the ark. Plus history records that they were only used in rivers because they were too dangerous to sail in the open sea.

The Tessarakonterres is a legendary ship known only from the writings of Plutarch and Athenaeus. Let me quote what Plutarch said about her:

But this ship was merely for show; and since she
differed little from a stationary edifice on land,
being meant for exhibition and not for use, she
was moved only with difficulty and danger.

Even Plutarch knew that a wooden ship that size couldn't possibly have sailed. Your two examples only illustrate how ridiculous the idea of a 137 metre wooden boat is.

Noah's Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research centre based in South Korea. Dr. Hong's team compared 12 hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. The found out that no hull shape was found to significantly outperform Noah's design. In fact, the 4,300 year old biblical design would have lost its balance if the proportions were modified, thus rendering the Ark either unstable, prone to fracture or dangerously uncomfortable. The research team found that the proportions of Noah's Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability, comfort and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.

First of all, that study was funded by the Korea association of creation research, a Christian creationist group thus calling into question its objectivity ab initio.
Secondly, if you'd bothered to read as far as the second paragraph of your Korean study's abstract, you'd have seen that it was done with 1/50 scale models. That automatically removes the ark's most obvious flaw, that wood cannot possibly survive the stresses sea waves put on a ship of anything even close to that size. It would have snapped like a toothpick in a crocodile's mouth within minutes.
Third, the study made huge assumptions about the shape and architecture of the ark and didn't take into account the technological limitations of the period.
Fourth, the dimensions of the ark (what the study compared) wasn't even the best among the 13 possibilities tested. It doesn't say much about say much about gods engineering skills when some random Korean can come up with a ship design that's more stable than his.

Your study is worth diddly squat.

mantraa: In answer to your questions,
All the animals were teleported to the ark location just before the flood and then teleported back to their original locations around the globe after the event.

To fit on the ark, all the animals were debigulated to a tiny fraction of their size, then re-bigulated when the flood was over, including some of the less sinful dinosaurs.

To account for the food and waste issues, all the animals were put in a state of suspended animation, this included all the salt water / fresh water fishes, whales, cretaceans, turtles and dolphins.

To account for the altitude and lack of oxygen, god created more oxygen for the planet so they could breathe and stay alive.

When the flood subsided, god siphened the water off the planet into space, creating the frozen ice asteroid belt and kuiper belt in the solar system.

Then he fixed the soil and hyper accelerated the growth of plants so that a dove will find a tree to indicate that land was nearby.

Remember that Yahweh is omnipotent, there is nothing he cannot do to make his ingenious and omniscient plan work.

Dude, are you trying to be sarcastic with your statements. I'm finding this very hilarious and at the same time totally absurd.

dominique:

lol, I've thought about it myself. how did he fit in all the animals in an ark in pairs. most of the animals alive today were not in existence back then. evolution occurred and one animal re-evelved to about 10 different species. that's the only scientific explanation i can give for it.

Evolution took place 6000 years ago? Are you kidding me?

Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.
On the issue of civilizations existing during the projected period of the genesis flood, there are no records of civilizations going back as far as that period, except for archaeological records, which base dating on the same faulty and not-completely-accurate radiocarbon dating.

So its either unacceptable that civilizations existed at that time,
Or,
The noah's ark was a myth that never existed.
Or it was a local flood.

Arguments from bias will never change anyone's positions.

On the question of region secluded animals, we're discussing the possibility of a global flood as recorded in the bible book of genesis. If this flood possibly occurred, as recorded in detail in the bible, then the landscape must have changed post-flood. You cannot argue on the basis of contemporary land seclusion when the landscape was different pre-flood.
Good.


On the very question of if species can diversify this much in about 4500 years,
First, we must establish the fact that if this flood was global as the bible puts it, these animals went outside to a new world as I have said, with different climates, soil, and ridden with "post-flood-flood" catastrophies about to happen/happening. These animals would have to adapt, thereby speciating, or die.
And there is more than enough observable evidence of organisms speciating and adapting greatly in numbers, in much shorter periods, talk less of 6000 years,
This evidence is from an evolutionist website, so you cannot claim it is biased(funny how it is biased when coming from creationist websites but it isn't when coming from evolutionist websites. Pathetic hypocrisy and dogma)

http://phylointelligence.com/observed.html#novel_organ

And to top it up, fossil records show that animals were much more prolific in the past, meaning reproduction, and thus adaptation was sped up.

For those talking of silly things like mosquitoes and viruses, you are either joking, or are foolish, speaking from bias, and not to be taken seriously.

For those who argue about the number of people contemplating building the tower post-flood period, read the bible. Your answer is there. If you still don't see it, come back here and we'll show you.


And for the interest of people who are confused on me using speciation and adaptation, thinking I support evolution, this just shows that I and other people like OLA, who do not agree completely with the theory, have been dismissed and analysed with intense bias and dogmatic hypocrisy, since you ask us such questions. It means you have been angry with us, and arguing with us about our non-acceptance of the theory, without even caring to understand our basic positions.

I believe in Speciation. It has been proved. It is scientific.
I believe in adaptation, it is a cause of speciation, and a common part of our everyday life.
I do not believe in speculative change above the level of speciation, change of kind. Nullifying common descent of all kinds from a common ancestor. It cannot be proved scientifically, and it is a preposterous and foolish guess, a self-destructive speculation that makes men more confused.
So I believe in speciation, and adaptation. If these changes(they are) that occur when organisms change to survive better in their environments are the basic definition of evolution, then I am an ardent evolutionist, and the bible is too.
But the speculation of change above the kind level is utter foolishness and is not even to be discussed. And if this unscientific propositions are what evolution is now defined as, then count me out of this foolishness.

Thank you and God bless.

Josh you are trying but trying too hard. My questions on the how the various races came about, how 6 people reproduced enough in 100 years to build the tower of babel, how the pyramids were built. You have been rejecting evolution but here, you're dancing around it and choosing parts to believe without saying evolution.If you so much doubt carbon dating technology, get into the lab, show how it is wrong and win the Nobel physics prize for Africa.

Joshthefirst: Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.
On the issue of civilizations existing during the projected period of the genesis flood, there are no records of civilizations going back as far as that period, except for archaeological records, which base dating on the same faulty and not-completely-accurate radiocarbon dating.

So its either unacceptable that civilizations existed at that time,
Or,
The noah's ark was a myth that never existed.
Or it was a local flood.

Arguments from bias will never change anyone's positions.

I have told you many times to stop telling lies for Jesus. . . .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/

http://io9.com/5828524/5000+year+old-carving-depicts-egypts-earliest-known-pharaoh

I gave you some links on China as well. . .still waiting for you to probide any historical evidence to show that there were no people licing in China, India and Egypt 4300 years ago. . .

Carbon dating is 95% accurate. . .It is not the only method of dating available. . . As peterphd as said, if you and the deluded people whose work you keep reading to remain ignorant actually believe that carbon dating is wrong then come forward show that it is wrong and win a Nobel peace price. Your deluded people in answers in genesis just keep poking holes by pointing at wrong or distorted studies to decieve people. They know very well that they are lying else they would have come out in the open challenge the method and win a Nobel peace price. . .the fact that they can't says it all. . .Where is your historical evidence to show that there were no people living in India, China and Egypt before, during and after the flood?. . .Where is it?. . .

The flood remains a myth, remember according to the story rainbows began to appear on earth after the flood as a convenant between yahweh and his people to let them know that he will never destroy the earth with water again. . .This is very false because rainbows are simply a refraction of water droplets when they come in contact with water droplets in the atmosphere, rainbows have been occuring for millions of years. . .Provide your evidence to show that water droplets in the atmostphere does not refract against light 4300 years ago. . .Infact rainbows occur in planet mars. . .Who did your god have a convenant with in that planent?. . .Stop believing nonsensical mythocal stories. . .Christians that really have looked at it acknowlwdge that it is false but had to say that it is a local flood so that they can keep believing, the foolish one will go to any extent to tell lies just so that they can justify their belief, example answers in genesis. . those guys are pure liars and fruadsters. . . .

Joshthefirst: Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.


On the very question of if species can diversify this much in about 4500 years,
First, we must establish the fact that if this flood was global as the bible puts it, these animals went outside to a new world as I have said, with different climates, soil, and ridden with "post-flood-flood" catastrophies about to happen/happening. These animals would have to adapt, thereby speciating, or die.
And there is more than enough observable evidence of organisms speciating and adapting greatly in numbers, in much shorter periods, talk less of 6000 years,
This evidence is from an evolutionist website, so you cannot claim it is biased(funny how it is biased when coming from creationist websites but it isn't when coming from evolutionist websites. Pathetic hypocrisy and dogma)

http://phylointelligence.com/observed.html#novel_organ

And to top it up, fossil records show that animals were much more prolific in the past, meaning reproduction, and thus adaptation was sped up.

For those talking of silly things like mosquitoes and viruses, you are either joking, or are foolish, speaking from bias, and not to be taken seriously.

For those who argue about the number of people contemplating building the tower post-flood period, read the bible. Your answer is there. If you still don't see it, come back here and we'll show you.


And for the interest of people who are confused on me using speciation and adaptation, thinking I support evolution, this just shows that I and other people like OLA, who do not agree completely with the theory, have been dismissed and analysed with intense bias and dogmatic hypocrisy, since you ask us such questions. It means you have been angry with us, and arguing with us about our non-acceptance of the theory, without even caring to understand our basic positions.

I believe in Speciation. It has been proved. It is scientific.
I believe in adaptation, it is a cause of speciation, and a common part of our everyday life.
I do not believe in speculative change above the level of speciation, change of kind. Nullifying common descent of all kinds from a common ancestor. It cannot be proved scientifically, and it is a preposterous and foolish guess, a self-destructive speculation that makes men more confused.
So I believe in speciation, and adaptation. If these changes(they are) that occur when organisms change to survive better in their environments are the basic definition of evolution, then I am an ardent evolutionist, and the bible is too.
But the speculation of change above the kind level is utter foolishness and is not even to be discussed. And if this unscientific propositions are what evolution is now defined as, then count me out of this foolishness.

Thank you and God bless.

Speciation and adaptation are part of evolution, you can not seperate them, so what exactly are you saying?. . .

Hate to cut in this interesting debate but you know the jewish writers copied the story of Noah's ark from a babylonian myth right?
Babylonian Flood Myth
Sumerian Flood Myth
The gods, angered at humankind, decide to destroy them with a flood. The god Enki, disagreeing with this decision, instructs a worthy man named Ziusudra to build a great boat in which to save himself, his family, and a few other people, as well as all animals. This myth dates from about the third millenium B.C.E.
Babylonian Flood Myth
The Gilgamesh epic contains a similar story (see Sumerian Flood Myth above), and it seems likely that this myth is based upon the Sumerian one. In the Babylonian myth the story is essentially the same as the Sumerian, but the names have been changed. Ziusudra (the Sumerian) is now Utnapishtim and Enki (the Sumerian god) is now Ea. This Babylonian myth seems very definitely to be the source of the biblical flood featuring Noah.
http://www.languages.uncc.edu/dagrote/courses/rels/pages/world_myths.htm#babylonflod

It is pretty pointless to argue about a myth. I mean the more you look the less you see.

OLAADEGBU: Cosmo Vern said: "I'd like to point out, in addition to my earlier reply, that only one of two scenarios could have allowed 3.6 million animals (1.8 million species, in pairs) and 8 humans to fit on the ark. 1. God shrank the animals so they'd all fit. 2. Noah was a Time Lord and the ark was a TARDIS."

Response:

There's one more scenario you haven't considered. See if you can spot the repetition of a particular word that skeptics dislike:

"Of the birds after their kind, of animals after their kind, and of every creeping thing of the earth after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive" (Genesis 6:20).

That's right, it's the dreaded word "kind"—that archaic word that the dictionary defines as "a class or group of individual objects, people, animals, etc., of the same nature or character, or classified together because they have traits in common." It's a despised word because it means God didn't have to get today’s approximately 6.5 million species to fit onto the ark. It means Noah needed only one pair for the canine kind—from which would come all the species of dog, from the Chihuahua to the Great Dane—and one pair for the feline kind—from which would come the domesticated cat and the tiger, etc. So now we are talking just thousands of animals, not millions. And because these animals need not have been fully grown (averaging the size of a sheep), it becomes possible.

Another consideration is the size of the ark. It wasn't the little rubber-ducky-bobbing-boat portrayed in kid's cartoons. It was a massive three-level ship, the size of one and a half football fields.

OLAADEGBU:

This response settles all the agitation and objections of the skeptics if they are to be honest.

Evil Brain:

Are you now actually trying to use evolution and speciation to explain the ark? So now you believe in evolution abi? If I were you, I'd keep that can of worms closed. If we agree that evolution is real, then Genesis has far bigger problems than the ark story.

Olaadegbu, youve been owned and served by a pastafarian!

Explain how two lions would of their own produce the house cat, the mountain lion, the leopard, the tiger, the jaguar etc

Or you can explain how two insects would produce the diverse species of insects that abound today.

How about the mammals bro? I guess he didnt carry any along with him because humans are mammals. All this while evolutionists have been saying that we humans are descended/have common ancestry from/with apes and Olaadegbu knew all the while that he and his "kind" gave birth to apes (and every other mammal). Follow up question. If your evolution is true, why dont we see humans giving birth to different mammals? Oh wait, I seem to recall different stories in the news about humans giving birth to all manner of things. Praise god!

Now where is that evolution vs god video again

jayriginal:
Olaadegbu, youve been owned and served by a pastafarian!
Explain how two lions would of their own produce the house cat, the mountain lion, the leopard, the tiger, the jaguar etc
Or you can explain how two insects would produce the diverse species of insects that abound today.
How about the mammals bro? I guess he didnt carry any along with him because humans are mammals. All this while evolutionists have been saying that we humans are descended/have common ancestry from/with apes and Olaadegbu knew all the while that he and his "kind" gave birth to apes (and every other mammal). Follow up question. If your evolution is true, why dont we see humans giving birth to different mammals? Oh wait, I seem to recall different stories in the news about humans giving birth to all manner of things. Praise god!
Now where is that evolution vs god video again

I just tire for the jargon wey Oladegbuu just dey write. . .

mazaje:


I just tire for the jargon wey Oladegbuu just dey write. . .

Bro see me, see wahala oh.

Evolution is false except when they want to use it for their purposes.

Some people are funny.