raumdeuter:


Unless I have health issues or some other extra ordinary condition, I would try to always provide the basic for myself and my kids, Its always deflating for an adult not to be able to take care of himself or herself even as a 22yr old University student having to ask your parents and you're getting lectures on this and that

Most men dont have a problem with women making morebecause all over the world we see men sacrificing to elevate the finances of their wifes, the Ibo man in Alaba sending his girlfriend to University, the man who sends his wife to nursing school etc

Its the behavior post success that is usually the issue

raumdeuter:


Because many women dont know how to manage success. And its in most womens nature to try to go the extra mile to assert their authority even when no one is challenging them

Thats why MIL vs wife issues are more common compared to husband vs FIL, Madam vs Housegirl compared to Oga vs driver.

The moment most women become breadwinners thats when they start reminding the husband who pays the bills every other day something overwhelming majority of men do without complaining

Whatever you achieve in your career, Its stops outside the door of the house, when you get home, you are expected to be Mrs and Mommy not Minister of Finance or Professor of Pharmacy

Kimoni:


Edwife, this your response is making me suspect you oo cuz it's very familiar. I'll watch out for you henceforth in our ....

Back to topic - how is a woman supposed to behave after her new found wealth/fame? Should she turn to a dummy in the house? Suppress her voice and her rights just so it won't appear she is taunting her husband with her wealth? What is the expectation exactly?

crackhaus:

@ Kimoni, lol.. Here goes.

I have no problem being with a woman who becomes more successful than I am, I really don't - I love me some independent ambitious woman, not leeches...and this is not because I need her money for myself, but because I would respect her more.

Now herein lies the problem, and if you're being honest you would admit it unless you haven't seen it firsthand but I have.
As you know, women by default want to be pampered and cared for...one way y'all measure how well you're being catered for is by how well your men give treats, gifts, and basically surprise y'all (physical well being and all).
It is your natural state to want to look up to your spouses in almost every way - intellectually, physically, financially, etc.

It isn't uncommon meeting women who don't change when they start earning more, but it's much more common meeting those who do.
And the reason for this, is basic..they suddenly are not looking up to their man financially and possibly intellectually - since a woman's measure of a man's intellect goes hand in hand with how much money he has.
The average woman as a result of this will start to feel like well since this man used to be the one getting the most cheddar and getting all the respect for it, perhaps it's time I start getting more respect around here for earning more than he does... And then before you know it, she's raising her voice over little disagreements and behaving in ways that start to seem different.

I know it's possible that the man is overthinking and feeling insecure, but that's what most women still don't understand. Almost everyman in that situation will start to feel a little insecure because in our minds, our natural instinct is to be the sole provider and protector over our women.

So kimoni, NO my manhood won't be taken away from me neither will I become suicidal if my wife becomes more successful than I am...but then again, I'm not every man and can't speak for them all.

Timbuktou:


To the contrary, that is a natural female response in such situations. Billions of men have had to come to terms with that the hard way. Women who know and would do better are in the extreme minority.

Interestingly, men and women seem to require different things from each other, and seem equipped to fulfil different desires in the opposite gender. A man isn't designed to wait on his partner yet he craves to be waited on. If a man is not lazy but has financial problems, the last thing a woman wants to do is carelessly reminds him he's not performing his roles. Many women have learned, to their chagrin, the folly of taking that path. Black America is a perfect example.
Poverty is akin to incapacity and mocking a man for his lowly station is as sinning against the Holy Spirit, unforgivable. Noone makes fun of the disabled. There is no time a man is more vulnerable than when he considers himself a failure or inferior. He must be handled with the utmost care.

A breadwinning, successful woman will be happy when she knows how to handle her poor husband. He would do all the things she wants if she remembers her place as wife and his as husband.

Kimoni:


Edwife, this your response is making me suspect you oo cuz it's very familiar. I'll watch out for you henceforth in our ....

Back to topic - how is a woman supposed to behave after her new found wealth/fame? Should she turn to a dummy in the house? Suppress her voice and her rights just so it won't appear she is taunting her husband with her wealth? What is the expectation exactly?

crackhaus:

Nice...

Kimoni:
I still want to hear specific post-wealthy behaviours you guys are talking about.
You say she starts to assert her position constantly without being challenged? Hahahaha I don't buy this Dayo. Something must have triggered it.
Example - she comes back from work fagged out yet she still has to go to the kitchen to prepare the family meal. Hubby cannot do that just because he isn't working at the moment. That would probably kill his ego totally so the woman still cooks. No wahala.
She goes into the kitchen only to behold a most untidy kitchen and she asked Leboo why he hasn't washed his dirty plates and that of the kids since he has been home all day. Big error! Hell is let loose on why she dares to ask him to wash plates. Her career and family is taken to the cleaners. She is reminded of how she was nothing during their early years and how her wealth has turned her into a peacock. Infact, she has just defalted his ego and her whole family must hear.
Biko, on top wetin? Just because she asked him why he didn't make an effort to clean up the kitchen
Dayo, is this an example of a proud female breadwinner?

edwife:

Many women feel that in order to lead they have to be controlling and, very strict in order to earn respect unlike the male folks. They develop a masculine approach and fail to understand that when it comes to home front, they are wives, partners and not bosses.

Kimoni:




Guys, see the bolded is where the problem lies. The woman has little or nothing do with his issues in most cases.
It's the man's internal insecurities that is the real culprit and not anything that the woman says or do. Infact, during his low times, I doubt if she can say or do anything right with him. Hence, it's the man's total responsibility to fight off his demons without pushing that duty to his wife because as it is, she is overburdened already with the double load she is carrying.

Tim, again, I ask, how does she treat him with extra care during this period? Should she become a complete dummy for peace to reign? I see that you underline "must" meaning it's a task she must perform for her marriage to survive. But is that fair on her? If he should have a melt-down, would it be the fault of the man that could not curtail his demons or the woman that did not perform up to expectation?

**I am not in any way saying a woman should not be supportive during her husband's trying times ooooooooooo

raumdeuter:


Very wel said edwife.

I just quoted this part. Because its what I said earlier, it happens when you have female bosses at work they atimes try too much to prove they are strict. While male bosses for most part are cool

Take a sample opinion most men and women prefer a male boss over a female. I once had a female team lead one of our team members was feeling sickly going to the bathroom several times, Next thing she shouted on her "Are you the first woman to have a period" that was how everyone on the team knew what the problem was. A man would never do that. He would just look away

Kimoni:


I don't think that any woman, sorry, sane woman will naturally start to disrespect her husband just because she is wealthier.

We advise women to pamper their hubbies when they get back from work, feed them, massage them etc so why isn't a man expected to perform these same functions when the woman is the breadwinner? Instead, she is expected to perform his roles, her roles and also go the extra mile not to make him feel she is performing his roles and hell is let lose when she seems to be failing in any of these. Sounds crazy to me...

It's looking like a lose-lose situation for a successful married woman.

edwife:

Suspect me for what? Lol @ watching out.
Many women still want to feel their husbands are the main providers- not to feel they are totally dependant on them. Unfortunately, resentment tends to fester below, which can eat away the relationship.
Each situation is different, so it’s hard to generalize, and I am glad there are women making more than men- my point is when the rift is too big…
There should be Respect and mutual consideration in JOINT decision-making, irrespective of who bring the cheddars home.
Sexuality is based on respect, admiration and desire, it becomes a problem to some women when a man seems like a child, and it’s not that attractive.
According to psychologists (and divorce lawyers) who see couples struggling with such changes, many relationships follow the same pattern. First, the wife starts to lose respect for her husband, then he begins to feel emasculated, and then sex dwindles to a full stop.
Do women turn to dummies when their husbands are successful?Do they suppress their voice or their rights? It is highly exaggerated especially here on NL. How many women can attest that they play both roles? Many successful women I know always talk about one thing, food and sex. Their husbands want their food cooked by their wives, and I see nothing wrong with this.
I am not saying you should cook after a long day at work but if I know my husband only eats my food and it was no problem for me cooking his meals prior my "success", I can easily find a way of cooking during weekends and storing it in the freezer. I don’t see a man coming back from work and finds his house clean, clothes washed and worry about who did the cleaning. Some women feel that her success in earning more than her husband as a scale to make her the head of the family. You and I know that gender roles in the society and in traditional marriage, the man is seen as a bread-winner and the woman as a housekeeper. Even though as time evolves and women are becoming achievers, I don’t think it should change their roles as wife, care givers and mothers.
True story, a family friend’s wife who happens to be a bank manager, one day during a heated argument- told him that does he expect her a bank manager to come back from work and cook for him? Does he know the calibre of people she meets and interacts with everyday at work? The calibre of People that respect her and address her with utmost regard? Just because the poor man asked her to make something to eat for them, and not that he has been home either. What happens to just saying, I am very tired baby, can we order? How many men will start reading their cvs to their wives when they don’t meet dinner? The least that can happen is that man asking her what did she do the whole day? Or call her lazy.
Many women feel that in order to lead they have to be controlling and, very strict in order to earn respect unlike the male folks. They develop a masculine approach and fail to understand that when it comes to home front, they are wives, partners and not bosses.

A40:
When it comes to these kind of stuff I just think you need to see yourselves as a team. There are no I's or egos involved. Everybody play your role. So if you are a man that is home all day while your wife is at work please enter kitchen and cook for both of you. You won't die I promise you

As a woman the truth is no matter how rich you are the man is still your Ade ori.

People don't really understand that for better for worse thing. Me self never understand am finish na why I never marry

These ego-trips and quarrels are usually as a result of either one or both parties not playing their role. There are many homes where the woman is the breadwinner and everything odinma.

I do think as the man though you have to provide the minimum or at least hold your side no matter what. Even Dangote's daughter would respect you when you do that

Everything still boils down to seeing each other as a teammate. When you see each other that way you just do stuff without being prompted either as man or a woman

For me if I don't have a job and I am not incapacitated by other factors, I wont mind travelling to another place to find one that can at least feed me and give my kids the basic.

Kimoni:


The bolded got me reeling with laughter...my bro, abeg, if you don ready to marry, just go and marry o because you will never understand this marriage thing finish. It's a school one never graduates from. Just find one good girl and marry am abeg.

Kimoni:
Raumdeter, this part too got me in stitches too Are you saying you cannot be a househorseband?? You are old school meeehnnn. In this days of gender equality and "anybody can play any role", you are still talking like this #oldskool ni yin sir
Meanwhile, I noticed you said "feeding me and my kids" earlier and I thought it was a typo; now, you have repeated it. Your wife nko? Isn't she your responsibility again? Just because she is working? For me o, as long as we live in the same house, you must feed me too. Your money is my money

Will respond on serious points shortly.

Good morning guys
Edwife

A40:
People don't really understand that for better for worse thing. Me self never understand am finish na why I never marry

Kimoni:
Raumdeuter, this part too got me in stitches too Are you saying you cannot be a househorseband?? You are old school meeehnnn. In this days of gender equality and "anybody can play any role"

A woman desires to "look up" to her man. It can some up in many different ways, looks, money, academic achievement, corporate status etc., but on whole it must be higher. Only socialised women - as noted - can maintain if the mans status is in some ways impaired.

edwife:


Suspect me for what? Lol @ watching out.

Many women still want to feel their husbands are the main providers- not to feel they are totally dependant on them. Unfortunately, resentment tends to fester below, which can eat away the relationship.
Each situation is different, so it’s hard to generalize, and I am glad there are women making more than men- my point is when the rift is too big…

There should be Respect and mutual consideration in JOINT decision-making, irrespective of who bring the cheddars home.
Sexuality is based on respect, admiration and desire, it becomes a problem to some women when a man seems like a child, and it’s not that attractive.
According to psychologists (and divorce lawyers) who see couples struggling with such changes, many relationships follow the same pattern. First, the wife starts to lose respect for her husband, then he begins to feel emasculated, and then sex dwindles to a full stop.

Do women turn to dummies when their husbands are successful?Do they suppress their voice or their rights? It is highly exaggerated especially here on NL. How many women can attest that they play both roles? Many successful women I know always talk about one thing, food and sex. Their husbands want their food cooked by their wives, and I see nothing wrong with this.

I am not saying you should cook after a long day at work but if I know my husband only eats my food and it was no problem for me cooking his meals prior my "success", I can easily find a way of cooking during weekends and storing it in the freezer. I don’t see a man coming back from work and finds his house clean, clothes washed and worry about who did the cleaning. Some women feel that her success in earning more than her husband as a scale to make her the head of the family. You and I know that gender roles in the society and in traditional marriage, the man is seen as a bread-winner and the woman as a housekeeper. Even though as time evolves and women are becoming achievers, I don’t think it should change their roles as wife, care givers and mothers.

True story, a family friend’s wife who happens to be a bank manager, one day during a heated argument- told him that does he expect her a bank manager to come back from work and cook for him? Does he know the calibre of people she meets and interacts with everyday at work? The calibre of People that respect her and address her with utmost regard? Just because the poor man asked her to make something to eat for them, and not that he has been home either. What happens to just saying, I am very tired baby, can we order? How many men will start reading their cvs to their wives when they don’t meet dinner? The least that can happen is that man asking her what did she do the whole day? Or call her lazy.

Many women feel that in order to lead they have to be controlling and, very strict in order to earn respect unlike the male folks. They develop a masculine approach and fail to understand that when it comes to home front, they are wives, partners and not bosses.

Kimoni:


TV01, who is a socialized woman?

[size=3pt]How's madam and the kids? Were you making babies? the last card maybe?
[/size]

raumdeuter:


A man who doesn't have a job most time would have no problem cooking and cleaning when the wife is not around, but on days he doesn't the wife chastise him why he hasn't done it, that's a slight. Nigerian women in most cases would want to rub it in. Or tell him the effort he made isn't enough

In the African American community its more common to have a woman make more money and the man doing the little stuff at home but whenever the feminine need to assert her authority arises then it becomes problematic

You have to realize we are going against the natural dictate of man providing and woman home making here so natural adjustments are still in place

For me if I don't have a job and I am not incapacitated by other factors, I wont mind travelling to another place to find one that can at least feed me and give my kids the basic.

Kimoni:


"...going against the natural dictate of man providing..."

I boldly reiterate that this is really the issue when a woman becomes the provider or has the upper hand in a marriage setting. It's against the natural order of a man and rather than adjust their mindset or work on the insecurities arising from this reversal of roles, the blame goes to the woman.

crackhaus:

It's easy for you to use that line about insecurity as a cop out, but hey come on now...the man's insecurity is auto response - same way a woman would feel insecure when her husband suddenly stops complimenting her looks, her cooking, and staying out later than usual.

Once that insecurity is there, no matter how little, any slight change that further heightens that insecurity causes the demons to really manifest.
In the case of a woman earning more, it would be her new found attitude...and in the case of a man coming home later than usual, it will be his discussion about a certain new hardworking female colleague at work.

The insecurity is not the problem, everyone will be faced with insecurity at a point in their relationship/marriage. It's what the other spouse further says/does that will compound that insecurity.

Women equate financial standing in a man to power - ergo, the more money a man has, the more powerful a woman sees him and consequently the more respect she has for him by default. Whether this man is her husband, brother, or uncle doesn't really matter.
When a man's financial standing starts on the downward spiral, his percieved power also begins to nose dive ....from here onwards, it will take only a God-fearing down-to-earth wife who has her act in order to keep her husband on exactly the same level he's always been in her mind.



**I too am not saying all women change when they start earning more oooooooo, I'm just saying that most of y'all start to feel like the one with all the power.

raumdeuter:


When it goes against the natural order, the woman usually reacts and tries too hard to exert her new found authority

I am sure the majority of houses the women ask for soup money daily the man doesnt try extra ordinarily to show who is boss.

Just like in instances of female bosses. Ask around about opinions on female bosses either from men or women

TV01:

In a sense, every one is socialised in some way. Here, I essentially meant it to mean one that has inculcated deeply held cultural or religious ideals about traditional marriage. Hence, likely to work through or endure disgruntlement.

It's fast fading, hence terms like; "who wan suffer", which is just an easy out.

"Last card" . My MIL uses that term. I always wonder where she got it from. No, thank you for asking. Wifey says we are done . Just pursuing some other things and taking my annual "sabbatical".


TV

Kimoni:


And I perfectly agree with you. Only deeply cultural or deeply religious would cut but should it be so?

I know of someone in this position who I am quite close to. She has tamed herself not to ever argue with the hubby. Even when he is clearly wrong and she is right, once he insist, she agrees with him until the result from the action shows who is right or wrong.

I don't know how she worked herself to that state but like she said, she does that for peace to reign. If that's the formula that is keeping her home, so be it but the summary of it all is that, men also need to check their thought process when they find themselves in situations like this. As much as the woman is advised to be in her most humble state with the man during this period, the man also needs to put himself together and stop attaching unecessary drama to every word and action from his woman. And yes, a man should provide for his family, at least the most basic needs. No reversal of roles for moi as long as the marriage is still intact.

Kimoni:


Again, I think this assertion of authority is really not as rampant as we are making it look. Every queen prefers a King.

I have had female and male bosses. Which do I prefer? Maybe male bosses but my best boss to date remains a woman. For me, the female bosses were just too melodramatic and tend to react with more with emotions rather than logic. I couldn't deal

Kimoni:


Edwife, first I agree that some women tend to become overbearing when they are in charge of providing for their families but I would say this is an exception and not the norm. Instead, I think it has become the easy way out for a lot of men who find themselves in such positions i.e. having the woman provide for the family to quickly point fingers at the woman as being the architect of every issue arising in the home without taking any responsibility themselves. Almost every woman in this situation is considered proud. How true can this be?

Looking at the one of your examples - a man who wants to eat his wife's meal at all times is not asking for anything bad, I'll even regard it as a complement. However, reality must stand. Did he get married to a wife who would always available to prepare his meals or he got married to a full time business executive who has to travel upandan the globe or probably to a superstar songstress who has to travel for shows and album promotion? If he got married to any of the latter and knew what he was getting into before marriage, would it be fair to start blaming the lady that she's never around to cook? Especially when she is feeding the family with the earnings from this same career? Can a man eat his cake and have it?

TV01:

The women is adopting exaggerated coping behaviour. I don't agree with that. But more so, I don't agree with her husbands demeanour.
To me the issue is not marriage, it's them. Let me explain. She should by all means work through this with hubby, and offer her full support, but not compromise herself to make him feel better. Or, let him wallow in the situation
I would say his character was always wrong for marriage, but the situation is just exacerbating things. If he was indeed mature and a good husband prior to the change in circumstances, he wouldn't change, even though the situation has. And he wouldn't take his frustrations out on her. He would maintain character and seek to restore his status - with her support.
They are both feeding a bad situation. She may be socialised right, bless her, but she's managing it wrong.
About role reversal; roles can overlap, but responsibility and requirements will always be in sight. I do tons around the house (but strengths are different). And while doing housework endears me to my wife, it's a bonus, not a core requirement. It's why I laugh at all the braying "if I contribute money, he must do housework" sayers.
I am yet to hear a woman list housework amongst the attributes of her ideal man. Did I see a thread about rejecting a man who can't cook? Laughable. Which woman will truly say that all other attributes being in place, that will be a deal-breaker? But I'll tell you this, a man that can cook and clean to olympic level without "breaking-even" in res&req is on shakey ground.
TV

edwife:


I watched tiwa's interview and to tell you the truth, i feel for her, however I don't exactly know what happened as none of us live with them.

[size=4pt]*Time to search for my dictionary*[/size]