Who was residing on that piece of land before the arabs??How about u go back and check your history books

According to my history books, the Israelites themselves are descendants of Arabs. Are they not?

@Seun,

Delete whatever you wish to delete from the copied post but leave the content intact so that we can get a feel of the issues of who owns what land.

I have tried to remove the names and links so I guess it's ok.

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ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« on: July 31, 2006, 07:29:31 PM »  

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I initiated this thread because of the necessity to give a comprehensive look to the issue of Israel's legitimate claim to the land in palestine. ATTENTION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE EVENTS,FACTS AND DATES PRESENTED ON THIS ISSUE.



Historical ,archaeological ,cultural and other numerous ties show that Israel as a nation existed with the capital at JERUSALEM . The  DAVID and SOLOMONIC kingdoms, JUDEA and SAMARIA  attests to this fact. The land of Israel was situated in a location also known as caanan.


PALESTINE: There is no particular nation ,culture or civilization called PALESTINE. The term palestine was a name that was later given to a particular geographical location in the middle east for  the purpose of administration and governance at different times and by different administrators.

The Origin/Root  Of The Word Palestine: From the hebrew word "peleshet" root{palash} meaning rolling or migratory or invaders,it is translated in English as PHILISTINE, the jews referred to philistines as invaders. Philistines  are mediterrenean people  originating form Asia Minor{Greeks}. They mgrated to the middle -east , after their failed bid to invade egypt ,they set up settlement to the south of israel that is GAZA,GAT,ASHKELON,EKON etc and they became ARCH ENEMY of Israel. Philistines were NOT Arabs. Philistine have since become extinct. Goliath was a famous philistine, but he was certainly NOT Arab.However the grecko-romans pronounce philistine{palash} as "PALASTINA" . The arabs pronounce  the word palastina as  "FALASTIN" . Hence  the word  PALESTINE.  However  before the arabs  adopted the name  palestine  AFTER 1967, Palestine was also used to refer to the jews.  The land of Israel was also known as the land of PALESTINE.


HOW ISRAEL BECAME  "PALESTINE": In the 1st century , around AD 70 the independent kingdom of Israel/judea was crushed by the ROMANS. Jerusalem was destroyed. After the rebellion of BER KOKHBA in the 2nd century ,the Roman Emperor HADRIAN determined to wipe out the identity of Israel. He took the name of Israel's arch enemy PHILISTINE[PALASTINA/PALESTINE] AND IMPOSED it on the land of Israel.  The land of Israel became known as PALESTINE and the emperor also changed the name of JERUSALEM  to AELIA CAPITOLINA.

Despite these invasions and persecution  some Jews still REMAIN in the land of Israel{palestine}. Despite those that scattered, Jews never ceased to exist or live in the land of palestine.

Also note that these events PRECEDES ISLAM OR ARAB/MUSLIM INVASION. This further exposed the ARAB PROPAGANDA THAT ARABS WERE DISPLACED FROM PALESTINE AND  THAT JEWS WERE "IMPORTED" INTO PALESTINE  IN 1948 TO OCCUPY THEIR LAND.


Let us continue to consider the events that occured PRIOR and TOWARDS  1948. That is pre-1948.


After the Roman conquest of Israel/judea{palestine}. Palestine became a province of pagan ROMAN EMPIRE. The CHRISTIAN BYZANTINE EMPIRE took over , then briefly ZOROASTRIAN PERSIAN EMPIRE.  With the advent of ISLAM,  The ARAB-MUSLIM CALIPH  in 638 AD took PALESTINE{PALASTINA}  away from the BYZANTINE EMPIRE  and made it part of an ARAB-MUSLIM  EMPIRE . Mixed population converted to Islam and adopted Arabic Language,subject to a distant caliphate who ruled from his capital first in damascus and later in baghdad. IN 1099,CHRISTIAN CRUSADERS from europe conquered PALESTINE. After 1099, it  was never  under Arab rule. Christian crusaders controlled palestine for less than 100 years. THEREAFTER  palestine was joined to syria as a subject province to the MAMELUKS{ethnically mixed slave-warriors whose center was in egypt} and then the OTTOMAN TURKS.  The OTTOMAN EMPIRE with the capital at ISTANBUL took control of  Palestiine UNTIL  the first world war. During the 1st world war the ottoman turks supported Germany, with the defeat of germany in the 1st world war, the ottoman empire crumbled.

Even with the ottoman rule, apart from those scattered in diaspora there were still sizable population of jews{different numbers at different times} in Israel {palestine}. At this period even those in diaspora have started to come back to JOIN those who are STILL in Israel. This was called  ZION MOVEMENT [ZIONISM}.  There was NEVER a time the jews ceased to exist/live in palestine.


After the 1st world war,the LEAGUE OF NATIONS  gave Britain the temporary  mandate to govern PALESTINE. The French was mandated to govern lebanon and syria.

The temporary mandate the league of nations gave to Britain to govern Palestine is also known as BRITISH MANDATE. During the british mandate ,there  were growing agitation to set up a home grown rule  for and by the mixed population in the palestine. THE BALFOUR DECLARATION  OF 1917 gave the parameters  to be used for dividing and establishing ARAB AND JEWISH STATES in palestine. The arabs were to take the land  EAST OF THE JORDAN RIVER. While the jews were to take the land WEST OF THE JORDAN RIVER. However the british did not implement this properly. There were some aberrations.

Due to the oil that were  being discovered  in the middle east, the british  tilted more in favour of the arabs. BRISTISH PROTEGE-Emir Abdullah form ARABIA[SAUDI ARABIA] was forced to leave the ancestral HASHEMITE domain in saudi arabia, the biritish created a realm for him that includes all of mandate palestine EAST OF THE JORDAN RIVER.  They called it TRANS-JORDAN which was later shortended in 1946 to JORDAN ,after the arabs due to greed crossed over the jordan river to the west{the jewish sector of palestine} and took some land that is known today as "west bank"{which is actually  judea/samaria} . NOTE : The word JORDAN is not ARABIC.

1948,

As the british mandate was drawing to an end in 1948, the jews declared  the establishment of the state of Israel. THE FORMAL DECLARATION of the state of Israel in May 1948 was recognized by the LEAGUE OF NATIONS and subsequently the UNITED NATIONS. The day following the declaration of the state of Israel. THE ARABS INITIATED AND ATTACKED ISRAEL FROM ALL SIDES. The arabs attacked and invaded Israel. EGYPT OCCUPIED GAZA. JORDAN OCCUPIED WEST BANK{judea/samaria} AND JERUSALEM.

Hence the Arabs occupied   GAZA, WEST BANK AND JERUSALEM from 1948 to 1967.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: This really exposes the ARAB HYPOCRISY and PROPAGANDA. Since the arabs were controlling and occupied  gaza, west bank and even jerusalem from 1948-1967, WHY DIDN'T THEY ESTABLISH  THE SO-CALLED PALESTINIAN STATE? because there was nothing like "palestinian people"  The people who call themselve palestinians today are ACTUALLY arabs from Egypt, jordan,syria, lebanon and iraqis. THE P.L.O was established in 1964. Note carefully in 1964, arabs were still in controll of gaza,westbank and jerusalem. SO WHY DID THEY FORM P.L.O? it was to wipe out Israel entirely from the middle east in order to ensure arab EXPANSIONISM  and IRREDENTISM. P.L.O founder Yasser Arafat is EGYPTIAN, but all of a sudden after 1967 , he started claiming to be "palestinian"

This is a quote from P.L.O executive member ZAHIR -MUSHEIN in an interview granted to the dutch newspaper "TRAU" March 31,1977.

"The palestinian people does not exist, the creation of a palestinian state is only a means for continuing  our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between jordan,palestine,syrians and lebanese.Only for a political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a  plalestinian people,since arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'palestinian people' to oppose zionism.  It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "palestinian" which has been transfered to the Arabs whereas before 1967,"palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the land of Israel"




With the formation of P.L.O  and due to the greed of the arabs, IN 1967, the arabs  INITIATED and ATTACKED  Israel  in order to wipe them out completely. The Arabs LOST. Israel regained west bank and jerusalem. They took gaza and other territories. This war lasted for about six days. It is often refered to as the 6 day war.

Israel  has given back GAZA  and are still in negotiations with regards to concessions in the disputed west bank{judea/samaria} for the sake of peace. HOWEVER the arabs have never been consistent with  the peace initiatives , rather  ARABS CONTINUE TO EMPLOY ALL TACTICS INCLUDING  EXTREME ISLAM/ISLAMIC TERRORISM IN ORDER TO DERAIL ANY PEACE PROCESS. The Arabs still want to annihilate ISRAEL.


I will stop so far. However any issue/matters  arising or related to this , will continue to be discussed. HAVING SAID THAT LET US CONSIDER OTHER INSTANCES.


KORAN: The koran mentions Israel or Israelites 47 times, Jews or jewish 26 times, Christian 15 times. Koran mentions mecca{2 or 3 times implied} Medina {5 times}. HOWEVER  THE KORAN HAD NO MENTION OF PALESTINE. why? because there   is nothing like "palestinian" people.


JERUSALEM: The western wall is the remnant or the remaining  part of the destroyed jewish temple. The jews refer to this area  as TEMPLE MOUNT. However due to series of Arab-muslim invasions , the muslims built  two[2] mosques inside the temple mount, yes inside the temple mount in jerusalem. They called  one AL-AQSA mosque and they called the other one  DOME OF ROCK. Muslims claim that Mohammed went to Jerusalem  and ascended into  heaven form the DOME OF ROCK.  HOWEVER THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT MOHAMMED WENT TO JERUSALEM NOT TO TALK OF ASCENDING INTO HEAVEN FROM THE SO-CALLED DOME OF ROCK. The muslims call the temple mount jerusalem HARAM-ESH-SHARIF . GUESS WHAT? The KORAN NEVER MENTIONED  JERUSALEM OR HARAM-ESH-SHARIF.

So why are they claiming jerusalem? because of greed. JERUSALEM IS NOT AN ARABIC WORD. Jerusalem predates Islam. It is a fact that when the destroyed  jewish temple  was established ,there were no mosque inside or around it. ANOTHER ARAB PROPAGAND EXPOSED. Even muslims who pray in jerusalem  face meecah/medina which is about 2000 miles away from jerusalem.


ARABS have been known to be violent especially towards the jews. The hebron massacre of 1929 and the Arab revolt of 1936-39 attest to this fact.


LET PEACE PREVAIL.


                                                                                     
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE BUT WHAT MATTERS IS THE TRUTH IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE.



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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 11:09:22 AM »  

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This is why i join Forums, not to abuse or be abused, but to learn at the slightest opprotunity.

The historical facts you exposed in this thread, i already know some, but i have gathered more. thanks.

I guess that is why our elders have a saying that goes thus - " He who was not around when a dead body was buried, should not rush at digging it up, but ask questions first, lest you start from the wrong place"
In effect, let us not be carried away by our emotions and sentiments based on where we meet a situation, but try and get the root cause of events, before jumping into conclusions.

It has always been the ambition of the Arab world to wipe out Israel from the world map, so one can understand why Israel is doing all it can to keep her people alive.  

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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 11:49:46 AM »  

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The last statement in your post is enough reason for any sane person not to join issues with you as it is very clear that you have been thoroughly brainwashed into seeing the arabs or muslims as enemies regardless of what is happening on ground, real pity.



Events, facts and dates as preseneted by you is ok but would you believe anything that does not support your point of view even if it represents the truth?

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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 02:21:54 PM »  



Events, facts and dates as preseneted by you is ok but would you believe anything that does not support your point of view even if it represents the truth?




I will CERTAINLY believe anything that  represents the fact or truth  EVEN IF IT DOES NOT SUPPORT MY POSITION. However I will NOT be  COWED by propaganda or  give in to expansionism and irredentism of the  arabs.


Israel is not  handing over  "west bank"{judea/samaria} .But for the sake of PEACE, they are engaged in discussions for some concessions for the arabs in west bank.  Even with the balfour declaration. Arabs were supposed to maintain control of land ONLY east of jordan river. But they over reached into west bank of jordan. THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

During the arab occupation of jerusalem and west bank  from 1948-1967, why did arabs still attack Israel in  1967 even when they are ALREADY OCCUPYING jerusalem,west bank and gaza? DOES THAT RAISE A RED FLAG FOR YOU?

WEST BANK AND JERUSALEM DOES NOT BELONG TO THE ARABS. That  Israel is deliberating on concessions in west bank DOES not change that. They are doing that for the sake of peace? IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THE  ARABS  WANT PEACE.


I am not saying that  Israel should take over IRAQ,EGYPT OR JORDAN OR SYRIA. All I am saying is that Arabs and their supporters should LET ISRAEL BE.  Arabs already occupy over 90% of  the land in the middle east, they should hands off the  jewish land.





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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 03:12:44 PM »  

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I just couldn’t stop laughing while reading your twisted article, you too funny, damn too funny. You sound like an Islam phobia with an irrational fear or hatred for Muslims.
From where did you get this distorted thesis?. What kind of man are you- re-writing history with glaring lies…
Oh my God! If you are a Nigerian, time is coming when you will tell people that Nigeria belongs to the Jews…Chei!
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A complete distortion of facts, you said

Quote
Historical, archaeological, cultural and other numerous ties show that Israel as a nation existed with the capital at JERUSALEM. The  DAVID and SOLOMONIC kingdoms, JUDEA and SAMARIA  attests to this fact. The land of Israel was situated in a location also known as caanan.

Fact:
The [Jewish] migration [to Palestine] gained urgency as Hitler came to power, promulgated anti-Jewish laws in Germany in the 1930s, then rounded up Jews in Germany and in the expanding sphere of German-occupied countries, restricted them to ghettos, shot them, deported them to concentration camps, and exterminated an estimated 6 million of them in the cause of racial purity. Out of this Holocaust grew the international compassion for the purpose of a new Israel as a sanctuary for the Jews."
Jerusalem (called al-Quds in Arabic) is sacred to the three major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Judaism and Islam. As a result, it has been a focus of conflict for centuries.

Conquered by the Romans before Christ’s birth, it was in the hands of Byzantine rulers when it fell to a Muslim army led by Caliph Umar in 638. In 1071, the Seljuk Turks took control of
Jerusalem, and by cutting pilgrim routes from the West gave impetus to the First Crusade. This crusade brought Jerusalem under Western control in the "Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem," which held the city from 1099 to 1187, when Saladin reconquered Jerusalem for Islam. Later crusades brought Jerusalem briefly under Western control from 1229 to 1239, and from 1243 to 1244, when it was sacked by the Tatars. In 1247, the city fell to the Egyptian Mamluks, under whose control it remained until 1517, when Ottoman sultan Selim I conquered the city.

Jerusalem remained under Ottoman control for almost exactly four centuries. In 1917, during World War I, General Allenby and the British army defeated the Ottoman Turks and entered the city. In November of that year, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which declared Britain’s intent to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine, with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

In 1947, the United Nations partitioned Jerusalem and the city was divided between Arab and Jewish control. In May 1948, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion declared Israel an independent state. Israel successfully defended itself against the attack of the Arab League. During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel captured all of Jerusalem, putting it fully under Jewish rule for the first time since the Roman destruction in 70ad

Distortion of facts

Quote
PALESTINE: There is no particular nation ,culture or civilization called PALESTINE. The term palestine was a name that was later given to a particular geographical location in the middle east for the purpose of administration and governance at different times and by different administrators.
And contradictions:

Quote
HOW ISRAEL BECAME  "PALESTINE": In the 1st century , around AD 70 the independent kingdom of Israel/judea was crushed by the ROMANS. Jerusalem was destroyed. After the rebellion of BER KOKHBA in the 2nd century ,the Roman Emperor HADRIAN determined to wipe out the identity of Israel. He took the name of Israel's arch enemy PHILISTINE[PALASTINA/PALESTINE] AND IMPOSED it on the land of Israel.  The land of Israel became known as PALESTINE and the emperor also changed the name of JERUSALEM  to AELIA CAPITOLINA.
Facts:
To understand the present Middle East conflict, we need to understand the history of those in conflict—the Jews and the Arabs. Historians often note the "family" relationship between these two peoples; some call them "cousins" because both trace their roots to the great patriarch Abraham.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all honor Abraham as one of their patriarchs. Calling him "Religion’s Superstar," a Time magazine feature article asked: "Abraham changed history by espousing just one God, and is sacred to Muslims, Jews and Christians. Can this crossover biblical hero help heal the world?" (Sept. 30, 2002, p. 5).

The answer is: not in this age! But in tomorrow’s world, Abraham as "heir of the world" (Romans 4:13) under Jesus Christ, and as one of the saints in God’s kingdom, will help teach the way to peace when all nations will come to Jerusalem (see Isaiah 2:2–4).

In the 19th century bc, the Creator God began to work with Abraham (then called "Abram". God tested his faith many times, even promising him a son in his old age—a promise that seemed to be delayed. Abram’s wife Sarai, unable to bear children, encouraged Abram to have a child through her Egyptian handmaid, Hagar. Eighty-six years old when the child was born, Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son whom Hagar bore (Genesis 16:15–16). The majority of Arabs today trace their ancestry back to Ishmael and Abraham.
And Yes!
PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded in May 1964 with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.  There has been Arabs called Palestines.

You can read more on this on:  http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104355314s tines.

Concise Overview of Recent Israeli-Palestinian History

Nov 2, 1917 British issued the Balfour Declaration, viewed by Jews and Arabs as promising a “National Home” for the Jews in Palestine.

1936-1939   Arab Revolt led by Haj Amin Al-Husseini. Over 5,000 Arabs were killed according to some sources, mostly by British. Several hundred Jews were killed by Arabs. Husseini fled to Iraq and then to Nazi Germany.

May 15, 1948- Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began.

April 3, 1949- Armistice - Israel and Arab states agree to armistice. Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the UN Partition Plan.

Oct. 29, 1956- Suez Campaign. In retaliation for a series of escalating border raids as well as the closure of the straits of Tiran and Suez canal to Israeli shipping, and to prevent Egyptian use of newly acquired Soviet arms in a war, Israel invades the Sinai peninsula and occupies it for several months, with French and British collaboration.

May, 1964- PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.

May, 1967- Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser closes the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and dismisses UN peacekeeping force. Negotiations with US to reopen the Straits of Tiran fail.

June 5-10,1967- 6-day war . Israel destroys the Egyptian air force on the ground, conquers and occupies Sinai and Gaza, then conquers the West Bank from Jordan, and Golan Heights from Syria. UN resolution 242 called for  Israeli withdrawal, establishment of peace.

Oct. 6, 1973- Yom Kippur War (October War). In a surprise attack on the Jewish day of atonement, Egypt retook the Suez canal and a narrow zone on the other side. Syria reconquered the Golan Heights. Following massive US and Soviet resupplying of the sides, Israel succeeded in pushing back the Syrians and threatening Damascus. In Sinai, the IDF crossed the Suez Canal and cut off the Egyptian Third Army.

March 26, 1979- Peace treaty signed between Egypt and Israel.
Culled from Mideast web site

E.ben, my brother, please always supply us with the source of your article for us to verify.

Take care!


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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 04:18:35 PM »  

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Thanks for the chronological order you listed the major events.

I guess quoting the sources of dates stated will help clarify issues.

We will all benefit from the truth in my opinion regardless of who the truth does not favour.

I do not take time to read history unless information that is more or less common knowledge as the events happening in our lifetime is even enough for us to know when someone is doing a bad thing.

No one needs to read history to know that Bush and Blair lied through their teeth to wage an illegal war in Iraq, no one reads to read history to know that the killing of innocent ones by both Hezbollah and Israel in the current conflit is wrong as this is obvious.



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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 04:37:26 PM »  

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You did not DISPROVE anything I presented so far. PLEASE ALL AND SUNDRY  READ MY ARTICLE AND RE-READ THEM INCLUDING THE TYPOGRAPGICAL ERRORS AND YOU ALL WILL SEE THAT  I DID NOT DISTORT ANY FACTS.

Note carefully the events  pointed out by both my presentation and that of tunde's'.  If there is anything that tunde's' achieved, he ended up CORROBORATING the evidence presented in my article.  BUT NOTE HOWEVER THAT MR TUNDE AVOIDED SALIENT ISSUES. HE INFACT SIDE STEPPED THEM.  This is part of the arab propaganda.

1. The muslim -arab caliphate  took over in 638, for the FIRST time. QUESTION: Mr tunde, you did not tell us where the jews were? where they in the moon? Another question MR tunde, If the arab-muslims took over from the BYZANTINE, who were the  byzantine occupying and ruling? Is it the jews or not? Before the byzantines, who were the romans occupying, is it the jews or not? In what land did all this take place?  YOUR PROPAGANDA AND FALLACY CONTINUE TO BE EXPOSED?

2. You conveniently  avoided the issue of jerusalem. I AM NOT SURPRISED, YOU COULD NOT SPIN THAT. Everybody knows the history of islam , when it started and all that.

Mr tunde,  I do not want to be repeating  what I already wrote, read them again.


On the issue of Palestine, with reference to name, YES , I REPEAT THERE IS NO CULTURE, CIVILIZATION, NATION CALLED PALESTINE. There was NO CONTRADICTION in what I stated. I gave you the origin of the word and how Israel became known as "palsestine". It was first used by emperor HADRIAN to spite the jews, PALESTINE origianates from philistine, then grecko -romans pronounced it as palastina, then arabs pronouced  falastin then palestine.  IT WAS ALWAYS USED TO REFER TO THE  LAND OF ISRAEL.

question mr tunde:  Why didnt you tell us why the arabs all of a sudden started calling themselves "palestinians" only AFTER 1967.

You see mr tunde, another of your arab fallacy and propaganda exposed?

Let the quest for truth,fact and clarity continue.

I grow weary of you, little man. i really have no time for your childish games. Keep spewing your insults at me, i'm unfazed.
Perhaps i should feel honoured when you call me names like 'idiot' and 'slowpoke' consideing the fact that u're using the same words u use to address your parents, doubtlessly.
If you claim your insults are a direct response to mine, you'd notice that i apologized for ANY and ALL strong words i used a few posts down. If reading english is your problm, i can probably dig out an old copy of Queen Primer for you to peruse.
For the last time, do not seek me out, creepy-crawlie. I'm here to discuss my views ina logical manner, not to get caught up ina time wsting argument with a wastepipe like you.

Quote from: kaecy5 on Today at 04:30:38 AM

Ahahaha, this clown hasn't countered one fact I put up, not one, all you regress to is pathetic insults about how I address my parents, when you can actually respond to the arguments and facts I put up, respond, but obviously you cannot and just keep on going on the same rant and rehash you have done since this thread opened, I am done with your dumbass really, when someone puts up a valid argument this is your response

For the last time, do not seek me out, creepy-crawlie

ahahaha, great logical counter argument there buddy.

And someone like your dumbass shouldnt start any "pet projects" in Nigeria, you will just do more harm to the country. You obviously lack the basic mental faculties to accomplish anything productive in a simlpe discussion thread let alone a country, so its good you stopped trying while you where ahead.

Historical ,archaeological ,cultural and other numerous ties show that Israel as a nation existed with the capital at JERUSALEM . The DAVID and SOLOMONIC kingdoms, JUDEA and SAMARIA attests to this fact. The land of Israel was situated in a location also known as caanan.

Most of the Jews that are now resettling in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews (East Eureopean in origin, converted to Judaism in the 10th century during the Byzantine era, read the 13th Tribe for more info) of the not the Indegenous Jews of earlier times that are spread all around the middle east and actually are descendants of people of that time and makeup about 7-8% of the current Israeli state. Also no matter the descendant history of the region the fact is when the Jews resettled the area known as Israel there where people there, you have to make accomodations and do it peacefully. You cannot just force people out under seige it is illegal under International law and its just common sense morallity. If the Fulanis or Hausas got scripts and historical proof saying everywhere the Igbos and Yorubas currently reside was once their land and part of an ancient empire you think they would be justified in coming into our lands and squeezing us out and creating ghettos and concentration camps and squeezing millions of people into unhabitable and barren land. Bleep that, as a Yoruba man I would fight that expansion to the death. And I would be justified in doing so.

@Shango,

The seized lands that Hezbollah and Hamas are fighting for were seized by Israel in 1967, some have been reclaimed either by force or by unilateral handover. Also remember that Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 so yo need not bring in parameters that are not necessary here and tend to compare what is happening now to issues like the Hausas claiming Igbo land or Yoruba land, far from it.

The issues as at today refer to the seized lands by Israel from 1967 unless I am getting something wrong here.

Another way to look at it is this, both Hezbollah and Hamas came into being because they needed Israel to let go of lands they illegally and forcefully occupied. Hezbollah was formed after 1982 while Hamas was formed after the success recorded by Hezbollah in driving Israel out of Lebanon.

So, which comes first, the resistance groups or the forceful invasion and land seizures?

@texazzpete

I wasnt referring to Nigeria only, but to most if not all British colonies. You name them Nigeria, Kashmir, Iraq (They escaped without achieving), Israel/Palestine, zimbabwe, etc, etc, etc,

@seun

If you say the Arabs cannot claim that land because there were people living there before, please state who are those? You alsp state that you regards hezbollah as a terrorist organisation because of their sofisticated weapons. Now, firstly if Hezbolla had anything sofisticated apart from Katyusha rockets, I don't think Israel would have been there battling, there probably wont have been half of Israel left and secondly if because of their sofistcated weapons, there are terrorists, then my good friend, it seems we have a lot fo terrorist states in this world aside America and co.

I can see that nothing I say will convince you guys. Good luck. Bye.

I have just one question. Would it be ok for American Indians to rise up today to say they want to use force to drive out all the European and African immigrants that now regard themselves as Americans?

Failure to even attempt to answer this question shows that you are all hypocrites, and should be left alone.

seun please place a limit on the length of each post.

haba. abi na masters i come get for nairaland. see wetin afam post. it will take me i week to read.

And most of it is dribble.

@Seun,

This is where you are getting it wrong, you are not here to convince anyone, people should be presented with as much relevant information as possible and they should be allowed to make up their minds, you don't have to do so.

Your question does not hold water in the present issues with Israel because the lands in question were seized in 1967.

However, I will answer the question. If the native Americans wake up today and say they want their lands back, there is nothing wrong with that, infact it will be a good thing just as Mugabe is returning lands to their owners, just as Apartheid SA crumbled etc.

Whether or not the native Americans can succeed or not is another matter but in the action itself, there is nothing wrong in just, it is all about justice.

And, when people do not agree with you, it doesn't mean they automatically become hypocrites, it may mean that you are yet to see what they see based on objectivity and respect for truth.

@Toshmann,

If the post is too long, go and read other topics. I posted a link to the main website and it was removed by Seun so I had to post the main content.

@ Mariory,

Thanks for the comments. That may have been my intention anyway as I prefer you think through the posts, I am not here to spoonfeed you.

most of the anti-Isreal posts here have been made by those who know next to nothing about international politics. Someone said hizbollah was an army and that i should go watch their training videos. Soon someone will start calling alquaeda an army simply because they also have training videos. i cant remember the Nigerian army releasing training videos to prove it is an army.

It is futile to keep deflecting religion away from the present crisis because we all know deep down that this is less a war about land as it is a war about religious ideology. Isreal is up against those who think they do God a favor by wiping out all infidels from the surface of the earth and not really because they love their people.

@ Afam,

Stop posting innanities here. So because Isreal "siezed" land in 1967, it is absolutely right to drive them out and the USA is free to remain on native american lands simply because they happened to seize theirs more than 2 centuries before?

And please does it occur to you that the lands claimed to have been siezed by Isreal where Jewish lands well before Christ? Is your bible upside down or do you forget those who were living in bethlehem, jerusalem, hebron e.t.c where jews? Is the same not mentioned in the quran? So Isreal is wrong to reclaim the land from which they were driven out illegally centuries before?

Texazzpete ~ I am disappointed at you. Referencing Wikipedia? Anyone can go to Wikipedia and edit it. I shouldn't be surprised that you're quoting from your history notebook.

Have you ever heard of the Battle of Stalingrad and Battle of Kursk, the turning point of WW2? Those were the battles that destroyed the German Infantry and German tanks. Thus, breaking the back of the much vaunted German Military, the most powerful at the time. The Soviets paid a terrible price for the victory and always call WW2, a Great Patriotic War. America entered the war in 1944 after the decisive battle on the Eastern Front. The battle across the Mediterranean was not comparable to those on the Eastern Front. Italian army was a non-factor, a joke. You're comparing a child to an adult.

You were not aware of the defeat of the vaunted Japanese Kwantung Army at the Battle of Khalkin Gol in Inner Mongolia in 1939? It was a Pre-emptive move by the Soviets to avoid a Pincher. Google it for more info.

Much of the US equipments, as part of the lend-lease agreement, could not function due to the weather. In Winter, Russia is a forsaken place. Have you ever heard of General Winter? How many of the foreign equipments could function at -45^oC? The Germans learned in a hard way. And America was paid back, on the said equipments.

Historically, the Russians are revered in Mathematical Physics. Despite the Industrial base being destroyed, much of the brain was still intact. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they were able to build new Industrial cities across the Urals, detonated a nuclear bomb in 1949 and started the Space race with Sputnik in 1957 and Gagarin in 1961. Up till now, they're second to none in Nuclear Physics ~ fission, fussion, laser, quantum, and Exploration ~ Space, Polar, Sea/Ocean.

You never heard of the Korean war of 1950-53? No wonder you were not aware of the wanton destruction of the North. I can't blame you.

What led to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor? Here is the link for you:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/McCollum/

And what led to the Japanese surrender? Read along:

http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1297

Intellectually, you do not impress me at all. If you don't know about something, just remain passive and peruse the forum.

Davidylan,

Do not be in a hurry to reply as you may end up making very glaring mistakes.

I never implied even in the remotest sense not to talk of support the notion that it is ok for Americans to remain on native american soil. Re-read my post again before you start making claims that do not exist.

No, my bible is not upside down, only that I practice what I preach, I do not preach for others to follow. Maybe you need to read your bible well to understand that you must stand by the truth.

Unfortunately, many may be making the devil happy when they think they are actually fighting for good.

If Israel owns the land, why did it unilaterally release Gaza Strip and is also planning to release part of West Bank?

An answer to the question above will put the issues in the right perspective.

Afam:

Davidylan,

Do not be in a hurry to reply as you may end up making very glaring mistakes.

I never implied even in the remotest sense not to talk of support the notion that it is ok for Americans to remain on native american soil. Re-read my post again before you start making claims that do not exist.

No, my bible is not upside down, only that I practice what I preach, I do not preach for others to follow. Maybe you need to read your bible well to understand that you must stand by the truth.

Unfortunately, many may be making the devil happy when they think they are actually fighting for good.

If Israel owns the land, why did it unilaterally release Gaza Strip and is also planning to release part of West Bank?

An answer to the question above will put the issues in the right perspective.

1. You have said nothing.
2. Where are the glaring mistakes you so gleefully refer to?
3. What claims are you talking about here? Why are you suddenly evasive over your own statement now that you've been shown up for shallow thinking? In what way do you think it is NOT ok for the Americans to remain on native American lands? At least we know from history that the jews have been on their land 2000 yrs before Christ, they were driven out in AD70 by Titus invading army, now everyone thinks its a crime for them to reclaim that land! What hypocrisy!

If you truly practice what you preach i wonder what it is you are preaching about. Have you read your bible and seen the promises that God has made to his children the jews? Obviously you havent come across those parts of your bible, you'd do well to go read them.

Since most of you get your information from the little snippets of breaking news on CNN, it is no wonder everyone is slating Isreal for its bombing of Qana, few are aware that as at this morning, hizbollah has launched 100 rockets into northern Isreal alone. Of course since the jews dont portray their dead on international TV and aljazeera is not interested, no one is bothered.

Afam:

If Israel owns the land, why did it unilaterally release Gaza Strip and is also planning to release part of West Bank?

An answer to the question above will put the issues in the right perspective.

It did so in the interest of peace. However, as is the case with the other terrorist organisations in this region, Hamas simply moved the frontier closer, cumulating in them digging across the border and kidnapping the Isreali solder. Isreal's bombing of Lebanon has been discussed for some length here.

Let's discuss Hamas+other jihadist militants suicide bombing/rocket attacks on Isreal. As well as Hezbolla's continous rocket fire into Isreal for the past 6 years up until the thousands of rockets it has currently fired into Isreal. Let's discuss that.

A lot of people have ignorantly asked Isreal to leave the civilians alone and go after Hizbollah. Pray! How does Isreal go about doing that when terrorists dress like civillians, hide bombs in mosques and fire missiles from residential homes?

@ davidlyan,

so apart from dressing like civilians they also shape themselves as children abi?
Also you are confused when you say people are not using common sense in posting but religious bla bla,

@ All isreali and american supporters
WHO IS A TERORRIST?
Is it whoever has a different pinion militarily with the united states?Cos this terrorist ish is really getting compliated.WHat about hezbollah is terroristic?The fact that they are fighting for what rightly belongs to them?
Since when did we start talkin about land in terms of who lived on it when the world was created?If its so,then most of us wld have to vacate our countries to the orignal inhabitants.WHen we talk about rightful owner,we are talkin about the legal owners of the land in present day law.

kabiyesi:

Texazzpete ~ I am disappointed at you. Referencing Wikipedia? Anyone can go to Wikipedia and edit it. I shouldn't be surprised that you're quoting from your history notebook.

Have you ever heard of the Battle of Stalingrad and Battle of Kursk, the turning point of WW2? Those were the battles that destroyed the German Infantry and German tanks. Thus, breaking the back of the much vaunted German Military, the most powerful at the time. The Soviets paid a terrible price for the victory and always call WW2, a Great Patriotic War. America entered the war in 1944 after the decisive battle on the Eastern Front. The battle across the Mediterranean was not comparable to those on the Eastern Front. Italian army was a non-factor, a joke. You're comparing a child to an adult.

You were not aware of the defeat of the vaunted Japanese Kwantung Army at the Battle of Khalkin Gol in Inner Mongolia in 1939? It was a Pre-emptive move by the Soviets to avoid a Pincher. Google it for more info.

Much of the US equipments, as part of the lend-lease agreement, could not function due to the weather. In Winter, Russia is a forsaken place. Have you ever heard of General Winter? How many of the foreign equipments could function at -45^oC? The Germans learned in a hard way. And America was paid back, on the said equipments.

Historically, the Russians are revered in Mathematical Physics. Despite the Industrial base being destroyed, much of the brain was still intact. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they were able to build new Industrial cities across the Urals, detonated a nuclear bomb in 1949 and started the Space race with Sputnik in 1957 and Gagarin in 1961. Up till now, they're second to none in Nuclear Physics ~ fission, fussion, laser, quantum, and Exploration ~ Space, Polar, Sea/Ocean.

You never heard of the Korean war of 1950-53? No wonder you were not aware of the wanton destruction of the North. I can't blame you.

What led to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor? Here is the link for you:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/McCollum/

And what led to the Japanese surrender? Read along:

http://www.ia.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1297

Intellectually, you do not impress me at all. If you don't know about something, just remain passive and peruse the forum.

Correction, Stalingrad and The battle of kursk weren't the turing point of WW2. They were decisive battles on the eastern front.  a small difference, but one you have to learn. Stalingrad didn't break the back of the German army. it was a disastrous campaign for the Germans, leading to the destruction of the German 6th army. in the aftermath the red army mounted several offensives inthe winter, successfully driving the germans back, but the germans were able to recover and recapture msot of the lost ground by successfully counter-attacking. There's a clear difference between the Wehrmacht and the entire german millitary. anyone reading your piece would think that the entire german millitary was chewed up in and around stalingrad.
Kursk now was another matter. if you say the Russians broke the back of the German Millitary, how did it come to be that the greatest tank battle the world has ever known started out as a German offensive, and only turned into a rout when the germans failed to penetrate and were counter attacked. After Kursk,, the german armies in the east were permanently on the retreat.
The Wehrmacht and their much vaunted blitzkrieg was not the entire german millitary. why mislead yourself and others? By your statement anyone would believe even the luftwaffe was smashed in Stalingrad and Kursk.

Decisive battles they both were, but not THE decisive battles. many abound int he anals of the war. Hitler would have defeated the soviets if all his army was brought to bear before the rusians could mobilise, but a HUGE portion of the german army was in france, africa, greece etc fighting off the western allies. if the Germans had beaten the RAF in the Battle of Britain, the invasion of britain could have gone on as planned and if britain had fallemn, the Germans could have turned their full might against the Russians. Don't forget that Operation Sea Lion (the planned german invasion of britain) would have caught a british army ill-prepared and ill-equipped desperately trying to recoup the loss of materiel in France. That, in retrospect also ranks up there with the Greatest battles of WW2.

I've looked at the Memo. While i thank you for bringing this to my knowledge, the memo makes a claim that roosevelt goaded japan into attacking America. Nowhere did it say that it goaded japan into attacking pearl harbour.
Look at this from common sense. before WW2, naval experts agreed that th Battleship was the most formidable naval warship to have in your arsenal. so why would any county set up an attack that destroyed 2 battleships including the USS Arizona (called the pride of the US navy) as well as cripple six others, kill thousands of experience sailors and aviators, destroy valuable fuel supplies and cripple the US navy in the pacific for about a year? If the aim was to provoke japan into attacking america, why then make them attack and destroy your capability to respond? Use your brains, man.
In the aftermath of pearl harbour, the japanese navy were totally unopposed for a while, allowing them easy access for the conquest of the phillipines.

Check this out

US deliveries to USSR
The list  below is the amount of war matériel shipped to the Soviet Union through the Lend-Lease program from the beginning of it until September 30, 1945.

Aircraft, 14,795
Tanks, 7,056
Jeeps, 51,503
Trucks, 375,883
Motorcycles, 35,170
Tractors, 8,071
Guns, 8,218
Machine guns, 131,633
Explosives, 345,735 tons
Building equipment valued, $10,910,000
Railroad freight cars, 11,155
Locomotives, 1,981
Cargo ships, 90
Submarine hunters, 105
Torpedo boats, 197
Ship engines, 7,784
Food supplies, 4,478,000 tons
Machines and equipment, $1,078,965,000
Non-ferrous metals, 802,000 tons
Petroleum products, 2,670,000 tons
Chemicals, 842,000 tons
Cotton, 106,893,000 tons
Leather, 49,860 tons
Tires, 3,786,000
Army boots, 15,417,000 pairs


and this
For example, the USSR was highly dependent on trains, yet the desperate need to produce weapons meant that fewer than 20 new locomotives were produced in the USSR during the entire war. In this context, the supply of 1,981 US locomotives can be better understood. Likewise, the Soviet air force was almost completely dependent on US supplies of very high octane aviation fuel. Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of high-quality US-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was US-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2.5 ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. US supplies of waterproof telephone cable, aluminium, and canned rations were also critical

Culled from wikipedia


Then again, i already knew most of this. it suits you, however to believe that the equipment 'just froze' and failed. if you insist continue in your erroneous beliefs. As an ancient proverb goes, 'there is none so blind as they who will not see'

Both Encarta 2006 and Wikipedia are clear on one thing: the Lend-lease suplies were not to be repaid. The Red Army paid nothing for the gifts


Most of russian advances in Nuclear and rocketry was obtained by ruthlessly culling the entire germany of top scientists. Admittedly, the US did the same, but the russians were faster and less scrupulous. despite leading the race in Space science, the americans eventually caught up. Let me task your grey matter a little. Which side built the first ICBM?

An di never denied that the Korean war took place. All i objected to was the term 'totally destroyed'. I said i wsn't aware that the US totally destroyed North Korea, since a large part of the fighting took place in what is now south Korea and the Chinese soon put a top to american presence in the North. Please try not to let belligerence cloud your mind.

Will you use one man's opinions as to what led to the Japanese surrender form your own opinions? I clicked that link in the hope of being educated just like the Mccullem memo did for me, only to see you using a guy's book (one man!!) as a basis for your beliefs. you dissapoint me there.

FYI, the German army took over the defence of Italy from the surrendering italian army. Previously, the US army had conquered Sicily, Defeated the German Afrika Korps and liberated greece, simultaneously carrying out the pacific battles. The relatively fewer number of casualties on the Us side is indicative of the way the USa fought. rather than send raw conscripts to face the Elite German Wehrmacht as stalin did, reasonably well trained and superbly equipped Us troops fought during the war. Additionally, much of the soviet fighting was done on their own soil and henceforth on good, tank-friendly terrain. The Us marines that died in the Jungles of Imphal and Kohima could tell you more about jungle warfare and its relative diffculty.

Perhaps i made some mistakes in this piece. I'm hoping you point it out, lets discuss as mature people. It's a disturbing trend here in nairaland that the first reaction to someone posting a view contrary to someone else is to question the person's intelligence.
I have long studied the history and art of war, right from the Napoleonic battles (where i rule supreme!) to WW2. I'd enjoy disussing the finer points with you, but not in a climate of insults and vitriol, ok? Sheathe ur sword.

@Davidylan,

There is a saying in my place that "if you know where you took your bath, you should look for your towel there"

I will not slit your skull and put my words into your head for you to understand straightforward and clear statements.

Conitnue to wallow in self deceit and politics.

nilla:

@ davidlyan,

so apart from dressing like civilians they also shape themselves as children abi?
Also you are confused when you say people are not using common sense in posting but religious bla bla,

I stop shot of refering to you as confused completely ignorant!

Where did i claim that people are not posting with common sense? Read first!

Dear ma, you seem to confuse war with a police raid. There is no how a war would not claim the lives of innocents, children included. Hizbollah fires 100 rockets a day into Isreal OSTENSIBLY TO KILL CIVILIANS INCLUDING KIDS!!! Did those kids by chance cross the lebanese border to fight hizbollah or are they the ones flying those air raids into beirut?

For how long will Isreal continue to warn civillians to steer clear of Hizbollah-controlled areas? Or are these kids not being used as mere human shields in hizbollahs sick public relations stunt to portray Isreal as the agressor?

The last line of your above post must be clear only to you!

@ afam,
it is you who has a problem with the truth! I wont waste words with you.

@ niterider,
Your ignorance is palpable. Please by all means send out the Egyptians and greeks who are occupying their present countries that has historically belonged to them. So if the Nigerians are driven out of Nigeria today and Camerounians settle there, Nigerians have no right 100 yrs down the line to reclaim their land accordiing to modern day law? What law are you talking about here? The one you promulgated?

Do you regard the palestinians as "legal owners" of the land or mere usurpers of a land that has historically belonged to the jews?

@ Davidylan
May be when u finally get it into ur head that you really dont knw as much as you think you knw,then we can talk.Posting like you knws everything while he cant even put a reasonable point across backed with evidence.Nigeria?what an example to cite.Do you knw who the inhabitants of nigeria were in 600BC??My guess is no.So if people frm congo come wit some history bullshit that they occupied the land back then then they shld be given the land.You are so unbelievable.

Legal for us in the 21st century my friend is what the UN has endorsed.GET IT?

niterider:

@ Davidylan
May be when u finally get it into your head that you really don't knw as much as you think you knw,then we can talk.Posting like you knws everything while he can't even put a reasonable point across backed with evidence.Nigeria?what an example to cite.Do you knw who the inhabitants of nigeria were in 600BC??My guess is no.So if people frm congo come wit some history bullshit that they occupied the land back then then they shld be given the land.You are so unbelievable.

To start with, i have no apologies if my posts come up as way beyond your intellectual capacity. It's thru no fault of mine. However i cant becos of you decide to post drivel just as you've done in your last few posts.
What irritates you in my posts? What are the points that dont just come across? Please do let me know, for now, you're the only one complaining and it might not be too far fetched to think its because of your limited cerebral capacity as evinced by your numerous grammatical errors.

Dont make noise here. I used Nigeria ONLY as an example. The Jews, Greeks, Egyptians are people with well known histories even down to their very land of origin. The jews should be allowed to remain in their ancestral homes! Chikena!

What have i posted that is not already common knowledge? I think the problem is you find it difficult to think as far as your nose so it annoys you that others can.

niterider:

Legal for us in the 21st century my friend is what the UN has endorsed.GET IT?

Yet more ignorance! Who is the UN? Who controls the legal instrument called the UN?

In what way does the UN make laws for individual nations? where was the UN when the British claimed the falkland islands belonging to ARgentina? Where is the UN now that China and Hongkong are fighting over ownership of the island of hongkong?

What really has the UN ever endorsed and for who?

You are exposing ur ignorance man.Hongkong is fighting for their soveriegnity frm china.What does that have to do with wat we are discussing on this thread.Tell me wat the difference is between citizens of hongkong and citizens of china?Its not like the people in hongkong are japanese or something.

niterider:

You are exposing your ignorance man.Hongkong is fighting for their soveriegnity frm china.What does that have to do with what we are discussing on this thread.Tell me what the difference is between citizens of hongkong and citizens of china?Its not like the people in hongkong are japanese or something.

Yet more nonsense from you!

1. i used the issue of China and Hongkong to depict the toothless bulldog nature of the UN you seem to place so much faith in.
2. Since there is very little difference between Nigerians and Togolese, why doesnt nigeria just go and annex Togo?

You dont seem to have a proper grasp of the subject matter, you're just grasping at straws.

ERm why don't you all come out and say what exactly is in your heart

it's obviously a case of christains vs muslims again

_{CNN seriously affects the brain} 

the U.N can't work properly in some cases esp when U.S is involved or should i say the U.S government do not recognise the U.N

and the words we are looking for is still "immediate ceasefire"

lets be good citizens of the world and care more about the plight of innocent people on both sides 

@ Loverbwoy

I have never shied away from saying that this war is less about land than it is about the evil desire of some to perpetuate an islamic ideology in the middle east by annihilating the Isrealis. Listen to the words emanating from Iran (ahmedinajad, khomeini) and Syria and it is clear Hizbollah is not fighting over land but to completely drive the Jews into the sea.

The UN? Just a meaningless entity that is used as a trump card at the behest of the US and its allies.

Immediate ceasefire? No! Why no one is talking about the complete disarmament of hizbollah beats me! Has it now become legal for militias to buy weapons and start firing rockets at innocent civilians?

Good citizens? You all should have thought of these many years ago when Hizbollah was practically shelling Isreal for yrs without retaliation. What of the innocent jews killed then? Did they not deserve our sympathy?

@ davidylan

it is clear everyone is divided NOT BASED ON COMMON SENSE BUT ON RELIGIOUS DIVIDES.

this above is a quote from you.

davidylan:

I stop shot of refering to you as confused completely ignorant!

Where did i claim that people are not posting with common sense? Read first!

Dear ma, you seem to confuse war with a police raid. There is no how a war would not claim the lives of innocents, children included. Hizbollah fires 100 rockets a day into Isreal OSTENSIBLY TO KILL CIVILIANS INCLUDING KIDS!!! Did those kids by chance cross the lebanese border to fight hizbollah or are they the ones flying those air raids into beirut?

For how long will Isreal continue to warn civillians to steer clear of Hizbollah-controlled areas? Or are these kids not being used as mere human shields in hizbollahs sick public relations stunt to portray Isreal as the agressor?

The last line of your above post must be clear only to you!

I should read first?. your the one that cannot even remember what you wrote or rather should say you do not know what you wrote.

Trust me you can't call me confused and completely ignorant. when you sure are one from what you have stated.

Its no big deal, I don't see why you should be getting agitated. obviously your in support of Israel. Big deal I am not in support of them.

@ davidylan
You continue to show ur inability to back up ur points with credible proof.You ask why nigeria is not anexing togo because some togolese speak a nigerian language,well,i'll ask you another question,why were the igbo not allowed to form biafra when they wanted out.Listen man,i think at this point,it wld serve both our interests not to reply each others posts personally.Lets just state our arguments in general without directin posts to each other.

nilla:

@ davidylan

Trust me you can't call me confused and completely ignorant. when you sure are one from what you have stated.

Its no big deal, I don't see why you should be getting agitated. obviously your in support of Israel. Big deal I am not in support of them.

Obviously i cant break open your head to make you understand the import of the earlier statement you quoted from me. I am not under any obligation to explain my posts to people like you who are too blinded by their bias to make objective statements. Please by all means ignore me and respond to others. Havent got too much time to waste on posters like you.

niterider:

@ davidylan
You continue to show your inability to back up your points with credible proof.You ask why nigeria is not anexing togo because some togolese speak a nigerian language,well,i'll ask you another question,why were the igbo not allowed to form biafra when they wanted out.Listen man,i think at this point,it would serve both our interests not to reply each others posts personally.Lets just state our arguments in general without directin posts to each other.

Makes perfect sense niterider. I wonder what "credible proof" you are refering to. By all means go to Lebanon or Isreal and seek proof there!