Hizbollah and the questions we refused to ask!

There are always two sides to a coin and for every action there will always be a reaction. Reading through the posts on this topic, it is clear everyone is divided NOT BASED ON COMMON SENSE BUT ON RELIGIOUS DIVIDES. The attitude of "i am muslim so hizbollah must be right" has and will remain the cross that the world has to bear for years to come as millitant Islamofascism begins to rear its ugly head.
It is so easy for the whole world to get "queasy" about the carnage that occured in Qana but after all said and done, all the outrage will amount to is the ultimate in hypocrisy. The same people shedding crocodile tears over the children of Qana burnt flags and celebrated the murder of 3000 innocent Americans on 911. Let us not begin to mention Madrid, 7/7, Java, Nairobi, Bombay e.t.c.

Is the outrage over Qana really an outrage over Isreali "aggression" or a cheap public relations stunt by hizbollah? Over 100 people are killed by islamic militia in Iraq on a daily basis and yet no one has raised an eyebrow, aljazeera does not seem to have reporters in baghdad and no one seems to be calling for a "UN backed immediate ceasefire". Is agression only when "zionists" kill "innocent" lebanese human shields for terrorist? What of the hundreds killed since Hizbollah started throwing thousands of rockets at Isreal? why has the Isreali govt taken the pains to keep its citizens in bomb shelters and yet the so-called lovers of Qana only seem to derive pleasure in showing off the dead, mangled bodies of their human shields?

Why does hizbollah, not a national army, have 13000 katyusha rockets? Self defence?

A lot of people have ignorantly asked Isreal to leave the civilians alone and go after Hizbollah. Pray! How does Isreal go about doing that when terrorists dress like civillians, hide bombs in mosques and fire missiles from residential homes? Apparently the IDF has learnt a big lesson from the Americans who tried that tactic in Iraq. The consequence? The Americans have lost at least 5x more men than during the war itself.
These terrorists are no brave fighters defending a nationalist cause, they do not respect their own countries and are only fighting the cause of their religion. It is sad that most everyone has jumped on the back of Isreal, it is hard to see how lenient you can be when you have had to defend yourself from those sworn to your destruction for the past 58 yrs of your independence.

There will be no ceasefire until hizbollah is completely rooted out. I do not support the shuttle diplomacy trip of Condi Rice, the same men she is meeting in Lebanon will not hesitate to sponsor  terrorists to bomb the white house at the slightest opportunity. Those who claim Isreal is treating palestinians like dogs should please tell me how a jew can even dream of ever walking away with his life in palestine. Countless arabs are citizens of Isreal and are thus protected under the Isreali constitution despite the fact that they support the terrorists against their "nation". While Isreal, despite threats and suicide bombs has developed to become a major world power surrounded by illiterate war mongers whose only idea of public education is filling their children with anti-semitic vitriolic.

"Moderate" muslims on the other side of the divide are the worst hypocrites. When western govts came to ferry their citizens away from Lebanon, suddenly those who are now crying over Qana where quick to wave their "foreign" passports to escape to relative safety in the cozy comfort provided for them by the same infidels they would not hesitate to destroy. Why did the "moderate" muslims not stay back to defend their home country? Why are muslims denigrating Isreal and the west and yet do not hesitate to flaunt their US and European passports at the slightest opportunity?

Many "moderates" are quick to say they are only interested in the innocent caught up in the conflict. They lie! It is hard to see how any lasting cease fire can be achieved with nations that are sworn to your destruction. No one likes war, but if that is the only way by which you can guarantee a future for the next generation of jews, then so be it. That Isreal has chosen not to hypocritically put the mangled bodies of their ow children on international TV does not make hizbollah innocent of war crimes too!

shango:

I called you such because you did the same. Simple as that. Only in my case I was justified as you really are an slowpoke. For example I have not said "lets blame the jews" quit with the stupid bullshit and read what I said. I have said extremists on both sides are to blame for the current situation. READ YOU IDIOT. BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME. How many times will I say it, are you mentally retarded? I will state it again, EXTREMISTS ON BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME! Has it sunk in yet, are you beggining to get the major gist of my argument. I really hope so unless all hope is lost.

Intolerance is killing 300+ people in the name of killing 5 "terrorists". Intolerance is strapping a bomb to yourself and walking in the middle of a restaurant and killing innocent children. Both will never solve the problem. And contrary to the bullshit you posted I did post a solution, if you took the time to READ WHAT I POSTED. How can I argue with someone who doesnt even read my arguments and just regurgitates the same bull ad nauseum. I said compromise is the answer. Israel has to work out a plan with Palestine and its Arab neighbors if they ever want peace, that should be their primary goal, they should negotiate and negotiate till something is worked out, and it will work, most palestinians aren't extremist bomb strapping fanatics hellbent on destroying Israel, that group is a minority. Most Palestinians want to live in peace, and same goes for the Israelis. Military force will never work unless they go on a genocidal mission and wipe out all their Arab neighbors like the British did the Native Indians of the North Americas.

Exactly, only a Zionists can hold such unbalanced views on the situation. That is why I said I am ashamed if texazzpete is a Nigerian. Are you paid by AIPAC or something to spew such Zionist rhetoric up to the point that you do not even see what I wrote but only what you want to see. I could give a rubbish about the Palestinians, Arabs, Lebanese or Israelis, but I simply call it as it is. I do not take sides, quit trying to portray me like I think what Hezbollah does is justified, I understand why they do it, just like I understood why the British and other European powers sold slaves and treated Africans like chattel. You think I justify that to just because I can rationally explain the motivations behind those heinous, inhumane acts? Get the mess out of hear,

I grow weary of you, little man. i really have no time for your childish games. Keep spewing your insults at me, i'm unfazed.
Perhaps i should feel honoured when you call me names like 'idiot' and 'slowpoke' consideing the fact that u're using the same words u use to address ur parents, doubtlessly.
If you claim ur insults are a direct response to mine, you'd notice that i apologized for ANY and ALL strong words i used a few posts down. If reading english is your problm, i can probably dig out an old copy of Queen Primer for you to peruse.
For the last time, do not seek me out, maggot. I'm here to discuss my views ina logical manner, not to get caught up ina time wsting argument with a wastepipe like you.

kaecy5:

hmm i just wish iran does not get involve in this war , if not the treat the president made some time earlier about annihilating isreal with his pinchomic nuclear war head. and foolishness abounds because he would forget that the radiation would also get to him
see what hate can do. at times i feel what the isrealis go through because there is a certain tribe in nigeria that every body gets scared of for no reason, i wont mention it i beleive we are intellectual enough
all i still say is arabs should stop all this hate and learn to live with the jews thats if they r actually jews and not khazzars

Perhaps the estimated 100 nuclear missile the Israelis have (on short and medium range Jericho missiles) might help in changing his mind, were he to feel suicidal. Check wikipedia for details.

BTW, dont y'all think it's strange that we all enjoy bashing american media for bias and being 'propaganda weapons' when most of the exposes in Iraq were from the Washington post and the New York Times? it wasnt Al-Jazeera that broke the story of the Abu ghraib abuses, was it?

Nutter:

@texazzpete,

Nice one bruv; good to hear that. I’ve done the same (largely) even though some make it painfully difficult for my typing fingers to be guided by self-imposed censorship. In any case, one continues to try.

Welcome back, mate.

yeah, you too.
I guess Chxta owes me big time for puttin' me in harm's way,

I am not sure many people in this forum know who Justice Ligali Ayorinde was.  Well, he was the Chief Judge of Lagos State, who in a highly controversial ruling in 1988? against Chief Gani Fawehinmi spoke of IBB as KABIYESI. For the uninitiated, Kabiyesi is a Yoruba word, and the context he used it was to say IBB cannot be made to answer for the tort or miscarriage of any of his actions as the paramount ruler of Nigeria Kingdom.  Chief Gani Fawehinmi had sued IBB and his Director of Intelligence Chiefs, Brigadier-Gen Alilu Akhilu and Togun for killing Dele Giwa of Newswatch magazine on October 19, 1986 through parcel bomb.  He awarded a monetary damage of #6.000,000.00 against Chief Gani Fawehinmi.

To the supporters of Israel and their main backer and Chief supplier of ammunition, the US, they can do no wrong.  After all whatever action the Israelis take against the aggression of the “terrorist” is in self defense and is therefore justified. The world cannot make them answerable for killing innocent civilians and children because they are the God’s nation.
Not many people will recall the target killing/assassination of Palestinians by Israeli Defense.  It does not matter.  They are all terrorists. 

Before the latest skirmishes between Hizbollah and Israel began, Israel killed seven Palestinians including three children at a beach in the Gaza strip in June.  See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm
Did you hear it in the CNN or Fox News?  No. I heard the story on BBC and the Israeli Army initial reaction was to deny it (remember they denied the deliberate bombing of the UN observers) but after much pressure , they agreed to investigate the "accident".  Compare this to the kidnapping of 2 soldiers and the destruction of lives and infrastructures in Lebanon that ensued. Who do we blame? I think both sides are guilty. If the US is genuinely interested in finding peace for Israel, then it must look beyond the military option. Hizbollah is an ideology that cannot be defeated by military might but by genuine peaceful effort.

i think the following gives some perspective into the situation.

"On the isreali side, they have bunkers that serve as bomb shelthers under civilian homes. On the Southern Lebanese(Hezbolla) side they have bunkers which serve as underground storage of rockets and weapons under civilian homes."

Like I said before, bye bye Hezbolla and Good Riddance.

@davidylan

You are asking why no one is calling for a ceasefire in Iraq to end the killing that goes on from day to day, why would anyone do so? Is it not America who caused is by ignoring the UN resolution not to go to War and Mr. Bush says America does not need permission from anyone before protecting itself. Basically the UN has drawn their hands and let America deal with the hell they have unleashed in Iraq if they will be able to.

Abeem:


Not many people will recall the target killing/assassination of Palestinians by Israeli Defense. It does not matter. They are all terrorists.

Before the latest skirmishes between Hizbollah and Israel began, Israel killed seven Palestinians including three children at a beach in the Gaza strip in June. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm
Did you hear it in the CNN or Fox News? No. I heard the story on BBC and the Israeli Army initial reaction was to deny it (remember they denied the deliberate bombing of the UN observers) but after much pressure , they agreed to investigate the "accident". Compare this to the kidnapping of 2 soldiers and the destruction of lives and infrastructures in Lebanon that ensued. Who do we blame? I think both sides are guilty. If the US is genuinely interested in finding peace for Israel, then it must look beyond the military option. Hizbollah is an ideology that cannot be defeated by military might but by genuine peaceful effort.

The same article you quote has this at the bottom:
'For many months, the Israelis have been pounding away at open areas such as fields and orchards in an effort to prevent Palestinian militants using them to fire their home-made missiles into nearby Israeli territory.'

Why do you think a country would spend so much money on munitions, firing away at open areas and beaches? israel is willing to go to any length to protect their civillians, a fact which is lost on most Nigerians, we living in a country that could care less about the common people.
Such accidental fatalities are regrettable, no doubt. But u tend to wonder who brought the people in harm's way?

Imagine Anini runs into a house, the police opens fire and an innocent is killed. Does Anini have any right to accuse the police of murder when he himself shares part of the blame? Lame analogy, i'm afraid but its d best i cld come up with at short notice, especially since Anini's been pushing up daisies since the '80s .

I could be wrong, but wasn't it the UN that established the resolution creating the nation of israel? if that's right, and the UN is the world's legal regulatory body, doesnt that make it legal?

texazzpete:

The same article you quote has this at the bottom:
'For many months, the Israelis have been pounding away at open areas such as fields and orchards in an effort to prevent Palestinian militants using them to fire their home-made missiles into nearby Israeli territory.'

Why do you think a country would spend so much money on munitions, firing away at open areas and beaches? israel is willing to go to any length to protect their civillians, a fact which is lost on most Nigerians, we living in a country that could care less about the common people.
Such accidental fatalities are regrettable, no doubt. But u tend to wonder who brought the people in harm's way?

Imagine Anini runs into a house, the police opens fire and an innocent is killed. Does Anini have any right to accuse the police of murder when he himself shares part of the blame? Lame analogy, i'm afraid but its d best i cld come up with at short notice, especially since Anini's been pushing up daisies since the '80s .

I could be wrong, but wasn't it the UN that established the resolution creating the nation of israel? if that's right, and the UN is the world's legal regulatory body, doesnt that make it legal?

Your idealogy is barbaric and outdated. What you are talking only happens in places where there is no law. In civilized countries, which we have been thinking that the US and UK are, they do not destroy everyone to get the thief who ran in, if so my friend why would they worry for hostages. If anyone takes people hostage, then bomb the whole building and kill everyone including the hostage taker, is that what you are saying?

@Davidylan,

Not everyone here plays the politics of religion or blind support or condemnation of a people based on race or religion.

I am a christian and I dare maintain that Israel is using disproportionate force in its response to Hezbollah. This is common sense and the truth and the fact on ground.

People should rise up above the level of religious bigotry to call a spade by its real name.

It is wrong for anyone, group or people or country to kill any innocent person.

Hezbollah apologised for killing 2 arabs in Israel but for the many christians in Lebanon that have been killed I am yet to read or hear about apologies from Israel, all we hear are excuses or some useless justifications? What manner of justification would one give for killing someone that has not done anything wrong to you?

@Afam
looking back, i see my analogy was kinda off. sorry for that


And you're right. Killing by any means is evil.

@ davidylan
You start ur post like u are different.All throughout ur post,u try to make everyone else a novice and ur honourable self very vast in international politics and very well read.I have news for you my friend,you are just like any of the other posters.You point of view has shown ur bias.You like any other person here has shown your human side by sentimentally backin the united states and isreal.That doesnt make u a bad person,it only makes you human.The pnly thing wrong i see with ur post is that you tried ur possibe best to appear neutral but as u will see,it cant really be pulled-off.
Now back to the matter at hand.You cannot just accuse everyone of religious undertone in their bias.That would be unfair.Hezbollah themselves are fighting for a country is the most religiously diverse in the middle east.They have the christians,the muslims which are further subdivided.How can you now say that religion is a factor.I dnt see isreal excluding any religion frm their bombing campaign.When it suits the US and Isreal,they use the religion factor and when it doesnt,they dnt.I'm afraid u have become so entangled in their propaganda that you cant see for urself.

Texazzpete,

Enjoy my friend, we are trying to make the world a better place by condemning what is wrong and commending what is right regardless of the people involved.

Take care and stay blessed.

please people. freddom fighters supporters. can some one please tell me how would isreal be able to differentiate hezbollah and civilians since they all dress alike
and can some one also tell me how come aljazeera does not report the iraq sucide bombings
afam we know ur in a better postion to answer these questions

niterider:

Now back to the matter at hand.You cannot just accuse everyone of religious undertone in their bias.That would be unfair.Hezbollah themselves are fighting for a country is the most religiously diverse in the middle east.They have the christians,the muslims which are further subdivided.How can you now say that religion is a factor.I dnt see isreal excluding any religion frm their bombing campaign.When it suits the US and Isreal,they use the religion factor and when it doesnt,they dnt.I'm afraid u have become so entangled in their propaganda that you can't see for yourself.

Hezbolla fighting for lebanon? Wow talk about buying into propaganda. You obviously have no clue of the politics in Lebanon. Hezbolla are only supported by the Shite area of Lebanon. They are absolutely distrusted and not tolorated by the Christain and smaller Sunni areas of Lebanon.
[Sacarsm]Could this be because they were created by Iran (which is also distrusted by some Arab nations in the Middle East) becos it wants to further it's goals in the Middle East? Hmmm I wonder.[/Sacarsm]

Amongnst all the rubbish being spouted in this thread about Isreal and the US, you have ignored the fact that there are Arab nations in the middle east that have normal relations with Isreal. Could it be they were willing to end the state of war with Isreal? Could it be that these countries don't seek the destruction of Isreal? Hmmmm I wonder. Plus what about the Arabs living in Isreal that blame Hezbolla for the current crisis.

kaecy5:

please people. freddom fighters supporters. can some one please tell me how would isreal be able to differentiate hezbollah and civilians since they all dress alike
and can some one also tell me how come aljazeera does not report the iraq sucide bombings
afam we know your in a better postion to answer these questions

it seems you really don't know what you are talking about because Hezbollah is an Army, go watch their training. This is nt Hammas or Al-Qaeda which are suicide bombers, its a political party (Hezb-Allah meaning Party Of God) and they have their own army. Have you ever heard Hezbollah carrying out suicide bombings yet?

Mariory:

Hezbolla fighting for lebanon? Wow talk about buying into propaganda. You obviously have no clue of the politics in Lebanon. Hezbolla are only supported by the Shite area of Lebanon. They are absolutely distrusted and not tolorated by the Christain and smaller Sunni areas of Lebanon.
[Sacarsm]Could this be because they were created by Iran (which is also distrusted by some Arab nations in the Middle East) because it wants to further it's goals in the Middle East? Hmmm I wonder.[/Sacarsm]

Amongnst all the rubbish being spouted in this thread about Isreal and the US, you have ignored the fact that there are Arab nations in the middle east that have normal relations with Isreal. Could it be they were willing to end the state of war with Isreal? Could it be that these countries don't seek the destruction of Isreal? Hmmmm I wonder. Plus what about the Arabs living in Isreal that blame Hezbolla for the current crisis.

Fair enough, I am a Christian as well, and I will tell you what is wrong is wrong? Ok, they have kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers and you are honestly telling us that this is all because of that. If you follow the news well, you would have noticed that by now Israel are no more fighting to release only 2 soldiers, rather to disarm hezbollah. Who is Israel to request that? Do you think that Saudi Arabia for example can ask Israel to disarm themselves? Is that how the world oeprates now. Anyone who seems to be strong or to affect the oil economy of te so called 1st world powers, will have to be removed?

@Kaecy5

I wonder why Afam would be in a better position to respond to your post when Afam lives in Lagos, Nigeria, is a christian, watches television stations like CNN or local ones in Nigeria, reads news online or offline just like the rest of us.

However, what Afam has decided not to do is agree or believe the many distorted information being peddled by either of the extremists on the part of the Islamic fundamentalists on one hand and the US/Israel on the other.

We should clamour for a fundamental truth, justice, fairness and peace.

However, it is the duty of Israel to figure out a way to locate and kill their enemies not killing innocent ones as such cannot be excused nor can it be justified.

Transferred aggression or collateral damage do not apply here because no one reserves the right to take the life of an innocent one in this world.

Take care.

Isn't Hezbollah a terrorist organization that's also a problem to the Lebanese government?

ahh i tot Hezbollah is for d lebanese
are they not fighting against isreal
hope am correct??

@kaecy5, @davidylan, @mariory, etc, , since you are all claiming that Israel has the right to defend itself, can you justify, if hezbollah is the one fighting them and they are who they (Israel) want, why have they killed up to 19 Lebanese Forces soldiers to date? You tell me, has the Lebanese Forces under the command of Lebanon hit Israel or killed any Israel civilian or soldier?

Seun:

Isn't Hezbollah a terrorist organization that's also a problem to the Lebanese government?

hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation thats also a problem to the Lebanese Govt, it is a resistance group that is fighting to stop Israel from occupying Arab lands (Lebanon) which they are very good in doing. Israel, did not until 1948 have a state. It was known previously from the days of the Bible as the land of Palestine. All this we give thanks to the British who have caused nothing on this earth but havoc by mixing people and tribes of different religions, cultures, languages, etc, together, thereby causing unrest in every single country that they have colonised.

medube:

hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation thats also a problem to the Lebanese Govt, it is a resistance group that is fighting to stop Israel from occupying Arab lands (Lebanon) which they are very good in doing. Israel, did not until 1948 have a state. It was known previously from the days of the Bible as the land of Palestine. All this we give thanks to the British who have caused nothing on this earth but havoc by mixing people and tribes of different religions, cultures, languages, etc, together, thereby causing unrest in every single country that they have colonised.

Sounds like ure talkin about Nigeria, bro, but if we kept blaming Lord Lugard for our woes, where would we be today?

This is nice people!! The past few posts have been free from insults. That's great, i hope we can keep it up.
I sat downa nd discussed this issue with a few pals and, well, all i can say is i'm trying to keep bias out of my views from here on.
Will shelve the malaria-in-africa pet project for now. Alas, i fear i will never be able to make a difference in that either.

it is a resistance group that is fighting to stop Israel from occupying Arab lands (Lebanon) which they are very good in doing.

In other words, the state of Israel is simply fighting for its right to exist? That sounds quite sensible.

medube:

hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation thats also a problem to the Lebanese Govt, it is a resistance group that is fighting to stop Israel from occupying Arab lands (Lebanon) which they are very good in doing. Israel, did not until 1948 have a state. It was known previously from the days of the Bible as the land of Palestine. All this we give thanks to the British who have caused nothing on this earth but havoc by mixing people and tribes of different religions, cultures, languages, etc, together, thereby causing unrest in every single country that they have colonised.

thanx, seun.
i really wonder how anyone who knows just a bit of history would be in support of israel?
really wonder how many "christians" on this thread still support israel after Qana and other terrorist acts being perpetrated by the state of israel on their neighbours since the UN with the help of
Britain "dashed" the jews the land of palestine. and to think lebanon is roughly 50% christian!


neither hamas nor hezbollah are regarded by the UN or european countries outside the EU as terrorist. only countries who have major interests to protect by defending israel regard these groups as terrorist. i, for one, fail to see what's "terrorist" in fighting for what rightfully belongs to you.

<< please cut and paste the relevan portions of the discussion in question. If you link was to Naijaryders or another uniquely named Nigerian forum, I'll have allowed it. Thanks a million for your understanding >>

na so life be!

carmenlily, there is nothing like land that rightfully belongs to anybody.

Would it make sense for the American Indians to say they want to drive the African-Americans and Europeans away from America by force since the land "rightfully" belongs to them? Is such a cause worth the sacrifice of innocent lives? That's why I classify Hezbollah and other groups like them as terrorist organizations.

hmm classifie them
the fact still remains that they are not terrorists

they should better stop this nonsense.innocent
people are dying

i say "rightfully" because what israel's doing is land-grabbing without respect for human life or inrternational law.

while both hamas and hezbollah are doing many things wrong, we cant say israel is right in dispossessing their arab neighbours of their land. it's just like the mistress overthrowing madam and u say oga doesn't rightfully belong to madam?

i dont know when this their wahala will stop

Before the Arabs started living in that land, someone else was there. No one "rightfully" owns any land unless you brought it from your mother's womb or created it. Once you have people living in a land, you cannot say you want to drive them away unless you don't value human life. It is just not sensible. Look the Ife-modakeke crisis here too.

If Hezbollah is a peaceful organization, why do they have so many advanced weapons and why are they bombing Israel in a random fashion? At least the Israelis try to target Hezbollah, even though sometimes they hit civilians. This may be a case of two mad men fighting, but I maintain that Hezbollah is 'madder' than the Israelite army.

Here's one question for you: should the Indian Americans rise up to drive Europeans and Africans out by force?

Who was residing on that piece of land before the arabs??How about u go back and check ur history books

Well, it shows that might is indeed right when the UN is useless, security council irrelevant unless the issues concern them directly.

I support the quest for nuclear weapons by any country that is interested in getting them as that seems to be the only thing the US/Israel respects.

North Korea are being petted today because they have clearly and unambiguosly told the US that a mere trade embargo on NK would be interpreted as declaration of war and that they will inflict the worst type of pain on the US in return. What came out of it? Softening of the US's policy towards NK and the US agreeing to talk with them even when the US had earlier stated that it will never do so.

I am not surprised, the US and Britain are empires built with other peoples' lives, sufferings and blood so injustices don't mean much to them.