nferyn:

1. They're not being carpet bombed
2. If you think that carpet bombing is a proportionate response agains rocket atacks, you're on the verge of being psychopathic.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/carpet%20bombing
carpet bombing
n : an extensive and systematic bombing intended to devastate a large target

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5192990.stm
Israeli military officials say more than 700 Hezbollah rockets have now landed in Israel since the crisis began.

^
^
And that's not counting the rockets Hezbolla had continuosly fired into Israel before the current crisis.

Pull your head out of your ass

Mariory:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/carpet%20bombing
carpet bombing
n : an extensive and systematic bombing intended to devastate a large target

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5192990.stm
Israeli military officials say more than 700 Hezbollah rockets have now landed in Israel since the crisis began.

And the firing of these rockets doesn't even meet the minimal definition you used here. There was no extensive bombing of a large target. Hezbollah simply does not have the capabilities to carry out such a bombing.

Mariory:

And that's not counting the rockets Hezbolla had continuously fired into Israel before the current crisis.

Irrelevant. It's not carpet bombing

Mariory:

Pull your head out of your ass

What an eloquence. You should go to Hyde Park corner, you'll definitely attract an audience.

nferyn:

And the firing of these rockets doesn't even meet the minimal definition you used here. There was no extensive bombing of a large target. Hezbollah simply does not have the capabilities to carry out such a bombing.
Irrelevant. It's not carpet bombing
What an eloquence. You should go to Hyde Park corner, you'll definitely attract an audience.

You keep talking about stuff of which you have no clue.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5194068.stm
After days and nights of bombardment, the streets are empty, roads are quiet and shops and businesses have shut down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5187974.stm
Hezbollah's Katyushas are thought to derive mainly from former Soviet and Chinese stockpiles. Because of their lack of a guidance system, Katyushas have the greatest effect when launched in concentrated numbers.

, Some analysts believe that Hezbollah also has the more potent Zelzal-2 which has a claimed range of 200-400km and can be fitted with a 600kg high-explosive warhead.
None of these are guided or accurate systems, but often accuracy is not important if the target is an urban area.

1,500 Nigerians stuck in Lebanon.
OBJ has sent a ship to go and get our people out.
Ghanian Officials asking Nigerian officials to help in also rescuing fellow west africans
It seems that Nigeria is not that Jaga Jaga, Well done Government. Thats one good in your books

Mariory

Nobody is being carpet bombed. The US carpet bombed Afghanistan during the exchange in Tora Bora. I wish Israel would Carpet Bomb Southern Beirut and rid that area of Hezbollah.

nferyn:

More culpable than whom? They're not the ones deliberately targeting civilians. If Hezbollah had the military capabilities of Israel, there would not be a Jew alive today. Hezbollah doesn't even blink when they say that they want to finish Hitler's unfinished business.

I am inclined to believe this. However, you are speaking in terms of the hypothetical. Focus should remain on the current crises - the reason(s) that led to it and the activities of the parties involved. In any evaluation, it will be misleading to mount supposition atop supposition.

nferyn:

If you have enemies with such a blind hatred that have as their ultimate goal your extermination, you're bound to lash out sometimes. The constant warfare and insecurity left Israeli's with a bunker mentality.

This is understandable but it doesn’t excuse the murder of innocents.

JosBoy4Lif:

1,500 Nigerians stuck in Lebanon.
OBJ has sent a ship to go and get our people out.
Ghanian Officials asking Nigerian officials to help in also rescuing fellow west africans
It seems that Nigeria is not that Jaga Jaga, Well done Government. Thats one good in your books

someone has just landed in the external affairs ministry. all it takes is a genuine right minded citizen at the helm of affairs to get this country turned around.

Even the Canadian Govt Reacted late.
Compared to the Nigerian Government.
Im Quite impressed man. Well done

Mariory:

You keep talking about stuff of which you have no clue.

You, Sir, are the one that is clueless. You keep dancing around the fact that the rockets fired by Hezbollah cannot be considered carpet bombing, not even by the most inclusive definition (which you provided).

Mariory:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5194068.stm
After days and nights of bombardment, the streets are empty, roads are quiet and shops and businesses have shut down.

Irrelevant. The effects of the rocket launches does not provide a clue as to wheter or not they can be considered carpet bombing.

Mariory:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5187974.stm
Hezbollah's Katyushas are thought to derive mainly from former Soviet and Chinese stockpiles. Because of their lack of a guidance system, Katyushas have the greatest effect when launched in concentrated numbers.

And that does nothing to substantiate your clueless claim that the rocket launches by Hezbollah are carpet bombing.

Mariory:

Some analysts believe that Hezbollah also has the more potent Zelzal-2 which has a claimed range of 200-400km and can be fitted with a 600kg high-explosive warhead.
None of these are guided or accurate systems, but often accuracy is not important if the target is an urban area.

Again, no evidence whatsoever for carpet bombing.

Nutter:

I am inclined to believe this. However, you are speaking in terms of the hypothetical. Focus should remain on the current crises - the reason(s) that led to it and the activities of the parties involved. In any evaluation, it will be misleading to mount supposition atop supposition.


This is understandable but it doesn’t excuse the murder of innocents.

Funny feeling, myself and Nutter on the same side in an argument. . .

My thoughts and opinions on the Israel thing are well documented on my blog, not just in that particular article. . .

nferyn I have a lot to say to you, but let me perambulate around the forums first. Been a while. . .

nferyn:

You, Sir, are the one that is clueless. You keep dancing around the fact that the rockets fired by Hezbollah cannot be considered carpet bombing, not even by the most inclusive definition (which you provided).
Irrelevant. The effects of the rocket launches does not provide a clue as to wheter or not they can be considered carpet bombing.
And that does nothing to substantiate your clueless claim that the rocket launches by Hezbollah are carpet bombing.
Again, no evidence whatsoever for carpet bombing.

Weather I am wrong or not in this instance is irrelevant anyways. This is besides the point I was trying to make ealier in the thread.

Mariory:

Weather I am wrong or not in this instance is irrelevant anyways. This is besides the point I was trying to make ealier in the thread.

You were using emotionally loaded language to describe a situation that really doesn't need that kind of rhetoric. Stop turing this into a situation where the Israeli angels are being attacked by Shiite devils and that therefore all bets are open. It's a little more complicated than that.

Nferyn I haven't forgotten you yet. . .

Just thinking of how to find bialegend's trouble at the moment. . .

nferyn:

You were using emotionally loaded language to describe a situation that really doesn't need that kind of rhetoric. Stop turing this into a situation where the Israeli angels are being attacked by Shiite devils and that therefore all bets are open. It's a little more complicated than that.

First of all, I never said Israelis were angels and Shiite's were devils. Stop putting words in my mouth. This is about the current crisis engulfing Lebabnon. You would have Israel do nothing? Tell me what else are they to do. They withdraw from land, the terrorist organisations simply move the frontier closer. Even when there is a cease fire they still fire rockets into Israel. For a long time now the Isralis have ignored the rockets coming over but, now the terrorists are crossing the border into Israel itself to attack Israelis. What is the country to do. Or are Israelis expendable?

So please do explain what you feel they should do. Please share your "complicated" view of what a nation should do when it's bordered by nations that still won't recognise it's right to exist. Countries that start wars with it, that sponsor "freedom" groups that use suicide bombers to maim and kill, that are constantly trying to infiltrate it's borders, that launch rockets at it's cities (been going on since Israel withdrew from Lebanon).

Share your complicated view.

Good day Everyone,

Please I will like to know where the Jews lived b4 the begining and the end of 2nd world war?
How did were the Jews relocated to the present location in the mid-east after the 2nd world war?

B4 one can really have a well informed infromation, these two questions must be answered.

One thing I have notice is the fact that an average christians will always support Israel whila a muslim will support Palesinians.
Please remember the most western press are owned and run by Jews, so there is no way they can be fair in their analysis.

onanugaola:

Good day Everyone,

Please I will like to know where the Jews lived before the begining and the end of 2nd world war?
How did were the Jews relocated to the present location in the mid-east after the 2nd world war?

You will have to go back as far as 1881 when Jews started settleing there and buying land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders

onanugaola:

One thing I have notice is the fact that an average christians will always support Israel whila a muslim will support Palesinians.
Please remember the most western press are owned and run by Jews, so there is no way they can be fair in their analysis.

The Western press (apart from FoxNews ofcourse) are some of the most critical of Israel. Especially before the WTC, Madrid, and London bombings. In this case several Islamic countries have blamed Hezbolla.

The dead child is a cousin of a friend of mine. I didn't know she was a member of Hezb'llah. . .

This is the second week of the war between Israel and Lebanon. I do not subscribe to the lie that it is a war between the radical extremist group Hezbollah and Israel. People may believe their eyes or buy into the propaganda of the United States and Israel. Bombs have been raining on Lebanese homes, maiming and killing the people. And Hezbollah rockets have been causing destruction to lives and property of the Israeli people. Therefore it cannot be a war between a country and group.

American politicians have again exposed themselves as gutless and hypocritical. It has become a long standing tradition of American politicians to support every action of Israel no matter how insane it may be. And this time they did not disappoint. Every politician who has been questioned by the media have expressed their undying love for Israel and absolved them of any responsibilities. The greatest disappointment has been Pres. George Bush who constantly touts his Christian values and yet finds nothing wrong in urging the world to look the other way while Israel decimates Hezbollah. The simple truth is that in the process of trying to destroy Hezbollah, many Lebanese and Israeli’s would be killed. Is it pro-life to look the other way while innocent people are killed?

Politicians in the United States of America constantly talk about America’s national interest. The so-called American national interest is often limited to oil. However, they fail to recognize that it is not always in America’s national interest to support any and every action of Israel. It would appear that there is an unwritten policy that defines Israel’s national interest as American national interest. Even then, any discerning person knows that this unwavering and wholesome support for Israeli actions and policies is motivated by the fear of the Jewish power in American politics. It is all about money and votes and Jewish lobby commands a lot of it.

The attitude of American politicians deprives the world of the sincere services of the only super power nation. The United States is incapable of being an honest broker in this conflict or any conflict involving Israel. It goes without saying that at some point there will be a ‘sit down’ between the two parties or their proxies. Who will mediate-- a biased super power or a derided and demeaned United Nations? The sooner we get to the point of talk the better chance we have of achieving some modicum of peace. But the killings have to stop now.

It must be clearly stated that the immediate cause of the current crisis in the Middle East is Hezbollah. By crossing into Israel, abducting and killing Israeli soldiers Hezbollah provoked this conflict. The world knows that Hezbollah is funded and to a large extent controlled by the duo of Iran and Syria. This calculated act of provocation by Hezbollah could not have been carried out without the tacit approval of Iran and Syria. Ironically, Hezbollah’s provocative action came barely twenty-four hours after Iran rebuffed a UN position on its nuclear program. No matter the provocation, it is hard for me to accept that the kidnap of two Israeli soldiers by the Hezbollah could be equated with the killings and destruction that has been going in both countries. This would, no doubt, sustain the cycle of violence that the Middle East has come to be known for. Given the culture of the Middle East, it is foolhardy to believe that if and when a ceasefire is declared the killings would stop. As the bombings continue in Lebanon and Israel more suicide bombers are born. Yet, the reality is that military might and prowess would not bring a solution to the Middle East crisis.

Israel is the ‘super power’ of the Middle East. The Israeli reaction to the Hezbollah provocation was predictable. Nobody, not even the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, believes that the radical Islamic group can defeat Israel in a military conflict. Why then did Hezbollah embark on this suicide mission? And who has benefited from the crisis? The Lebanese government was a very weak one. It is believed that the President of the country is a Syrian puppet. The current pounding by Israel would weaken the government of Prime Minister Siniiora even further. It is not hard to predict that the next elections in Lebanon would see Hezbollah become more powerful as more of its members would be elected into offices.

Certainly, Iran stands to gain from this conflict. While the world’s attention has been turned to the war between Israel and Lebanon, discussion on Iran’s nuclear ambition has been suspended. And another beneficiary has been Pres. George W. Bush. The Israel-Lebanon war has pushed Iraq off the headlines. We should expect the President’s poll numbers to start climbing as America moves towards elections in November. Could that be part of the reason the President does not want to encourage a ceasefire until more Lebanese and Israeli children have been killed?



http://elendureports.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=237

Very interesting read, that.

the lebanese government has failed its people; why are they allowing hezbollah to bring so much devastation to their land? they should beg syria to instruct hezbollah to cease firing rockets into Isreal and to return the 2 Isreali soldiers that were kidnapped from their own land which is an act of terrorism.

If only things were that simple.

Mariory:

First of all, I never said Israelis were angels and Shiite's were devils. Stop putting words in my mouth.

My description of your position was a bit over the top. Sorry for that, but it doesn't mean that carpet bombing is anywhere near accurate.

Mariory:

This is about the current crisis engulfing Lebabnon. You would have Israel do nothing? Tell me what else are they to do. They withdraw from land, the terrorist organisations simply move the frontier closer. Even when there is a cease fire they still fire rockets into Israel. For a long time now the Isralis have ignored the rockets coming over but, now the terrorists are crossing the border into Israel itself to attack Israelis. What is the country to do. Or are Israelis expendable?

If you would have read my posts, you would know that my position is that the reaction of Israel was inevitable and I really don't see many other options they could have chosen, except maybe that they could have chosen another modus operandi and put out an ultimatum to the lebanese government, offering their support, but as the two countries are technically still at war, that wasn't going to happen.

Mariory:

So please do explain what you feel they should do. Please share your "complicated" view of what a nation should do when it's bordered by nations that still won't recognise it's right to exist. Countries that start wars with it, that sponsor "freedom" groups that use suicide bombers to maim and kill, that are constantly trying to infiltrate it's borders, that launch rockets at it's cities (been going on since Israel withdrew from Lebanon).

Sharon's withdrawal from Lebanon was a mistake. Israel should only have left Lebanon after the regular Lebanese army was capable of controlling southern Lebanon. The thing is that there are no [i]good [/i]solutions in the region.

Mariory:

Share your complicated view.

When you stop displaying that patronising attitude.

Wow!! Is anyone watching this Israeli pounding of Hezbollah Positions in Southern Beirut? My God i am proud of the American Made F-16 Fighter Jets with their precision guided missiles. All that bombing and only 300 people dead in Lebanon. Israel needs to keep up with this offensive, and maybe Hezbollah will soon wave the white flags. But i am loving every piece of this war. Is it just me, or is there something entertaining about war?

i enjoy watching war movies, may be you also enjoy it. but, this is no war movie, this is war.human beings are dying. it is cruel to say you are enjoying this whole show. in case you are anti-islam, let me remind you that israel is also bombing christain areas in lebanon. there are nice people in lebanon too. in fact,i have a friend here, a very nice lady from lebanon. a christain too. she was supposed to get married in august and the husband is trapped. what do you say/

war is horrible. for 2 soldiers over 200 people are dead.

and still counting.

there is nothing good about war, make you go sudan if you wan talk that crap

toshmann:

i enjoy watching war movies, may be you also enjoy it. but, this is no war movie, this is war.human beings are dying. it is cruel to say you are enjoying this whole show. in case you are anti-islam, let me remind you that israel is also bombing christain areas in lebanon. there are nice people in lebanon too. in fact,i have a friend here, a very nice lady from lebanon. a christain too. she was supposed to get married in august and the husband is trapped. what do you say/

war is horrible. for 2 soldiers over 200 people are dead.

and still counting.

Thank you my brother!

toshmann:

war is horrible. for 2 soldiers over 200 people are dead.

and still counting.

Do you really think this is only for 2 soldiers? The shelling of northern Israel by Hezbollah has been going on for several years prior to the kidnapping.

Likewise the construction of the Gaza ghetto.

Nferyn, from some posts you have made before I have come to the conclusion that you are a smart fellow. Stop looking at this conflict from a Western bias. Do you seriously think that there can be peace in the Mideast for another generation following the actions of Israel?

Chxta:

Likewise the construction of the Gaza ghetto.

Nferyn, from some posts you have made before I have come to the conclusion that you are a smart fellow. Stop looking at this conflict from a Western bias. Do you seriously think that there can be peace in the Mideast for another generation following the actions of Israel?

Do I think that the actions of Israel are conductive for peace: absolutely not
Do I think that the actions of the neigbouring Arab countries are conductive for peace: even less so
Currently in Israel, due to the influx of new immigrants for the former Soviet Union, the overall right wing attitude of most Askenazi Jews (most of whom were forced to flee to Israel after being expelled or threatened in their native Arab countries) and the electoral system, the right wing parties have a disproportionate weight in politics. Those in power are quite uncompromising and I don't see any improvement of the situation under Olmert.

My point is that the Israeli reaction was quite predictable and that Hezbollah, by trying to blend into the civilian population is deliberately putting these civilians at risk. If you think Israel has little respect for the life of the Arab civilians, Hezbollah and most of the Arab regimes have far less respect for these lives.

Now, concerning the overall possibility of peace, as long as countries such as Syria and Lebanon don't enter into direct peace negotiations with Israel and above all recognise the right of existence of the state of Israel, all is pointless. In exchange for genuine peace and security Israel has been shown willing to make territorial compromises (peace with Egypt)

Am I showing western bias if I try to see both sides of the coin? There are no hard and clear good and bad sides in this conflict.

There are no good sides in this conflict, and my point is that the Israelis are being very stupid by pursuing actions that will definitely ensure the continuation of the conflict for another generation.

Chxta:

There are no good sides in this conflict, and my point is that the Israelis are being very stupid by pursuing actions that will definitely ensure the continuation of the conflict for another generation.

I know very well that their reaction will only further more hate and distrust, but how else could they have reacted? With ennemies such as Hezbollah, appeasement isn't an option either.

Who is talking of appeasment here?

Alex Cunninham showed more effective ways to remove an enemy's means and will to fight than either appeasment or devastation.

We will talk further later. Off for a meeting now.