Crystalline:


Yes, i'm here...and taking note of all ur comments.

Thanks y'all for taking out time to comment, GOD bless you all.

for the sake of those trying to outsmart themselves and clarity, please tell us are you talking about a husband/wife relationship or parent-to-child rship? thanks

shizzle11:
lol...have i said anything out of the ordinary?

Nope.

Sophyrocks:
Nope.

Aiit!

Crystalline: A man says...I don't love my wife because she is not submissive perhaps if she were submissive, i'd have loved her.


A woman says...I am not submissive to my husband because he doesn't love me, if he had shown me love, i'd have been submissive.


Ephesians 5:22...wives be submissive to your husbands as unto the LORD

Ephesians 5:25...husbands love your wives just as CHRIST loves the church.

Now my question is "which should come first...LOVE or SUBMISSION?"

Your honest views are welcome.

One is 5:22, the other is 5:25. Is it so hard to find out which one comes first. Haba.

shizzle11:
To start with for the sake of clarity, the thread bordered on husband/wife relationship, which was why the op quoted some verses that said husband love....., wives submit...and it was in that context that i mede my inputs. It was never on parent/child relationship but rather on spousal relationship.

I only tried to give a clear, concise explanation when you narrowed it down to parent/child rship, thinking you have something meaningful point you are trying to drive at. God back to page1 read the ops question again and digest it so you can understand very well the contest in which she's talking about love and submission

smh... Submission is as much a part of all facets of life and relationships as much as love is. It's present before marriage and during marriage. Your point is that if you love someone, you'd always submit to the person. My point is that love is not the reason people submit.

Let's even pretend marriage has unique psychological rules that doesn't apply elsewhere. Does this mean that every husband who loves his wife would submit to her?

Oahray: explain the part where parents love their children and therefore would submit to them.

I repeat, submission comes from either fear or respect. Fear comes from threat/duress. Respect comes from acknowledging authority. Love doesn't delegate authority. It simply provides a sense of security for the one who submits. Authority is delegated by religion, the societal norm (e.g age), financial power (and one's dependence), intellect, etc.

Why do you think it's harder for a wife who earns way more than her husband to submit to him than when she earns less? Does earning more make her love him less? In a relationship where two people love each other to bits, only one party is submissive. Be more observant. Life is more of practical than theory.

Im a realist, i hardly believe in theories anyways.

The thread focused on biblical instructions, thus the question which one should come first, love or submission? You are bringing a new angle to this entirely to this by mentioning money and authority and i do not think the op sought for the diversion.

Practically, you are right that submission/love is a product of money authority in the real world to an extent especially in our part of the world but again i have to remind you that the op was strictly speaking or asking biblically which should come first and it was on that context that i made my inititial comment on this thread

shizzle11:
for the sake of those trying to outsmart themselves and clarity, please tell us are you talking about a husband/wife relationship or parent-to-child rship? thanks

lmao. I was only trying to help you see the implications of your generalisation. No vex.

Oahray: that's the condition bro. Look at the big picture.

then any random human love doesn't exist at all because we are all Evil.

Oahray: smh... Submission is as much a part of all facets of life and relationships as much as love is. It's present before marriage and during marriage. Your point is that if you love someone, you'd always submit to the person. My point is that love is not the reason people submit.

Let's even pretend marriage has unique psychological rules that doesn't apply elsewhere. Does this mean that every husband who loves his wife would submit to her?

Not exactly!

My point is chances are higher that someone who loves you will submit to you more than someone who submits to you would love you.

Reason being that someone loves you simply cos of love ie sometimes some inexplicable reasons, but someone submits to you simply cos the person is scared, intimidated, threat etc and not because of personal will to submit

shizzle11:
Im a realist, i hardly believe in theories anyways.

The thread focused on biblical instructions, thus the question which one should come first, love or submission? You are bringing a new angle to this entirely to this by mentioning money and authority and i do not think the op sought for the diversion.

Practically, you are right that submission/love is a product of money authority in the real world to an extent especially in our part of the world but again i have to remind you that the op was strictly speaking or asking biblically which should come first and it was on that context that i made my inititial comment on this thread

she simply quoted the Bible to show that it is necessary for a husband to love his wife and for a wife to be submissive in contrast to the attitudes described above it.

The first part of the op is talking of what is obtainable in practice. The chicken and egg situation (if both depend on each other, which comes first) of this first part is what gives rise to her question, not the verses she quoted.

The Bible merely set rules for each partner in no particular order. There's no where in the context of those verses that shows that both are linked and that one must be a result of the other. So when I try to bring in all practical factors that influence submission and insist love doesn't play a big role, what's my offence?

Oahray: she simply quoted the Bible to show that it is necessary for a husband to love his wife and for a wife to be submissive in contrast to the attitudes described above it.

The first part of the op is talking of what is obtainable in practice. The chicken and egg situation (if both depend on each other, which comes first) of this first part is what gives rise to her question, not the verses she quoted.

The Bible merely set rules for each partner in no particular order. There's no where in the context of those verses that shows that both are linked and that one must be a result of the other. So when I try to bring in all practical factors that influence submission and insist love doesn't play a big role, what's my offence?

The emphases should be on husband /wife rship but you digressed a bit. However i agree with those practical factor that influence submission. Love on its own does not equate or bring about submission, but I'm saying maybe to an extent it does

Mettal: then any random human love doesn't exist at all because we are all Evil.

lolz... Random human love exists o. There are instances of people who risk their lives to save strangers, just because they can't stand and watch or walk away. But it's not common. The average human is selfish by default.

Sophyrocks:
Good communication skills in a Sham of a Marriage? You must be kidding right? Hahahahahaha. Come on!! That is one thing scamish marriages lack. When everybody in it is selfish about what they are to get, who gives a damn about communication skills? All they say is 'Give me Give me Give me. Kpomkwem.
You dnt want Love or cant give love but you want good communcation? How is that possible without love in the union? You cant eat your cake and have it. Dnt expect good comunication when there is no love. No be you no want Love. God help you if your pockets run dry. Your golddigging wife will turn to a wh0re under your nose.

Ever heard of the phrase "Love happens to those who believe in it"? alot who believe in it are gaining a lot of its fruits. They are already living in that fantasy world in REALITY. Your lot won't get it cos you do not practise it. Love is practised for it to exist.

Oh well, goodluck in your sham of a marriage. Whatever makes you sleep well at night.

hey, have you heard.Of contract marriage? Secondly,people interact successfully with themselvea without love,in finances people maintain a very good spirit without love too. I have a female friend who am actually going to marry,. Yes she is special to me,but am sure She is in (affection) "love" with me, i have a deep respect for her in all spheres of life and to me she is my best friend.and with the rythm and tempo we are going,that will be a very succesful marriage because of the leadership quality i put in the relationship and which she compromised by being submissive to me. yet Am 100% aware that the so called love is conditional,ie when the chips are down she'll definately leave just like every other human, people are in there for what they stand to gain,but the celestial love from God is Unconditional.

Oahray: lolz... Random human love exists o. There are instances of people who risk their lives to save strangers, just because they can't stand and watch or walk away. But it's not common. The average human is selfish by default.

compassion and love are not the same, oo

shizzle11:
The emphases should be on husband /wife rship but you digressed a bit. However i agree with those practical factor that influence submission. Love on its own does not equate or bring about submission, but I'm saying maybe to an extent it does

ok o. There's always a big picture, and until we look at the big picture, we might never get the answers we need. Have a great day bro.

Mettal: hey, have you heard.Of contract marriage? Secondly,people interact successfully with themselvea without love,in finances people maintain a very good spirit without love too. I have a female friend who am actually going to marry,. Yes she is special to me, but am sure She is in (affection) "love" with me, i have a deep respect for her in all spheres of life and to me she is my best friend and with the rythm and tempo we are going,that will be a very succesful marriage because of the leadership quality i put in the relationship and which she compromised by being submissive to me. yet Am 100% aware that the so called love is conditional,ie when the chips are down she'll definately leave just like every other human, people are in there for what they stand to gain,but the celestial love from God is Unconditional.

At the bolded, how is it possble that you see your fiancee as these you have mentioned yet you are claiming not to love her or intend not to love her? You are clearly contradicting yourself. You already LOVE this woman for you to talk about she being your friend, she being special to you , you havng DEEP RESPECT and yet you are here talking about Contract Marriage? Do you even know what you are saying at all? Maybe you dnt know what love is.

Sophyrocks:
At the bolded, how is it possble that you see your fiancee as these you have mentioned yet you are claiming not to love her or intend not to love her? You are clearly contradicting yourself. You already LOVE this woman for you to talk about she being your friend, she being special to you , you havng DEEP RESPECT and yet you are here talking about Contract Marriage? Do you even know what you are saying at all? Maybe you dnt know what love is.

i have deep respect for anyone,and most times respects are earned or tarnished,.Respect do not signify love. Please when has AFFECTION turned to LOVE .Did i mentioned we are indulging in contract marriage? Was stressing its reality,have you heard of open marriage too?. These are alternative marriages that can thrive without love.Very possible!

Oahray: ok o. There's always a big picture, and until we look at the big picture, we might never get the answers we need. Have a great day bro.

Enjoy your day bruv!

Mettal: i have deep respect for anyone,and most times respects are earned or tarnished,.Respect do not signify love. Please when has AFFECTION turned to LOVE. Did i mentioned we are indulging in contract marriage? Was stressing its reality,have you heard of open marriage too?. These are alternative marriages that can thrive without love.Very possible!

Ohhhhhhhh. You are clearly confused. Are you a christian? do you remember when jesus asked peter 'Peter, do you Love me? And peter said 'Lord, you know i have affection for you?' Please what does that tell you that Love is?

Chai!!

Love between brothers and friends are different. Love between a male and female is different. Affection is the main ingredient in love. You take a female to be special. You see this lady as the one to spend your life with. You take her as your best friend. My friend, you are in LOVE with this woman. Stop confusing yourself.

Lets agree to disgree here biko.

And yes, im aware of the the dfferent forms of marriage. You mentioned contract marriage because you said you never wanted love. Yet you are already practising that love and you want the benefits that come with it. So why contradict yourself?

Mettal: compassion and love is not the same, oo

no they aren't. If you feel pity or sympathy, it's compassion. That's where it ends, as a feeling. You don't necessarily have to act on it. If you act on it, when it's very inconvenient or involves great sacrifice, without an eye on rewards, it's love. But we are derailing.

Sophyrocks:
Ohhhhhhhh. You are clearly confused. Are you a christian? do you remember when jesus asked peter 'Peter, do you Love me? And peter said 'Lord, you know i have affection for you?' Please what does that tell you that Love is?

Chai!!

Love between brothers and friends are different. Love between a male and female is different. Affection is the main ingredient in love. You take a female to be special. You see this lady as the one to spend your life with. You take her as your best friend. My friend, you are in LOVE with this woman. Stop confusing yourself.

Lets agree to disgree here biko.

And yes, im aware of the the dfferent forms of marriage. You mentioned contract marriage because you said you never wanted love. Yet you are already practising that love and you want the benefits that come with it. So why contradict yourself?

you are one headstrong dude...... Sorry .We are all wrong,.Lol. Love exists,(yes those fake ones) but the unconditional Love doesnt exists. Now lets disagree to agree.

ihedinobi2: It "should not" be conditional o...


But it is, in fact We love God because He first loved us. And as we to God so the woman to the man.

If men are truly the leaders the Bible makes them out to be, their love should come first. The man's love is what the woman responds to with her submission.

Thank God you are a guy so those who get high on feminists can take a break

If marriage is likened to the relationship between Christ and the Church, the answer is glaring.

Mettal: you are one headstrong dude...... Sorry .We are all wrong,.Lol. Love exists,(yes those fake ones) but the unconditional Love doesnt exists. Now lets disagree to agree.

Sorry, im a lady. . Lets agree to disagree.

Crystalline: A man says...I don't love my wife because she is not submissive perhaps if she were submissive, i'd have loved her.


A woman says...I am not submissive to my husband because he doesn't love me, if he had shown me love, i'd have been submissive.


Ephesians 5:22...wives be submissive to your husbands as unto the LORD

Ephesians 5:25...husbands love your wives just as CHRIST loves the church.

Now my question is "which should come first...LOVE or SUBMISSION?"

Your honest views are welcome.

See how the Bible arranged it: 5:22 says Submit, 5:25 says Love. On the part of the woman, she's got to exhibit both. The man has got to Love and care.

Oahray: one day you'd read this post and laugh at yourself. No love is unconditional, not even a mother's love.

Well my mother's love for me was unconditional till she died and my father's love is still. I looked/look at them and see nothing but unconditional love, Even with all my mess.
And if u noticed I said pure love.

Oahray: if as you say, love cannot exist without submission, but submission can exist without love, how come you say submission follows love naturally?

Your premise is greatly flawed anyway. Love doesn't not make one submissive, else parents would be submissive to their children. Submission simply comes from the acceptance (conscious or subconscious) that someone else is superior. Submission is a natural reaction to either fear or respect.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%205&version=KJV

According to the bolded, who is inferior/superior?

So many guys here cant love a woman who is not submissive. Talk about narcissism.

Crystalline: A man says...I don't love my wife because she is not submissive perhaps if she were submissive, i'd have loved her.


A woman says...I am not submissive to my husband because he doesn't love me, if he had shown me love, i'd have been submissive.


Ephesians 5:22...wives be submissive to your husbands as unto the LORD

Ephesians 5:25...husbands love your wives just as CHRIST loves the church.

Now my question is "which should come first...LOVE or SUBMISSION?"

Your honest views are welcome.

Male headship is a very controversial issue in our modern society, this can be for the following reasons:

1. We don't understand the concept of servant-leadership;
2. We don't like patriachial societies because of our modern ways of valuing the worth of the individual;
3. We're confused by the bible's paradoxical way of asserting male headship in some passages and equality in others.

In relation to your question, male headship should address a kind of leadership which serves the needs of others in a self-giving way.
Our modern society rejects authority, yet seeks power.

The husband is to act in sacrificial, self-giving love toward his wife, who then voluntarily submit, just as the example set by Jesus of true headship in relationship to the church and true servanthood (submission) to God the Father.

The husband should at all times set the spiritual atmosphere inthe home by continuing to love his wife as Christ loved the church. This was a radically positive statement in its day, but unfortunately in our day the whole passage seems negative because it reflects the theological concept of male headship in home (Gen 3.16; 1Cor 11.3; 2 Tim 2.13). However, christian husbands are servant-leaders, not bosses.

@Oahray,

Bible defines love in 1 Cor 13: 4 - 7 as:

4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud

5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged.

6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.

7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians+13&version=NLT

What is submission?

shizzle11:
for the sake of those trying to outsmart themselves and clarity, please tell us are you talking about a husband/wife relationship or parent-to-child rship? thanks

I'm talking husbsand/wife relationship

Sophyrocks:
Sorry, im a lady. . Lets agree to disagree.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give to you Ladie Sophie,love consultant and advisor.

bia OP, when did Submission become an option?

its Love all the way oh!!!

even control freaks aka wives will submit oh!!