Ibime:

I can offer some contributions. . . . . Thank God I live in Europe. . . .

Do you know that America spends more than twice as much per person as Britain does on Healthcare?. . . .  does the free market really reduce prices as far as health is concerned?. . the evidence would suggest not. . private healthcare is on average £40 a month for gold cover in Britain. . . . . . how much do you guys pay again?. . . . the fact is that public healthcare brings down the price of private healthcare in Britain. . . . whilst a fully privatised Healthcare allows costs to roam wild. . . . this is an indirect taxation on the American people. . . . drugs are more expensive in USA. . . . infact, everything to do with health is. . . . it is obvious that your model isn't working.

The fact is that insurance companies are skimming away money that should all be put into the Healthcare system. . . . .on average, how much Insurance is actually spent on Healthcare. . . . I can bet you 40% of that money does not go toward health costs. . . . this is simple Mathematics. . . . in Britain, we pay a certain amount of tax for our Healthcare. . . . all of that money is spent on Health. . . . in America, you pay for Healthcare and insurance companies skim off 40% as profits on their balance sheet. . . . who is making sense here?. . . .to me, this is just another tax, and a heafty uneccessary one at that. . . .no wonder you guys always complain about Medicaid. . . . the fact is that if you take away the free market, universal Healthcare becomes cheaper. . . . . I repeat, Medicaid is not the true cost of Universal Healthcare. . . . under Universal Healthcare, you will pay less in "tax apportioned for healthcare" than you do for your premium.


Annual healthcare spending per capita

. . . . . . so much for creating a free market for a public good. . . .Britain’s NHS has, without fear of challenge, one distinction. It is the best-buy model of health care in the Western world in the sense that it manages to offer a comprehensive coverage of the entire population at the least cost as measured by the proportion of the national income devoted to health care. . . . http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/4/1/41.pdf . . . Yankee need to catch up to Europe. . . . that's why British conservatives, including Margaret Thatcher support health care as an absolute right of citizenry

My brother it's not how much you pay but how much you get to keep afterwards.
The average professional in America is better paid than his counterpart in Britain.
The same NHS where people pafuka like chicken while waiting to be seen by a doctor or waiting in line for their surgeries.
Carry una Europe go.
why are people running from there to here including professionals when they win visa lotteries?
I lived in Europe,I now live in the USA
let me pay for my health care and know that I call my doctor now and go in to see him in an hour's time
You can't pay me to move to England for anything.
Nothing free is that good.
we have community health centers and "general hospitals" here too

i disagree, england is a far better society than the US. i've lived in both just this yr, healthcare is a right. a fundamental human right and not a privilege. in england everybody, repeat, everybody is covered.

now how do you measure healthcare? mortality rates, so BabyO, forget the nonsense ur US media are feeding u, fact is that the US has a higher rate of infant mortality, maternal mortality, under-five mortality than most advanced countries. the UK has one of the least. these are the fundamentals of healthcare.

of what use are the best healthcare facilities in the world if one cant use it? and inspite of the problems of NHS, the long lines, waiting lists etc, fact is, if there is an emergency there is immediate medical attention, those waiting lists u talk about are some not too urgent conditions and non emergency surgeries such as renal transplant, fibromyoma lumpectomies etc. emergency cases are gives immediate attention.

in the US there are no long waiting lists b/c millions of americans cant afford to go to the hospitals to seek medical attention. many of them just stay at home to die. now for you, that is just a statistic, but if it were ur own blood relative, it will be a disaster. for me, it is a disaster, relative or no relative.

now Tosh hear me out.
Have you heard of community health centers?
Every one with no or little income can go there and be seen for almost nothing.
and you are not turned away from the emergency rooms either.
I have lived in England.
You say everyone is covered,that's not true.
are the illegal immigrants covered?
there are tons of them remember.
here they are not either by medicaid which is the equivalent of your NHS but they can go and register at a community health clinic and get a physical for $20.

Lmao people that stay in this country for like 2 mins think they know all that needs to be known. Rofl. It's funny.

abegi go back to licking your monarchy's behind and leave our election alone

Like osisi said community health centers are cheap and they give full physicals for less than $25

I'll rather live here,pay for my health care and get paid a salary where I can live comfortably than that hell hole called Britain where hardworking professionals live in face me I face you apartments and call them homes then queue up with pick pocketing Eastern Europeans,Homeless Jamaicans and  419 Pakis to see Dr Patel whether I like him or not.
He is my GP,my neighborhood GP and I'm stuck with him and his colleagues.
No way that's better.

KarmaMod:

Lmao people that stay in this country for like 2 mins think they know all that needs to be known. Rofl. It's funny.

abegi go back to licking your monarchy's behind and leave our election alone

Like osisi said community health centers are cheap and they give full physicals for less than $25

My folks come here very often and they undergo full physicals and blood work with EKG sef.
mom would even have a mammogram.
and they are not even green card holders
There are programs here that folks can go to
and they are everywhere.

well, i agree that i've been in the US for only 2 mins and dont know much about the US
i agree i did not know about the community health centers

BabyO, why bring my marriage into this? anyway, i came here for the sake of love. i love my fiancee' and after a heavy debate in which she vehemently refused to stay in the UK, and i didnt want to loose the rlshp i decided to move over. 6 months 2mins in the US i'm yet to be convinced I did the right thing. but that's my opinion, with the problems i'm having with her now, dont be surprised if you hear that toshmann is back to britain. but that's my opinion.

may be it's ohio that i hate, may be it's new jersey that i hate, or may be it's the whole damned US, or perhaps i'm yet to adjust and i'm having some adjustment disorder. whatever. i'll prefer the uk anytime

back to healthcare, i'll get some links later to show u what i said earlier, by those measurements, the US has a less effective healthcare than the UK. i.e US has higher infant mortality, under five mortality, maternal mortality etc than the UK. i'll get evidence later.

I apologise let me modify

apology fully accepted

make i go find bread chop,
by the way, u do any moi-moi today?

toshmann:

apology fully accepted

make i go find bread chop,
by the way, u do any moi-moi today?

you don begin work?
abeg don't give up on madam to be yet
we women can be stubborn sometimes.

my oga is looking for a post doc.Do you have a PHD in Biochemistry or Microbiology?

Tayo-D:

@Ibime,

You didn't addrress the issue I raised. Is healthcare a constitutional right? We know of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Through the first ammendment, we talk about the right to free speech. So under what constituion is health care regarded as a constitutional right?

Who cares what the constitution says? At the time of the constitution, people were still keeping slaves. The world has moved on from 19 kporodimkpom.

plus_Queen:

you don begin work?
abeg don't give up on madam to be yet
we women can be stubborn sometimes.

not yet, just got my work permit, and applied for my social security number, anyway i'll start work b4 xmas, but i really need to settle some harsh marital issues now with my fiancee. we are having a very difficult time and the relationship is almost hitting the rocks(perhaps the real reason why i was irritated when u mentioned my rlshp )
seriously considering leaving the states by middle of next yr  (for social reasons)  well, still praying.

if God pleases, i may do my wedding next spring and remain. if that doesnt happen, i'm out. for good.

hey, karmamood, . . nice photos in ur profile

plus_Queen:

my oga is looking for a post doc.Do you have a PHD in Biochemistry or Microbiology?

see toshmann see phd  nne wetin u think say mwa mama be?  
i have a masters in public health though, but i'm really more interested in stabilising my relationship now than trying to settle down. from my heart, i'm not sure i'll be able to remain in the US if my marriage fails. the pain would be too much. i'll have to run away for some time to cool off and forget things and re-build my life

Toshmann, well said. . . .I thought you were a staunch Republican. . . . this is simple: America must catch up to the rest of the developed world.

plus_Queen:

My brother it's not how much you pay but how much you get to keep afterwards.
The average professional in America is better paid than his counterpart in Britain.
The same NHS where people pafuka like chicken while waiting to be seen by a doctor or waiting in line for their surgeries.
Carry una Europe go.
why are people running from there to here including professionals when they win visa lotteries?
I lived in Europe,I now live in the USA
let me pay for my health care and know that I call my doctor now and go in to see him in an hour's time
You can't pay me to move to England for anything.
Nothing free is that good.
we have community health centers and "general hospitals" here too

My sister, you can have private healthcare here as well, nothing is stopping you. . . my girlfriend has a plan and I would get one too, except that I never fall ill. . . . like I said, the price here is cheaper. . . . from £30 - £50 for gold cover. . . . this is because we have not allowed the market to run away with itself. . . . like Obama said yesterday, having Universal Healthcare will actually reduce the price of Private healthcare. . . . that is witnessed in Europe. . . . on top of that, everyone is covered, so you never hear horror stories like you do in Yankee. . . . .this is a country that cares for it's citizens.

@tayo-D
healthcare is a fundamental human right. (not just a constitutional right) and also, it is a moral issue. also u talk of the right to life, what is life without good health? i'll tell you, torture.

Ibime:

Toshmann, well said. . . .I thought you were a staunch Republican. . . . this is simple: America must catch up to the rest of the developed world.


My sister, you can have private healthcare here as well, nothing is stopping you. . . my girlfriend has a plan and I would get one too, except that I never fall ill. . . . like I said, the price here is cheaper. . . . from £30 - £50 for gold cover. . . . this is because we have not allowed the market to run away with itself. . . . like Obama said yesterday, having Universal Healthcare will actually reduce the price of Private healthcare. . . . that is witnessed in Europe. . . . on top of that, everyone is covered, so you never hear horror stories like you do in Yankee. . . . .that is a country that cares for it's citizens.

ibime, i am a republican at heart. based on the moral issue of life and my anti abortion stand. my biggest problem with democrats. that same moral issue governs my disdain for gay behaviour. without hating gay people i believe sociewty should not encourage such sexual orientations, these same moral issues extend to healthcare. i'm a staunch believer of universal healthcare. perhaps if u watch somebody die, u'll appreciate life better.i have watched people die, people have died in front of me b4. u dont want to have that experience

@ibime,

Who cares what the constitution says? At the time of the constitution, people were still keeping slaves. The world has moved on from 19 kporodimkpom.

It is the blatant neglect of the constitution that has brought the US to the brink of economic ruin that we find ourselves right now. Thrashing the constitution is not the answer at all. Does the constituion promote slavery? What part of the Bill of rights promotes it? Please share with us.

@toshman,

healthcare is a fundamental human right. (not just a constitutional right) and also, it is a moral issue. also u talk of the right to life, what is life without good health? i'll tell you, torture.

Do you understand the implications of your statement? That means the govt has the right to deprive me from buying a home so long as they can prove the money should be used to meet someone else's health needs. Rights are enforced by the govt and this will only give the govt the powers to do and undo just so as to meet someone's health requrments.

Let me give you another scenario. Claiming health as a right will make the govt determine what you put in your fridge at home and what you eat udner the pretext of sustaining your right to good health. You are talking about something bigger and greater than you can ever imagine.

Tosh my dear.
Marriage is serious business.
In my books once in always in.
So if any doubts,toro udo as we say in Igboland.
better now than later.
But I pray God will straighten things out and make it clear to you whether to go along or back out.
But from the way you sound,if you were my own younger brother,I'll ask you to have a serious thought about it.
The worst thing that can happen is for you to go ahead then find out much later after a kid or two that this was a terrible mistake.
You'll forever blame yourself for not having the courage to say No when you felt that way.

Tayo-D:

@ibime,
It is the blatant neglect of the constitution that has brought the US to the brink of economic ruin that we find ourselves right now. Thrashing the constitution is not the answer at all. Does the constituion promote slavery? What part of the Bill of rights promotes it? Please share with us.

@toshman,
Do you understand the implications of your statement? That means the govt has the right to deprive me from buying a home so long as they can prove the money should be used to meet someone else's health needs. Rights are enforced by the govt and this will only give the govt the powers to do and undo just so as to meet someone's health requrments.

Let me give you another scenario. Claiming health as a right will make the govt determine what you put in your fridge at home and what you eat udner the pretext of sustaining your right to good health. You are talking about something bigger and greater than you can ever imagine.

@tayo-d
u are talking crap. or to be polite, i dont get what u are trying to say. are u saying the govt has to deprive u of ur home b4 they grant somebody his healthcare? u talked of the right to life, did the govt deny u ur home b4 somebody is allowed to be alive in the US? what the f--k are u talking about?

healthcare is a fundamental human right. life without health is hell. govt does not have to push u out of ur home to build good roads, good schools, good stadium, good shopping malls, good govt offices, good airports, good electoral systems, good military, good police, good judiciary, good fire dept, good postal services, good coast guard, good etc etc etc  . ,  . why in God's name should govt deny u ur home to have universal healthcare. what is wrong with you? why cant u argue with ur brain. this is not about obama and mccain and if it's what is in ur mind, it may interest u that I Toshmann, am a McCain supporter and republican at heart. if i become an american citixen, i'll register as a republican.
however, i am talking healthcare now, not politics. so keep ur home, the govt has no business taking ur home just to give healthcare coverage to it's people.

plus_Queen:

Tosh my dear.
Marriage is serious business.
In my books once in always in.
So if any doubts,toro udo as we say in Igboland.
better now than later.
But I pray God will straighten things out and make it clear to you whether to go along or back out.
But from the way you sound,if you were my own younger brother,I'll ask you to have a serious thought about it.
The worst thing that can happen is for you to go ahead then find out much later after a kid or two that this was a terrible mistake.
You'll forever blame yourself for not having the courage to say No when you felt that way.

yea, this is so comforting, coming from u especially. i'm expecting some money from my UK account, once i get it, i'll pay for some marriage councelling with my girl.
i have dated so many girls in my life. . . all for sex . . yeah, but i never knew that love is a different thing. and marriage is an even much different issue. nobody councilled me, nobody really adviced me well. i felt i was old enough, educated enough etc to know what to do. but i guess i was wrong. also, i forgot i was nigerian. and my marriage is a nigerian one, with its culture, i was looking at my british colleagues and how their marriage was going, but i'm african, my culture is different. anyway, we will go for marriage councilling next month and we see what happens then. we also booked an appointment with a catholic priest to see if we can improve based on his advice.

e go better, lol. BabyO, we have distorted this thread . . . with marital issue . .

@thread followers, abeg sorry o

@toshman,

I think this is where you need to use your brain. You have to know that a human right cannot be trampled upon by another person. Putting it succintly, "your right ends, where mine begins." If your getting a luxury deprives me of my human right, then I have the right to sue you and have the govt enforce my human right. If health care is a human right, then the govt can take my money and my house away from me just so as to pay for your health care. Afterall, why should have have a luxury when your human right is not secured? Please use your head and not abuse others of such.

Tayo-D:

Do you understand the implications of your statement? That means the govt has the right to deprive me from buying a home so long as they can prove the money should be used to meet someone else's health needs.

If we do a cost analysis, you would find that you would be able to pay tax toward healthcare and still have full private insurance without spending an extra penny. . . . like I showed you, your private healthcare cost will go down.

Tayo-D:

Let me give you another scenario. Claiming health as a right will make the govt determine what you put in your fridge at home and what you eat udner the pretext of sustaining your right to good health. You are talking about something bigger and greater than you can ever imagine.

Come on man. . . . we have had social healthcare for ages here. . . no one has ever told us what we can and can't eat. . . . you are scaremongering again. . . . too much Fox News skews your World view. . . . you need ask your neighbours the Canadians whether Govt places any restrictions on their way of life instead of giving us scaremongering propaganda. . . sometimes, I wonder what world you live in. . . . the constitution does not provide for free education either but we have it now. . . constitutions are amended all the time. . . the constitution was simply written for its day and age, just like the Bible. . . . we live in a different world now. . . .

@Ibime,

If we do a cost analysis, you would find that you would be able to pay tax toward healthcare and still have full private insurance without spending an extra penny. . . . like I showed you, your private healthcare cost will go down.

Please go ahead with your cost analysis. I will be happy to look at real figures.

Come on man. . . . we have had social healthcare for ages here. . . no one has ever told us what we can and can't eat. . . . you are scaremongering again. . . . too much Fox News skews your World view. . . .

Scaremongering? I am telling you of what is even going on today. Employers and Insurance companies are now making your health their private business. People are receiving calls from their insurance companies telling them they either have to lose weight or lose their insurance. NBow imagine such powers in the hands of the govt. By the way, I can't remeber when last I wastched Fox News. I do not even subsribe to the channel on my cable.

you need ask your neighbours the Canadians whether Govt places any restrictions on their way of life instead of giving us scaremongering propaganda. . . sometimes, I wonder what world you live in. . . .

I live in a world where I see the govt as a force for evil if not curtailed. The govt hardly do their jobs well and yet we want to give them more power over what they shouldn't be involved in?

the constitution does not provide for free education either but we have it now. . . constitutions are amended all the time. . . the constitution was simply written for its day and age, just like the Bible. . . . we live in a different world now. . . .

So do not claim it is a constitutional right as Obama implied that health is. You can claim it as a social issue and address it as such, but not as a constitutional right. By the way, your view of the Bible is way-off.

dont mind the guy, here we are talking about healthcare and he jumps to govt taking over his house and determining what he keeps in his fridge

where do i start to reason with such a person? anyway, if i kinda insulted u, i wthdraw the insulting statement and tender my unalloyyed apologies. however my basic point remains unchanged, nobody has stopped the canadians from having houses and enjoying a high standard of living. nobody has stopped the british from enjoying their lives. yet there is free healthcare in these societies.

tayo-d, govt does not have to take ur home or dictate ur fridge to do what it is supposed to do.  a healthier america = a healthier tayo-d. did u know that? now see this . . . if ur tax is increased a little bit to improve healthcare, u still have ur home and food(looks like u like food a lot . . i do) and then ur fellow americans are healthier. healthier americans means more americans working and paying taxes and more money for US govt for roads, schools etc

if u refuse that, hold ur home and food, all alone, ur friends are sick they cant pay healthcare. know what happens? they cant work--------> they join welfare--------> govt taxes u more to raise money to maintain welfare or govt spends more money to maitain them on welfare, this means govt takes money that would have been spent on security(e.g)------> less spending on security= increased crime rate in that ur neighbourhood and that ur home and fridge wont be safe anymore . . . . etc etc etc

in summary, society is always better if everybody has good healthcare and this will benefit u and ur home and food.

@toshman,

Apologies accepted, and I tender my own too.

Here is an artile I just came across. I like the following the most - "Our founding fathers had a clear understanding of the inherent nature of rights, and of the fundamental difference between rights and entitlements. They understood that the pursuit of happiness was an individual quest, and that the outcome was not guaranteed by any government program or agency. They recognized that by exercising one’s right to freedom of expression, no cost or burden is imposed on any other individual or group.

When we declare that healthcare is a right, however, we automatically create a corresponding obligation on someone else’s part to provide it." http://chrisberryonthe.net/2008/03/25/healthcare-is-not-a-right/

Tayo-D:

Please go ahead with your cost analysis. I will be happy to look at real figures.

Such cost analysis cannot be carried out at this stage. It depends on the strength of Govt regulation to rein in overinflated drug prices. Rest assured, if health is in the hands of the Government, all these soaring costs will be reined in. We only have to look at the costs in countries that have Social HealthCare and compare to US prices to know that US Government is letting companies set their own prices on drugs. Do you remember when [i]D[/i]ick Cheney blocked the move to reduce drug prices for poor countries at the UN? Brazil threatened to break copyright law and create cheap generic versions of the drugs themselves. That just goes to show that drug prices are artificially inflated. Govt can easily find ways to reduce prices without discouraging innovation and invention of new drugs. In that respect, Govt should take the lead in drug research.

Tayo-D:

Scaremongering? I am telling you of what is even going on today. Employers and Insurance companies are now making your health their private business. People are receiving calls from their insurance companies telling them they either have to lose weight or lose their insurance.

That just highlights the fallacy of the system you live under. It is Insurance companies making sure you drop your weight and watch what you eat, not Government. They are just minimalising their risk. Their whole business is profit-oriented, not actually geared toward the genuine health of their customers. In economics, this is called "cream skimming" - the practice where private health providers only allow healthy and young people to take out premiums. . . . again, they are not working for the good of society. . . . from the experience of all the other developed countries in the World, Govt does not poke their nose into our eating habits, although they do encourage us to eat an apple a day.  

tayo, i cannot use ur constitution as a basis for my argument. ur constitution is a man made document and the people who wrote that document, dare i say, are as imperfect as i am. and permit me to say, albeit audaciously, that i am more educated than the majority of the people who wrote that document. however, i humbly accept that my so called higher education/degrees does not mean that i am wiser. in summary, we are all human beings.

my argument is that healthcare is a human right. it is a moral issue and not a constitutional issue. u americans always take that ur constituiton as a holy book that is impeccable. sorry, it is not. healthcare is a right. and practically speaking, the right to life is not without a right to healthcare. i asked b4, what is life without healthcare? tell me.

i dont care what ur constitution says but any govt that stands and watches it's people die off in illness is by my assessment irresponsible to say the least. keep this argument simple. universal heathcare is a right and this does not necessarily mean that somebody else must provide it but it means that it is something that should, and dare i say, must be, in place. u have a right to life may not mean that the govt must keep u alive but it means that the govt has a duty in ensuring that u dont loose ur life unnecessarily.

similarly, right to healthcare means that the govt has a duty to ensure that u have access to good healthcare services to help alleviate ailments and maintain a state of health for all it's citizens. it is not a privilege. it is a right. it is a moral obligation. it dont matter if ur founding fathers admitted to it or not.

i love my fiancee' and after a heavy debate in which she vehemently refused to stay in the UK

Smart girl.

as for living in Ohio, I figured you'd enjoy such a hellhole after all they are mainly conservatives who hate minorities and believe they have rights over a woman's body.

abi no be your paradise be that?

Ibime and toshmann,

I thank you guys for a good job in explaining to those pretenders the fact that health care is a right.

toshmann, even though you're a Republican, you still reason with logic, something that most Republicans lack - no wonder American universities are filled with "liberal" professors. Any environment that requires logical reasoning is a toxic environment for most Republicans - their thinking faculties have been severely compromised.

@toshman,

tayo, i cannot use ur constitution as a basis for my argument. ur constitution is a man made document and the people who wrote that document, dare i say, are as imperfect as i am. and permit me to say, albeit audaciously, that i am more educated than the majority of the people who wrote that document. however, i humbly accept that my so called higher education/degrees does not mean that i am wiser. in summary, we are all human beings.

Then we are not arguing from the same point of refernce and i wonder what this discussion is all about. This issue arose out of the debate last night when Obama said health care is a constituional right. The question is whose constitution? Certainly not the United States.

my argument is that healthcare is a human right. it is a moral issue and not a constitutional issue.

If healthcare is a human right, then the US and British govt must hands off healthcare. Let healthcare be handled by the UN if it is indeed a human right. Afterall, the UN intervenes and is set up to intervene when human rights are trampled all across the world. So why would healthcare be diffrenet?

u americans always take that ur constituiton as a holy book that is impeccable. sorry, it is not.

It is that same constitutionthat gave rise to the most powerful nation ever in the history of the world. It may be imperfect, but it si more perfect than any other ever written.

healthcare is a right. and practically speaking, the right to life is not without a right to healthcare. i asked before, what is life without healthcare? tell me.

There are several things that come with life. In that case, clothing and shelter must be equally regarded as rights. You do not have a right to a shelter, neither do you have to clothing. Your government's role is to ensure that no obstacle is placed in your way to obtaining them.

i don't care what ur constitution says but any govt that stands and watches it's people die off in illness is by my assessment irresponsible to say the least.

How many times have you seen Americans dying on the streets for lack of health care? My friends were here last year to have their baby in the US, and they didn't pay much eventually. What is your point?

keep this argument simple. universal heathcare is a right and this does not necessarily mean that somebody else must provide it but it means that it is something that should, and dare i say, must be, in place.

Now you turn your arguments on its head. What Obama proposes is that the govt will provide universal healthcare and not put the means to obtain it in place. I am all for govt making the laying field level and letting the market take care of itself. That is why McCain proposes that the State boundaries need to be removed to make the field more level. Obama's is all about mandates.

u have a right to life may not mean that the govt must keep u alive but it means that the govt has a duty in ensuring that u don't loose ur life unnecessarily.

America has the best healthcare system in the world with the major pharmaceuticals also. All this without the govt mandating one thing or the other. Now we want to change that. The way the govt can ensure you do not lose your life unnecessarily is to ensure that their s no obstacle in your way to obtaining the best healthcare at the cheapest price without making you a burden to the society.

similarly, right to healthcare means that the govt has a duty to ensure that u have access to good healthcare services to help alleviate ailments and maintain a state of health for all it's citizens. it is not a privilege. it is a right. it is a moral obligation. it don't matter if ur founding fathers admitted to it or not.

You are repeating the same thing here again. Like I said before, healthcare is not a right, it is a responsibility. The govt cannot force a hospital to give you treatment, but it can force someone to not violate your rights to free speech.

These are two different things which you do not seem to understand. A right requires an obligation from others (willing or otherwise). I am not obliged to pay for your health treatment, even though I may feel morally inclined to do so. It is your responsibility to ensure you get yourself adequate health coverage, and it is the responsibility of the govt to ensure that nothing stands in your way to get the best health coverage for as cheap as is possible.

@RichyBlack,

I thank you guys for a good job in explaining to those pretenders the fact that health care is a right.

I am not too surprised y the manner in which you entered this discussion. I still believe the best of you that one day, you will learn to discuss issues without an attack on personalities.

The United Nations General Assmebly issued a Universal Declaration of Humna Rights. Please point to where it is implied implicitly or explicitly that health care is a human right!

tope2000:

McCain didn’t looked at Obama at anytime during either debate, he just won’t make eye contact at all. McCain came out strong but fizzled shortly after. But I don’t think his trademark sarcasm worked much last night. Obama showed strength during the fiscal part of the debate and that is what American’s are focused on right now. But I do agree that Buffet would probably be the best man for the job as Secretary of Treasury because it wouldn’t be about politics really it would be about saving the economy just as I believe Mayor Bloomberg has tried to accomplish for NY since 9-11.

Obama did sound exasperated when McCain accused him of being rash in threatening to invade Pakistan, but when Obama gained his composure I felt he rattled McCain. I loved when Obama called him out about America being a military superpower when our nation is in an economic shambles… touche! Obama 08

Obama is clearly the man needed to move the country forward. McSame/crypt keeper is just out of touch and quite frankly hard to watch and listen to.

How can your campaign slogan be ‘Country First’ and you choose Palin as your VP choice? That’s an oxymoron; put this country first by possibly putting an inexperienced person that close to running this country. Give me a break Mr.


I can’t wait to see the final debate Oct 15th. Count down until Nov 4th!

And na which day Tope come be Political Analyst or did u copy and paste this from somewhere

me sef i was flabbergasted