There is a difference between conscious and sub-conscious. That difference is highlighted in the dimensions between when Adam and Eve were obedient and instinctive in the garden of Eden and the aftermath of their episode when they were transformed and became adventurous and logical.

White people understand these dimensions very well and teach it to their children. We Africans and of African ancestry have remained stuck in the garden - we are still obedient and instinctive. Our power of adventure and logical pursuits is blunt.

So that everytime our consciousness encouter the mundane reality of an obstacled path, what's the first thing we do? Instead of resolving the encounter at the conscious level we escape back into the subconscious and reach for the Bible and the Koran and whatever else scripture we believe in and seek divine answers and dogmas to shield ourselves.

Please keep your faith and religion and dogmas out of political discourse. We are not talking about God or Jesus, we are talking about social and political issues at the conscious dimension of humanity.

@Negro_Nts,

We are not talking about God or Jesus, we are talking about social and political issues at the conscious dimension of humanity.

I think this is the first time I've witnessed you write something I totally find outrageous. The reason we do not bring religion into this discourse is because of the rules of the forum. It has nothing to do with the impracticability of one's faith to real life issues. Afterall, what is religion if their is no impact on our day to day life.

I will encourage Darfur to desist not only because he is breaking the rules of this forum, but because he was totally wrong in his submission. I cannot disagree more with the balderdash he wrote about Democratic ideologies being more godly than the Republicans', at least based on biblical principles.

@Negro_Ntns

Seriously?? Those on both sides have religious ideologies in their manifestos. Then you come around saying no one should talk about religion as relates to the present political discourse. Why? Because you say so? Religion has shaped a few policies in the US. Several people support parties based solely on religious conviction.  If people want to bring up religion as it relates to the present political issues, let them. You can stick to your more important topics.

Negro_Ntns:

There is a difference between conscious and sub-conscious. That difference is highlighted in the dimensions between when Adam and Eve were obedient and instinctive in the garden of Eden and the aftermath of their episode when they were transformed and became adventurous and logical.

White people understand these dimensions very well and teach it to their children. We Africans and of African ancestry have remained stuck in the garden - we are still obedient and instinctive. Our power of adventure and logical pursuits is blunt.

Africans are obedient?? Whites are not instinctive?? Where do you live?? Because the above thinking reeks of narrowminded generalization.

Negro_Ntns:

There is a difference between conscious and sub-conscious. That difference is highlighted in the dimensions between when Adam and Eve were obedient and instinctive in the garden of Eden and the aftermath of their episode when they were transformed and became adventurous and logical.

White people understand these dimensions very well and teach it to their children. We Africans and of African ancestry have remained stuck in the garden - we are still obedient and instinctive. Our power of adventure and logical pursuits is blunt.

So that everytime our consciousness encouter the mundane reality of an obstacled path, what's the first thing we do? Instead of resolving the encounter at the conscious level we escape back into the subconscious and reach for the Bible and the Koran and whatever else scripture we believe in and seek divine answers and dogmas to shield ourselves.

Please keep your faith and religion and dogmas out of political discourse. We are not talking about God or Jesus, we are talking about social and political issues at the conscious dimension of humanity.

Do you know what you're talking about? Do you understand US politics? Do you appreciate the influence of religion, good or bad, on US politics?

Oh boy, make you no dey come here dey yarn that kin opata, I take Olodumare beg you.

Tayo-D:

@RichyBlack,
The declaration of independence clearly says that govt must be through the consent of the people. That is a reference to voting. The will of the people must be expressed by how the govt is constituted. It is God-endowed because it directly relates to freedom. Freedom of association as well as freedom of choice. These are God-given because it promotes a man's will and not suppress it.
No doubt it is one way to promote B. However, when I am forced to pay for a social welfare, then it violates my human right. What I disagree with is this. You may promote B by funding it, but give me the choice to contribute to that funding or not. If Obama says today that he will provide Universal Healthcare on one premise; that only those who are willing should contribute to it, I will support him fully. Going that route secures my right while promoting a social welfare. Did you hear during the debate when he said he will force parents to buy insurance for their kids? Do you realise he will be fining those who don't? Do you think the govt knows what is best for your childrn more than you do?

Am pained i couldnt follow this debate, i am unable to take it point by point but will start from your own statement in bold. That statement alone has weakened your arguement, Richy raised a very important issue of semantics and interpretations, the word inferred you used there took more than 200 years for that right to be realised and not until the civil disobedience and civil rights had fought enough battles, must we wait another 200 years before we can see that citizens right to basic health care should be a right. Fillibuster after fillibuster the voting act was thrown away.

Please Tayo i really don't know where to start if in 2008 we are debating seriously whether health care is a right or not, its like voting rights to blacks in 1776. The declaration and constitution are fluid documents in their interpretations its the intent and principles that are static.

We can go on and on, interpretations here, semantics there, the simple test is this. Tayo if you couldnt afford a good health insurance what views would you hold? Honestly

Nobody wants a govt that the powers aint checked the legislature already ensures that, so this notion of big govt and all is just politics, Bush govt is massive, the difference between Obama and McCain spending plans is so minimal i don't get it, i can't imagine a president that would be worse that Bush in taking unilateral decisions.

Its just like the man that could vote in 1900 he just couldnt be bothered if others couldnt vote.

anybody who thinks religion is separated from US politics is delusional. i go to church and i hear pastors talking about the politics of the day and candidates, i turn to religious tv and i hear of one candidate or the other.

@darfur

perhaps we are following different religions, my God wont allow abortion. do you know what abortion is? it is murder. termination of life. do you know what life is? human life is sacrosanct. God gives life and you have no right whatsoever b4 God to terminate even ur own life, how much more that of unborn babies. it is a delight to see pallin carrying her special baby around. some women would do away with such b4 they are born. she kept hers.

read ur bible, where does God tolerate homosexuality. this is the very reason why sodom and gomorah were eliminated forever. and u are here talking of their human rights. what nonsense. they want to re-define marriage. i think america the democrats have gone too far. say what u like about bush, God may have been with him. u never know. otherwise tell me how such a dumbo could win an election in a bad economic yr against an intellectual like kerry?

i am a republican and i have no regrets

toshmann:

anybody who thinks religion is separated from US politics is delusional. i go to church and i hear pastors talking about the politics of the day and candidates, i turn to religious tv and i hear of one candidate or the other.

@darfur

perhaps we are following different religions, my God wont allow abortion. do you know what abortion is? it is murder. termination of life. do you know what life is? human life is sacrosanct. God gives life and you have no right whatsoever before God to terminate even ur own life, how much more that of unborn babies. it is a delight to see pallin carrying her special baby around. some women would do away with such before they are born. she kept hers.

read ur bible, where does God tolerate homosexuality. this is the very reason why sodom and gomorah were eliminated forever. and u are here talking of their human rights. what nonsense. they want to re-define marriage. i think america the democrats have gone too far. say what u like about bush, God may have been with him. u never know. otherwise tell me how such a dumbo could win an election in a bad economic yr against an intellectual like kerry?

i am a republican and i have no regrets

So who said God tolerates homosexuality. Which democrats?? at the last count Conservative holy Palin and Biden agreed on the issue.

Your post smacks of extreme bigotry, please spare us the Sodom gist and God being with Bush. Am shocked at such logic extreme intellectual laziness, so God is with Yar Adua and even Robert Mugabe. Are you sure u are born again at all. This perception that some-how republicans are better christains and pursue the tenents of the bible is fallacy. Those that allow that influence them tells alot of how they rationalise issues. If you are republican talk of your ideology and philisophy,  of extremely selective low taxes, high defense spending, invincible hand market mechanism and please leave God out of it.

And to the issue of abortion, God forbid someone you know is raped and gets pregnant she should carry the child, its Palin's perogative to have the child i bless God for her, she should not use the child for political purposes which is what she has done, may God have mercy on her soul.

If you want to debate do that or else please spare us the self rightoeus act. Holy Judge

away4real:

Am pained i couldnt follow this debate, i am unable to take it point by point but will start from your own statement in bold. That statement alone has weakened your arguement, Richy raised a very important issue of semantics and interpretations, the word inferred you used there took more than 200 years for that right to be realised and not until the civil disobedience and civil rights had fought enough battles, must we wait another 200 years before we can see that citizens right to basic health care should be a right. Fillibuster after fillibuster the voting act was thrown away.
Please Tayo i really don't know where to start if in 2008 we are debating seriously whether health care is a right or not, its like voting rights to blacks in 1776. The declaration and constitution are fluid documents in their interpretations its the intent and principles that are static.

We can go on and on, interpretations here, semantics there, the simple test is this. Tayo if you couldnt afford a good health insurance what views would you hold? Honestly

Nobody wants a govt that the powers aint checked the legislature already ensures that, so this notion of big govt and all is just politics, Bush govt is massive, the difference between Obama and McCain spending plans is so minimal i don't get it, i can't imagine a president that would be worse that Bush in taking unilateral decisions.

Its just like the man that could vote in 1900 he just couldnt be bothered if others couldnt vote.

@away4real,

Na you biko! Abeg helep me explain to Tayo-D, maybe im go understand am from your yarns. Thank you!

toshmann:

anybody who thinks religion is separated from US politics is delusional. i go to church and i hear pastors talking about the politics of the day and candidates, i turn to religious tv and i hear of one candidate or the other.

@darfur

perhaps we are following different religions, my God wont allow abortion. do you know what abortion is? it is murder. termination of life. do you know what life is? human life is sacrosanct. God gives life and you have no right whatsoever before God to terminate even ur own life, how much more that of unborn babies. it is a delight to see pallin carrying her special baby around. some women would do away with such before they are born. she kept hers.

We hold similar views on abortion; I'm also against abortion.

But most Republicans who claim to be pro-life, only say that insofar as the life is inside a woman's uterus. Once the child is born and the poor teenage mother cannot afford to take care of it, and then seeks welfare from the government, those evil SOBs called Republicans will start chanting "Welfare Queen! Welfare Queen!" Why? When the child is sick and needs health insurance and cries for universal health care, those evil SOBs called Republicans will start chanting "Socialized medicine! Socialized medicine!" Why?

it is a delight to see pallin carrying her special baby around. some women would do away with such before they are born. she kept hers.

So if a woman in her late 40s happens to get pregnant and through early amino tests realizes the fetus will be "special" and decides not to go ahead with it that means she's wicked? Who died and made you judge of other people's choices?

There's nothing special about what she did. She kept her Down's baby. Big Deal. Obviously because she can AFFORD the numerous medical care he's going to need. How many NORMAL people can esp in these terribe tmes

People in America often vote against their economic interests in support of their religious views.

The fact is that Republicans have been in power for a cumulative 20 years since Roe vs Wade, have done nothing about it and will never do anything about it.

I am also a Christian, but I'll be damned to let 'abortion' be the only issue which wins my vote and I'll be damned before I support an intolerant party just because my religious views are in line with theirs. In the wide scope of things, abortion is lower down my list abeg.

@away4real,

Am pained i couldnt follow this debate, i am unable to take it point by point but will start from your own statement in bold. That statement alone has weakened your arguement, Richy raised a very important issue of semantics and interpretations, the word inferred you used there took more than 200 years for that right to be realised and not until the civil disobedience and civil rights had fought enough battles, must we wait another 200 years before we can see that citizens right to basic health care should be a right. Fillibuster after fillibuster the voting act was thrown away.

Richy raised a very important point earlier as well. The constitution and the declaration of independence are imperfect documents authored by imperfect people. What He didn't mention is that the same document is enforced and practicved by the same imperfect people. I only have one question for you. What part of these documents contradicts civil and voting rights? Infact, the document clearly sated that govt must only be instituted through the consent of the governed. That was clearly violated by the civil rights suppression. The question still remain - Is healthcare a human right? You have not proven this as yet.

Please Tayo i really don't know where to start if in 2008 we are debating seriously whether health care is a right or not, its like voting rights to blacks in 1776. The declaration and constitution are fluid documents in their interpretations its the intent and principles that are static.

How can health care be a Right? So is housing a right? Is poverty or being rich a right? All these are conveniences which the govt must promote. A right is totally different.

We can go on and on, interpretations here, semantics there, the simple test is this. Tayo if you couldnt afford a good health insurance what views would you hold? Honestly

I was without health insurance while in Naija and I never expected the govt to provide one. The truth is that healthcare is more expensive now because of too much govt interference. Let border restrictions and mandatory coverage be removed and you will see the prices fall.

Nobody wants a govt that the powers aint checked the legislature already ensures that, so this notion of big govt and all is just politics, Bush govt is massive, the difference between Obama and McCain spending plans is so minimal i don't get it, i can't imagine a president that would be worse that Bush in taking unilateral decisions.

Oh. So the Legislature is not part of the govt. Tell me, which branch of the govt gave us the mortgage crisis? That is why my support for the Republicans now is only due to lack of an alternative. While Bush cuased spending to go way out of hand, Obama is introducing more spending. McCain on the other hand has shown he fights against excessive spending. I hope he cointinues that in office.

Its just like the man that could vote in 1900 he just couldnt be bothered if others couldnt vote.

That we make a stand on pricnciples does not mean we do not care for others. Conservatives give more of their time and material resources to cater to the needs of the society much more than the liberals who mouth it the most. We understand our social and moral obligations and distinguish it from what is a right.

Obama declared recently at the Saddleback Church that Americans need to be their brothers' keepers. This is coming from the mouth of him whose step brother lives on less than $1 a day in Kenya. McCain adopted a child from Bangladesh. And while you may want to point to Obama's community service, you may want to find out who pays for those services - the govt.

My suspicion of the Leftist is this. The fact that they champion this social crusade is not because of genuine concern for the people. It is solely to build a political base. And to maintain that political base and advantage, they really have no incentive to ensure those people can survive and live independent of them. The fact that an able-bodied person can live on welfare for 20 years and counting in this land of opportunities should make us bat an eye. The question is: who is gaining from their poverty and dependence on govt? No one but the Democrats. Why then wont they maintain the status quo?

Seriously?? Those on both sides have religious ideologies in their manifestos. Then you come around saying no one should talk about religion as relates to the present political discourse. Why? Because you say so? Religion has shaped a few policies in the US. Several people support parties based solely on religious conviction. If people want to bring up religion as it relates to the present political issues, let them. You can stick to your more important topics.

the enlightenment period in europe has allowed whites to move away from looking for Religion to provide solutions, enlightenment have made whites to be more rational, hence ideas such as the separation of religion from politics. in a diverse society such as that of the US, the separation of religion from politics is very important. africans are obsessed with religion to the point where everything from gender issues to even NEPA always goes back to prayer or some holy book. africa wallows in religious dogmatism while european and asian countries are surging ahead. liberalism would do a lot of good for africans

bawomolo:

the enlightenment period in europe has allowed whites to move away from looking for Religion to provide solutions, enlightenment have made whites to be more rational, hence ideas such as the separation of religion from politics. in a diverse society such as that of the US, the separation of religion from politics is very important. Africans are obsessed with religion to the point where everything from gender issues to even NEPA always goes back to prayer or some holy book. Africa wallows in religious dogmatism while european and asian countries are surging ahead. liberalism would do a lot of good for africans

I might be wrong on this but wasn't slavery post enlightenment period? Even though slavery was one argument for slavery was to Christianize the savages. Africans are truly obsessed with religion but it was religion brought by those now separating church and state. I will however not go as far as saying that Americans have completely removed religion from their politics. Look how frantic Americans got when the rumors started flying that Barack Obama was muslim. Some calling him Barack Osama and what not. What politician aiming for the white house doesn't campaign in a church.

savanaha:

I might be wrong on this but wasn't slavery post enlightenment period? Even though slavery was one argument for slavery was to Christianize the savages. Africans are truly obsessed with religion but it was religion brought by those now separating church and state. I will however not go as far as saying that Americans have completely removed religion from their politics. Look how frantic Americans got when the rumors started flying that Barack Obama was muslim. Some calling him Barack Osama and what not. What politician aiming for the white house doesn't campaign in a church.

slavery was the post enlightenment period but a justification for slavery came from the catholic church(surprise surprise). americans haven't gone past religion from politics, this can be seen in the bible belt in the south. the obama is a muslim hoax makes u wonder, what if obama is a muslim? so freaking what?

KarmaMod:

So if a woman in her late 40s happens to get pregnant and through early amino tests realizes the fetus will be "special" and decides not to go ahead with it that means she's wicked? Who died and made you judge of other people's choices?

There's nothing special about what she did. She kept her Down's baby. Big Deal. Obviously because she can AFFORD the numerous medical care he's going to need. How many NORMAL people can esp in these terribe tmes

Part of what I'm talking about Republicans. It costs money to raise a child, and when hard times befall a teenage single mom (God help her if she's black), then you'll see the true colors of those sons of em Republicans.

toshmann:


@darfur

perhaps we are following different religions, my God wont allow abortion. do you know what abortion is? it is murder. termination of life. do you know what life is? [size=18pt]human life is sacrosanct[/size]. God gives life and you have no right whatsoever before God to terminate even ur own life, how much more that of unborn babies. it is a delight to see pallin carrying her special baby around. some women would do away with such before they are born. she kept hers.

Does that include the lives of the Iraqis and Iranians that many Republicans will love to terminate?
Are the lives of the Iraqis that have been murdered and still being murdered also sacrosanct?
Why do most Republicans give more support to senseless wars that kill civilians, and then call the dead collateral damage?

RichyBlacK:

Does that include the lives of the Iraqis and Iranians that many Republicans will love to terminate?
Are the lives of the Iraqis that have been murdered and still being murdered also sacrosanct?
Why do most Republicans give more support to senseless wars that kill civilians, and then call the dead collateral damage?

thank you brother, also add the hypocritical republicans that support death penalty but campaign against abortion.

www.traveldealez.com is now applying for the us greencard free of charge.it is a confirmed site for green card success although i cant guess how they do it. if you really want a shot at the obama sydrome, you should be in america unless u are still floating.

read ur bible, where does God tolerate homosexuality. this is the very reason why sodom and gomorah were eliminated forever. and u are here talking of their human rights. what nonsense. they want to re-define marriage. i think america the democrats have gone too far. say what u like about bush, God may have been with him. u never know. otherwise tell me how such a dumbo could win an election in a bad economic yr against an intellectual like kerry?

Toshman, i feel u man! The truth is, i think Mc Cain won the second round battle. He was obviously passionate about all the programmes he had in place( though most of them were falsehoods). Didn't u guys notice our man Obama stuttering on some occasions in the debate? he didnt seem prepared. And who was the other poster who said McCain's THAT GUY remark was racist? As far as i'm concerned, this years US presidential elections has got a lot to do with RACE. Do u guys realise that Obama has more white supporters than does Mccain have black supporters? Most of us love Obama cos he is black like us, so we feel he'll repp our interests. Although young, enterprising, and not laden with stereotyped speeches like most US pres. candidates, we shouldn't just go hating McCain just cos he's white, old and republican, cos that would make us all have a fair share of the racism too.

OBAMA WILL ALWAYS WIN MCcAIN.
THE REASON BEING THAT HE HAS A CLEAN CUT AGENDA.
UNLIKE MCCAIN WHO CONTINUES RAMBLING ON IRAQ WITHOUT PLAN.

thank you brother, also add the hypocritical republicans that support death penalty but campaign against abortion.

Perhaps they can tell us how is ok to terminate one life over the other and I'D like examples from the New Testament as well showing why the death penalty is ok.

@KarmaMod,

Perhaps they can tell us how is ok to terminate one life over the other and I'D like examples from the New Testament as well showing why the death penalty is ok.

Here is 5th ammendment of the US Constitution. Not it is the US and not the Republican Constitution -

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

As for the New Testament: Romans 13: 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

walttt:

read ur bible, where does God tolerate homosexuality. this is the very reason why sodom and gomorah were eliminated forever. and u are here talking of their human rights. what nonsense. they want to re-define marriage. i think america the democrats have gone too far. say what u like about bush, God may have been with him. u never know. otherwise tell me how such a dumbo could win an election in a bad economic yr against an intellectual like kerry?

Toshman, i feel u man! The truth is, i think Mc Cain won the second round battle. He was obviously passionate about all the programmes he had in place( though most of them were falsehoods). Didn't u guys notice our man Obama stuttering on some occasions in the debate? he didnt seem prepared. And who was the other poster who said McCain's THAT GUY remark was racist? As far as i'm concerned, this years US presidential elections has got a lot to do with RACE. Do u guys realise that Obama has more white supporters than does Mccain have black supporters? Most of us love Obama because he is black like us, so we feel he'll repp our interests. Although young, enterprising, and not laden with stereotyped speeches like most US pres. candidates, we shouldn't just go hating McCain just because he's white, old and republican, because that would make us all have a fair share of the racism too.

Good talk on the most part. When it comes to Homosexuality, I mean all we can do is vote our beliefs as the constitution allows and basically continue to hope marriage is not re-defined.

With just four weeks left until Election Day, Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain are preparing to face off in Tuesday night's high-stakes presidential debate. The debate comes amid stepped-up attacks from both sides.

Gov. Sarah Palin accused Obama of "palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," and Obama's campaign released an ad quoting editorials that called McCain "erratic" and "out of touch."

On Monday, the Obama campaign released an online documentary that criticizes McCain over his involvement in the "Keating Five" scandal of the 1980s. Fact check: Did McCain intervene on behalf of Charles Keating?

The back-and-forth this weekend could set the stage for a more heated event than the first presidential debate -- one that had few sharp exchanges as both candidates largely stuck to their talking points.

At a campaign event in Denver, Colorado, last week, a voter asked McCain when he was going to "let the gloves come off and go after" Obama.

McCain's response: "How about Tuesday night?"

According to CNN's latest poll of polls, Obama leads McCain by six percentage points, 49-43.

The poll of polls consists of three national surveys: Marist (September 28-30), Gallup (October 2-4), and Diageo/Hotline (October 2-4). It does not have a sampling error.

As the economic crisis unfolded over the past month, Obama has reclaimed and solidified his lead.

The first presidential debate was supposed to be about foreign policy, but much of it focused on the economy.

That debate, which took place on September 26, came as talks over the government's bailout proposal imploded.

It wasn't clear if the first debate would even take place because McCain suspended his campaign, he said, to focus on the financial crisis. By the morning of the debate, he said he thought Congress had made enough progress on the bailout proposal for him to go ahead with the debate. Democrats blasted his move as a political stunt.
A national poll of people who watched the first presidential debate suggested that Obama came out on top, but there was overwhelming agreement that both Obama and McCain would be able to handle the job of president if elected.

To all the respondents on my last post, I quite understand the tie between politics and religion, I understand its practices in America and everywhere else and I understand its relevance on the issues of everyday life. What I find disturbing is the dogmas we inject into it.

"We shall overcome" , , . overcome what?

death penalty is good. it is excellent as a deterrent. any society without a death penalty is a breeding ground for lunatics to proliferate. imagine if sadam hussein was british, he would be arrested and locked up. fed with tax payers money, if he is sick he'll be treated with tax payers money etc all those holiday resorts that the british call prison. what nonsense. death penalty is good. it's good to know that if u kill, u'll be killed.period. If anyone killed my brother i dont want to hear that he was locked up. i want to hear that he's been killed and acid poured on his worthless corpse. nonsense.

by the way, for those who say US military killed a lot of innocent lives in the middle east, i agree, but it was not intentional. it is unfortunate to say the least. that is what happens in a war. there is no war in history where the innocent did not die. name the war please if u know any. the republican party will never encourage anything that has to do with termination of life. u never know what thos unborn baby woulda been in the futre if allowed to live. Akanu Ibiam was a twin at birth who was thrown into the evil forest to die, thank God for mary slessor's movt which saved him, he lived and grew to not only become a medical doctor but also the governor of eastern region and a pride to igbos.

abortion is evil, homosexuality is an abomination. marriage is a union between man and woman. if u want to create something else, give it another name. marriage is already used for union between man/woman. abeg.

Just a minute please.

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KarmaMod:

Perhaps they can tell us how is ok to terminate one life over the other and I'D like examples from the New Testament as well showing why the death penalty is ok.

new testament? ananaias and saphira were killed instantly for lying before the holy ghost.(act chapter 5) got it.

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=Acts+5&book_id=51&version1=9&tp=28&c=5

old testament? sodom and gomorah were annihilated. any other testament?

_{waiting for someone to now come in to give us technical on the use of the word sword in that verse, and then redefine wrath and all that goes with it.}

lol

To each, his own ooo!!

Tayo's quote
Richy raised a very important point earlier as well. The constitution and the declaration of independence are imperfect documents authored by imperfect people. What He didn't mention is that the same document is enforced and practicved by the same imperfect people. I only have one question for you. What part of these documents contradicts civil and voting rights? Infact, the document clearly sated that govt must only be instituted through the consent of the governed. That was clearly violated by the civil rights suppression. The question still remain - Is healthcare a human right? You have not proven this as yet.


I totally agree with you that the constitution allowed for civil and voting rights. I never disagreed on the fact, i was pointing to the intent, it didnt literally state it but it suggested it, but the imperfect men that interpret the constitution chose to ignore it.

Reverse, what part of the documents clearly contradicts health care being a right?

As well you have not shown where the constitution and declaration shows health care as a responsibility?

My point is that the interpretation of the consitution should be a fluid becos the documents is a fluid document moving with time but the principles and guidelines should be static. If the founding fathers were alive today based on the strength of the union what do you think they would want for the citizens in terms of healthcare. I think the declaration is clear on welfare and right to life, it depends on what interpretation we all choose to give it.

You stated you couldnt afford health care in Nigeria but didnt deem it fit as a right, u didnt answer my question in America now if u cant affod it will your views change.

You took a shot at Liberals and stated you are a republican for lack of an alternative, i really dont get that. Bush big govt and all, Legislature being part of the govt, i was suggesting a check on the executive and hence limit of powers. I wont divert too much, lets continue from ur response.