Religion at its best.

Omnipotent god readily creates sinful beings so he can roast them forever.

He's good, yet he's creating sin.

One can go on and on and on and on

jdilight:

Before I go into details, please can you answer me this question.

Do you father's sin : I mean your present father, make you a sinner?

Obviously not, my earthly fathers sin has nothing to do with me, but to u have to understand the concept of original sin u have to understand redemption, that is what Jesus came to do.

Do u also know that before the coming of Jesus even the sin of the earhtly fathers was binding on the kids? U don't have to read too much of the Old testament to understand this.

[quote author=frosbel]everybody is going to hell when they die, both the good and the bad.

Hell is the GRAVE.[/quote

Interesting, if Help was just the grave, then why was the rich man scared that his brothers might end there since everyone is going to the grave (Luke 16:28)?

jdilight:

Adam is not our father. Jesus said call no one on earth your father. God is our father. Adam has no nature, the nature he has is that of his father God. That is what he passed to us. Adam choose to serve Satan and that choice did not include his children.

All have sin, yes because we all were born into a sinful world. We learn from Adam to sin. But it is not in our nature, we just learnt it.

Any one who has a sinful nature cannot repent.

Born into sinful world, good, so where did the sin or sinful world comes from?

PastorOluT:

Born into sinful world, good, so where did the sin or sinful world comes from?

When you use the phrase come from, you give sin life. Sin is an act (disobedience) it has no life. Both disobedience and obedience are learnt, they are not in born in man.

Do you know that man is a composition of all he has learn: Adam inclusive. Adam sinned because he disobeyed his master (God) and choose to obey a stranger.

Actions don't enter into our blood or gene, therefore cannot be passed on to our children except through learning.

A girl whose mother wears trousers cannot love wearing trousers except she learn to even if her mother was the originator.

PastorOluT:

Obviously not, my earthly fathers sin has nothing to do with me, but to u have to understand the concept of original sin u have to understand redemption, that is what Jesus came to do.

Do u also know that before the coming of Jesus even the sin of the earhtly fathers was binding on the kids? U don't have to read too much of the Old testament to understand this.

There is nothing like original sin. That word is a theological rubbish from Satan to keep man under bondage.

The punishment of the sins of the father and not the sin of the father was passed to the children only when they followed the steps of their father. If you study the history of the kings of Israel you will understand what l mean.

jdilight:

There is nothing like original sin. That word is a theological rubbish from Satan to keep man under bondage.

The punishment of the sins of the father and not the sin of the father was passed to the children only when they followed the steps of their father. If you study the history of the kings of Israel you will understand what l mean.

Perfectly said !

twosquare: check my new post above....Noah was a sinner but with time learnt righteousness and found grace in God's eyes. We have Adamic nature which wasn't sinful in the beginning. Adam a living soul....but sir,there is a 'fallen Adamic nature'

From you post if righteousness was learn by Noah then unrighteousness was learned by the rest instead of it being their nature. God told me and l heard him clearly that Adam has no nature, that the nature of Adam was His.

twosquare: That's not true. ADAM was our father until Christ came. I don't think you know why he is referred to as 2nd Adam.....we inherited something from Adam,that's sin....no one escaped that.It took another Adam at the end of age,someone who had the pedigree of glory Adam had in the beginning to turn it around and by obedience to the Father gave eternal life.
Jesus said that to bring us to the true Father....we have fathers but One Father which He want men to know....many kings but One King.
ADAM has the nature of a son of man....not the nature of God....he was made 'after God's likeness'....he need to come into the fulness. If not Christ would not have come. The nature of God is incorruptible....that nature doesn't respond to neither sin nor death....it is called IMMORTALITY. But Adam nature can still respond to corruption&he fell,that's why men died.
Anyone with a sinful nature of a certain degree can still repent. There is an arena satan wants to take and own man completely.....it will happen in 666. In the world of men,they can still repent until the sealing times when men will be sealed unto the name of blasphemy.

When you say Adam was our father before Jesus came, your now saying Jesus is our father. No Jesus is not our Father, but Jesus Father who is Adam Father is our father. When Paul referred to Jesus as the second Adam, he was making a comparison.

The first Adam cut the connection between God and man. If you study your Bible well you will see that men began to call on God again after Adam gave birth to Seth. That mean till set came Adam had nothing to do with God again. Jesus said I am the way to the father. Jesus reconnected man back to God.

We inherited only the image and likeness of God from Adam. Sin is an act it cannot be inherited.

You say Adam is son of man? if you read your Bible very well you will see that Adam was mainly referred as son of God, while Jesus referred himself as the son of man.

Now man is immortal, man cannot die. What you see people bury is not the man but his flesh. The real man is gone.

jdilight:

From you post if righteousness was learn by Noah then unrighteousness was learned by the rest instead of it being their nature. God told me and l heard him clearly that Adam has no nature, that the nature of Adam was His.

i can't continue to teach about nature...it's a vast ocean of knowledge we can't finish here....and i will tell you again ADAM has. There are Natures in the order of creation....there is a nature of the created&there is a Nature of Him who doesn't have a beginning nor an ending. There is what is called Adamic Nature and what is called Fallen Adamic Nature.They are two different things. ADAM in Eden is different from Adam outside of Eden. GOD wants Adam to have His own nature: IMMORTALITY swallowing up(overiding) LIVING SOUL. That's the reason for the TREE OF LIFE.
Adamic Nature is the lowest among the sons of Yahweh....you can't compare the Nature of Adam to the Stars of God or the SERAPHS...neither can you compare the Nature of SERAPHS to that of CHERUBS...aren't all they made by YAHWEH? But are superior in better making. But the Nature of Him that sits on the throne gave birth to other Natures....Adam was supposed to come into it.

jdilight:

There is nothing like original sin. That word is a theological rubbish from Satan to keep man under bondage.

The punishment of the sins of the father and not the sin of the father was passed to the children only when they followed the steps of their father. If you study the history of the kings of Israel you will understand what l mean.

Whether the word was coined by the church fathers it makes no difference as to the concept, if anyone denies the concept then he is inveriably denying what Jesus came to do as it is vividly written in Romans 5.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Read carefully, sin reigned cos of one man disobedience and all became sinners, and life came through Jesus which is what He came to reverse. Obviously u don't understand Atonement or what Jesus came to do.

jdilight:

When you say Adam was our father before Jesus came, your now saying Jesus is our father. No Jesus is not our Father, but Jesus Father who is Adam Father is our father. When Paul referred to Jesus as the second Adam, he was making a comparison.

The first Adam cut the connection between God and man. If you study your Bible well you will see that men began to call on God again after Adam gave birth to Seth. That mean till set came Adam had nothing to do with God again. Jesus said I am the way to the father. Jesus reconnected man back to God.

We inherited only the image and likeness of God from Adam. Sin is an act it cannot be inherited.

You say Adam is son of man? if you read your Bible very well you will see that Adam was mainly referred as son of God, while Jesus referred himself as the son of man.

Now man is immortal, man cannot die. What you see people bury is not the man but his flesh. The real man is gone.

Maybe i should start lecturing you about stratas of sons....Adam was the highest son of man....lowest son of God...those are order in the realm of the spirit....most of the prophets were referred to such not for fun.
JESUS gave birth to us...He is our Father just as Yahweh gave birth to Him too....
"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son,today I have BEGOTTEN"

We are being conformed to the image of Christ for a reason....JESUS gave birth to us....He was born that He might born us

Man is not immortal. JESUS said fear not him who can kill the body but not the soul...BUT fear Him who after killing the body can DESTROY the soul in hell....we should ask what destruction is?

jdilight:

When you say Adam was our father before Jesus came, your now saying Jesus is our father. No Jesus is not our Father, but Jesus Father who is Adam Father is our father. When Paul referred to Jesus as the second Adam, he was making a comparison.

The first Adam cut the connection between God and man. If you study your Bible well you will see that men began to call on God again after Adam gave birth to Seth. That mean till set came Adam had nothing to do with God again. Jesus said I am the way to the father. Jesus reconnected man back to God.

We inherited only the image and likeness of God from Adam. Sin is an act it cannot be inherited.

You say Adam is son of man? if you read your Bible very well you will see that Adam was mainly referred as son of God, while Jesus referred himself as the son of man.

Now man is immortal, man cannot die. What you see people bury is not the man but his flesh. The real man is gone.

And on the last note also,as i said above which i'll say in another understable manner: IMMORTALITY is higher than ETERNAL LIFE. This are food for the mature....i don't normally divulge secrets if not that i want folks to move up......In other words, IMMORTALITY gave birth to ETERNAL LIFE. How much more ADAM who was just a LIVING SOUL.

Weah96: Have you been dead before? Why do you guys act like mad people whenever the word 'GOD' is involved? Here you are, posting comments about what happens when people die. How can one know that sort of thing simply by reading a text written by an anonymous Jewish person from over 2000 years ago? The Jewish people themselves, the ones the author grew up with, didn't believe his hell theory. Their descendants today don't believe in it either. Smh.

Well said brother!

PastorOluT: Let him that has ears listen to what the spirit is saying!

Only a fool will listen to you pastor. Get a life!

PastorOluT:

Whether the word was coined by the church fathers it makes no difference as to the concept, if anyone denies the concept then he is inveriably denying what Jesus came to do as it is vividly written in Romans 5.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Read carefully, sin reigned cos of one man disobedience and all became sinners, and life came through Jesus which is what He came to reverse. Obviously u don't understand Atonement or what Jesus came to do.

You right sin reign by one man, that one man taught his children to sin. But it is not the nature of man to sin. Man has the nature of God, that is why weather you go to Church or not when you do any wrong thing you will know.

Remember before moses there was no law. That same period God wiped out an entire generation leaving only now and his house.

Paul said God has put his law in the heart of those who don't have the law, now that is God's nature in man.

twosquare: Maybe i should start lecturing you about stratas of sons....Adam was the highest son of man....lowest son of God...those are order in the realm of the spirit....most of the prophets were referred to such not for fun.
JESUS gave birth to us...He is our Father just as Yahweh gave birth to Him too....
"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son,today I have BEGOTTEN"

We are being conformed to the image of Christ for a reason....JESUS gave birth to us....He was born that He might born us

Man is not immortal. JESUS said fear not him who can kill the body but not the soul...BUT fear Him who after killing the body can DESTROY the soul in hell....we should ask what destruction is?

Theology is devils tool of keeping man in bondage. The day man knows his true father. Perfection to man become a way of life just like his father.

jdilight:

Theology is devils tool of keeping man in bondage. The day man knows his true father. Perfection to man become a way of life just like his father.

Am not teaching theology coz it can't touch death. Satan has put men in bondage before the advent of theology. That day may never come if not that God helped man and is still helping them(us.) The Father of all spirits has become darkened to man....to know Him is to be free. A software was implanted in him by satan never to come to the way of perfection not to even sniff it. And it will keep unveiling itself if not stopped by the Lamb.As many received Him will be given that ability/empowerment to detonate the time bomb satan gave to men.

@jdlight

Yeah they are created with the nature of God but that nature was corrupted as a result of the sin of Adam, and as a result every man inherited that corrupted nature. This is as simple as it can get, I don't understand ur arhuement?

ifeness:

Only a fool will listen to you pastor. Get a life!

Yeah u are right, those that are fools for Christ sake.

PastorOluT:

Yeah u are right, those that are fools for Christ sake.

Fools to reasoning you meant

ifeness:

Fools to reasoning you meant

What obviously make sense to people many at times is foolishness before God, so reason my friiend can be relative.

PastorOluT:

What obviously make sense to people many at times is foolishness before God, so reason my friiend can be relative.

Reason and common sense belong to this world. The bible admits that it contains nothing but foolishness as far as reason is concerned. So no, in this case reason is not relative.

Weah96:

Reason and common sense belong to this world. The bible admits that it contains nothing but foolishness as far as reason is concerned. So no, in this case reason is not relative.

"In this case", even that makes it relative, so u see my friend ur wisdom n reasoning in the worldy sense is questionable.

PastorOluT:

"In this case", even that makes it relative, so u see my friend ur wisdom n reasoning in the worldy sense is questionable.

God has confused you finish. Ifeness accused you of being unable to apply proper logic or even reason correctly. You responded by introducing an imaginary person into the argument, and going on to claim that reasoning and logic are mere foolishness before this invisible person. So we are in agreement. You agree that between Ifeness, me, and human beings, you are a fool. But from the perspective of the invisible person you speak with daily, we are all fools and you're the genius. The genius who figured out the answer to it all.

Weah96:

God has confused you finish. Ifeness accused you of being unable to apply proper logic or even reason correctly. You responded by introducing an imaginary person into the argument, and going on to claim that reasoning and logic are mere foolishness before this invisible person. So we are in agreement. You agree that between Ifeness, me, and human beings, you are a fool. But from the perspective of the invisible person you speak with daily, we are all fools and you're the genius. The genius who figured out the answer to it all.

I can see u guys are not as wise as u always claim, 'we speak wisdom, but not the wisdom of the world, but with the matured and mysteries of the kingdom.

Even going by the rationale of the argument, what does being relative means? 'Expressed in relation to another item, not in complete form'. So in realation to God, ur wisdom is pure foolishness my friiend.

PastorOluT:
So in realation to God, ur wisdom is pure foolishness my friiend.

Yes, that's what I've been saying. But Ifeness was addressing you, not God, since God doesn't have a NL username to tell us himself. You're calling me a fool because your invisible friend said so, not to you, but to some ancient Hebrew males.

Weah96:

Yes, that's what I've been saying. But Ifeness was addressing you, not God, since God doesn't have a NL username to tell us himself. You're calling me a fool because your invisible friend said so, not to you, but to some ancient Hebrew males.

Sincerely I dont understand u? Ife was addressing me based on my belief in God n I responded based on my believe in God, so why should I now leave God out of it? In fact we are having this discussion 'cos of my belief in God, if not it would never come up.

So friiend it is what I believe (n mind u not just me but millions also) I speak from which makes my point stands, n meanwhile this is simple logic u seek!

twosquare: Am not teaching theology coz it can't touch death. Satan has put men in bondage before the advent of theology. That day may never come if not that God helped man and is still helping them(us.) The Father of all spirits has become darkened to man....to know Him is to be free. A software was implanted in him by satan never to come to the way of perfection not to even sniff it. And it will keep unveiling itself if not stopped by the Lamb.As many received Him will be given that ability/empowerment to detonate the time bomb satan gave to men.

This is a big Lie. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I KNOW, YOU WILL LIVE RIGHTEOUS AS A SINNER LIVES IN SIN.

jdilight:

This is a big Lie. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I KNOW, YOU WILL LIVE RIGHTEOUS AS A SINNER LIVES IN SIN.

And i ask what you know.
By the help of sin,death came...do not misunderstood me...you can live righteously but you need empowerment coz an inferior seed was planted in Man by satan. Then you should ask why men still die physically if not that sin is present in the body....men do not have to die again. sin needed to be swallowed up both in the soul&body by Life because there is a law in us that will war against the new law...sin is a virus infused into us by satan..so when another law cometh,it'll war against it not to find expression. GOD wants us to swallow it up just as Enoch did....when i talk of sin,it's beyond works of the flesh.

twosquare: And i ask what you know.
By the help of sin,death came...do not misunderstood me...you can live righteously but you need empowerment coz an inferior seed was planted in Man by satan. Then you should ask why men still die physically if not that sin is present in the body....men do not have to die again. sin needed to be swallowed up both in the soul&body by Life because there is a law in us that will war against the new law...sin is a virus infused into us by satan..so when another law cometh,it'll war against it not to find expression. GOD wants us to swallow it up just as Enoch did....when i talk of sin,it's beyond works of the flesh.

With sin or no sin everyone must die physically but not spiritually. Mind you man is not the physical being your seeing. There is no where in mine bible where man has sin nature. Everywhere you see anything about see, it always point to the fact that see is in the world it never point to the fact that sin is in man/Adam.

jdilight:

With sin or no sin everyone must die physically but not spiritually. Mind you man is not the physical being your seeing. There is no where in mine bible where man has sin nature. Everywhere you see anything about see, it always point to the fact that see is in the world it never point to the fact that sin is in man/Adam.

Adam nature was corrupted that was why men were subjected to corruption....he received sin&the nature....by the time satan will be through with some men,you will see it crystal clear that which he planted has taken over...that's when men shall be one with satan finally.
As i said men doesn't have to die physically,the body is also alive but dead coz of sin...when righteousness shall take men over,immortality will swallow up mortality. If anyone wants to die,that's his choice....if they ask you where your tomb(grave) is, tell them you've got one in Jerusalem. The fullness of Righteousness won't make you to die.it will overide it....(physically). Ask Enoch,ask Melchizedek or Elijah,even our Lord Jesus,John the Beloved. Death has been conquered, folks don't know this due to ignorance...we've heard of men after the apostles who attained this state.