italo:

Okay...so according to you...molestation is okay, only if done within an organization.

No need to argue further with you.

Do not put words into my mouth.
I told you the USA already knows about it and exonerated them of charges of paedophilia. If you have any objections you can take them to court.

Apatheist:
Do not put words into my mouth.
I told you the USA already knows about it and exonerated them of charges of paedophilia. If you have any objections you can take them to court.

Really?


Sex with boys is allowed in the USA? What happened to the age limit?

italo:

1. Molestation is not more rampant in the Church than other organizations. You're only assuming. No proof...no study suggests that.

2. The article shows that molestation is more rampant within families, in neighbourhoods and schools. How many families report their molesters to police. Have you reported the criminals in your family, school or workplace to police?

3. You see what you want to see. You don't see the effort the Church has put into checking this menace ands helping the abused because you hate the Church and want to smear it.

4. Give us the rate of paedophilia in other organizations...let's compare.

Studies show that you're more likely to be molesting children around you...than a Catholic priest is.

Your argument is still the same : 'we're not the only ones doing it, so it's fine'

TheBigUrban2:


Really?


Sex with boys is allowed in the USA? What happened to the age limit?

Show me where in my post that I said that.

Apatheist:
Show me where in my post that I said that.

Calm down, I was trying to get the gist of the full story

Apatheist:
Your argument is still the same : 'we're not the only ones doing it, so it's fine'

Thank you.


The guy keeps bringing in atheists, families and nambla as if they would help his case in any way.

italo:

You're still missing it. Paedophilia is more rampant among you non-Catholic priests than it is among priests. Plaetton and his like are far more likely to be paedophiles than a Catholic priest is. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

You're exhibiting poor reasoning. Read this and direct your dull tirade at you members of the general population who are far worse:


As I’ve noted elsewhere, child-molestation is not a Catholic problem. It is a problem of Western culture in general. As Newsweek pointed out in their 2011 article Mean Men, “experts say there’s simply no data to support the claim [that the Church is “a refuge for pederasts”] at all …. based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. ‘We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,’ said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.”

Dr Thomas Plante a Professor of Psychology and an Adjunct Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine says “available research suggests that approximately two to five per cent of priests have had a sexual experience with a minor” a percentage which “is lower than the general adult male population that is best estimated to be closer to eight per cent.”

A child is more likely to be molested by his parents, his neighbors, or family friends than a priest, yet there exists no stereotype about these groups. According to the US Department of Education’s report on the issue, entitled Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature, “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore.html#sthash.aFw3BHAh.dpuf

You, Italo, still don't get it.
Pedophelia, like any other mental disease, is spread throughout the general population. Do you understand that part?

Now, the Catholic priesthood is an institution, an isolated part of the general population. It is an institution that is very very old, very very politically and economically powerful, in fact, the oldest political chancery in the world. And , of course, let's not forget it's pretenses to holiness and piety. Now, within the heirachy of this institution are priests of different categories that have been perpetuating pedophelia unchallenged for two millenia.
Over the past few decades we have all seen revelation after revelation of gross abuse of children by catholic priests from nearly every country.
Pedophelia in the Catholic priesthood is not just a few rogue priests, but is so widespread and entrenched within the system that it almost seems like some kind of rite of passage for much of their spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff .
Any pretense to the contrary is dishonest and evil.

And You , Italo, so for you a small percentage (8,000 est.) of catholic priests being pedophiles is no big deal to you, huh?
So what happened to god's hatred of sodomy, lusts, fornication, deceit, pretense, etc?
Do these catholic priests believe in and serve god, the same god that you believe and serve?
Are they backsliders or are they closet atheists?

Just imagine if any number of these pedophile priest slip detection throughout their priestly careers and then go on to become saints in the future? Don't you just wonder how many of the saints that you currently revere today may have been pedophiles in their priestly days.
Tifiakwa!

@Italo

If the catholic priesthood churns out the same percentage of pedophiles , or armed robbers as the general population, then wherein lies the virtues that are supposed to be associated with priestly life and service?

In other words, who needs a priests if the chances of being molested or robbed by a prist is the same with any other bloke in the general population?

TheBigUrban2:




We know how you argue nonsense when exposed...


Please continue

*yawns.

TheBigUrban2:

Thank you.


The guy keeps bringing in atheists, families and nambla as if they would help his case in any way.

What case?

plaetton:
You, Italo, still don't get it.
Pedophelia, like any other mental disease, is spread throughout the general population. Do you understand that part?

Now, the Catholic priesthood is an institution, an isolated part of the general population. It is an institution that is very very old, very very politically and economically powerful, in fact, the oldest political chancery in the world. And , of course, let's not forget it's pretenses to holiness and piety. Now, within the heirachy of this institution are priests of different categories that have been perpetuating pedophelia unchallenged for two millenia.
Over the past few decades we have all seen revelation after revelation of gross abuse of children by catholic priests from nearly every country.
Pedophelia in the Catholic priesthood is not just a few rogue priests, but is so widespread and entrenched within the system that it almost seems like some kind of rite of passage for much of their spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff .
Any pretense to the contrary is dishonest and evil.

And You , Italo, so for you a small percentage (8,000 est.) of catholic priests being pedophiles is no big deal to you, huh?
So what happened to god's hatred of sodomy, lusts, fornication, deceit, pretense, etc?
Do these catholic priests believe in and serve god, the same god that you believe and serve?
Are they backsliders or are they closet atheists?

Just imagine if any number of these pedophile priest slip detection throughout their priestly careers and then go on to become saints in the future? Don't you just wonder how many of the saints that you currently revere today may have been pedophiles in their priestly days.
Tifiakwa!

Much of your dull assumptions above are contrary to what educated studies suggest.

plaetton: @Italo

If the catholic priesthood churns out the same percentage of pedophiles , or armed robbers as the general population, then wherein lies the virtues that are supposed to be associated with priestly life and service?

In other words, who needs a priests if the chances of being molested or robbed by a prist is the same with any other bloke in the general population?

Studies show that paedophilia is more rampant in families, neighbourhoods, schools, and in the general population...than in the Priesthood.

“the physical intimate abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore.html#sthash.aFw3BHAh.dpuf

Stop trying to force your ignorance on me.

italo:

Studies show that paedophilia is more rampant in families, neighbourhoods, schools, and in the general population...than in the Priesthood.

“the physical intimate abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by [Catholic] priests.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore.html#sthash.aFw3BHAh.dpuf

Stop trying to force your ignorance on me.

And your "educated studies" is a blog post?
Mxm

italo:

Much of your dull assumptions above are contrary to what educated studies suggest.

Ha ha.
And did your educated studies take into consideration the millions of unreported cases in 2 millennia? I bet not.

Just out of common sense, Italo, would you agree that perhaps just 1 out of every 100 cases of priestly abuse ever get reported?
What do you think the real statistics are for Nigeria, for example?

italo:

Friend, paedophilia is more rampant among the general population who are free to marry than among priests. How about that to nullify your suggestion?

"A child is more likely to be molested by his parents, his neighbors, or family friends than a priest, yet there exists no stereotype about these groups."
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore..aFw3BHAh.dpuf

For a singular group that does not have that much access to children, It is quite rampant.

Plus, we do know there is evidence of cover-up.

A more appropriate group to compare would be pentecostal pastors, and these kinds of scandal are less common.

Would this rate drop with marriage? I think so.

tbaba1234:

For a singular group that does not have that much access to children, It is quite rampant.

Plus, we do know there is evidence of cover-up.

A more appropriate group to compare would be pentecostal pastors, and these kinds of scandal are less common.

Would this rate drop with marriage? I think so.

Abeg....Tbaba shekau.....you and your peeps are not better.....you are just at the other extreme


four wives abi? Allahuakbar

tbaba1234:

For a singular group that does not have that much access to children, It is quite rampant.

Priests have a lot of access to children. Priests spend more time with children than biological fathers...in many cases. Yet paedophilia is less common with priests.

tbaba1234: Plus, we do know there is evidence of cover-up.

Example? Who covered up for who? Evidence! We Catholics want to know so we can deal with the matter appropriately.

tbaba1234: A more appropriate group to compare would be pentecostal pastors, and these kinds of scandal are less common.

Would this rate drop with marriage? I think so.

You're grossly mistaken. Paedophilia is not worse within the Catholic priesthood than among Protestant pastors. http://www.themediareport.com/2013/10/02/evangelical-sex-abuse-worse-than-catholic-church/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/us/15protestant.html?_r=2&

The rate of paedophilia is even worse with marriage.

The reasons you dont find many Protestant scandals are:

1. They dont keep records as the Catholic Church does.

2. The media focuses on the Catholic Church, not because they love children but because they hate the Catholic Church for the truth it stands for.

italo:
Priests have a lot of access to children. Priests spend more time with children than biological fathers...in many cases. Yet paedophilia is less common with priests.

Example? Who covered up for who? Evidence! We Catholics want to know so we can deal with the matter appropriately.


You're grossly mistaken. Paedophilia is not worse within the Catholic priesthood than among Protestant pastors. http://www.themediareport.com/2013/10/02/evangelical-sex-abuse-worse-than-catholic-church/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/us/15protestant.html?_r=2&

The rate of paedophilia is even worse with marriage.

The reasons you dont find many Protestant scandals are:

1. They dont keep records as the Catholic Church does.

2. The media focuses on the Catholic Church, not because they love children but because they hate the Catholic Church for the truth it stands for.

Yawn.

You have yet to put any numbers/percentages behind any other similar organisation to the catholic church in terms of molesters.


Your church has a plague of molestation. Accept it and find solutions. Your PR wont save you. Even muslims that have wife beating intsructions in their Quran are looking down on you

Apatheist:
And your "educated studies" is a blog post?
Mxm

Ad hominem.

I provide a blog that references educated studies.

You provide nothing.

One can use any medium to reference a study. A blog, website, a book, tv channel, newspaper article...etc.

You have poor reasoning skills.

italo:

Ad hominem.

I provide a blog that references educated studies.

You provide nothing.

One can use any medium to reference a study. A blog, website, a book, tv channel, newspaper article...etc.

You have poor reasoning skills.

Provide the direct links to the so-called educated studies.

plaetton:
Ha ha.
And did your educated studies take into consideration the millions of unreported cases in 2 millennia? I bet not.

Just out of common sense, Italo, would you agree that perhaps just 1 out of every 100 cases of priestly abuse ever get reported?
What do you think the real statistics are for Nigeria, for example?

I'm not interested in beer parlour ranting.

You have no evidence of any millions of cases in millennia.

You have no evidence that Atheists haven't molested billions of children in millennia.

You have no evidence of the percentage of cases that are reported (concerning priests or non priests)

All you have is ignorant assumptions.

What educated studies tell us is:

Plaetton is more likely to be a child molester than a priest is.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore..aFw3BHAh.dpuf

TheBigUrban2:
Yawn.

You have yet to put any numbers/percentages behind any other similar organisation to the catholic church in terms of molesters.


Your church has a plague of molestation. Accept it and find solutions. Your PR wont save you. Even muslims that have wife beating intsructions in their Quran are looking down on you

Educated studies show that you, Muslims are more likely to be child molesters than Catholic priests.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/2012/05/3-arguments-atheists-arent-allowed-to-use-anymore..aFw3BHAh.dpuf

italo:
Priests have a lot of access to children. Priests spend more time with children than biological fathers...in many cases. Yet paedophilia is less common with priests.


1. They dont keep records as the Catholic Church does.

2. The media focuses on the Catholic Church, not because they love children but because they hate the Catholic Church for the truth it stands for.

If you are allowed to enter heaven then I too must enter. Your moral compass is stuck on Satan. And this is coming from me, a non believer. Your last pope, that Ratzinger guy, as archbishop in Munich, sanctioned the transfer of a pedophil(e) to another parish where the devil went on to rap)e some more young children. As the cardinal in charge of the CDF, Ratzinger was in charge of p)edophiles from 2001. Read this letter and determine if his attitude is compatible with that of a pastor who finds out that a fellow MOG is sleeping with little boys.


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/churchdocs/EpistulaEnglish.htm

Weah96:
If you are allowed to enter heaven then I too must enter. Your moral compass is stuck on Satan. And this is coming from me, a non believer. Your last pope, that Ratzinger guy, as archbishop in Munich, sanctioned the transfer of a pedophil(e) to another parish where the devil went on to rap)e some more young children. As the cardinal in charge of the CDF, Ratzinger was in charge of p)edophiles from 2001. Read this letter and determine if his attitude is compatible with that of a pastor who finds out that a fellow MOG is sleeping with little boys.


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/churchdocs/EpistulaEnglish.htm

I see. You desire heaven and you are looking for a way in.

Jesus is the way.

Give me proof that the then Cardinal Ratzinger knew a priest was a paedophile and moved him to where he could hurt more children. I have proof that Pope Benedict XVI defrocked hundreds of priests in a few years if you want to see.


And tell me what you find wrong with the letter.

Then tell me what your father would do if he found out you were a paedophile...or a thief...or a yahoo boy. Be honest!

plaetton:

Correction sir,
The catholic is an institution. It is a powerful, old and well entrenched religious , political, economic and administrative institution with a heirachy of leadership and bureaucracy.
Therefore, the catholic church is wholly responsible for all and every act of evil committed by it's agents.
The fact that the church can and has been sued and fined in various jurisdictions is proof that they are deemed responsible both for the acts, and their failure over the many millenia to protect the children.

It would serve the church greater if they can face the facts that the priesthood seem to either induce or attract mainly homosexual pedophiles.

clap for yourself.

When a catholic steals meat, the whole "catholic church" should be blamed, because "the catholic church is an institution".

Ubenedictus:

clap for yourself.

When a catholic steals meat, the whole "catholic church" should be blamed, because "the catholic church is an institution".

The issues are about Catholic priests, who are bona fide agents of the Catholic institution and all that they claim to be or stand for.
We are here not talking about general members of the Catholic faith.

plaetton:

The issues are about Catholic priests, who are bona fide agents of the Catholic institution and all that they claim to be or stand for.
We are here not talking about general members of the Catholic faith.

1) Not every case is true. Some might just be to paint the church bad and mayb get a compesation. While, some are true. We have bad priests in the catholic churches just like every other religions and bodies. 2) This is against the ten commandment which all christians adhere to so if the church is puting up wilful blindness to this issue then its shouldn't be generalise cos everyone faces judgement personally. 3) the pope apologised and promise to keep fighting such. 4) Not everyone is fit for priesthood(no marriage) unfortunately we can't rili tell who's not. 5) Religion generally is getting a wrong turn in this generation and I wonder what's wrong. 6) am a catholic by birth. And trust me I feel like changing church but with what I see other church practise meehn I'll just read my bible and pray at home. 7) there's no number 8.