semitunde:

Unfortunately this is a possibility our south eastern people are not seeing presently.

The way I see it, the Igbo's continued vocal calls for war can make it easy for strategists to negotiate with middle belt. For the price of safety from war and not making it a "buffer zone" for the east; they can give any zone that guarantees its safety thoroughfare to the south east.

This will be an advantage for those in the west. They won't want a humanitarian crises from those fleeing the middle belt westward; and restricting the war to south east will make it easier and cheaper to round off.

SamIkenna:

The emboldened is why I said you can positively join or get off my lawn. Its clear where your interest lies. What I see are folks who want the East to be humiliated masquerading as advice purveyors. Let me put it in clear terms: The East will meet the core north fire for fire, viciousness for viciousness, and bomb for bomb if and when Nigeria crumbles - this fact is not lost on the northern intelligentsia. One of our God given roles in this hemisphere is to halt and roll back wahhabi islamic contagion pushing southwards. We're not compromised in anyway. We have nothing like a muslim cousin and christian nephew working against each other, so I expect you completely understood my drift on 'we're not compromised.' We're particularly suited to knock some sense into those who predicted, at the dawn of the century, to dip Koran in the Atlantic.

At any rate, I hope when you said you would be neutral you literally meant that. We would not like surprises.

Sloan:

I hope this is not your assumption of alliance with the West or anyone! Use your brain and don't come and cry sabotage if and when you are wiped out by your stupidity!

SamIkenna:

The emboldened is why I said you can positively join or get off my lawn. Its clear where your interest lies. What I see are folks who want the East to be humiliated masquerading as advice purveyors. Let me put it in clear terms: The East will meet the core north fire for fire, viciousness for viciousness, and bomb for bomb if and when Nigeria crumbles - this fact is not lost on the northern intelligentsia. One of our God given roles in this hemisphere is to halt and roll back wahhabi islamic contagion pushing southwards. We're not compromised in anyway. We have nothing like a muslim cousin and christian nephew working against each other, so I expect you completely understood my drift on 'we're not compromised.' We're particularly suited to knock some sense into those who predicted, at the dawn of the century, to dip Koran in the Atlantic.

At any rate, I hope when you said you would be neutral you literally meant that. We would not like surprises.

semitunde:

I conceed that my post you quoted may be taken as a humiliation for the south east , but without emotions, that is one of the possibilities that lie ahead if we take the war route.

And please, boldness and even having enough armaments doesn't win wars. Did USA win the war in Vietnam?

More importantly, have you considered what will happen after the war? If you win, will that be the end? If you keep alienating yourselves with the "we can do it alone" mentality, is it after the war you want to form alliances?

Yet alliances you will need, because realistically the south east is not in any position to do anything alone. I wont want to elaborate on this for now. Bestbelive though that you don't win wars these days, you only win momentary battles, the victim keeps coming back to haunt and taunt. You can ask yorubas, they will tell you that their post war effort is being shoved up their throat today.

So who are your friends? North? They are the enemy. South south? They are not good enough. Yoruba? You wrongfully abuse them consistently yet you always expect them to either be on your side or be neutral. How can you guarantee that?

But yes, I maybe I need to get of your lawn...

AkinEgba: Torkaka, Semitunde, Sloan and others:

You guys have completely turned this Middle Belt thread into ''Igbo versus others''. The Igbos here have also helped you to do so by having to respond to all your obviously anti-Igbo permutations.

Please go back and read the opening thread and my own opening response to see if it was intended to be an ''Igbo versus others'' thread.

I am at a loss as to how these ''Igbo versus others'' thing keeps happening even when the issue at hand is not designed as such.

semitunde:

Unfortunately this is a possibility our south eastern people are not seeing presently.

The way I see it, the Igbo's continued vocal calls for war can make it easy for strategists to negotiate with middle belt. For the price of safety from war and not making it a "buffer zone" for the east; they can give any zone that guarantees its safety thoroughfare to the south east.

This will be an advantage for those in the west. They won't want a humanitarian crises from those fleeing the middle belt westward; and restricting the war to south east will make it easier and cheaper to round off.

SamIkenna:

Unfortunately, we do not see issues the same way, and we don't need to because govts and law courts would be extinct if we did. One of the reasons I say this is because you stated that humiliation is one of the options in the kitty for the East. You see, this is where we irredeemably and regrettably diverge. When the bubble bursts everyone will be in need of friends and allies. The East is not in the business of threatening anyone and has never threatened anyone, and this is why its shockingly ironic because the section where the threat is endlessly coming from is consistently been adjudged to be ally worthy by people who are supposedly endowed with wisdom, while the recipients of the threats are considered dangerous and delusional. If this is not insanity I don't know what is. Anyway, not to get off the subject - when the bubble bursts, it will burst evenly. If you care to join us or them you're more than welcomed, and if you choose to be neutral while some barbarians are laying claim to part of your ancestral land, then good for you too. As for us, we will dig in and eliminate this insanity once and for all. One thing I have decided not to do is to, henceforth, beg people to join in resisting against their own subjugation or domination. You choose to fight, you fight. You don't - no offence taken. As for humiliation, that'll be over my dead body.

sirblac: The region with more wealth and foreign alliances will win.The Yoruba's have foreign aid if we call our guys from benin,Togo Ghana Brazil Cuba and Argentina we shall be a force to reckon with also with billionaires Lyk adenuga,otedola,obat,dele momodu e.t.c we are ready for warbring it on.
The north with foreign aid from Arab and Islamic countries will use these war to carry out a jihad in d country with billions of stolen funds by ex politicians they are a force to reckon with.
South east with foreign aids from few countries Lyk Haiti and jamica with very few billionaires will have a lot problems on funds and man power during the war.

sirblac: The region with more wealth and foreign alliances will win.The Yoruba's have foreign aid if we call our guys from benin,Togo Ghana Brazil Cuba and Argentina we shall be a force to reckon with also with billionaires Lyk adenuga,otedola,obat,dele momodu e.t.c we are ready for warbring it on.
The north with foreign aid from Arab and Islamic countries will use these war to carry out a jihad in d country with billions of stolen funds by ex politicians they are a force to reckon with.
South east with foreign aids from few countries Lyk Haiti and jamica with very few billionaires will have a lot problems on funds and man power during the war.

Qelvin:
this sure would make the top chart of most laughable post of the year.

EMANY01:

Of all the commentators you appears to be the most delusional.If the most recent wars on the African continent is anything to do by,was are not fought with only the weapons you have at hand.
You imagine that the Adenugas ,the Obattolas, the Otedollas do not have their equals in the south south or the south east.
Where do you get the idea that those folks would willingly roll out billions to persecute a war against who the SE/SS where the core of their billions came from?
Even if they did for filial reason they would be doing that,knowing that that would be the end of any investment that have past the cost line of ondo.
The SE/SS may never really trust each other but every baby knows that the only way the north would reach the SS is throught the SE and Edo .The have admited to themselves in separate fora that if the core north were to engage the SE they wold have to intervene and not wait because if they stood by and did nothing they would have more to lose than the SE .
For everyone in this conversation I think it will benefit you all to take a long hard dispassionate look at the map of Nigeria before voicing/typing out any opinions you would have formed.
Weigh you opinions against the cold hard truth that the map represents and be sure that you opinions stand in the face of the realites that the map presents

EasternLeopard:

Brilliant point of view

Not just states map but ethno-religious map of Nigeria.

EMANY01:
| meant to make that clarification/emphasis by finding such a map but posting with my phone has challenges

pazienza: The Yolobars cannot be neutral when Nigeria falls into chaos and war.

If Nigeria falls, the north would march south for obvious reasons, they would need a port if they were to sustain a war against the East, the Yolobars would either make their ports available for the North, or risk Invasion by the North, knowing the Yolobas they would choose to avoid the wrath of the North by allowing them to use their ports for weapons and food importation, this single action would have made sure they can no longer claim neutrality,but would now be seen as enemies by the East.


Should the Yolobas decide to deny the North the use of their ports, the North would invade and annihilate them,and no matter how they(yolobars) try,they would never get the support of the East to fight off the North,as the East would be scared of getting trapped in a Yoloba treachery that might see the Yolobas drawing our troops out of the East to Yolobaland,leaving our homeland ill protected and allowing the North to invade us.

The bottomline is that the East can never trust Yolobars again,we would be stupid to do so, considering our Biafra history and Yolobars Islamic factor.


The way i see it,the Yolobas in event of any war outbreak in Naija,would have no option but to align with the North. The both regions have Islam, it is a match made in heaven.

pazienza:
and play the international game better this time around .

Francis5:

Yeah Ojukwu was a bit lacking in that respect. Still, without him the Igbo nation will be history today.

Francis5:


The Christians in SW are endangered species much like their northern counterparts

semitunde:

Well, I guess I understand the emotions that come with having to do something, help notwithstanding.

But I'm not talking about if Yoruba will fight or not. I'm talking about how the war might play out. Yorubas will fight if and when they have to. Nothing will change that. It is the how that's up for debate.

Look, your points are somewhat valid as regards defending your territory from an aggressor, the mistake you and many others make is not realising that you do the same, I mean being aggressive to others. But you may not realise it, just like those you accuse don't too.

If you see any part of this country being aggressive, they are reacting to something.

Northerners are mainly represented by their religious people and their extremists are showing their hands. What gets me confused is that Igbo use most opportunities to hit at Yoruba, deservedly or not, and even when the issues have no connection with Yoruba.

Verbal attacks are made on other tribes but the most vitriolic is saved for Yoruba; funny enough Yoruba are the closest to allies the Igbos can get. Its a strange method igbos have chosen to have friends.

I guess you understand this and that's partly why you go with the "we can do it alone anyway" line? Its called pride. It goes before a fall.

emiye: [s]War mongers here again, Majority are the usual suspects, the igbos.

Someone on this thread, even said yorubas are the only ones who can break away peacefully, i must say there can be no peaceful unilateral breakway, but an unanimous one.

Igbos banking on war have lost the war before it started, roughly 15 million out of the 30 million igbos in nigeria are not on ibo land., in the event of war, they will be displaced, their means of livelihood sacked, investments will be lost, the human population in ibo land will be increased by 100% in a matter of months, housing needs becomes a problem, scarcity of money, food, available infrastructures overstretched, competition will be stiffer, Only then will you realise the mess you have created for yourself. In other regions, the net migration will lead to drop in population for a region like SW, or a marginal increase in population for some other regions.

Oyo state is just the size of all 5 SE states, imagine over 30million people crammed in to it, with half of them more or less displaced citizens.

Ibos should please keep quiet about war,their standing pre 1967 war is worse off now, they shot themselves in the foot, when they believed so much in one Nigeria than the other regions, migrating outside their region within the country and investing in it .[/s]

SamIkenna:

You touched on few interesting points that I feel the need to hash out so we be clear. These points are as follows:
1. That you understand where Igbo people's emotions are emanating from.
2. That Yoruba can and will fight if need be.
3. That Igbos are as aggressive as core north but do not realize it.
4. That Igbos unjustly and maliciously attack Yorubas for no reason, and this is one issue that confuses you.
5. That Yorubas are potential Igbo allies, perhaps.
6. That Igbos believe in go alone attitude due to pride (I inferred from your tone that you meant we have humongous pride).

Lets will deal with #6 first, and this is what I have to say: I strongly believe its essential that humans have a good dose of pride, in fact I doubt the world would be this developed without a huge amount of pride which the West infused into their pursuit of philosophy and study of natural laws. Roman empire, Greek city states of Athens and Spartans, British empire, French and German empires, Soviet Union, and USA, all these great societies have at one time or the other demonstrated immense pride and even used it in different occasions to rally their people together for a common cause. If anyone believes that pride had no place in the space race between the super powers then that person is indeed an alien. Pride, fear of domination, and intent to dominate were the potent mixture that spurred and pushed the British, french, German, Russia, American, and Japanese to exceed the limit knowledge/science arbitrarily imposed on humanity the dawn of 18th century. There's nothing wrong with pride, ignorance is where the wrong is resident. If I didn't have pride as an individual I'm sure I would not be who or where I am today. Pride makes a man choose death over slavery, domination and/or subjugation. It made men choose confrontation with murderous military dictators rather than be humiliated and bossed by barely literate men in uniform. You said we have it a lot, perhaps you're right and I thank God we did because without it we would not have risen past the decimation, lack, and economic impotence imposed on us by the Nigerian state at the end of civil war. Many of us today were destined by the Nigerian state/civil war victors to be lower than Almajiris. This truth is lost in many of you whose parents, friends, and relatives benefited from our near extermination and artificial destitution. So, do we have pride? Yes we do and in great quantity. Should we change it? Why should we change what catapulted many of us from imposed Almjiridom to success. Think about it for a second - from complete decimation and genocide to 20 pounds in a harsh black African country, and in less than 40 years we've grown a visible population of vibrant and enterprising men and women with little or no physical scars of the civil war. If you ask me, I'm extraordinarily proud of my people. The coast is still foggy and a lot needs to be done but we'll get there.


1. That you understand where Igbo people's emotions are emanating from:
Moving on to number one, I would say its highly unlikely you understand where the emotion is coming from. Saying you entirely understand it is akin to saying you fully understand the emotions of Holocaust survivors. I hear this lot: let's 'move' on, the war's in the past, we have a future together, you're playing victim - choose whether you're a Nigerian or Biafran so we may have peace. My answers have always been: move on to what and where? what future are these people talking about? Of course you dragged us back in this hell-hole so you might as well go deaf 'cause I'll speak of Biafra if and when I want to. If you cared so much about not hearing it why then did you have to kill 2-3 million out of 12 million Igbos/Biafrans that lived in 1967. You don't slap a baby and impose silence on her. If you loved or cared so much about 'quiet' then don't slap the child. Of course its humiliating to be dragged back in a house you ditched. As a man my soul feels wounded, its akin to being violated in a market square in full glare and amusement of both the young, old, and the perverted. No matter what I do or where I go the shame goes with me and to make matters worse, the principal architects of my public violation never fail to gloat or remind me of the sad episode. They wonder why I refuse to partake in their community church aka 'One Nigeria.' They preach how great the oneness is but when I look up I only see the same perverts and/or their children hanging on to my personal effects their parents stole during my public undressing. For a people to have successfully carried and internalized that shame for 44 years and now waking up to a new reality of possible attack and humiliation by the same people? And you say you understand where the emotion is coming from? No you don't. Hell would be 3 orders of magnitude colder than the explosion of the 44 years of suppressed anger, furry, vengeance, and most importantly humiliation. Perhaps, now you understand why the threat from Muslim north and the issue of who's our ally and who's not is infuriating.

2. That Yoruba can and will fight if need be:
I completely agree, not because all humans posses the courage to fight any battle they find worthy but also because the Oyo empire successfully halted Fulani spread southwards. Without taking anything from any group, I believe that its highly likely that Oyo empire saved the whole south from unprepared head-on collision with very organized and murderous Fulani jihadists. And as is always the case, the emaciation of a lion does not negate the size or ferocity of his heart. So, the Yorubas still posses and will continue to posses that lion's heart.

3. Igbos are as aggressive as core north but do not realize it:
This assertion is a huge joke and to make it interesting I would dare anyone to produce an article from our national dailies or from the internet in which there's a flicker of evidence that a non-Igbo was killed in the East because of his or her ethnic group. Of course with the exception of Hausa-Fulani which, as we're aware, receive reprisals after their usual slaughter of southerners in the north. If you can't produce that then I would expect you give us the rationale under which you designate Igbo as aggressive people. Unless you meant we should always keep quiet and roll over for peace's sake or count our body-bags and wait on God.

4. That Igbos unjustly and maliciously attack Yorubas for no reason, and this is one issue that confuses you:
This assertion cuts both ways. To say one group does it while the other is saintly is disingenuous. Its high school so let the high schoolers knock themselves out with it.

5. That Yorubas are potential Igbo allies, perhaps:
Yea, I agree but given the age-old mistrust and the toxic politics of the last 4 years I'm not sure if I'm ready to bet on that.

emiye: War mongers here again, Majority are the usual suspects, the igbos.

Someone on this thread, even said yorubas are the only ones who can break away peacefully, i must say there can be no peaceful unilateral breakway, but an unanimous one.

Igbos banking on war have lost the war before it started, roughly 15 million out of the 30 million igbos in nigeria are not on ibo land., in the event of war, they will be displaced, their means of livelihood sacked, investments will be lost, the human population in ibo land will be increased by 100% in a matter of months, housing needs becomes a problem, scarcity of money, food, available infrastructures overstretched, competition will be stiffer, Only then will you realise the mess you have created for yourself. In other regions, the net migration will lead to drop in population for a region like SW, or a marginal increase in population for some other regions.

Oyo state is just the size of all 5 SE states, imagine over 30million people crammed in to it, with half of them more or less displaced citizens.

Ibos should please keep quiet about war,their standing pre 1967 war is worse off now, they shot themselves in the foot, when they believed so much in one Nigeria than the other regions, migrating outside their region within the country and investing in it .

semitunde:


If I decide to respond to what you put here, it will require a while page. But know this:

1. Histories are histories, what you know about ur may not be the truth, but just a version of it, the version they want you to hear. This goes for all tribes.


2. Many nations have rushed to their ruin in wars based on emotions. The survivors are the strategic nations, and even they do get their fingers burned when they become emotional. ( Vietnam).

3. Don't let the fact that you think your beliefs are correct becloud your judgement that other human think you are wrong. Don't ever fail to find out why. And even when you think they are still wring in their thoughts