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Where Do We Go When We Die? / We Come Back as Lesser Animals When We Die - Satire / What Happens When We Die? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: When We Die! by alexleo(m): 8:54am On Sep 06, 2014 |
Apatheist: You definitely dont have a point thats why you are engaging some distractions. I cant be a party to your distractions. Its either you believe that science and discoveries are infinite and you leave it at that or you dont believe it. Be honest to yourself atleast. |
Re: When We Die! by Nobody: 8:57am On Sep 06, 2014 |
alexleo:What distractions? I agree that the universe is infinite - and still expanding, and we know very little about it. |
Re: When We Die! by alexleo(m): 9:10am On Sep 06, 2014 |
Apatheist: So leave it at that and stop being selective and drawing conclusions anyhow. This issue that the Op raised is too deep for one to rush into conclusions. He is not a christian and therefore wasnt thinking on religious lines. But once in a while one get to think deep about this life and the mysteries surrounding it. Must you castigate religion over every little thing? If you as an atheist dont give deep thoughts about life and its mysteries, there are some other atheists who do and they are not wrong |
Re: When We Die! by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:14am On Sep 06, 2014 |
striktlymi: So much I agree with all you have posted on this thread, I think I will have to cut in here. . . .I am getting confused somewhere. To me, I believe there is nothing like death, and this very life is an illusion. The world as it is and everything around us are creation of our brain. If I may ask, what exactly is 'consciousness'? I define it as 'awareness and reaction'; in this sense, everything in the universe is conscious. But from what I have been reading all since, it appears as if what you guys refer to as consciousness is 'sentience'. I understand that they are synonymous but there is a big difference between both. If my presumption is wrong, I will want you to please correct it. To add more, sentience, mind, self-awareness and 'what you choose to call consciousness are effects of chemical-reaction. What essential in this case is reaction which result from the two or more substances contacting each other. What I mean here is, something can not react without contacting (linked), there after recognising and responding to each other. A case study is vingar and soda. . . . .they react to acid because it presence is recognised when they are mixed together therefore both exchange atoms which reaction effects produce water and carbon dioxide. So with this case, they are conscious. As per sentience, I cant really say. Life can simply mean activeness. In this case, everything is alive and living. Everything are made up of energy and can never get destroyed or dead but only transform. In the right sense, there is no death. The question now is, does sentience carry on after biological death? What do you think is 'self'; does it exist separately on it own or it is illusionary creation of the brain; can it exist outside the body; can it survive death? And lastly, if we sentient/sapient being, we are made up of energy and are 'aware' of our environment; can we then deduce that rocks, sun and urine which are form of energy are sentient, have mind and 'self'? I will like to know your thought on this questions. Thanks 1 Like |
Re: When We Die! by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:19am On Sep 06, 2014 |
alexleo: Bros you need to be able to identify an atheist and a hateist. Most folks here claiming to be atheists are simply hateist who hate everything about religion and would do anything to find fault in it. 1 Like |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 10:58am On Sep 06, 2014 |
alexleo: Dude, you're not paying attention. When you put the concept of the afterlife under a scientific microscope, what you would come up with is the fact that the mere notion of it is utter fiction, a pure fabrication. Science deals with facts, things that can be proven or seen. Things that can make sense to the human perception. Unless you can prove all multicellular organisms possess "souls" that can somehow transforms themselves into another dimension whenever their physical bodies stop functioning, then your logic is baseless, a reasoning borne of "superstition" and "sentiments." Science is infinite and with strong intolerance towards the unreasonable. This is necessary. Why? Imagine that we have a conversation one day and I say to you, "I believe in the 'gerflagenflopple'. You cannot prove that the gerflagenflopple does not exist, therefore it exists." You can see that this is ridiculous. Just because I have invented something out of thin air does not mean that its non-existence is suddenly unprovable. There has to be some evidence that the gerflagenflopple exists in order to assert its existence. Since there is not, it is quite easy to say that the gerflagenflopple is imaginary. Science deals with facts. The concept of the afterlife is not factual, and thus doesn't apply. Case closed. 4 Likes |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 11:05am On Sep 06, 2014 |
Apatheist: You beat me to this. Bravo! |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 1:38pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
Apatheist: No, No And No, I don't agree 1. Consciousness possesses the brain 2. nothing ever really dies, in the case of the human body or the brain it jst reduces consciousness 2. Consciousness is let loose at the advent of death, living the body with so little consciousness that you call it lifeless |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 2:39pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
RayMcBlue: it seems you don't know the meaning of miracle. Because everything is a miracle not just life. |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 2:43pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
RayMcBlue: The big bang is a result of Consciousness,in essence the physical universe is born out of consciousness. So you can't say this consciousness is a byproduct of the human psyche when it is intact the source. Maybe when you understand what consciousness is you would take this topic differently |
Re: When We Die! by mazaje(m): 2:46pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
MrAnony1: I personally do not follow that line of thought that having a before life is necessary to have an after life, i just stated the fact that the afterlife is a man made construct and idea, that is why there are different versions of the afterlife based on the thoughts, fantasies and ideas of those that created the afterlife concept. . . If in the end we still die and rot anyway and are erased from any conscious existence, regardless of whether we strive for peace or for war then what is the point of upholding one and denouncing the other? Because it will make our stay here or earth worthwhile. . .This life is the only one we know of, we don't know of any other one, we can only conceive or have ideas of another one, since this is the only one we know and have experienced then its up to us to make living a worth while experience. . .The idea of an afterlife doesn't help us here at all. . .If we strife for peace we all enjoy and blissful life, if we don't we all suffer, pains and agony. . .That is enough reason for us to pursue peace and see to it that we live moral lives. . .The society flourishes when there is peace and when every one lives moral lives. . . You would have noticed that I didn't bother with the rest of your post as it has nothing to do with whether a belief in an afterlife is consistent with a belief in objective moral duties. You are all over the place. . You didn't bother with the rest of my post because it destroys everything you claim to stand for. . .You claim that people need to live moral lives because of an afterlife without which they have no reason to live morally. . .The points I raised have completely destroyed all what you wrote because according to the world view you hold belief and how you act according to the belief is what matters not whether you lived a morally upright life. . .Under your belief, a muslim has no reason to live morally because according to you god he is already condemned not for believing in his son. . .A hindu has no reason to live morally because his status as a hindu has already condemned him to eternal damnation. . .According to your world view about 70 percent of the people living in the world have already been condemed to eternal damnation, not because they are immoral people but because they hold other beliefs. . .Under your world view moral uprightness is a waste of time, after all according to your god, peoples righteousness are like filthy rags in his eyes, what matters is faith in him and how you act according to the faith you have in hi,. . .You don't have faith in him, you are condemned already. . .Under your world view those that do not share your beliefs have no reason to live moral upright lives because they are already condemned and doomed in the afterlife. . . If you want to discuss with me, you'll need to stay on point my friend. I am staying very much on point. . .I just don't have time for philosophical sophism. . . |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 2:47pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
enigmaotr: And what makes you think animals don't seek a purpose in life? |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 2:51pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
enigmaotr: What rubbish fact? Animals are intelligent, not as intelligent as humans but all animals, even a maggot acts for a purpose |
Re: When We Die! by mazaje(m): 2:53pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
alexleo: My friend, I do not need to die to know that the after life is just a man made idea. . .Look around you there are different versions of the afterlife. . does the fact that science is unable to know if reincarnation is real make it true?. . .Reincarnation just like life after death is a human construct. . .people sat down and came up with all these ideas based on their imaginations. fantasies, and many other factors. . .The fear that death ends it all is something so depressing that we as humans invented reincarnation and life after death in heavenly bliss just to placate our deepest fears or to scare people into believing in what we what them to believe. . . |
Re: When We Die! by benodic: 2:55pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
everything is alive. nothing dies. they simply change form or vibration. the fact that we can no longer perceive the new form with our physical senses does not mean they have stopped existing. for example souls living in the astral plane or first heaven which is closest to earth in terms of vibration can not be seen with our physical eyes. but those whose spiritual eyes are open can perceive them. |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 2:57pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
MrAnony1: mr anony this really is funny as you have just implied that having a good afterlife is judged by living morally not the belief in Christ |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 3:07pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
mazaje: The afterlife is just a human idea and creation that is why there are many different versions of it. . . Some have moved from the after life to reincarnation. . All human ideas and conceptions. . . This is the only life we have and we know. . .any other thing is a lie and pure fantasy and fiction. . . Hmm. You seem to know all the truths and lies, but how can you be sure that there's no afterlife or reincarnation?? Even the most famous of your masters(past scientists) never made such statements 1 Like |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 3:13pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
-Consciousness is a byproduct of the human psyche as a result of chemical reactions. -When the chemical reactions cease, you die. That's the end of it. macof: A body left with little consciousness at the period of demise and at the same time in a lifeless state is a scientific impossibility. The dictionary defines "Lifeless" as dead or apparently dead, hence, something that is "apparently dead" couldn't possibly be left with the remnants of consciousness, however negligible. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. It's the kind of reasoning a sane person can call "delusions of grandeur." 1 Like |
Re: When We Die! by mazaje(m): 3:13pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: If you present objective evidence for an afterlife or reincarnation then i'll believe and accept it. . .till then it remains one of the many fantasies that humans created. . . |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 3:32pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
Apatheist: Afterlife really isn't religion. It's what you believe happens in the afterlife that is a concept of religion Afterlife doesn't affect anybody, it's nt suppose to |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 3:35pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: I understand consciousness just fine. The consciousness is neither ethereal nor spiritual. Let's start with a bacterium. Does it have a consciousness? A bacterium is a cell membrane filled with a variety of molecules. These molecules react together in different ways to create what we call life/consciousness. So what about humans? The human body is nothing but a set of chemical reactions. The chemical reactions powering a human life are no different from the reactions powering the life of a bacterium, a mosquito, a mouse, a dog or a chimp. When a human being dies, the chemical reactions stop, the consciousness ceases. |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 3:40pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
RayMcBlue: Lack of oxygen to the brain and body triggers NDE, now this is just for a short time, ok maybe not short but temporarily Death is a permanent case of lack of oxygen to the brain and body leaving you to a long (probably infinite) period of The experience of NDE Now tell me if that's not afterlife what is?? |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 3:42pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: I'm well aware that NDE is not a direct proof that the concept of an afterlife is imaginary. However, it is a direct proof that the NDE (which many people use as "indisputable" proof that God and eternal life exist) has no supernatural meaning. We can scientificaly prove NDEs to be chemical side-effects rather than "a gateway to the afterlife." |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 3:42pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: Do mosquitoes get an afterlife? Clearly not. Think of how many mosquitoes have lived and died over the course of millions of years. No one imagines heaven being full of septillions of everlasting mosquitoes. I could be wrong though. |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 3:46pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
RayMcBlue: -Consciousness is a byproduct of the human psyche as a result of chemical reactions. first sit down and think through consciousness, the statement makes all the sense in the world A lifeless body still has consciousness, I didn't say sentience. Sentience is just a high level of consciousness |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 3:55pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
mazaje: We are discussing this through aren't we?? I haven't experienced afterlife in any sort but it makes total sense as I have thought about it's possibility.. I don't care about heaven or hell, but having an experienced after death |
Re: When We Die! by macof(m): 4:03pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
RayMcBlue: And what stops a maggot that dies before it metamorphosed into a fly from getting an afterlife?? As long as you have life, the moment you loose it and begin to experience something else, that's afterlife I don't believe in heaven, and I believe in reincarnation so don't worry about billions of mosquitos 1 Like |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 4:04pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: Error... Error... Error... Error... Error... I need that shìt you're smoking, bro. Shìt seems real. |
Re: When We Die! by Nobody: 4:06pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: The Afterlife is a concept of religion. |
Re: When We Die! by Nobody: 4:12pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof:WTF? |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 4:28pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
Double post. |
Re: When We Die! by RayMcBlue(m): 4:33pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
macof: Lolz. Imagine that I tell you this story: -A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business. -A very bright flash of light appeared. -A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times. -Then the man asked, "What should I read?" -The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging zygote. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before." -The man ran home to his wife. -While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel. -At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams. -Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. - Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth. What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical and rightfully so. But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Qur'an. This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind. Despite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? Seriously?? That is imaginary, as is reincarnation. |
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