Y'all are just throwing words. If you guys are not creating a clear path, I dont know how you all will reach a conclusion.

RayMcBlue, Mazaje and Apatheist, I will want you guys to define life. (please do stress it beyound biology)

You all can never understand the point Macof is trying to drive if grounds are not clear enough.

What is consciousness? How can you differentiate this from awareness and sentience?

Also, are we agreeing that human are made up of energy. . . .if this is the case, do we really die? Can reactions ever stop in us?

RayMcBlue:

I'm well aware that NDE is not a direct proof that the concept of an afterlife is imaginary. However, it is a direct proof that the NDE (which many people use as "indisputable" proof that God and eternal life exist) has no supernatural meaning. We can scientificaly prove NDEs to be chemical side-effects rather than "a gateway to the afterlife."

Supernatural What's all this about supernatural?.what is supernatural and what makes it different from natural.

Because as I know all things are Natural, because you can't explain it doesn't change that fact
Btw I've been trying to explain afterlife since so I don't know why you call it supernatural

Apatheist:

The Afterlife is a concept of religion.

Do u have problems reading and comprehending simple words?

macof:

Supernatural What's all this about supernatural?.what is supernatural and what makes it different from natural.

Because as I know all things are Natural, because you can't explain it doesn't change that fact
Btw I've been trying to explain afterlife since so I don't know why you call it supernatural

Afterlife is within the auspices of the supernatural.

RayMcBlue:

Afterlife is within the auspices of the supernatural.

Oga what has supernatural got to do with life and afterlife?

RayMcBlue:

Afterlife is within the auspices of the supernatural.

How? What is supernatural?

RayMcBlue:



In the same way, it is obvious that human beings are big, walking chemical reactions. When the chemical reactions cease, you die. That is the end of it. No afterlife.

How can you be so sure? At least preface this comment by saying, IMO. To say that consciousness is poorly understood by science would be an UNDERstatement.

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/iep_utm?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iep.utm.edu%2Fconsciou%2F&dm_redirected=true#2791

FOLYKAZE: Y'all are just throwing words. If you guys are not creating a clear path, I dont know how you all will reach a conclusion.

RayMcBlue, Mazaje and Apatheist, I will want you guys to define life. (please do stress it beyound biology)

You all can never understand the point Macof is trying to drive if grounds are not clear enough.

What is consciousness? How can you differentiate this from awareness and sentience?

Also, are we agreeing that human are made up of energy. . . .if this is the case, do we really die? Can reactions ever stop in us?

Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . When you die the chemical reactions in your system breaks down into something else. Your body disintegrates and forms part of the soil for example, the energy is converted into something else that is totally different from you. . .Again does consciousness survive bodily death, that I believe is what this topic is all about. . .

macof:

We are discussing this through aren't we??
I haven't experienced afterlife in any sort but it makes total sense as[b] I have thought about it's possibility[/b]..

I don't care about heaven or hell, but having an experienced after death

It was those that thought about it's possibility that also brought us the idea of heaven, hell and reincarnation. . .How do I live when am dead?. . .Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . .

macof:

No, No And No, I don't agree

1. Consciousness possesses the brain
2. nothing ever really dies, in the case of the human body or the brain it jst reduces consciousness
2. Consciousness is let loose at the advent of death, living the body with so little consciousness that you call it lifeless

You made sense here.

Weah96:

How can you be so sure? At least preface this comment by saying, IMO. To say that consciousness is poorly understood by science would be an UNDERstatement.

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/iep_utm?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iep.utm.edu%2Fconsciou%2F&dm_redirected=true#2791

for once i agree with your statement here

The predisposition to religious belief is the most complex and powerful force in human mind and in all probability an ineradicable part of human nature.

Somethings do not just add up if you approach some issues with science or common sense. The issue of afterlife is one of those things that's beyond science and common sense. If I walk from Abuja to Lagos in 5 minutes(don't tell me it's not possible), how do you explain that with science approach?
Whether you believe it or not, there is God, Devil and afterlife is real, not fantasies.

mazaje:

My friend, I do not need to die to know that the after life is just a man made idea. . .Look around you there are different versions of the afterlife. . does the fact that science is unable to know if reincarnation is real make it true?. . .Reincarnation just like life after death is a human construct. . .people sat down and came up with all these ideas based on their imaginations. fantasies, and many other factors. . .The fear that death ends it all is something so depressing that we as humans invented reincarnation and life after death in heavenly bliss just to placate our deepest fears or to scare people into believing in what we what them to believe. . .

What do you think after life is? A tiny room where everybody that goes into it can come out and tell the same story about? No bro. As the universe is so vast that we cant all describe it same way, so is the after life. You cant expect the same story from all who have experienced a glimpse of it.

mazaje:

It was those that thought about it's possibility that also brought us the idea of heaven, hell and reincarnation. . .How do I live when am dead?. . .Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . .

like those that thought about the possibility of vampires and superman brought up the ideas??

Come on, this isn't about heaven, I told you I don't believe in heaven or hell

mazaje:

Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . When you die the chemical reactions in your system breaks down into something else. Your body disintegrates and forms part of the soil for example, the energy is converted into something else that is totally different from you. . .Again does consciousness survive bodily death, that I believe is what this topic is all about. . .

Your answers lie close to the questions I asked which is begging for answers.


Mind providing answers and quit dodging everything or turning the table around?

What is life? How do you identify what is alive and not alive?

When Sun is said to die in the future, it mean it is alive. . . .how can you stress your definition of 'life' to dying sun?

What is consciousness. . .how can you differetiate it from awareness and sentience?

If we human who are made up of energy can be conscious, can we then say every other thing made up of energy is conscious?

Carl Sagan said, “We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.” Being a conscious being, we are part of the universe. . . .just like the chunk between our process our consciousness while other part of the body can be regard to as non-conscious component but our whole body is perceive as a conscious body, can we then refer to our whole universe as conscious because we been part of it is conscious?


Thses are the question you should answer. It will make you and I understand our postion. . .then we can proceed over to if consciousness and death survival.

mazaje:

It was those that thought about it's possibility that also brought us the idea of heaven, hell and reincarnation. . .How do I live when am dead?. . .Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . .

Oga how many time will you be told that there is nothing like death but mere illusion of separation?

I wonder how person who has not clarify what life is would be talking of what death is. . .

mazaje:

Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . When you die the chemical reactions in your system breaks down into something else. Your body disintegrates and forms part of the soil for example, the energy is converted into something else that is totally different from you. . .Again does consciousness survive bodily death, that I believe is what this topic is all about. . .

Yes consciousness survives, there's a lot of energies reacting in our human body and life in general one of which is our individual consciousness which Yoruba call Ori, Igbo call chi, I hear the greeks called it Krestos.
what do you think happens to this consciousness when our human body converts to something else?

You think it just disappears into "nothing" right? Well we can argue nothing is a realm unseen.
Or you say it converts with the rest of our body by forming part of the soil?? Consciousness is not material/physical so this is out of the way

when we need that individual consciousness is let loose and returns to where it came

FOLYKAZE:

Your answers lie close to the questions I asked which is begging for answers.


Mind providing answers and quit dodging everything or turning the table around?

What is life? How do you identify what is alive and not alive?

When Sun is said to die in the future, it mean it is alive. . . .how can you stress your definition of 'life' to dying sun?

What is consciousness. . .how can you differetiate it from awareness and sentience?

If we human who are made up of energy can be conscious, can we then say every other thing made up of energy is conscious?

Carl Sagan said, “We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.” Being a conscious being, we are part of the universe. . . .just like the chunk between our process our consciousness while other part of the body can be regard to as non-conscious component but our whole body is perceive as a conscious body, can we then refer to our whole universe as conscious because we been part of it is conscious?


Thses are the question you should answer. It will make you and I understand our postion. . .then we can proceed over to if consciousness and death survival.

Long epistle that says nothing. . .does human consiousness survive bodily death. . If yes how?. . Answer it and stop throwing around big words. . .

macof:

Yes consciousness survives, there's a lot of energies reacting in our human body and life in general one of which is our individual consciousness which Yoruba call Ori, Igbo call chi, I hear the greeks called it Krestos.
what do you think happens to this consciousness when our human body converts to something else?

You think it just disappears into "nothing" right? Well we can argue nothing is a realm unseen.
Or you say it converts with the rest of our body by forming part of the soil?? Consciousness is not material/physical so this is out of the way

when we need that individual consciousness is let loose and returns to where it came

If consiousness is a form of energy as you say and the body dies then the energy changes into something else that is not consiousness. . .just as when you die your body forms part of the soil which is not you as a human being. . .

FOLYKAZE:

Oga how many time will you be told that there is nothing like death but mere illusion of separation?

I wonder how person who has not clarify what life is would be talking of what death is. . .

There is nothing like death according to your delusions? . . .what am I to do with your delusions?. . .so people do not die but are separated, eh?. . .Separated from what? I don't have time for your constant reinvention and delusions. .

mazaje:

Long epistle that says nothing. . .does human consiousness survive bodily death. . If yes how?. . Answer it and stop throwing around big words. . .

Egba mi o. . . .

How is this an epistle?

Can you show me the big words in my previous post?

At this junction man, pls tell us what human consciousness is. And can you pls specify the difference it has with stone consciousness or sun consciousness?

Asking me if human consciousness could survive death is not making sense until you tell me what human consciousness is. . . . .

What do you mean by bodily death? When part of the body is amputated and dead, how does this affect consciousness?


Lets get down to death. . . . .what is life? Does biological death affect 'activeness' of energy in the dead body?



Just for goodness sake answer this questions. . . .

mazaje:

There is nothing like death according to your delusions? . . .what am I to do with your delusions?. . .so people do not die but are separated, eh?. . .Separated from what? I don't have time for your constant reinvention and delusions. .

Where did I say death is separation?

You have to calm down when you are dealing with me. . . . .most essentially, save your emotions. . . . .not going to bring sense out of you.


There is nothing like death. . . . .though we perceive it exist because of the illusion of separation that clouded us. Here is a link on what illusion of separation is http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/06/02/quantum-physics-tells-us-separation-is-only-an-illusion/

The Yoruba where from it spirituality my believe system is rooted would say 'Emi re ti re koja' meaning 'ones breath (energy-esoteric) has passed on to another realm. In this sense, there is nothing like death but transformation or changing of forms from one to another realm.


This is very simple

mazaje:

If consiousness is a form of energy as you say and the body dies then the energy changes into something else that is not consiousness. . .just as when you die your body forms part of the soil which is not you as a human being. . .

Where he take tell you consciousness is energy?

FOLYKAZE:

Egba mi o. . . .

How is this an epistle?

Can you show me the big words in my previous post?

At this junction man, pls tell us what human consciousness is. And can you pls specify the difference it has with stone consciousness or sun consciousness?

Stone consciousness?. . .How is a stone conscious?. . .Human consciousness is the or state of awareness, self awareness or of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. . .Is a stone aware of itself and other things around it?. . .

Asking me if human consciousness could survive death is not making sense until you tell me what human consciousness is. . . . .

What do you mean by bodily death? When part of the body is amputated and dead, how does this affect consciousness?

By bodily death you know very well that I mean the whole body, not the nonsense you are trying to say here. . .Does human consciousness survive when the whole body and brain is dead?. . .Consciousness is a function of the brain chemical activities and without the brain you can't be conscious, so again does consciousness survive when the brain is dead?. . .

Lets get down to death. . . . .what is life? Does biological death affect 'activeness' of energy in the dead body?

Yes, when you die the energy and how it flows is changed, it converts and disintegrates into something else that is not you. . .You become part of the soil, if you die in the oceans for example over time you turn into crude oil. . .Again how does consciousness survive when the brain and the whole body is dead?. . .

FOLYKAZE:

Where he take tell you consciousness is energy?

Here. . .

macof:

Yes consciousness survives, there's a lot of energies reacting in our human body and life in general one of which is our individual consciousness which Yoruba call Ori, Igbo call chi, I hear the greeks called it Krestos.

he said consciousness is one of the energies reacting in our bodies. . .

FOLYKAZE:

Where did I say death is separation?

You have to calm down when you are dealing with me. . . . .most essentially, save your emotions. . . . .not going to bring sense out of you.


There is nothing like death. . . . .though we perceive it exist because of the illusion of separation that clouded us. Here is a link on what illusion of separation is http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/06/02/quantum-physics-tells-us-separation-is-only-an-illusion/

What do you mean by there is nothing like death?. . .even the link you posted seems to be an assumption, it doesn't even go that far. . .The link uses words like maybe. . .

As we research smaller and smaller units of matter, it has became clear to some that there is perhaps no final unit waiting to be discovered but a fundamental unity to everything. Physicist David Bohm, whose work is described in Michael Talbot’s the Holographic Universe, calls the fundamental unity at the end of all matter the implicate order. David Wilcock makes reference to the Source Field.

It can best be said to be a speculative hypothesis. . .From the link. .Besides its not even agreed by all but some. . .

The Yoruba where from it spirituality my believe system is rooted would say 'Emi re ti re koja' meaning 'ones breath (energy-esoteric) has passed on to another realm. In this sense, there is nothing like death but transformation or changing of forms from one to another realm.


This is very simple

What am I to do with your Yoruba mythology?. . .Does human consciousness continue when you die?. . Will you be fully conscious when you die?. . .Where is the evidence for this?. . .

mazaje:

Stone consciousness?. . .How is a stone conscious?. . . Human consciousness is the or state of awareness, self awareness or of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. . . Is a stone aware of itself and other things around it?. . .

We are discussing about consciousness and you are here forcing human consciousness into the topic as if consciousness is of specific to human alone. This is the reason why I asked you if we can also talk about stone consciousness too.

Not to talk much, stone is conscious. . . .depending on how you define what consciousness is.

And going by your definition in bold, how can you tell that stone is not aware of it environment?

mazaje:
By bodily death you know very well that I mean the whole body, not the nonsense you are trying to say here. . .Does human consciousness survive when the whole body and brain is dead?. . . Consciousness is a function of the brain chemical activities and without the brain you can't be conscious, so again does consciousness survive when the brain is dead?. . .

Probably you mean sentience with the bold. Ya, I understand it is synonymous to sentience but it is not the same thing as consciousness. This is the reason I asked you to define comprehensively what consciousness is.

I cant fathom why you are dodging this question.

mazaje:
Yes, when you die the energy and how it flows is changed, it converts and disintegrates into something else that is not you. . .You become part of the soil, if you die in the oceans for example over time you turn into crude oil. . .Again how does consciousness survive when the brain and the whole body is dead?. . .

You are still not getting it. . . .until you define what consciousness is, everyother thing you write wont have any meaning.



Let me help with my dico. .

- it is a state of being conscious.

Conscious is:


- aware of and responding to one's surrounding.

- awareness and reaction.

Awareness:


knowing that something exists, or having knowledge or experience of a particular thing.




How can plant respond or react to sunlight if it is not aware of it? When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode, how does this happen if it not aware of it surrounding prompting to it reaction? Mimosa pudica respond to touch from it surrounding. . . . .how can this happen if it does not have awareness of touch? Venus flytrap instantaneous response touch and the way the plant snapped its trap shut around an insect indicated the presence of awareness and sentience. . . . .or how can the plant set trap and capture insect without have sense of touch or ability of awareness and responds to it surrounding?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-plants-think-daniel-chamovitz/

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/062208/do-plants-have-brains

Do have a read at those two links

Can we agree plant is conscious?


Takes reation to everything we have around. Things responding to something in a particular way can be said to be reacting to it surroundings which it must be aware of.

A chemical reaction for example. One chemical would react to another in it surrounding because it aware of the properties of the other chemical.

How can vingar react to soda if they aint aware of each other properties?

If being conscious is responding to one surroundings, chemicals and every other thing are conscious because they respond to their surroundings. . .and especially externa objects.

NB: you cannot react to something you are not aware of.

In short, everything is conscious.



My take

mazaje:

Here. . .



he said consciousness is one of the energies reacting in our bodies. . .

He might mean something else. . ..

Ori is the reflective spark of consciousness. . . . .

mazaje:

What do you mean by there is nothing like death?. . .even the link you posted seems to be an assumption, it doesn't even go that far. . .The link uses words like maybe. . .

As we research smaller and smaller units of matter, it has became clear to some that there is perhaps no final unit waiting to be discovered but a fundamental unity to everything. Physicist David Bohm, whose work is described in Michael Talbot’s the Holographic Universe, calls the fundamental unity at the end of all matter the implicate order. David Wilcock makes reference to the Source Field.

It can best be said to be a speculative hypothesis. . .From the link. .Besides its not even agreed by all but some. . .



What am I to do with your Yoruba mythology?. . .Does human consciousness continue when you die?. . Will you be fully conscious when you die?. . .Where is the evidence for this?. . .

If a link is not supporting your view, it is then assumption. How do you expect every one to accept the sane thing?

Even the link is not about death, it is about the illusion of separation.


Biological death is not he end of activeness. . . .simple like ABC.


Oga tell me what consciousness is. . . . .then I can tell if it survive death.

FOLYKAZE:
We are discussing about consciousness and you are here forcing human consciousness into the topic as if consciousness is of specific to human alone. This is the reason why I asked you if we can also talk about stone consciousness too.
Not to talk much, stone is conscious. . . .depending on how you define what consciousness is.
And going by your definition in bold, how can you tell that stone is not aware of it environment?

This is why I keep saying that you are very deluded. . .This topic is specifically about human consciousness but in your normal deluded ways you want to push it into something else. . .I gave you the definition of human consciousness but in your normal deluded ways you deny it and want to consciousness to go by you own definition. . .Does a stone respond to anything around it?. . .If i hit a touch or pour something on a stone will it respond the way a human would?. . .Are you saying a stone is aware of its environment?. . .Can you show how?. . .

Probably you mean sentience with the bold. Ya, I understand it is synonymous to sentience but it is not the same thing as consciousness. This is the reason I asked you to define comprehensively what consciousness is.
I cant fathom why you are dodging this question.
You are still not getting it. . . .until you define what consciousness is, everyother thing you write wont have any meaning.
Let me help with my dico. .
- it is a state of being conscious.
Conscious is:

- aware of and responding to one's surrounding.
- awareness and reaction.
Awareness:

knowing that something exists, or having knowledge or experience of a particular thing.

How can plant respond or react to sunlight if it is not aware of it? When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode, how does this happen if it not aware of it surrounding prompting to it reaction? Mimosa pudica respond to touch from it surrounding. . . . .how can this happen if it does not have awareness of touch? Venus flytrap instantaneous response touch and the way the plant snapped its trap shut around an insect indicated the presence of awareness and sentience. . . . .or how can the plant set trap and capture insect without have sense of touch or ability of awareness and responds to it surrounding?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-plants-think-daniel-chamovitz/
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/062208/do-plants-have-brains
Do have a read at those two links
Can we agree plant is conscious?
Takes reation to everything we have around. Things responding to something in a particular way can be said to be reacting to it surroundings which it must be aware of.
A chemical reaction for example. One chemical would react to another in it surrounding because it aware of the properties of the other chemical.
How can vingar react to soda if they aint aware of each other properties?
If being conscious is responding to one surroundings, chemicals and every other thing are conscious because they respond to their surroundings. . .and especially externa objects.
NB: you cannot react to something you are not aware of.
In short, everything is conscious.
My take

I have already giving you the definition of human consciousness and that is what this topic is all about. . .Your delusions will not allow you to accept it, this topic is not about plants if you want to start a topic about plants go open one., . .Does human consciousness survive when the brain and the entire body does?. . .By the way the fact that plants respond to stimuli does not make them conscious like humans. . .So chemicals that react to each other are conscious of each other?. . .Your delusions is reacting new lows. . .Do you know what a chemical reaction is?. . .

FOLYKAZE:

If a link is not supporting your view, it is then assumption. How do you expect every one to accept the sane thing?

Even the link is not about death, it is about the illusion of separation.


Biological death is not he end of activeness. . . .simple like ABC.


Oga tell me what consciousness is. . . . .then I can tell if it survive death.

The link it self specifically used the word maybe on the premise of the thesis leaving the entire hypothesis in the realm of assumption. . .I did not write it, the person that did clearly left the hypothesis in the realm of assumption, by the way as you noted it has nothing to do with death so I wonder why you brought it up. . .I have already given you the definition of human consciousness, if you want to go around talking about things that are off topic then go create a separate thread, this topic is about human consciousness and whether it survives when the human body dies. . .Again does human consciousnesses survive the death of the entire body?. ..

mazaje:

The link it self specifically used the word maybe on the premise of the thesis leaving the entire hypothesis in the realm of assumption. . .I did not write it, the person that did clearly left the hypothesis in the realm of assumption, by the way as you noted it has nothing to do with death so I wonder why you brought it up. . .I have already given you the definition of human consciousness, if you want to go around talking about things that are off topic then go create a separate thread, this topic is about human consciousness and whether it survives when the human body dies. . .Again does human consciousnesses survive the death of the entire body?. ..

What you refer to as human consciousness is nothing more than sentience. As it is, if human consciousness define as sentience, it cannot survive death but the center of all cognition which is MIND can of course survive death.


The Russian scientists are working tirelessly on who they can save mind after the body is dead on a cyber space. . . . . . .not withstanding, it is been done in Yoruba spirituality as Egungun.