cloudstar:

All this just to explain the actions of ISIS/ISIL? NA Wa!

You are not that smart. If you are, you would know this is admonition, and perhaps, proverb. Subject of ilm Akhir zaman is sensitive one. Care must be taken while studying it. The thing is many of you christian people only intend to mock. I knew that from day one and that's exactly what you've being doing. So i better just mute.

Empiree: You are not that smart. If you are, you would know this is admonition, and perhaps, proverb. Subject of ilm Akhir zaman is sensitive one. Care must be taken while studying it. The thing is many of you christian people only intend to mock. I knew that from day one and that's exactly what you've being doing. So i better just mute.

The topic is: Is ISIS\ISIL Islamic?

It is expected of you to shed more light on the activities of this Islamic 'calipahte' terrorist and proove that they do not serve the interest of the larger muslims population (especially the sunni muslims in iraq and syria).

Your unbiased and objective contribution will be welcome.

Okay, now you seem to make sense. I hope you will think and respond intelligently. My responses in blue

arsenalwenger: The topic is: Is ISIS\ISIL Islamic?
No, they are NOT. simple as that. They are fighting "Yankee J/i/h/a/d".(note: your defense may be 'but they quote Quran, speak arab' and all that. To safe long argument back n fourth, i say to you investigate, search, study and come to your conclusion if you can. Fair enough)?.

It is expected of you to shed more light on the activities of this Islamic 'calipahte' terrorist and proove that they do not serve the interest of the larger muslims population (especially the sunni muslims in iraq and syria).
No, they do not share larger interest of muslim population. They are serving elites. The reason they do not serve interest of muslim population is obvious from hadith(saying of prophet Muhammad-peace be upon him). In his famous hadith, he gave "timeline" of events that will eventually culminate the return of true Kilafah(caliphate). This true Kilafah will base on justice, to liberate oppressed from oppression. If you study recent history dating back to at least 100yrs ago, the same people who created this bogus caliphate did create something like this before. Just study and learn with respect.

Your unbiased and objective contribution will be welcome.

I hope I am not biased in my responses. Listen bro, it's deep than meet the eyes. Just that our christian brothers are too arrogant but definitely not all of them. I much prefer talking to Orthodox Christians. They reason. They study eschatology. Their and our eschatology are almost the same with some differences. Quran speaks and hadith speaks also a lot on current events.

Note: there are muslims who join those crazies. They in fact, faithfully and sincerely believe they for right cause. They are just blind and that's their problem. If you pay close attention since arab uprising, the same freaking people are supported by secular west against muslim govt like Gaddafi and Assad. Then, they were "freedom fighters" and now they are "caliphate" to terrorists. OPEN YOUR EYES WIDE, PAL

Empiree: You are not that smart. If you are, you would know this is admonition, and perhaps, proverb. Subject of ilm Akhir zaman is sensitive one. Care must be taken while studying it. The thing is many of you christian people only intend to mock. I knew that from day one and that's exactly what you've being doing. So i better just mute.

You fail to realize that some of us where born Muslims and part of our families where Arabs that have their lineage deeply rooted in Islam. I am not one to play with words and try to be politically correct when it comes to issues of faith. My mother was a Catholic and my father is a Muslim, so before you assume you know what I am thinking - pause and wash your face.

When I left high school, I was faced with the question that had been bothering me most of my life - Is the God in the Bible and the God in the Quran the same. I decided to find out for myself using historical method of both Islam and Christianity. Most importantly, I asked God Almighty to reveal Himself to me.

As a kid, my father taught me that Islam is the one and true religion and all other religions are false. As a Muslim, I was to submit to Allah and be his slave. On the other hand, my mother taught me that the God in the Bible doesn't want me to submit, He wants me to freely choose.

I will stop here for now but don't assume to you know others just because they have a different point of view. All we need to know about Islam is in the Quran, the Sunnah of Mohammad and the Sira - FULL STOP!. Any other idea, introduction of modern theories or explanation falls short.

The same way, all one needs to know about Christianity is to look at the teachings of Jesus the Christ and His Teachings main in the New Testament and the Bible.

cloudstar, I see, you are truly elementary. This subject is beyond your thinking capacity. So let's leave it here because dragging me back to how your mom and dad perceived religion while you growing up really too elementary for me. When you grow up, then you can learn this subject. For now, I guess you should keep dreaming in christian god is diff from muslim god. That's just too childish for me.

Empiree: cloudstar, I see, you are truly elementary. This subject is beyond your thinking capacity. So let's leave it here because dragging me back to how your mom and dad perceived religion while you growing up really too elementary for me. When you grow up, then you can learn this subject. For now, I guess you should keep dreaming in christian god is diff from muslim god. That's just too childish for me.

Maybe it's childish for you because you probably like the requisite knowledge about the subject. Even to the casual observer, the Christian God and the Muslim god are different. Even when the Jewish God was the God of war. Even when He was a jealous God who visits the iniquity of the father to the third generation, His attributes are still every different from the god the Muslims are servants of.

What happened to God being the same yesterday, today, and forever more...
What do you mean by jewish God and christian God?
*dont mind me, I forgot the thread topic, carry on*

Empiree: Okay, now you seem to make sense. I hope you will think and respond intelligently. My responses in blue
I hope I am not biased in my responses. Listen bro, it's deep than meet the eyes. Just that our christian brothers are too arrogant but definitely not all of them. I much prefer talking to Orthodox Christians. They reason. They study eschatology. Their and our eschatology are almost the same with some differences. Quran speaks and hadith speaks also a lot on current events.

Note: there are muslims who join those crazies. They in fact, faithfully and sincerely believe they for right cause. They are just blind and that's their problem. If you pay close attention since arab uprising, the same freaking people are supported by secular west against muslim govt like Gaddafi and Assad. Then, they were "freedom fighters" and now they are "caliphate" to terrorists. OPEN YOUR EYES WIDE, PAL

Do you have koranic verses, alhadith and the sunna to back-up your response since the ISIS are backing up their actions with the afore-mentioned islamic materials? Note that their leader has a phd in islamic studies (with the information i have), so he is an xpert in islamic knowledge\teachings\escathology and also a devout muslim.

As I said earlier, muslims world over will usually go to the street protesting, burning and killing anytime the prophet is insulted, the koran is desecrated or Islam is spoken against. So if ISIS is not an Islamic group, why cant muslims also violently protest on the street condemning the activities of the ISIS.

Empiree: cloudstar, I see, you are truly elementary. This subject is beyond your thinking capacity. So let's leave it here because dragging me back to how your mom and dad perceived religion while you growing up really too elementary for me. When you grow up, then you can learn this subject. For now, I guess you should keep dreaming in christian god is diff from muslim god. That's just too childish for me.

Bros, some of us fully understand Islamic theology and traditions. To come here and start using an excuse to give an answer is at best cowardly and border line stupi.d. I told you earlier, if you don't have anything to say - please sit down and shut up

All we need to know about Islam is in the Quran, the Sunnah of Mohammad and the Sira - FULL STOP!. Any other idea, introduction of modern theories or explanation falls short. If you can't provide an answer for these - take a chill pill and sit down

cloudstar:

Bros, some of us fully understand Islamic theology and traditions. To come here and start using an excuse to give an answer is at best cowardly and border line stupi.d. I told you earlier, if you don't have anything to say - please sit down and shut up

All we need to know about Islam is in the Quran, the Sunnah of Mohammad and the Sira - FULL STOP!. Any other idea, introduction of modern theories or explanation falls short. If you can't provide an answer for these - take a chill pill and sit down

@bold, really? and what's stopping you from accepting it if you "fully understand" it?. As for answer you want, your question is technically stupi.d. Why dont you take flight to iraq and ask those fellas who they really are and what their mission is rather than bothering innocent people here?. I actually chose to not answer arsenalwenger on purpose. He seems to make sense than you but I wanted him to take a "tour search".

Empiree:
@bold, really? and what's stopping you from accepting it if you "fully understand" it?. As for answer you want, your question is technically stupi.d. Why dont you take flight to iraq and ask those fellas who they really are and what their mission is rather than bothering innocent people here?. I actually chose to not answer arsenalwenger on purpose. He seems to make sense than you but I wanted him to take a "tour search".

No sane person will accept a religios teaching that sanctions the killing of infidels as a religious duty. No logical person will sanction a religion that sees nothing wrong for a 54 year old man to sleep with a 9 year old girl. No sane african can accept a religion that approve marryin a first cousin, it is incest to African culture and good in islamic and arab culture.
I wont accept a religion that teach pupils, from their childhood, to view xtains and Jews as eternal enemies. I wont accept a religion that is widely known to have conqured lands, via war, before establishing mini-caliphates, especially in africa and asia.

Recently world powers asked the arab to form a military coalition to defeat ISIS, but the sunni dominated arab and muslim world are reluctant to do that. This is because muslims are not koranically permitted to fight their fellow muslims.

The western powers, tryin to fool the muslim world in order to gain their support against ISLAMIC STATE, are singing that 'ISIS are not true islam', 'they do not represent large numbers of peaceful muslims'. However the muslim world do not buy into the western power's hypocrisy hence they refuse to mobilize force against the ISIS.

The muslim world will go against the koran if they fight the ISLAMIC STATE.

Is it now an offence that can lead to death in trying to be an aid worker within the war worn parts of the middle east, according to the story in the link below:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2757258/Hostage-Alan-Henning-kidnapped-IS-just-30mins-entering-Syria-thanks-tip-corrupt-official-incredibly-terrorist-group-Al-Qaeda-tried-released-grounds-taking-unIslamic.html

[quote author=Empiree]

@bold, really? and what's stopping you from accepting it if you "fully understand" it?.

The topic is not about accepting Islamic theology. You are bringing that up. I asked you a simple question and you have been running around in circles to provide a simple answer

As for answer you want, your question is technically stupi.d.

That is all I wanted - you don't have anything to say or your religious leanings makes you ashamed on the violence Islam is perpetuating among-st it's adherents and toward non-muslims as well

Why dont you take flight to Iraq and ask those fellas who they really are and what their mission is rather than bothering innocent people here?.

Do I need to go to Iraq to see the atrocities muslims are committing against themselves. Do I need to go to northern Nigeria to see that Boko Haram is killing, raping and robbing?

I actually chose to not answer arsenalwenger on purpose. He seems to make sense than you but I wanted him to take a "tour search".

Then sit down and shut up since you don't have anything to say.

arsenalwenger: Recently world powers asked the arab to form a military coalition to defeat ISIS, but the sunni dominated arab and muslim world are reluctant to do that. This is because muslims are not koranically permitted to fight their fellow muslims.

Originally, when ISIS emerged, the Iraqis couldn't tell where their loyalty stood. On one hand there is the government growing secular every day and there is the this ever strengthening group armed to the teeth, ready to give their life for return of full sharia law as outlined in "Quran and Sunnah". Then again, there is this wide spread belief among them that a man(Mahdi) will arise towards armageddon, unite all the muslims, help defeat all the non-muslims, eliminate oppression, restore muslims to the top and implement full sharia law that have been forgotten today! Could Baghdadi be this man?
It wasn't untill they were dealt heavy blows by ISIS that some of them made it back to reality.

Middle Eastern governments can't fight ISIS as US demand. This is because theocrats are still debating which option is the least haram of the two;

A. Support infidels(that drink, deal in usury, consume pork) to fight their militant brothers(who abstain from music, fornication & fast twice weekly).
B. Vise versa

Otherwise, just keep to themselves in their ivory towers reading eschatology here and there.

may God of Abraham deliver us from the shackles of ignorance and deceit from among jinnkind and mankind.

Empiree: may God of Abraham deliver us from the shackles of ignorance and deceit from among jinnkind and mankind.

May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob give you the guts to be honest

Empiree: may God of Abraham deliver us from the shackles of ignorance and deceit from among jinnkind and mankind.

May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacoc deliver us from the shackles of ignorance and deceit from jinnkind and mankind.

Mee234:
The number must be much because almost every terror act is base on Islam. From Nigeria to Somalia, Irag, Iran. e. t. c. If you feel the number is insignificant, than the majority are not doing enough to negate the actions of this bad few.

I think i can come in now, my brothers it goes a long way when you sit down and ask yourself some questions which will lead to a good research. WHY MUSLIMS LIKE THIS? WHAT DOES QURAN TEACHES, after being born as a muslim i had to at a certain time sit down and ask myself WHAT IF MY DAD WAS WRONG ABOUT RELIGION. i believe each and everyone of us should do thesame, then you will learn and find out the truth about islam (peace) ....then why war.
please am on the research WHY XTAINS EAT PORK despite wat leviticus 11:7-9 says. so to round up pls sit down do some research abt the concept of islam then you will foundout if all dis boko haram and iss stuff is political or not.

bakandow11

I think i can come in now, my brothers it goes a long way when you sit down and ask yourself some questions which will lead to a good research. WHY MUSLIMS LIKE THIS? WHAT DOES QURAN TEACHES, after being born as a muslim i had to at a certain time sit down and ask myself WHAT IF MY DAD WAS WRONG ABOUT RELIGION. i believe each and everyone of us should do thesame, then you will learn and find out the truth about islam (peace) ....then why war.

I agree with you. I think everyone of us should do an objective research about their beliefs. I used to be a Muslim but I am no more for several reasons

please am on the research WHY XTAINS EAT PORK despite wat leviticus 11:7-9 says. so to round up pls sit down do some research abt the concept of islam then you will foundout if all dis boko haram and iss stuff is political or not.

If you understand the Christian teachings of Jesus then you will understand how the laws of the old testament fits into Christian lives. The laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy were the laws of Moses and the Jews couldn't live up to it. For example, the laws of Moses taught that if you commit adultery, you should be stoned to death. The law of God - 10 commandments doesn't issue a punishment but tells us not to commit adultery.

Christians look at Jesus teaching on the subject; instead of obeying the law of Moses that encourages stoning of adultery, He set a new precedence - don't do it again, you are forgiven. Christians take the same approach to the issue of pork - Jews were under the law of Moses and restricted with certain food laws, as a Christian; you can decide to eat pork or not; it's up to you. However, the teachings are clear on the subject:

[b]Matthew 15:17-20
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." KJV

Mark 7:15-19
"There is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. [" If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.) NASB[/b]

Personally I don't eat pork for health reasons but if it was the only food in the world and I had no other choice, I would eat it. However, eating it isn't sin

cloudstar: If you understand the Christian teachings of Jesus then you will understand how the laws of the old testament fits into Christian lives. The laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy were the laws of Moses and the Jews couldn't live up to it. For example, the laws of Moses taught that if you commit adultery, you should be stoned to death. The law of God - 10 commandments doesn't issue a punishment but tells us not to commit adultery.

Peace. I agree with you that the laws in the OT aren't binding upon Christians just as the laws in the NT aren't binding upon muslims. But i disagree that Jews couldn't live up to the laws in the context of your talk. The Pharisees were so willing to keep to the OT that they introduced many more restrictive rules to helm the Law of Moses. It is a wrong notion even among orthodox muslims that the Jews never kept laws like stoning adulterers. Stoning adulterers was practiced long before Jesus by both Jews and Pagan. Even the NT relates a story where Jesus saved a harlot from getting stoned by the Jews.

Christians look at Jesus teaching on the subject; instead of obeying the law of Moses that encourages stoning of adultery, He set a new precedence - don't do it again, you are forgiven.

I can see that, but sometimes punishment aren't there to burden us, they exist to serve as deterent and establish Justice. Unlike backbiting, adultery is a sin/crime that entails directly hurting a third party. In that case, don't you think it is more just to have an earthly punishment for it than not?

Matthew 15:17-20
Mark 7:15-19

I think you interpreted these verses off context. The pharisees were overly concerned with eating with unwashed or dirty hands. Jesus meant that physical dirt doesn't pollute us but spiritual or moral dirt does. I don't think this has anything to do with clean or unclean food. Give it a thought.

Sorry for the diversion, but how much longer are you going to wait for a response?

arsenalwenger: No sane person will accept a religios teaching that sanctions the killing of infidels as a religious duty. No logical person will sanction a religion that sees nothing wrong for a 54 year old man to sleep with a 9 year old girl. No sane african can accept a religion that approve marryin a first cousin, it is incest to African culture and good in islamic and arab culture.
I wont accept a religion that teach pupils, from their childhood, to view xtains and Jews as eternal enemies. I wont accept a religion that is widely known to have conqured lands, via war, before establishing mini-caliphates, especially in africa and asia.

Well, I am going to help you with your condition even if many of your assertions are either myopic or outrightly false.

[quote author=arsenalwenger][/quote]
i thought you are intelligent until you flopped. Thats why i see no reason to argue with you.

maclatunji:

Well, I am going to help you with your condition even if many of your assertions are either myopic or outrightly false.

Marrying first cousin is an ince,st in our african society.

It is a criminal offense for a christian or a Jew to own or carry a bible in saudi arabia. Bible is an illegal material in saudi.

African culture is traditionally against child marriage while the age difference bw the prophet and aisha is 45 years (according to islamic sources),

Any saudi citizen that leaves islam for christianity, or any other religion, will face a death penalty. This only happen in a cult where there is no other option once you join.

Islam teaches cultural supremacy and are always at war will other cultures or religions where both of them mix or meet. We never heard christians fighting hindus in India, we never heard christians fighting bhudist in china, we never heard christians bombing mosques in Nigeria. You understand what im saying here.

No other religion in the entire world is advertising its religion to be a religion of peace, except Islam. This is an image laundary statement: I AM WHITE FORGET ABOUT MY BLACK SKIN.

bakandow11:
I think i can come in now, my brothers it goes a long way when you sit down and ask yourself some questions which will lead to a good research. WHY MUSLIMS LIKE THIS? WHAT DOES QURAN TEACHES, after being born as a muslim i had to at a certain time sit down and ask myself WHAT IF MY DAD WAS WRONG ABOUT RELIGION. i believe each and everyone of us should do thesame, then you will learn and find out the truth about islam (peace) ....then why war.
please am on the research WHY XTAINS EAT PORK despite wat leviticus 11:7-9 says. so to round up pls sit down do some research abt the concept of islam then you will foundout if all dis boko haram and iss stuff is political or not.

I don't get you.

arsenalwenger: [s]Marrying first cousin is an ince,st in our african society.

It is a criminal offense for a christian or a Jew to own or carry a bible in saudi arabia. Bible is an illegal material in saudi.

African culture is traditionally against child marriage while the age difference bw the prophet and aisha is 45 years (according to islamic sources),

Any saudi citizen that leaves islam for christianity, or any other religion, will face a death penalty. This only happen in a cult where there is no other option once you join.

Islam teaches cultural supremacy and are always at war will other cultures or religions where both of them mix or meet. We never heard christians fighting hindus in India, we never heard christians fighting bhudist in china, we never heard christians bombing mosques in Nigeria. You understand what im saying here.

No other religion in the entire world is advertising its religion to be a religion of peace, except Islam. This is an image laundary statement: I AM WHITE FORGET ABOUT MY BLACK SKIN.[/s]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwr5Y88VodQ&list=WL&index=78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM9-NutpdJc&list=WL&index=79

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gm1opxIBKg&list=WL&index=80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZfshlqrKQ&index=81&list=WL

Empiree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwr5Y88VodQ&list=WL&index=78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM9-NutpdJc&list=WL&index=79

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gm1opxIBKg&list=WL&index=80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZfshlqrKQ&index=81&list=WL

I believe you are learned in your religion. You can make your point without a youtube video.

arsenalwenger: I believe you are learned in your religion. You can make your point without a youtube video.

watch it or leave it

Please see the attached. To me, it explains so much about the identity of the infamous ISIL. They need to as well convert to Islam before asking others to. Most, if not all, of their activities contravene Islamic teachings.

Empiree: watch it or leave it

Truth is always hard for muslims to handle, especially when told about the life of the prophet. From the wars he fought against his perceived infidels, his slave trading and taking, his mass killing of meccan Jews, his many wives, se.x slaves and concubines, his hatred for the xtains and Jews (quran 5:51), etc.

Truth is always hard for muslims to handle.

arsenalwenger: [s]Truth is always hard for muslims to handle, especially when told about the life of the prophet. From the wars he fought against his perceived infidels, his slave trading and taking, his mass killing of meccan Jews, his many wives, se.x slaves and concubines, his hatred for the xtains and Jews [/s](quran 5:51), etc.

[s]Truth is always hard for muslims to handle.[/s]

I think the best thing is to ignore ignoramuses

cloudstar: bakandow11



I agree with you. I think everyone of us should do an objective research about their beliefs. I used to be a Muslim but I am no more for several reasons



If you understand the Christian teachings of Jesus then you will understand how the laws of the old testament fits into Christian lives. The laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy were the laws of Moses and the Jews couldn't live up to it. For example, the laws of Moses taught that if you commit adultery, you should be stoned to death. The law of God - 10 commandments doesn't issue a punishment but tells us not to commit adultery.

Christians look at Jesus teaching on the subject; instead of obeying the law of Moses that encourages stoning of adultery, He set a new precedence - don't do it again, you are forgiven. Christians take the same approach to the issue of pork - Jews were under the law of Moses and restricted with certain food laws, as a Christian; you can decide to eat pork or not; it's up to you. However, the teachings are clear on the subject:

[b]Matthew 15:17-20
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." KJV

Mark 7:15-19
"There is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. [" If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.) NASB[/b]

Personally I don't eat pork for health reasons but if it was the only food in the world and I had no other choice, I would eat it. However, eating it isn't sin

its not a sin but quran says if u ar forced or d only tin left u ar forgiven for eating it