Goshen360:

When you get there, hopefully if you do, it will be clear to you and you will understand but I can help you out. Ask yourself, the sins YOU WILL COMMIT TOMORROW. ...are they past or present sins or are they future sins AND WILL THOSE SIN BE FORVIGEN TOMORROW OR NOT?

5solas:
I believe we should ask for forgiveness when we sin for fellowship with the Lord to be restored, not for us to be re-saved.
If our future sins were not covered by Christ's death, how do we get present forgiveness. Are you suggesting He dies perpetually?

5solas: @Ukutsgp
It seems you deliberately missed the point in your last two responses. It is a pity!

Titus 3

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

5solas:
From the verses above we can see salvation cannot come by the ''deeds of the law'' (doing what the law requires/keeping the law), this is because we cannot keep the law, also supposing we can, if we fail in one, we are guilty of all! (James 2:10) . The law reveals our sin, so rather than justify/save, it condemns!
There is a way to be righteous that does not come from keeping the law. This is the way of faith. There is a righteousness that comes from faith. God will reckon anyone who believes in Jesus righteous because Jesus fulfilled the just requirements of the law (Romans 8:3,4). That salvation is by faith keeps us from being able to boast because even this faith is given by God (Eph.2:8,9;Phil: 1:29,1Cor.1:30).
So Paul concludes that salvation is entirely of grace and then says that the fact that works are excluded in salvation does not mean that he is saying the law should no longer be kept. He says we are better able to keep the law when we have faith.
Works come after our salvation and are not to be done with the intent of obtaining salvation.

brainpulse: The OP didn't say Salvation is by Law.

Salvation is by God's grace through Christ Jesus and it still depends on an individual to whole heartedly receive and abide in such grace by following the Words of God "you Word have I hidden in my heart so that I will not sin against you." That is the reason a christian must study and meditate on the Word of God to have a vivid and fore knowledge of the devices of the enemy. Salvation for a christian does not just stop at the stage of professing, he has to understand closely the ordinances of God for a healthy and close relationship with God.

We all know the devil sets various traps as temptations for our relationship with God to go sour by disobeying these ordinances and when such relationship with God is broken, the faithful christian with soberliness has to go to God for forgiviness which the Lord that sees all heart shows His love. When a believer falls into temptation of various kinds, the spirit of God ministers to him and he has a choice to either obey or grieve the Spirit of God. The believer still has that choice to look back and break his relationship and gift of salvation. With the same mouth, heart and action that salvation is received, it can be broken. "Any man that places is hands on the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God" Luke 9:62

brainpulse: I will like us to be more practical knowing fully well at the back of my mind that it will be difficult to have a discussion with someone that does not have a genuine salvation experience. 1. What is the reason for the salvation of a man's soul?

2. What is the role of man in salvation.

3. Does man have a choice to receive and reject the salvation of his soul?

4. What can be the interest of the devil against man receiving and maintaining his salvation?

brainpulse: We all know the devil sets various traps as temptations for our relationship with God to go sour by disobeying these ordinances and when such relationship with God is broken, the faithful christian with soberliness has to go to God for forgiviness which the Lord that sees all heart shows His love. When a believer falls into temptation of various kinds, the spirit of God ministers to him and he has a choice to either obey or grieve the Spirit of God. The believer still has that choice to look back and break his relationship and gift of salvation. With the same mouth, heart and action that salvation is received, it can be broken. "Any man that places is hands on the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God" Luke 9:62

Matthew 11
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

paxonel:
because he does not believe in JESUS, he believes in his works. he does not have faith, it is either his faith or his works he should choose one
Romans 11:6 And if by grace (faith ), then it is no more of works...
since he has choosed works over faith then.he is not different from a Muslim or anybody outside christianity
he believes by mouth, but by action. (because he is more of works ) he has denied the faith
remember, action speaks louder than voice
that means, he is condemned already into hell fire John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already...

atbu1983: dis your post is a backing for once saved, forever save. if dat is
true, once I am born again, I don't need to go to church . Spend
my money on tithe and offering. Stress myself working in d church
4 free. Since my aim of being a christian is to b save. And my
works is not needed. You can't say I rob God 4 not paying tithe as
written in Malachi 3. Since my sins have be paid for I am above
sin. so I can't rob God. Even if I sleep with my neighbours wife
and died while having
d sex of heart attack, I will still make heaven because d sin has
been paid 4 before I committed it since I am born again and
saved already. Since I am already born again as stated in 2 corinthians 5. 17, my salvation is bullet proof and air tight. All I need do is to flex enjoy my life till I die. doing whatever pleases me whether bad or good in d eyes of men. But in d eyes of God I am save. I can join cult. use charm. kill who I don't like etc. it is only sin 4 those under d law. now that I under grace and have b save by d blood of Jesus, notin I do can be called sin. since I am now slave to righteousness. Whatever I do is righteous. not because d act was good but because me a righteousness of God did it.

paxonel:
Yes ,Christ has done it all, he says it is finish! you don't need to do anything again. You should be happy about this. Jesus is also not advising us to go and commit sin. (whatever sin, big or small, they are the same before God. James 2:10 says For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.) because he doesn't want us to suffer the consequence, when the consequence of sin comes the salvation we have already will not save us.from it . Faith without works is dead
Now that you know you are already saved, use your conscience to avoid sin as much as you can.
Different people have different ability to avoid sin depending on their education level, that is why it is advisable to go to school, ignorance is not an excuse.
its like,your conscience (love for your fellow man ) is what God want to test in you, if you have it. Not to condemn you.
Talking about going to church to work. The question you need to ask yourself is, are you paid for the work? You should have a very good reason why you are working, you can't continue to work like that for free, You only devalue yourself.
If you are working because you believe that your pastor is teaching the truth, better. That means you are working for him voluntarily.
Just know that if you decides today not to work again he cannot slap you
Just know that God is not interested in all that work, what God is interested is, ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
ofcourse you know that working in church cannot give you salvation.
Your salvation was given to you since 2000 years ago

paxonel:
Yes ,Christ has done it all, he says it is finish! you don't need to do anything again. You should be happy about this. Jesus is also not advising us to go and commit sin. (whatever sin, big or small, they are the same before God. James 2:10 says For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.) because he doesn't want us to suffer the consequence, when the consequence of sin comes the salvation we have already will not save us.from it . Faith without works is dead
Now that you know you are already saved, use your conscience to avoid sin as much as you can.
Different people have different ability to avoid sin depending on their education level, that is why it is advisable to go to school, ignorance is not an excuse.
its like,your conscience (love for your fellow man ) is what God want to test in you, if you have it. Not to condemn you.
Talking about going to church to work. The question you need to ask yourself is, are you paid for the work? You should have a very good reason why you are working, you can't continue to work like that for free, You only devalue yourself.
If you are working because you believe that your pastor is teaching the truth, better. That means you are working for him voluntarily.
Just know that if you decides today not to work again he cannot slap you
Just know that God is not interested in all that work, what God is interested is, ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
ofcourse you know that working in church cannot give you salvation.
Your salvation was given to you since 2000 years ago

atbu1983:

Every human being will love it if your position of once save forever save is true .

But d fact is that it is not true. it is false Gospel satan had devised to take many to hell. By using charismatic sweet talking preachers to spread it, many will fall for it.

The bible told us that in d last days false teachers will be plenty. people will become lovers of themselves . Many will have itching ears always wanting to hear what is sweet.

The gospel of once save always save is delusional.


It is true as a true believer of Christ God doesn't condemn us to hell immediately when we do wrong or sin. But need to see in us d desire to be free physically from those sin.

Those of us who sin deliberately because grace of God is available will surely lose our salvation if we don't repent.

paxonel:
quote one Scripture out that support this position and explain the scripture let's see.
you know the Bible can not contradict itself?
please don't quote multiple Scriptures, the reason is to reduce to much writing.
just give me only one and explain that one

paxonel:
quote one Scripture out that support this position and explain the scripture let's see.
you know the Bible can not contradict itself?
please don't quote multiple Scriptures, the reason is to reduce to much writing.
just give me only one and explain that one

paxonel:
quote one Scripture out that support this position and explain the scripture let's see.
you know the Bible can not contradict itself?
please don't quote multiple Scriptures, the reason is to reduce to much writing.
just give me only one and explain that one

atbu1983: dis your post is a backing for once saved, forever save.

if dat is
true, once I am born again, I don't need to go to church . Spend
my money on tithe and offering. Stress myself working in d church
4 free. Since my aim of being a christian is to b save. And my
works is not needed. You can't say I rob God 4 not paying tithe as
written in Malachi 3. Since my sins have be paid for I am above
sin. so I can't rob God. Even if I sleep with my neighbours wife
and died while having
d sex of heart attack, I will still make heaven because d sin has
been paid 4 before I committed it since I am born again and
saved already.

Since I am already born again as stated in 2 corinthians 5. 17, my salvation is bullet proof and air tight. All I need do is to flex enjoy my life till I die. doing whatever pleases me whether bad or good in d eyes of men. But in d eyes of God I am save. I can join cult. use charm. kill who I don't like etc. it is only sin 4 those under d law. now that I under grace and have b save by d blood of Jesus, notin I do can be called sin. since I am now slave to righteousness. Whatever I do is righteous. not because d act was good but because me a righteousness of God did it.

atbu1983: If d gospel of once save forever saved is true, it means I can
do what I like once I am born again. I can choose to be a killer, I
can choose to save others. I can choose to hate or choose to
love. I can choose to sleep with ur wife and daughters or I can
choose not to. But in either case my heaven is sure and sealed. I
can choose to bomb every body in church on sunday and commit
suicide. No matter what I do, my heaven is sure since I am
already born again b4 I did it.

Whether u call it Christianity,religion, Christ followers, those from zion, Abraham abducted children, relationship or whatever it makes no difference. All that is use of English. .

Since I am forever loved, whether I love back or not is my choice.
what matters is dat my salvation is irreversible no matter what I
do. no matter d atrocity I commit, my heaven is sure because I
was once saved.

As christians, we should be careful how we spread d heresy of
once save always save. Dis interpretation of the gospel of christ is
from satan. satan knowing how much we love dis world, have used
popular charismatic preacher to spread dis false doctrine. it is a
false doctrine gotten from twisting apostle paul messages. Taking
d liberty preached by apostle Paul to a limit he never intended.
because of our greed we will destroy christianity in d long run.
This message will make christianity vain and worthless in d long
wrong. WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WITH OUR MADNESS. WE
SHOULD STOP TAKING GRACE OF GOD FOR GRANTED!!!!!!

atbu1983:

Every human being will love it if your position of once save forever save is true .

But d fact is that it is not true. it is false Gospel satan had devised to take many to hell. By using charismatic sweet talking preachers to spread it, many will fall for it.

The bible told us that in d last days false teachers will be plenty. people will become lovers of themselves . Many will have itching ears always wanting to hear what is sweet.

The gospel of once save always save is delusional.


It is true as a true believer of Christ God doesn't condemn us to hell immediately when we do wrong or sin. But need to see in us d desire to be free physically from those sin.

Those of us who sin deliberately because grace of God is available will surely lose our salvation if we don't repent.

Ukutsgp: and u know d dat the consequence of sin is eternal death(separation from God).

we must work for God. remember, Jesus said 'occupy till i come'. will he find u in ur duty post when he comes?

i must do the work of him that sent me while it is day, the night is coming when no man can work.

he has sent us to preach d gospel, heal d sick, bind d broken hearted, raise d dead, bring deliverance to d possessed, set free those that are in prisons, help d orphans and widows like Dorcas, etc.

atbu1983: 1corinthians 9. 24 to 27

24 Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only
one person gets the prize? So run to win! 25 All athletes are
disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will
fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. 26 So I run with
purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. 27 I
discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it
should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself
might be disqualified.



From dat passage, it means we can lose d prize of eternal life (salvation) if we don't try our best to conquer our flesh. All we need to ask is d grace of God to help our resolve. It is our decision to consciously displine our body, d grace of God only assist us to achieve.

Note: I know you can come up with satanic twisting of d message to create a meaning never intended by Apostle Paul when he was writing to Corinthians.


2Timithy 4vs 3 is as stated below
For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound
teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will
accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an
insatiable curiosity to hear new things.

atbu1983: 1corinthians 9. 24 to 27

24 Don’t you realize that in a race everyone runs, but only
one person gets the prize? So run to win! 25 All athletes are
disciplined in their training. They do it to win a prize that will
fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. 26 So I run with
purpose in every step. I am not just shadowboxing. 27 I
discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it
should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself
might be disqualified.


From dat passage, it means we can lose d prize of eternal life (salvation) if we don't try our best to conquer our flesh. All we need to ask is d grace of God to help our resolve. It is our decision to consciously displine our body, d grace of God only assist us to achieve.

Note: I know you can come up with satanic twisting of d message to create a meaning never intended by Apostle Paul when he was writing to Corinthians.


2Timithy 4vs 3 is as stated below
For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound
teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will
accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an
insatiable curiosity to hear new things.

paxonel:

this Scripture does not say Christians who sin deliberately will loose salvation just like you said.
thank God you even said we need the grace of God, that we need to discipline our body.
if we are to discipline our body it shows that we are not 100% perfect, we can only try.
incase you don't know ,for us to be justified into eternal life we must be 100% perfect
God says be ye holy, for i am holy
so God is 100% holy
and the only grace of God that has made us 100% holy as God wanted is the blood of Jesus, not our ourselves or works
show me a Scripture that says if a Christian deliberately commit sin he will loose his salvation which contradicts the saying that we are saved by grace, not by works ..
OK, take all your time, even one or two months to search your Bible, i will be here waiting

atbu1983:
1 Corinthians 5 . 1-13 .New English Translation (NET Bible) as stated below

It is actually reported that sexual immorality exists among
you, the kind of immorality that is not permitted even among
the Gentiles, so that someone is cohabiting with his father’s
wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you have been deeply
sorrowful instead and removed the one who did this from
among you? For even though I am absent physically, I am
present in spirit. And I have already judged the one who did
this, just as though I were present. When you gather
together in the name of our Lord Jesus, and I am with you in
spirit, along with the power of our Lord Jesus, hand this
man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that
his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little
yeast affects the whole batch of dough? Clean out the old
yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough—you are, in
fact, without yeast. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been
sacrificed. So then, let us celebrate the festival, not with
the old yeast, the yeast of vice and evil, but with the bread
without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually
immoral people. In no way did I mean the immoral people
of this world, or the greedy and swindlers and idolaters,
since you would then have to go out of the world. But
now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who
calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy,
or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a
swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. For what
do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to
judge those inside? But God will judge those outside.
Remove the evil person from among you.


Short Explanation: In this passage , paul is strictly referring to those who have accepted christ but are still proud of themselves living immoral life. To them he said he has passed Judgement on them already. Paul said pass d person to satan for destruction of his flesh so dat his spirit may be saved of d lord. This means that if d persons love of d flesh is not consciously destroyed the persons spirit will not be save. Note that this person was proud of his immoral life. Which means he was doing it deliberately and as such his spirit will not be save......Lost of Salvation.

Paul even said such persons should b expelled from d gathering of christians. He went further to say we are to Judge fellow christians conduct. The Judgement we judge a fellow christian is to bring to his notice his wrongs so dat he depart from it for his spirit that was save by Blood of jesus to remain save. For d bible said Faith without work is dead

Note: I know those with satanic message can still twist dis passage with logical reasons which Apostle paul never intended when he wrote to d corinthians. We should understand that paul writing is a letter to a gathering of christian in corinthians. which means it is suppose to be easy to understand. He didn't write them to be scrutinising it with plenty logic to justify thier love for things of d flesh.


more bible passages

Matthew 7. 21 to 23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Hebrew 6. 4 to 6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been
enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in
the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God
and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to
restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once
again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to
contempt.


2peter 2. 20 to 22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through
the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse
for them than the first. For it would have been better for them
never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it
to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What
the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to
its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow
in the mire.”




All dis passage point to one thing. we can lose our salvation if we don't live righteous life by subjecting our body to control. Yes we need d grace of God to achieve it. but we must consciously seek it for d grace of God to help us achieve it.

Note. I deliberately didn't quote any old testament b4 u end up saying old testament is for d law. That is where I hv problem with some of u who uses old testament to justify tithing but when it come to other issues u say it is of d law and no longer valid.

paxonel:

thank God you know, old testament is out of it. That is why i say show me where the bible says if a CHRISTIAN sin deliberately he has lost his salvation. because Christianity started in the new testament (not even Matthew, mark, Luke and John, but from the book of Act down to revelation, and unto this day )
You can even excommunicate a Christian who commited a gracious sin from the church and no church member will associate with him,
It will help to prevent a situation where he will corrupt the rest of the church members with his evil mindset. I think that was what paul was trying to emphasize there.because, evil communication corrupt good manners.
But i tell you, God has not rejected any Christian who is excommunicated like that , he has not lost his salvation so long he has not defected from christianity to islam.
Because Christianity is the way,the truth and the (eternal life )
You say,Paul said, pass d person to satan
for destruction of his flesh so dat his spirit
MAY BE SAVED of d lord.
then in your explanation,you say,This means that if d persons love of d flesh is not consciously
destroyed the persons spirit will NOT BE SAVED.
now i want to ask, is the phrase MAY BE SAVED the same thing as the phrase NOT BE SAVED?
with this, between me and you who is now twisting scriptures?
show me a place in the Bible that put any such verdict as a Christian will loose his salvation if he commit sin deliberately.
i am still waiting

atbu1983:

Look at what paul wrote again in corinthians

" hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit May be saved in the day of the Lord."

This is simple english that is very clear to anyone who love truth.
The Statement clearly shows the destruction of the flesh for this particular person is an attempt to see if his spirit can still be save. He already lost it. This is a corrective measure to salvage the situation.

Understand he said: " so dat his spirit MAY be save."

"May" in this sentence is a conditional verb with a probability greater than 50%. It doesn't represent certainty.
If you read the passage with open mind, without any prejudice of already bias believe the passage will be crystal clear and simple.

Because you want to hear what you want and see what you want to see, the passage will not be clear to you. you will go on twisting and twisting.

Always know this, God create man For himself. Man did not create God for themselves. God does not own us a duty. We are the one who owns God worship and reverence and praises.

The relationship we have with God through Christ our lord, is not about God pleasing us but about us pleasing God.

This is my last post on this subject. I rest my case.

paxonel:

thank God you know, old testament is out of it. That is why i say show me where the bible says if a CHRISTIAN sin deliberately he has lost his salvation. because Christianity started in the new testament (not even Matthew, mark, Luke and John, but from the book of Act down to revelation, and unto this day )
You can even excommunicate a Christian who commited a gracious sin from the church and no church member will associate with him,
It will help to prevent a situation where he will corrupt the rest of the church members with his evil mindset. I think that was what paul was trying to emphasize there.because, evil communication corrupt good manners.
But i tell you, God has not rejected any Christian who is excommunicated like that , he has not lost his salvation so long he has not defected from christianity to islam.
Because Christianity is the way,the truth and the (eternal life )
You say,Paul said, pass d person to satan
for destruction of his flesh so dat his spirit
MAY BE SAVED of d lord.
then in your explanation,you say,This means that if d persons love of d flesh is not consciously
destroyed the persons spirit will NOT BE SAVED.
now i want to ask, is the phrase MAY BE SAVED the same thing as the phrase NOT BE SAVED?
with this, between me and you who is now twisting scriptures?
show me a place in the Bible that put any such verdict as a Christian will loose his salvation if he commit sin deliberately.
i am still waiting