pazienza:


My aunt just confirmed to me that the Nzam people she knew were purely Igbo with no iota of igalla.

I did small digging and found out that the Igalla people in Nzam were invaders, they didn't meet the land empty and hand to drive the Igbo groups in the land away, but many of the Igbo groups recovered back some of their original land. So Nzam is not an Igalla town,but an original Igbo settlement, that Igbos now have to share with their Igalla invaders from Idah.
The current Igwe of Nzam, happen to be from the Igbo part of Nzam.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nzam

Deltagiant:

That is what i am trying to hammer into him. It is a fruitless excercise. I purposely don't want to humiliate anyone and that is why i've been courteously telling him to go meet Igwe james okolo to resolve his misgivings.

Revisionists par excellence.
OK so before you guys just want to annihilate their language. But with with this "sacred truth" your "fathom" aunt told you; you now have a justification for commit genocide on them?
Please wipe the blood from your mouth.

pazienza:


Thank you. The Odekpe claim is quite funny, considering that my maternal family have in laws in Odekpe and as a matter of fact, they ran to Odekpe when the civil war engulfed their part of Idemili. Odekpe is an Igbo town with no iota of Igalla. Infact, i would have to research on some of the other towns there that he is claiming as Igalla towns, if he could lie about Odekpe,nothing is beyond him.

i know odekpe in ogbaru l.g.a is not that one. We have odekpe in anambra west.

JonBee1:




Revisionists per excellence.
OK so you are just annihilating their language. But with with this "sacred truth" your "fathom" aunt told you; you now have a justification for commit genocide on them?
Please wipe the blood from your mouth.

Well, if that is what you want then i'll tell u that there is no revisionism about it. Nzam is Igbo and has always been Igbo right from human recollection before Nigeria. From Eastern Nigeria to Biafra and back to Nigeria and it is not going to change. this is basic. It's admnistration will forever remain in the east and by IGBOS. So what do u do now?

JonBee1:




Revisionists per excellence.
OK so you are just annihilating their language. But with with this "sacred truth" your "fathom" aunt told you; you now have a justification for commit genocide on them?
Please wipe the blood from your mouth.

My aunt simply confirmed my suspicion that there are native igbos and native Igallas in Nzam.

I did a little digging of my own,to find out who the original settlers were,and who were the invaders.

The northern Igboland seem to had been over ran and conquered by Igallas in the pre colonial era, the situation seem to be akin to that of the Hausas and Fulanis, with the minority Igallas just like fulanis, having to assimiliate with the Igbos to retain power. Until the colonial era and the emergence of the Igbo as a major political player in Nigerian politics changed the dynamics of power in those areas.

Igbos need to learn to accommodate other people in their community. Go to the north, the s
Igbos are number one as far as business is concerned, also south west igbos are second to none but go to east you hardly find any other ethnic group in sizeable number being accommodated there. Go to south south u will see Hausas and Yorubas in large numbers leaving peaceful there. So the earlier the Igbos try to accommodate other ethnic groups in their communities the better for them. I don't need any statistics to show the level of igbos businesses in Lagos, Abuja, sokoto, kano etc. Tell any town in Igbo land where other people do business in sizeable number.

badaru1:
Igbos need to learn to accommodate other people in their community. Go to the north, the s
Igbos are number one as far as business is concerned, also south west igbos are second to none but go to east you hardly find any other ethnic group in sizeable number being accommodated there. Go to south south u will see Hausas and Yorubas in large numbers leaving peaceful there. So the earlier the Igbos try to accommodate other ethnic groups in their communities the better for them. I don't need any statistics to show the level of igbos businesses in Lagos, Abuja, sokoto, kano etc. Tell any town in Igbo land where other people do business in sizeable number.

Mister ignoramus (no insult intended), yorubas,hausa & southsouth are in larger numbers in southeast.....smh

pazienza:


Odekpe is not and does not speak Igalla. No Odekpe person would tell you that he is Igalla. Odekpe speaks Ogbaru type of Igbo.

I think there are 2 Odekpes in Anambra state, the Igbo one and Igala one in Anambra West.

Not that I have not seen an Igboman that changed his surname eg Njoku Emeka - Ani Emeka or Njoku Emeka - Fred Emeka.

I am talking about an Igboman changing his surname to a non-Igbo name except English.
Eg Njoku Emeka - Jemigbola Emeka.

I have not seen the later before.

eleko1:
I agree with U but that U haven't seen one doesn't mean some peeps dnt changed their SURNAME(falsify/name is associated with demon)

pazienza:


My aunt simply confirmed my suspicion that there are native igbos and native Igallas in Nzam.

I did a little digging of my own,to find out who the original settlers were,and who were the invaders.

The northern Igboland seem to had been over ran and conquered by Igallas in the pre colonial era, the situation seem to be akin to that of the Hausas and Fulanis, with the minority Igallas just like fulanis, having to assimiliate with the Igbos to retain power. Until the colonial era and the emergence of the Igbo as a major political player in Nigerian politics changed the dynamics of power in those areas.

You and your Aunt are irrelevant to the issue of discuss. Whether Igalas encroached by war or by begging is also irrelevant. The real fact is that as at Oct 1960 they were there, on Oct. 9, 2014 they are still there, and have full rights of occupancy. In case you do not know, indigenes hip has no special position in the constitution if Nigeria, nor that of Biafra just for saying.

Further Anambra state does not equate to Igbo, it is an economic and administrative convenience. To tell you the truth, if not that Nigeria puts everything upside down, most of you writing here have no citizenship claims in Anambra since majority live outside the state. You only have a cultural affiliation with Anambra which is just for sentiments. States are not, and were never created for blood homogeneity. Anybody looking for blood homogeneity in the 21st century is extremely stupid! "That's one of the conclusions of Germans about African definition of citizenship".

Last but not the least, any single language or even a variant dialect take hundreds of years to evolve. Every language is like a unique animal specie. It is a human heritage that belongs not just to the speakers, but to our collective wealth as humanity. Hence it is our collective responsibility to ensure that all such language samples are preserved. France and Germany are areas where minorities have been assimilated, yet their languages and cultures are carefully preserved and documented for the future. Why can't we ever think like progressive people instead of always showing the tendency of cavemen.

As far as I know, Anambra state being only Igbo is not an achievement of any sort and holds no special benefit

badaru1:
Igbos need to learn to accommodate other people in their community. Go to the north, the s
Igbos are number one as far as business is concerned, also south west igbos are second to none but go to east you hardly find any other ethnic group in sizeable number being accommodated there. Go to south south u will see Hausas and Yorubas in large numbers leaving peaceful there. So the earlier the Igbos try to accommodate other ethnic groups in their communities the better for them. I don't need any statistics to show the level of igbos businesses in Lagos, Abuja, sokoto, kano etc. Tell any town in Igbo land where other people do business in sizeable number.

I find your post rather funny and childish to say the least,you're mentioning all the places Igbos as a tribe are residing and doing ok..I have never had of non Igbos in Igbo land being killed nor their properties destroyed nor any case of anybody stopping you from establishing anything in the East,if you want to establish anything you're welcome..the fact of the matter is,other tribes presences in businesses in Igbo land is negligible for the simple reason that they cannot compete with Igbos on a level ground business wise..if Igbos are dominating you in your backyard how do you propose to fare in Igbo land?

Kengali. Your Eurocentric view of the issue at hand is totally irrelevant and parallel to the discussion at hand, neither is any one interested in what you and your german friends think.

This is Africa, and we have our own ways of doing things. No one is denying the Igallas their rights, we are only reminding them of their history and how they came to be in the area. A once aggressor, is now playing a victim, it's only right we put things in proper perspective, by looking at the past, that brought them/us to the present.
Thanks.

KenGali:


You and your Aunt are irrelevant to the issue of discuss. Whether Igalas encroached by war or by begging is also irrelevant. The real fact is that as at Oct 1960 they were there, on Oct. 9, 2014 they are still they, and have full rights of occupancy. In case you do not know, indigenes hip has no special position in the constitution if Nigeria, nor that of Biafra just for saying.

Further Anambra state does not equate to Igbo, it is an economic and administrative convenience. To tell you the truth, if not that Nigeria puts everything upside down, most of you writing here have no citizenship claims in Anambra since majority live outside the state. You only have a cultural affiliation with Anambra which is just for sentiments. States are not, and were never created for blood homogeneity. Anybody looking for blood homogeneity in the 21st century is extremely stupid! "That's one of the conclusions of Germans about African definition of citizenship".

Last but not the least, any single language or even a variant dialect take hundreds of years to evolve. Every language is like a unique animal specie. It is a human heritage that belongs not just to the speakers, but to our collective wealth as humanity. Hence it is our collective responsibility to ensure that all such language samples are preserved. France and Germany are areas where minorities have been assimilated, yet their languages and cultures are carefully preserved and documented for the future. Why can't we ever think like progressive people instead of always showing the tendency of cavemen.

As far as I know, Anambra state being only Igbo is not an achievement of any sort and holds no special benefit

Misdirected response, cos the guy you're quoting did not make any remark to the contrary. Read and get in tune with the rythm of the conversation, please.

pazienza:
Kengali. Your Eurocentric view of the issue at hand is totally irrelevant and parallel to the discussion at hand, neither is any one interested in what you and your german friends think.

This is Africa, and we have our own ways of doing things. No one is denying the Igallas their rights, we are only reminding them of their history and how they came to be in the area. A once aggressor, is now playing a victim, it's only right we put things in proper perspective, by looking at the past, that brought them/us to the present.
Thanks.

Just look where your so called African way of doing things leaves you at the bottom of the world's Tottem pole.
May be you need reminding that Nigeria was created in the 1960s , and any history before that is totally irrelevant to the rights capture and defined by the new state. Further making your aunts version of history totally of no use.
And may I remind you that it is not just Europe, there is no single successful world power In the world today that goes around looking for ethnic homogeneity.

pazienza:


My aunt just confirmed to me that the Nzam people she knew were purely Igbo with no iota of igalla.

I did small digging and found out that the Igalla people in Nzam were invaders, they didn't meet the land empty and had to drive the Igbo groups in the land away, but many of the Igbo groups recovered back some of their original land. So Nzam is not an Igalla town,but an original Igbo settlement, that Igbos now have to share with their Igalla invaders from Idah.
The current Igwe of Nzam, happen to be from the Igbo part of Nzam.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nzam

I thought so too...imagine invaders demanding same rights as natives even after they've been defeated and yet a riffraff like jonbee won't let us rest??

If that's the case,I give Up but I knw some young Igbo man do change their Father's name from Ugochukwu Okeke to Adegbola Uche.If u doubt me,check FB U'll see such.quote author=adeitoro post=27081660]Not that I have not seen an Igboman that changed his surname eg Njoku Emeka - Ani Emeka or Njoku Emeka - Fred Emeka.

I am talking about an Igboman changing his surname to a non-Igbo name except English.
Eg Njoku Emeka - Jemigbola Emeka.

I have not seen the later before.

[/quote]

cheruv:

I thought so too...imagine invaders demanding same rights as natives even after they've been defeated and yet a riffraff like jonbee won't let us rest??

Deltagiant:

Misdirected response, cos the guy you're quoting did not make any remark to the contrary. Read and get in tune with the rythm of the conversation, please.

The first quote is the exact point your friend Piazienze is trying to make subtly.
However, anybody occupying the area under the recognition of Nigerian State is the true Occupier as far as our current status demands. So that's a defeated argument.

OP, I identify with you, infact we are from same LG even though am 100% Igbo. But you should also agree that the state has recognised your area by citing Anambra West LG HQ in your town when it was created in 1996 even though it is smaller than most other Anam towns. This is highly unlike the domineering posture of the Nigerian state. You will agree the state has embraced you as one of us. Though I wish you success in your pursuit but I think this energy should be directed towards seeking more of infrastructural development in your town especially the federal road connecting you to Otuocha through Anam which has been under construction since when I was born.

Deltagiant:


That is what i am trying to hammer into him. It is a fruitless excercise. I purposely don't want to humiliate anyone and that is why i've been courteously telling him to go meet Igwe james okolo to resolve his misgivings.

pls am interested in the wars between igala and the omambala and nsuka Igbos.I heard the atta continuously harassed those Igbos till he was finally defeated for good at lake omeluigala.
is there any way I can get that history?

KenGali:


Just look where your so called African way of doing things leaves you at the bottom of the world's Tottem pole.
May be you need reminding that Nigeria was created in the 1960s , and any history before that is totally irrelevant to the rights capture and defined by the new state. Further making your aunts version of history totally of no use.
And may I remind you that it is not just Europe, there is no single successful world power In the world today that goes around looking for ethnic homogeneity.

And where exactly in my post was i suggesting that Anambra or Igboland must be ethnically homogenous?

What i am against is people trying to distort history. Nzam was originally an Igbo only settlement, and despite Igalla later invasion of the area, Igbos still have a heavy presence in Nzam,so much that one of them is the current Igwe of Nzam.
To paint Nzam as an Igalla town, like the Op did, is an insult to Ndiigbo, and mustn't be let to slide.

pazienza:


And where exactly in my post was i suggesting that Anambra or Igboland must be ethnically homogenous?

What i am against is people trying to distort history. Nzam was originally an Igbo only settlement, and despite Igalla later invasion of the area, Igbos still have a heavy presence in Nzam,so much that one of them is the current Igwe of Nzam.
To paint Nzam as an Igalla town, like the Op did, is an insult to Ndiigbo, and mustn't be let to slide.

Lol,
And do you not think that to paint it as an Igbo town is quite erroneous too.

Let me point something's out to you, war, occupation, military dominance were legitimate ways of forming communities in the past. Further, do you realize that at the time frame of your historical reference there were no political conscious creations called Igbo, nor Igala, not even Yoruba nor Hausa. These ethnic consciousness are all 20 th century creations, so am still wondering how one goes to label a town Igbo or Igala at a time when people never knew theses definitions.

PROUDLY NZAM GUY...precisely OKPELIBA village.....GOD BLESS my TOWN.....thanks OP 4 d front page things....I doff my cap...

tabletman1:
I don't even know my senatorial district but I am from Nnewi south LGA you people are far too small to exceed 2%, have u been to normal anambra community during xmas? Have u even been to aguleri(otucha) your neighboring community during xmas and see the much population there? Orient are also doing their thing at aguleri, so don't make it seem like if they are drilling only the oil at nzam.

Where in Nnewi South?

KenGali:


Lol,
And do you not think that to paint it as an Igbo town is quite erroneous too.

Let me point something's out to you, war, occupation, military dominance where legitimate ways of forming communities in the past. Further, do you realize that at the time frame of your historical reference there were no political conscious creations called Igbo, nor Igala, not even Yoruba nor Hausa. These ethnic consciousness are all 20 th century creations, so am still wondering how one goes to label a town Igbo or Igala at a time when people never knew theses definitions.

There are substantial evidence that prove that the Igalla knew themselves as Igallas before the coming of the whites. And as for the Igbo speaking tribes, we knew ourselves, and those that are not part of us.

Yes Nzam is an Igboland in the past, and remains so today,as long as the surviving Igbo people there remain politically relevant there.

And before you forget, war, occupation and military might remains legitimate ways of forming and acquiring communities, even today.

PHIPEX:
OP, I identify with you, infact we are from same LG even though am 100% Igbo. But you should also agree that the state has recognised your area by citing Anambra West LG HQ in your town when it was created in 1996 even though it is smaller than most other Anam towns. This is highly unlike the domineering posture of the Nigerian state. You will agree the state has embraced you as one of us. Though I wish you success in your pursuit but I think this energy should be directed towards seeking more of infrastructural development in your town especially the federal road connecting you to Otuocha through Anam which has been under construction since when I was born.

Do u know Nzam or are just being bias. Thanks for your i still believe that Our able governor, Mr willie Obiano who have promise us better infrastural development will fulfill his promise.

KenGali:


You and your Aunt are irrelevant to the issue of discuss. Whether Igalas encroached by war or by begging is also irrelevant. The real fact is that as at Oct 1960 they were there, on Oct. 9, 2014 they are still there, and have full rights of occupancy. In case you do not know, indigenes hip has no special position in the constitution if Nigeria, nor that of Biafra just for saying.

Further Anambra state does not equate to Igbo, it is an economic and administrative convenience. To tell you the truth, if not that Nigeria puts everything upside down, most of you writing here have no citizenship claims in Anambra since majority live outside the state. You only have a cultural affiliation with Anambra which is just for sentiments. States are not, and were never created for blood homogeneity. Anybody looking for blood homogeneity in the 21st century is extremely stupid! "That's one of the conclusions of Germans about African definition of citizenship".

Last but not the least, any single language or even a variant dialect take hundreds of years to evolve. Every language is like a unique animal specie. It is a human heritage that belongs not just to the speakers, but to our collective wealth as humanity. Hence it is our collective responsibility to ensure that all such language samples are preserved. France and Germany are areas where minorities have been assimilated, yet their languages and cultures are carefully preserved and documented for the future. Why can't we ever think like progressive people instead of always showing the tendency of cavemen.

As far as I know, Anambra state being only Igbo is not an achievement of any sort and holds no special benefit

Ol boy let's talk a little. Please in what part of Deutschland are u living? When did the Germans summon the moral authority to lecture Africans on peaceful co-coexistence? Knowing fully well the historical German take on citizenship and what it means to them? Erhlich, Ich weiss es nicht ganz

pazienza:


There are substantial evidence that prove that the Igalla knew themselves as Igallas before the coming of the whites. And as for the Igbo speaking tribes, we knew ourselves, and those that are not part of us.

Yes Nzam is an Igboland in the past, and remains so today,as long as the surviving Igbo people there remain politically relevant there.

No, there are substantial evidence for use of the terms Igala, Igbo
Not for the definition of Today's Igbo political group. Before Nigeria, every Igbo community considered itself distinctly different from the next community. You need to talk a bit with the people of older generation. My grandfather spent a good part of his youth black smithing in Ejule around the 1940s. In telling me that story, he never said he went to Igala, no no! He went to Ejule, it took me a while to figure out today's Ejule.

I also need to show you that the communities we call Igala today were dominating the trade on the Niger rivers. In all the history of wars and counters, there was non where there was an Igbo wide reaction. Wars where fought community vs community. Showing a lack of ethnic wide political consciousness. Infact I doubt if there is any word or concept for ethnic in Igbo language nor Igala.

KenGali:

No, there are substantial evidence for use of the terms Igala, Igbo
Not for the definition of Today's Igbo political group. Before Nigeria, every Igbo community considered itself distinctly different from the next community. You need to talk a bit with the people of older generation. My grandfather spent a good part of his youth black smithing in Ejule around the 1940s. In telling me that story, he never said he went to Igala, no no! He went to Ejule, it took me a while to figure out today's Ejule.

I also need to show you that the communities we call Igala today were dominating the trade on. The Niger rivers. In all the history of wars and counters, there was non where there was an Igbo wide reaction. Wars where fought community vs community. Showing a lack of ethnic wide political consciousness. Infact I doubt if there is any word or concept for ethnic in Igbo language nor Igala.

www.thesourceng.com/MisadventureFebruary12010.htm

Obeagwe is an ancient Igbo community with major part of it with origin from Iddah. Obeagwe is atleast 500years old, but one of it's two major groups that came from Idah have been known as Umuezeigalla since the founding of the town. The other group is Umuezearoli.

KenGali:

No, there are substantial evidence for use of the terms Igala, Igbo
Not for the definition of Today's Igbo political group. Before Nigeria, every Igbo community considered itself distinctly different from the next community. You need to talk a bit with the people of older generation. My grandfather spent a good part of his youth black smithing in Ejule around the 1940s. In telling me that story, he never said he went to Igala, no no! He went to Ejule, it took me a while to figure out today's Ejule.

I also need to show you that the communities we call Igala today were dominating the trade on. The Niger rivers. In all the history of wars and counters, there was non where there was an Igbo wide reaction. Wars where fought community vs community. Showing a lack of ethnic wide political consciousness. Infact I doubt if there is any word or concept for ethnic in Igbo language nor Igala.

Well there are substantial evidence for the use of the term Igbo as a political grouping and equally as a lingual grouping. Personal names that denotes the Igbo as a grouping have been in existence for centuries such Igboanugo, Onuigbo, Igbokwe etc. There was this sense of entity though was not really important. The clans as well obviously recognised their lingul homogeniety to a large extent.

Deltagiant:


Ol boy let's talk a little. Please in what part of Deutschland are u living? When did the Germans summon the moral authority to lecture Africans on peaceful co-coexistence? Knowing fully well the historical German take on citizenship and what it means to them? Erhlich, Ich weiss es nicht ganz

Lol, ok seems you stay in German, I don't. But German scholar's have identified the blood line definition of citizenship by Africans as the major Fuel for the harvest of post colonial violence and civil wars, as well as our inability to leap in development given that the path has been well worn by westerners. I will give you a. Link to the article whenever I find it. But the truth is that is not something we. Need to contest.

As to their moral authority, do not cast your eyes to the Second World War, rather to the fact that today's German Ethnic group emerged from several distinctly different Tribes of the medieval era. So that is a lesson in citizenship that they took centuries to learn, and then wonder why we would like to reinvent the wheel.

Deltagiant:


Well there are substantial evidence for the use of the term Igbo as a political grouping and equally as a lingual grouping. Personal names that denotes the Igbo as a grouping have been in existence for centuries such Igboanugo, Onuigbo, Igbokwe etc. There was this sense of entity though was not really important. The clans as well obviously recognised their lingul homogeniety to a large extent.

I need not argue,
Just mention 3 major actions taken by this your Igbo political grouping between the 10th and 17th century, and you have me by the Juggler!

KenGali:

Lol, ok seems you stay in German, I don't. But German scholar's have identified the blood line definition of citizenship by Africans as the major Fuel for the harvest of post colonial violence and civil wars, as well as our inability to leap in development given that the path has been well worn by westerners. I will give you a. Link to the article whenever I find it. But the truth is that is not something we. Need to contest.

As to their moral authority, do not cast your eyes to the Second World War, rather to the fact that today's German Ethnic group emerged from a several distinctly different Tribes of the medieval era. So that is a lesson in citizenship that they took centuries to learn, and then wonder why we would like to reinvent the wheel.

It is not an issue of second world war but i just think Germany as a reference point here was somewhat a misnomer. Even the post war German immigration policy has not been favorable to the non Germans as opposed to ethnic germans who have been enjoying the right of return to the Einigvaterland. Germans from Hungary to Volga are Germans once in Germany above any other group. No lessons to be learnt here, rather they've got much to learn from the Igbo and Igala. Truth.

KenGali:

I need not argue,
Just mention 3 major actions taken by this your Igbo political grouping between the 10th and 17th century, and you have me by the Juggler!

My friend, like what kind of actions? Olaudah Equiano identified himself with his community and secondly as an Igbo. He wouldn't have said that had there not been a sense of igbo identity at the time, or even preceding the period.