If you don't aks for it to be done, what happens?

shdemidemi:


I should tell you what I asked my God! ok.. I asked for His will to be done in all that concerns me.

vooks:

If you don't aks for it to be done, what happens?

It will be done anyway... whether I ask or not. My request is a way of communicating with my God. I have explained this bit, I don't know how else you want to hear it.

If you leave me to pray naturally, I will never pray for pain. But if it is through my pain that God will be glorified, I completely embrace it.

Jesus asked for the will of God to be done... The will of God was for him to be slaughtered. Today, I know the death of Jesus was good because it saved humanity from damnation.

vooks:
let's see what we have learnt from you

1.
I do not believe we should be going to God with a mindset that we want a problem solved.

2. He knows all you need for the journey He had prepared even before you were born. All those things you think you need are secondary, the primary assignment is to look for God and carry out His work

3. , asking is a part of prayer

4. I believe we are free to pour our minds to God, and ask whatever we choose to ask,

5.
Sometimes we get better when we speak out. Instead of looking for that person to pour your out to or cry to, why not take it to God in prayers.

6. I ask when it feels like its so painful to suppress the pain within me,

So you should NEVER seek solutions to your problems in prayers because God already knows what you need but you should aks something in prayers because aksing is part of prayers and you are free to aks and pour out your heart especially since it feels better speaking out. That's why you should aks when you are painfully suppressing the pain within you. Just remember don't try to get solutions

You are confused. Totally

shdemidemi's view of prayer is more consistent with what you and I observe daily in the lives of christians. How many time have you seen believers with a mountain of faith ask God for one one goody or the other without getting anything?
If indeed you are right, christians would have less of everyday problems compared to people of other faith and no faith. But in truth, they have as much monetary worries as anyone else; the surfer broken marriages as much as anyone else; they surfer untimely death as much as anyone else.
So statistically, they are not better off than anyone else, which would be surprising if not for the fact that the treasure promised to believers by Jesus are of the heavenly kind and not physical.

So, what's the point of asking? Just to hear my own voice?

shdemidemi:


It will be done anyway... whether I ask or not. My request is a way of communicating with my God. I have explained this bit, I don't know how else you want to hear it.

If you leave me to pray naturally, I will never pray for pain. But if it is through my pain that God will be glorified, I completely embrace it.

Jesus asked for the will of God to be done... The will of God was for him to be slaughtered. Today, I know the death of Jesus was good because it saved humanity from damnation.

@ dorox

That is someone thinking and not religious folks doing a disservice to christianity. They lock up their brain as long as a man claims to be a pastor or a G.O.

@vooks
On the contrary what shemidemi has been saying makes so much sense. That's the kind of Christianity that is balanced and breeds strong personalities who can withstand trials without loosing faith.

Bidam and Joagbaje's brand of Christianity breeds people like frustratedman who have a small set back and start to curse God....or the other clown that failed JAMB and became an atheist.

vooks:
So, what's the point of asking? Just to hear my own voice?

You do not have to ask.

Why then do you aks?

shdemidemi:



You do not have to ask.

honeychild:
@vooks

Bidam and Joagbaje's brand of Christianity breeds people like frustratedman who have a small set back and start to curse God....or the other clown that failed JAMB and became an atheist.

Hmmn, you think so? maybe your conversion was easy believism in some of these churches where a testimony moved your emotions. Are you genuinely born again? Do you believe in the baptism of the Holy ghost with tongues as evidence? You never start your christian journey be that if you are not born of the spirit.

Even as a baby christian when i gave my life to Christ, persecution came because i was born in a muslim home, anything i ask God, God gave me. So it comes as a shock and surprise when so called christian who were born in Christians homes talk about frustrations and the likes.

vooks:
Why then do you aks?

I hardly ask, instead I give thanks. The more I grow in God the less I ask and the more I thank Him. Especially when I continually come across words like persevere, endure, hope, work in my bible.

You say aksing is part of prayer. Now you are projecting aksing as a phase you outgrow. The few times you aks, why do you aks? Do you have memory relapses where you forget that aksin is irrelevant?

shdemidemi:


I hardly ask. The more I grow in God the less I ask. Especially when I continually come across words like persevere, endure, hope, work in my bible.

vooks:
You say aksing is part of prayer. Now you are projecting aksing as a phase you outgrow. The few times you aks, why do you aks? Do you have memory relapses where you forget that aksin is irrelevant?

hahaha its become a joke to you now, run along bro. I have nothing more to add, you can make whatever deductions you fancy.

It makes more sense because it is CARNAL and a belief that's highly devoid of God in it. It is intuitive and the most natural way to look at Jesus. I don't blame the criminal at the cross who mocked Jesus; all he saw was a fellow criminal crucified and he heard that he was a King. That's the natural shdemidemi-esque approach to God

The repenting thug who through the bloodied body saw a King and a Kingdom, that's another level. And he never hesitated to ASK. He received.

So it is really down to you to resign to fate and sovereignty.

Take it further, what;s the point of sharing the gospel? Doesn't God's will prevail in the end?

Never aks nothing because His will will prevail anyway but you can whine all you want to him because that's therapeutic. Don't even expect solutions. So if you don't pray for solutions are you praying for problems?

honeychild:
@vooks
On the contrary what shemidemi has been saying makes so much sense. That's the kind of Christianity that is balanced and breeds strong personalities who can withstand trials without loosing faith.

Bidam and Joagbaje's brand of Christianity breeds people like frustratedman who have a small set back and start to curse God....or the other clown that failed JAMB and became an atheist.

vooks:
Why then do you aks?

I and shdemidemi are in agreement that God's will must alway come to be whether it pleases us or not, but where I disagree with him is that prayer is not just an empty chat to God that yeilds no tangible bennefits.
When we pray for God's will to be done like Jesus did, the our father in heaven sends us his holy spirit to strenghten us in our resolve to do what we already know to be right even in the midst of extreme difficulties when others who are reliant on the strenght of their will alone would have long since caved in to follow the path of least resistance.
My point is that the early apostles were able to persevere through hard times without losing faith because of the power of the holy spirit in them. The holy spirit did not make them rich neither dit it make them healthier or to outlive people of their time.

dorox:

I and shdemidemi are in agreement that God's will must alway come to be whether it pleases us or not, but where I disagree with him is that prayer is not just an empty chat to God that yeilds no tangible bennefits.
When we pray for God's will to be done like Jesus did, the our father in heaven sends us his holy spirit to strenghten us in our resolve to do what we already know to be right even in the midst of extreme difficulties when others who are reliant on the strenght of their will alone would have long since caved in to follow the path of least resistance.
My point is that the early apostles were able to persevere through hard times without losing faith because of the power of the holy spirit in them. The holy spirit did not make them rich neither dit it make them healthier or to outlive people of their time.

Thank you dorox.

There is one chapter that explains the complete ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is ROMANS 8. Do we actually need to pray to get the Holy Spirit to do His work of consoling and comforting us at difficult times?

vooks:
Enda church

Lol Nilienda church jana.

SirJohn, please what's happening to the money? Is Joagbaje refusing to pay up or what?

hapo sawa
I missed, had errands the whole day

Kenyan28:



Lol Nilienda church jana.

SirJohn:
I know that some of you reading this right now know the genesis of what is about to follow. For others, you may need a little trip down memory lane so that the motive behind this thread will be clearly understood.

I want to state that my main purpose of publishing the result of this investigation is solely borne out of the deep sense of responsibility that I owe posterity. I do not believe in pulling down another man just for the sake of winning an argument so I have spoken with Joagbaje to tow the path of honour and apologize for publishing a false testimony and explain his role in the whole mess.
I believe he has already retraced his steps as he has already removed the link to the video previously attached to his signature in his NL profile.

Now to the main story;

It all started from this thread www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school on Christ Embassy Healing School thread that I opened 6 years ago in November 2008, Joagbaje who I later knew to be a pastor in Christ Embassy church was a regular visitor on that thread and was constantly in defense of Pastor Chris and the Christ Embassy Church.
In April 2010, a young lady from Kenya (@kenyan28) also a nairalander came on that thread and claimed she was healed of HIV at the Christ embassy healing school in Randburg South Africa. Many of us warned her to be careful and make sure she does a follow up test to really confirm that she was free of the HIV virus. These warnings fell on deaf ears but rather what we got back were insults from her and her Christ embassy supporters.

In 2012, the same lady came back on the same thread to say that her new born baby has tested HIV positive and that she also tested positive herself confirming our initial fears. She would later go on to reveal some other facts that confirmed that she was never healed at the healing school in the first place. She has since moved on and is living a healthy and happy life with her family after she later explored various medical and herbal treatments for herself and her daughter.

In September this year, the healing school thread came on the front page of Nairaland again after some years of calmness. The Kenyan 28 issue was again hotly debated, words were again exchanged, claims and counter claims again erupted. Around this time, Joagbaje had been making claims of traveling to Tanzania to heal a man who had the Ebola disease, he also claimed he healed a man of HIV in one of his meetings; he posted a link to the video and gave the man’s name and cell phone number and dared anyone to prove that the healing was ‘fake’.

In several of his posts, Joagbaje goaded, taunted and challenged me to investigate and prove his story was a lie, he called it an ‘open challenge’ and even said he would give me half a million Naira if I was able to do it.

Here are some of his posts:













In late September 2014, I decided to go all in and investigate the healing claim published by Joagabje in this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b01qsooOYs


Please stay tuned for more shocking details from the investigation

U must share the 500k lol

WinsomeX:
SirJohn, please what's happening to the money? Is Joagbaje refusing to pay up or what?

Pastor Chris is in Bayelsa

Boss13:

Pastor Chris is in Bayelsa

The more reason it should be easier to pay.

vooks:
It makes more sense because it is CARNAL and a belief that's highly devoid of God in it. It is intuitive and the most natural way to look at Jesus. I don't blame the criminal at the cross who mocked Jesus; all he saw was a fellow criminal crucified and he heard that he was a King. That's the natural shdemidemi-esque approach to God

The repenting thug who through the bloodied body saw a King and a Kingdom, that's another level. And he never hesitated to ASK. He received.

So it is really down to you to resign to fate and sovereignty.

Take it further, what;s the point of sharing the gospel? Doesn't God's will prevail in the end?

Never aks nothing because His will will prevail anyway but you can whine all you want to him because that's therapeutic. Don't even expect solutions. So if you don't pray for solutions are you praying for problems?

You are still dodging the thrust of our argument which is, if what you say is true, then christians will be better off compared to those of other faith and no faith.
The issue of carnality would only be applicable here if your views on prayer holds up to reality, that is ifthere was an obvious positive gap between the well being of christians compare to the well being of others.

But as it turns out, your view of prayer does not fit with reality, hence the question why?

Where is joagbaje?

The thrust of your argument is wrong. You are measuring the efficacy of prayers by the welfare of Christians.
Here are your premises
1. Christians are not likely to fare better than non-Christians in this world (Agreed)
2. Christians pray to God and He listens/hears but non-Christians prayers He does not

CONCLUSION
Prayers don't help Christians lead better lives

Now, look closely at 1. BETTER in what/whose terms?
Jesus Christ prayed that Peter's faith fail not
The apostles prayed for boldness during persecution

Was Peter's life or the apostles' any better compared to the non-Christians after the prayers?

dorox:


You are still dodging the thrust of our argument which is, if what you say is true, then christians will be better off compared to those of other faith and no faith.
The issue of carnality would only be applicable here if your views on prayer holds up to reality, that is ifthere was an obvious positive gap between the well being of christians compare to the well being of others.

But as it turns out, your view of prayer does not fit with reality, hence the question why?

WinsomeX:


The more reason it should be easier to pay.

On the contrary, it would make it more difficult for him to pay oooo! It costs a lot of money to host pastor chris and his entourage, it would definitely affect Joagbaje's cash flow.

PastorKun:


On the contrary, it would make it more difficult for him to pay oooo! It costs a lot of money to host pastor chris and his entourage, it would definitely affect Joagbaje's cash flow.

Oh please I was joking about Pastor Chris being in Bayelsa. Well, I know joagbaje is reading this probably as a guest. He is hibernating. On a serious note, he needs to be called to make that payment.

Nobody forced him to make the statement. He was just so convinced and proud. See what his mouth has costed him.

Joe, running away cannot help you. You need to pay and as soon as possible. Payment is not to redeem your image/reputation oh. That image is dead, buried and gone.

No we don't
All exhortations to prayer are carnal and uninspired

shdemidemi:


Thank you dorox.

There is one chapter that explains the complete ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is ROMANS 8. Do we actually need to pray to get the Holy Spirit to do His work of consoling and comforting us at difficult times?

vooks:

No we don't
All exhortations to prayer are carnal and uninspired

Are you bored?

I am not here to convince you bro, I am here to say what the book says. If you do not agree with scripture or find it hard to comprehend these things, tough.

Boss13:


Oh please I was joking about Pastor Chris being in Bayelsa. Well, I know joagbaje is reading this probably as a guest. He is hibernating. On a serious note, he needs to be called to make that payment.

Nobody forced him to make the statement. He was just so convinced and proud. See what his mouth has costed him.

Joe, running away cannot help you. You need to pay and as soon as possible. Payment is not to redeem your image/reputation oh. That image is dead, buried and gone.

That's true joagbaje you really need to pay this 500k oh! That's the least you can do to reddem your already tattered reputation. As a christian(talkless of a pastor) your word should be your bond and the tiny little integrity you have left is at stake so in your best interest kindly be a man of your word.

You don't need prayers. What else don't you need? Holy Spirit?

shdemidemi:

Are you bored?

I am not here to convince you bro, I am here to say what the book says. If you do not agree with scripture or find it hard to comprehend these things, tough.

shdemidemi:


I have a child that never ask me for the necessary things he needs. All he ask are stupid things like sweetie, games et al which I try to provide sometimes. But he would never ask me for the university he is going to go to, the course he will take, how we have a house to live in, where the next meal will come from. I don't blame him for this because he is only a child. Like my child, you are only being a (spiritual babe) child when you go to God asking for frivolities (you might not see them as that).

Look for God through His Word alone and stop being vain. Christianity is not a SELFIE call, rather it is a call to SERVICE.

Hebrew saying: A foolish father begets a foolish son.

AlfaSeltzer:


Hebrew saying: A foolish father begets a foolish son.

You are right.