now a quote from the koran about Mohammed.Check it out yourself.

In another place God told Mohammad that "we have made such women available to you without any payment to them, these are all your cousins, slave women and any Moslem woman who would like to give you herself, or any women whom you desire free of charge." So slavery at least for women was quite common. See Koran 33-50.

and what is koran 33-50?

See Koran 33-50.

     

stop going to quote from "bible scholars" whose identities and faiths leave much to be desired. Christianity is a way of life that is not subject to the interpretations of a few unscrupulous "scholars" who are only attempting to justify their disbelief in the bibl

erm some one has been quoting from the so called leaders n scholars  too

loverbwoy stop being funny.
33:50 it is.

To begin with, the Quran justifies slavery, and often mentions slaves. Here are some relevant verses:



33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."



This verse clearly shows that Muslims believe that taking slaves in war was a God-given right. These slaves were considered 'booty' or the spoils of war. As the saying goes: to the victors go the spoils.





23:5 - ", except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them:, "



The passage's context here (not quoted in full) details how Muslim males are allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls. Implicit in this is that Muslim males had slave-concubines. 70:30 is basically a repeat of 23:5.



Ibn Sa'd's "Tabaqat", gives a clear description of Muhammad having "relations" with at least one of his slave girls. Muhammad had sexual relations with Mariyah, his Coptic slave. Mariyah and her sister, Sirin were slaves given as gifts to Muhammad. Muhammad gave Sirin to Hasan Thabit, the poet. Ibn Sa'd says that Muhammad "liked Mariyah, who was of white complexion, with curly hair and pretty." [Taken from Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), p151].

Ibn Sa'd also writes that Mariyah bore Muhammad a son named Ibrahim. He died 18 months later. Sa'd writes: "If he had lived, no maternal uncle of his would have remained in bondage", p164. This shows that there were other Coptic slaves owned by the Muslims.





The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]



While I think it's nice to allow a slave to obtain his freedom, (at his master's discretion) it is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place. That's like robbing a bank and giving some of the money back to the bank, and thinking you did the right thing!





The above verses show that taking slaves was ordained by Allah, and that it was permissible for Muslim males to have sex with their female slaves. It also shows that slaves were a valuable commodity to the Muslims, otherwise, Allah would not have imposed the penalty of freeing a slave to make up for a crime.







----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

google is good u know , kai u are teaching me copy and past even

"Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed." (Timothy I 6:1)

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you." [/color](Leviticus 25:44)

"If a man lies carnally with a woman who is a slave, betrothed to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, an inquiry shall be held. They shall not be put to death, [color=#000099]because she was not free" (Leviticus 19:20)

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money." (Exodus 21:20-21)

And the Lord said, "When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labour for you and shall serve you[/color], "

(Deuteronomy 20:10-11)

"And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant" (Genesis 9:26)

"So the Canaanites have dwelt in the midst of Ephraim to this day, but become slaves to do forced labour." (Josh 16:10)

"And all the people that were left of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, which were not the children of Israel; their children that were left after them in the land, whom the children of Israel also were not able utterly to destroy, upon those did Solomon levy a tribute of bondservice unto this day."(I Kings 9:20-21)

"but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him." (Exodus 12:44)

"[color=#990000]When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing." (Exodus 21:2)

@ loverbwoy

Were you dragged here by mukina2? methinks so!

erm i think i actaully start posting before she did on this thread, mukina is in the sports thread i think if ur looking for her

@loverbwouy you don't understand the bible.
Old testament laws were to the Israelites of the time,they are not Christian teachings and even the jews now recognise them as teachings and laws of that time.
They are not applicable today.

Christians ie followers of Christ do not seek to enslave anyone,denounce it will condemn any Christian that enslaves anyone let alone rapes them.It is not a Christian teaching by any stretch.
Christ owned no slaves and enslaved no one.
People who owned slaves at the time of Christs ministry on earth were told to treat them fairly,pay them their due wages and so on.
They were never encouraged to enslave people.

Muhammad au contraire owned slaves,raped his slaves and encouraged his followers to do same.
Hopefully I've taught you something about Christianity.
Since you do not denounce Mohammeds action but would rather post old testament texts as a Christian example,I take it that it is allowed in Islam,or am I wrong?[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]

you might be wrong but because i do not claim to be a "scholar" i wont argue with you i know you are an expert in religious conflicts,racism,tribbalism and sectarian threads

_{muhammed's action were written and documented by who?}i can denounce some his actions because he is human,
Do u denounce what the british _christians did to africa

[Quran 5:87] , and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.

[Quran: 7:199] , You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.

[Quran 60:8]"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable

@ loverbwoy

it is the same oft rehashed muslim rhetoric, throw in a few "good sounding" quranic verses in an attempt to drown out the multiple "kill the apes and infidels" verses that fill the quran.
If anyone was ever a symbol of hate, intolerance, immorality and perverseness,Mohammed couldnt have fit this bill better!

yes and the good old soundin " thats the old bible" or is it those are catholics they are the weird christains, or those cele people are not real christians or cherubum n serabum** is this and that

You as human will chose what to live by, come on sense

_{muhammed is not the religion you got a first class i didnt}

All pro Islam in this forum . let me give u one major point that would make u have no reason to argue again .

Basically Islam is following the deeds and way of Mohammed and Christianity if following the deed and way of Christ .
We have seen Hundred and one things according to your Holy book that are so so wrong about Mohammed's deed .
PLEASE I PUT IT TO YOU ALL TO FIND JUST ONE BAD DEED OF CHRIST AS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE .
If u can not then , lets forget this auguement .

lovebwouy if you want to know more about Christ,let me know.

neoteny,ayinla2005,mukina2 and loverbwuoy(not sure you are Muslim)
forgive my in your face kind of attitude but consider all the things I said.
If you feel you've been dealt a bill of goods in the name of Islam,it's never too late to come to Christ as long as you still have breathe in you.

I'm sure I would feel exactly the way you do if I were born a Muslim.
But you are adults now(I hope)
Study the life of the man you hold to great esteem ie Mohammed.
If you have doubts,that may be Christ tugging at your hearts.

He(Jesus Christ) says come unto me all who are heavy laden and I'll give you rest.
None other can fill that vacuum in every heart except the Holy Spirit.
6 million Africans annually turn to Christ .
You can be part of that number today if you open up your heart.
There is no ceremony needed,if you ask Christ to come into your heart,He is there.

You have now heard the gospel of peace and I know that a seed has been sown in your heart that will germinate and grow.
Christ has the power to save and deliver,fill your heart with love and mercy,if he did it for some he can do it for you.

I leave you with this site.
God bless you.

http://isaalmasih.net/index.html

Please i want every member of this forum the please listen and check out this analogy .

I want to bring your attention to the IFA worshipers world wide . I am sure u all would be wondering where i am going .
. All ifa worshiper world wide ( in Yoruba band , Brasil , Cuba , USA , Haiti .etc ) .
1.they all must speak that yoruba language for incantation ( no matter what their mother tongue is ) .
2 They must perform ritual and blood sacrifice .
3.they have a special way of performing their prayers and worship ( same way world wide )
4. they all have their 'OPELE' ( the beads with string attaching the beads for prayer.
5. some come to yoruba land to see the source of their worship
6. They all have their Image which represent their God which they all face and bow for .

SIMILARITY WITH ISLAM .\

1. All Allah worshiper worldwide must speak Arabic for prayers
2.They must kill ram yearly for sacrifice .
3. They all have same special way of prayer
4. They all have they tesbiu ( beads with string attached for prayers
5. Some go to Mecca to see the source of their worship
6. All Allah worshiper face the Karbah and bow down for Allah


DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO

Ifa worshipers know they are Idol worshiper cos the can see the image of what they are bowing for but Allah worshipers dont know what they are bowing down for . They dont know what is in the Kahbah .

I hope this is convincing enough . thank you

Please i want every member of this forum the please listen and check out this analogy .

I want to bring your attention to the IFA worshipers world wide . I am sure u all would be wondering where i am going .
. All ifa worshiper world wide ( in Yoruba band , Brasil , Cuba , USA , Haiti .etc ) .
1.they all must speak that yoruba language for incantation ( no matter what their mother tongue is ) .
2 They must perform ritual and blood sacrifice .
3.they have a special way of performing their prayers and worship ( same way world wide )
4. they all have their 'OPELE' ( the beads with string attaching the beads for prayer.
5. some come to yoruba land to see the source of their worship
6. They all have their Image which represent their God which they all face and bow for .

SIMILARITY WITH ISLAM .\

1. All Allah worshiper worldwide must speak Arabic for prayers
2.They must kill ram yearly for sacrifice .
3. They all have same special way of prayer
4. They all have they tesbiu ( beads with string attached for prayers
5. Some go to Mecca to see the source of their worship
6. All Allah worshiper face the Karbah and bow down for Allah


DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO

Ifa worshipers know they are Idol worshiper cos the can see the image of what they are bowing for but Allah worshipers dont know what they are bowing down for . They dont know what is in the Kahbah .

HOW CHRISTIANITY DIFFERS COMPLETELY FROM IDOL WORSHIP

1.Christians speak their native language to communicate to God .God understands all languages
2.Christians dont kill any animal for sacrifice . Christ did that for them 2000 years ago.
3 . Christians pray to God as the holy spirit lay in their heart
4. Christians dont keep any beads for prayers.
5. Christians dont have to go any where to see God . God is every where
6. Christians dont have any direction they must face to pray to God . God is every where

I hope this is convincing enough . thank you

Muslims will not denigrade the personnality of Christ Jesus.

You and I know that the muslim nation is the best. In which part of the world would a shop-owner leave his shop full of gold without locks for the purpose of prayers 5 times a day and will come back to meet the shop unbugled. Surely in the Islamic country.

When smeone is prejudiced, he fails to see the good of a people or a nation and even unconsciously colors the good as bad.

The worship of One true God that Jesus exhorted you to ( Mark 12 Verse 28 )is what the muslims are putting into practise.

I have noted how you misinterprete verse of the Quran to give it the slant and meaning you want to convey. Thank God some of us know the Quran and the Hadith. But let me ask you people, why must you resort to lies and half truth to preach christianity. Is that how Jesus called the disciples. I think for using lies and fabrications in your arguements, you should repent. God is ever forgiving.

You can then humbly accept the religion of Truth, the ideal religion for mankind of all races, generations and places. Remember that this is the religion of Jesus, Moses, Ibrahim, Sulaymon and all the Prophets of God. Whoever takes up another religion, it will not be accepted from him by God and on the day of judgement he will be among the losers. I pray for your souls not to be among the losers.

@Babyosi

I am not going to blame anyone. and who r u to be judging what was written in the Koran?

When Christians do things in a harsh way or act stupidly no one condemn them. so why do u condemn the Muslims?

i am not a Muslim so y'all shld not think i am supporting anyone. i want people to think b4 typing out what they think or feel on here.

twinkledew:

@Babyosi

I am not going to blame anyone. and who r u to be judging what was written in the Koran?

Have nothing to say to you on this honey.

Shallom.

@babyosi

that is not the best way to convert people.

look deep into christianity as a whole. go down on ur knees and ask God to forgive you. ask him to give u wisdom and understanding. come back on here and do the right thing.

In this thread, I find three particular topic areas interesting.

1. Religion.
2. Context of Abstract.
3. Definition of terrorism.

The first subject of discuss, which is Religion, tends to be used as a weapon, on the basis of supposed member behavioral observed proofs, and some choose to take a defensive position to save themeselves from being guilty, of what they term wrong, by saying their line of belief is not what they term as Religion. Surprisingly someone said Christianity is not a religion along the line. That I find very interesting.

The context of abstract, is another area that has been evasively used along st the line of argument, A possible derived conclusion on that would be, its OK for me to quote from your Reference to Authority, without paying attention to the context of the Abstract, but its not OK for you to quote from my Reference to Authority without paying attention to the Abstract. That to many of us in this thread is an acceptable method to smear those that you do not agree with.

The definition of terrorism is notoriously difficult: the term has been given a variety of definitions, many of which contradict others; and definitions are colored by political ideology, location, and perspective. The audience in this thread should be taken into account when such a term is used.

My advice to anybody henceforth that chooses to argue for or against the topic of this thread, is to evaluate himself or herself, before choosing to use any tactics. Methods such as attacking the arguer, quoting out of context, quoting without proofs, using fallacious and insensible line of arguments should be avoided.

This is meant for the educated thread contributors only, who plan to adhere to intellectual methods of discuss.

you dont have to dude.

arguing about religion does not solve anything. it only leads to more anger and hatered.

nuru:

Muslims will not denigrade the personnality of Christ Jesus.

You and I know that the muslim nation is the best. In which part of the world would a shop-owner leave his shop full of gold without locks for the purpose of prayers 5 times a day and will come back to meet the shop unbugled. Surely in the Islamic country.

When smeone is prejudiced, he fails to see the good of a people or a nation and even unconsciously colors the good as bad.

The worship of One true God that Jesus exhorted you to ( Mark 12 Verse 28 )is what the muslims are putting into practise.

I have noted how you misinterprete verse of the Quran to give it the slant and meaning you want to convey. Thank God some of us know the Quran and the Hadith. But let me ask you people, why must you resort to lies and half truth to preach christianity. Is that how Jesus called the disciples. I think for using lies and fabrications in your arguements, you should repent. God is ever forgiving.

You can then humbly accept the religion of Truth, the ideal religion for mankind of all races, generations and places. Remember that this is the religion of Jesus, Moses, Ibrahim, Sulaymon and all the Prophets of God. Whoever takes up another religion, it will not be accepted from him by God and on the day of judgement he will be among the losers. I pray for your souls not to be among the losers.

Nuru in those same Muslim countries,a man would be legally killed for denouncing Islam,young girls as young as 9 are given as 4th wives to a 60 year old,women are killed for committing adultery while the man goes free,a woman cannot drive,cannot be seen outside unless hooded and accompanied by a man,cannot be a witness in court,can be legally beaten by her husband.
Many more things I'll rather bite my tongue than say.

There are obviously good people no doubt,but you cannot make any generalisations and forget the obvious bad things.

A little sample of what I said earlier,if this does not bother anyone,Muslim,Christian or animist,then the person has no human heart.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5541006

Yes in countries like Saudi arabia where Shariah is supposedly practiced, you don't find women driving because they are not allowed to do so. This has made a lot of western activitist especially those that believe in Women freedom to question such act, but the question we need to ask ourselves is,

Is this particular act inherent in countries like Egypt, Tunisia or even Lebanon?'

What does this tell us?

I think whatever condition of living an arabian chooses to adhere to, should be accepted just the way it is, just the same way, you would be arrested in the USA, if you tried jogging naked on the streets. They call it indecent behaviour.

another article in our very own backyard.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/africanlives/ivory/ivory.htm

babyosisi:

another article in our very own backyard.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/africanlives/ivory/ivory.htm

And this link is supposed to tell us what exactly?

@ babyosi

i keep reading your comments to be honest i am disappointed in you. you think you know the bible more or Koran. you might have read them but i don't think u understand them. i told u earlier on. ask God to give you Understanding. u need it more. when he gives u that understanding come back on her and argue for or against. OK

@logical,Tunisian and Moroccan women are the most liberal of women in Islamic countries.
They are free to drive,dress well(by dressing well I don't mean provocatively).

They are not forced to wear covers when outside like in Saudi,they choose their own husbands and are free to divorce them.
Their laws give them that right.
They are also free to convert to Christianity if and when they choose.

I once met a colleague who was Morroccan but schooled in Tunisia,a female and learnt a lot from her.
She is a physician,some Muslim countries would not permit women go beyond a 2nd grade education.

It's not OK to say whatever the Arabian countries choose,it's OK because it's not.
A nine year old is not mature to consent for marriage and women are humans like everyone else and these laws cannot be nmade by men that feel they know what's best for you.
An apostate should not be killed.
It is a human rights issue and these Children and women have no voices so it is not OK.

twinkledew:

@ babyosi

i keep reading your comments to be honest i am disappointed in you. you think you know the bible more or Koran. you might have read them but i don't think u understand them. i told u earlier on. ask God to give you Understanding. u need it more. when he gives u that understanding come back on her and argue for or against. OK

Yes Ma.

Logical:

And this link is supposed to tell us what exactly?

Honestly you see nothing wrong there?It does not bother you that a young immature teenage girl is given to marry an older man.
If you tell me no then we really do have a problem.