has anyone thought about things that accompany religion in most country (ies) is Culture or Customs. People have added stuffs to what they believe in. they make it sound or look like what is expected of them from God, Allah or any other gods they serve.

Another ill in the religion,practised even in the west.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

An outrage at the basic violation of human rights (even at the expense of what Islam teaches) should not be viewed as an attack on Islam.

I would be suprised if well meaning Muslims with a good head on their shoulders don't condemn pedophilia and honor killing or killing of apostates.

No human has the right to decide that someone has outlived their usefulness or shamed the family in the name of any religion.
No Child should be subjected to a lifetime of abuse in the name of "marriage".
This is now 2006 AD not 2006BC

@babyosisi

Being liberal or not, are they muslims? Yes I suppose, exactly.

Now I do have a problem with the way you quickly assume that its ok for you to assume that whatever you think as right is right.

Whatever a group of people deem as acceptable should be respected, and thats exactly what the western world preaches, with all their freedom reforms.

If we do want to disagree with that, we should have a tangible generally acceptable humanitarian belief to support our choice.

If you point at Saudi Arabia for early marriages, I would point at the western world, for frequent Rapes, What we term as adultery, Murder, Teenage Pregnancy etc etc. How about legalising Prostitution?

We tend to think we are ok, and the school of taught we follow is ok, and there is nothing wrong with things arround us, and we direct our sentiments towards those we think we have superiority over, when in reality, all that is arround us stinks just the same way things we then to critisise stinks.

The question is, is that acceptable?

My answer to you is capital NO.
Rape is not ok
teenage pregnancies and abortions are ills.
Murders whether by armed robbers or suicide bombers are not OK.

If a woman chooses to sleep around with tons of men,is it OK for her to be killed?
The answer is a capital NO again.
We as humans do not have that right no matter how much we argue,we do not have that right to kill her.
This has nothing to do with religion now just common sense.
You must agree with that or don't you?
(I'm learning everyday)

You are also pulling Crimes supposedly perpetuated by muslims from the net. How about I pull a christian one?

http://exchristian.net/2/2005/11/police-say-youth-pastor-killed-wife.php

This is a Pastor. Are we allowed to reach into the same conclusion you are reaching based on your refrences? No I suppose not, your case is different

Been following this thread for a while. Logical, you are equating forcing 9,11,12, 13 year olds into marriage with rape, adultery and all. What you fail to understand is this, all the vices in the west, is frowned upon and there are laws against all these things. Pray tell, is there a law against early marriage in all this Islamic countries? When caught, do they punish the 50yr old men?

Please, let's not muddle things up. What is bad is bad, What is good is good. What is right is right. Forcing kids to have kids is not only wrong, it is bad. Something needs to be done. The key word here is FORCE. You said something about legalizing prostitution. Guess what, no one is going to come put a gun on your head to go to the LovePeddler house. Freedom. That is what this kids don't have. They can't chose how to live their lifes.

So you still think its muslims that are bad? Not humans?

There is law against forced Marriages actually. Or am I wrong?

@logical you are missing the whole point or you have chosen to close your eyes to them.
There was a pastor in Nigeria in the news the other day that set fire on a parishioner,every Christian,Muslim or Ifa priest who is sane would say,punish him,lock him up and throw the keys away.

I would be the first to condemn any ills by anyone.
If a Christian,Christ did not teach us that and gave us no such examples,he asks us to love our neighbors and even our enemies.

I will NEVER defend any ills done by a Christian and NO Christian would,
But you my dear,you seem to find it difficult to openly call a spade a spade,or am I missing something here.

Sharia law forbids arranged marriage or any marriage that is forced or false in any way.

Please quote where exactly I support what you claim I support, dont assume, its wrong.

So in Sharia,a 4 or 9 year old as long as she does not say "I'm forced"it is perfectly OK

Age of maturity and age of consent is necessary before marriage can be approved by a shariah court. I think Shariah legal age is 15, but to be honest, thats even not what this thread is about.

I am responding, because you tend to accuse without facts.

So what do you think about Child marriage(even though a better term is pedophilia)
honor killings and killing of apostates who denounce Islam?
Direct answers please no beating around the bush so that I don't misunderstand you.

so what is that age?
3,4,5.7,13.
What is it?
I will quote you so be careful in answering.

I do not understand your question, please rephrase , thank you.

Depending on the country, In yemen its 15, that I know. In Saudi Arabia its 18. Confirmed.

Proof for interpol. http://www.interpol.int/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaSaudiArabia.pdf

I posted my last one before getting your response.
I am a Christian and you are a Muslim.
There are certain things I'll like to learn of you not from your Koran but from what you have been taught.
My questions are.

1,Does Sharia say to kill anyone who denounces Islam and is that what you all believe.

This one first.

Yes and No.

During the prophet's time, yes because you are classified a threat, due to the tension at that time.

Now, Nope, thats why in Afghanistan's the rulings was in favour of the man that coverted.

The same applies to christianity during the Crusade or was it before?, if you openly renouce your christian faith, what would happen to you? And Why?

Why were witches burnt? etc etc

Dear logical,the Afghan man was saved because the international community got involved.
Many have died before his case came to light.

So can I quote you that in Islam today there is no punishment for apostacy so anyone who kills or punishes someone for converting is a murderer and needs to be punished?

It's usually at this stage that bellotti,ajia23 and the other Muslims disappear on me.
please don't go OK.
Many others may benefit from your  answers.

Rather than the crusades which was wrong,I prefer to talk about during the time of Christ on earth and his teachings.

babyosisi:

Dear logical,the Afghan man was saved because the international community got involved.
Many have died before his case came to light.

Now you choose to believe that, and you claim that your assertions are from someone that really cares and believes that some muslims are liberal or can be.

What exactly do you want me to believe about the conclusion you want to reach? You see the problem? They are what I presume of them, and any actions they do now that does not agree with what I presume them to be, is because of the pressure I have on them, they would always be what I pressume them to be.

So please re-evaluate your judgements please.

babyosisi:

So can I quote you that in Islam today there is no punishment for apostacy so anyone who kills or punishes someone for converting is a murderer and needs to be punished?

How about I quote where God destroys a whole town in the bible because they are homosexuals, and hence wage a war against homosexuals, because God condemns them by destroying them and claim its holy?

We reason with context dont we?

Please reason objectively.

Logical:

Now you choose to believe that, and you claim that your assertions are from someone that really cares and believes that some muslims are liberal or can be.

What exactly do you want me to believe about the conclusion you want to reach? You see the problem? They are what I presume of them, and any actions they do now that does not agree with what I presume them to be, is because of the pressure I have on them, they would always be what I pressume them to be.

So please re-evaluate your judgements please.

I can post the articles to prove that.
How about Amina lawal in Nigeria about to be stoned under Sharia for adultery while the man was let go.
What saved her was the outcry from everyone.
Please let's not be sidetracked here.

To bring you back.we are talking about today aren't we? stop being evasive.

You still have not answered the question.
This is only the first one for I have a few more.

I am not evasive, I gave you a No and Yes answer and I was supporting my answers? Or that is not allowed? Or you dont like what you read? I taught Amina was raped?

The judgement on Amina was not based on Shariah procedures, of proofs and investigation hence why should it be accomodated as the Shariah's way?

Let me rephrase it.

Today,if a Muslim denounces his Islamic faith and becomes a Christian and any Muslim kills him.
Should the killer be charged with murder and punished for it?

waiting for your answer?because if a Christian does that EVERY Christian would agree that he needed to be punished.
Still waiting.

No, punishment by death shouldnt be allowed.

That law is actually reviewed in some countries under what is called FATWA.

A fatwa (Arabic: فتوى‎) plural fatāwa , is a legal pronouncement in Islam, done by a law specialist on an issue. Usually a fatwa is issued at the request of an individual or a judge to settle a question where "fiqh," Islamic jurisprudence, is unclear. A scholar capable of issuing fatwas is known as a mujtahid or a mufti. In many Muslim countries, e.g. Egypt, Tunisia, etc. there exists an official Mufti position, to which a distinguished expert in the field of Islamic law is named by the authorities of the country.

In the early days of Islam, fatawa were pronounced by distinguished scholars to provide guidance to other scholars, judges and citizens on how subtle points of Islamic law should be understood, interpreted or applied. There are strict rules on who is eligible to issue a valid fatwa and who cannot, as well as on the conditions the fatwa must satisfy to be valid.

According to the Islamic science called "Usul al-fiqh" (Principles of Jurisprudence), the latter are as follows :

1. The fatwa is in line with relevant legal proofs, deduced from Koranic verses and hadiths;
2. It is issued by a person (or a board) having due knowledge and sincerity of heart;
3. It is free from individual opportunism, and not depending on political servitude;
4. It is adequate with the needs of the contemporary world.

you still did not answer the question.
Should anyone who kills a convert be arrested and charged for murder?