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Muslims: Are We Bad? - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland

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Poll: Are muslims bad?

Yes: 42% (20 votes)
No, maybe not: 57% (27 votes)
This poll has ended

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Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by mukina2: 10:18pm On Aug 19, 2006
olaajia i copy now i wont reply to any other hypocrite again grin grin
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 10:32pm On Aug 19, 2006
hypocrite

one who puts on a mask and feigns himself to be what he is not; a dissembler in
religion. Our Lord severely rebuked the scribes and Pharisees for their
hypocrisy (Matt. 6:2, 5, 16). "The hypocrite's hope shall perish" (Job 8:13).
The Hebrew word here rendered "hypocrite" rather means the "godless" or
"profane," as it is rendered in Jer. 23:11, i.e., polluted with crimes.


Mukina2 you should be thankful you live in a free soceity where you can comfortably speak your mind without fear.
If you moved back to those Sharia places I'm speaking of,you will not have access to forums such as this,
That is the beauty of freedom which cannot be found in sharia.
[/color][color=#990000]
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Neoteny(m): 10:33pm On Aug 19, 2006
@superman
i am one of those "baboon hausa muslims" as you so eloquently put it, and i can understand your anger to be based on your petty tribalistic disposition.

@babyosisi
you have not said anything to subdue me, and my tone is meant to impose some sort of clearheadedness to this discussion. obviously its not working. i have no problem you pasting this things cos i know where you got them from the internet. they could have been issues for genuine discussion except for your insults. and you say i called you names? did that ruffle your feathers? well consider how Muhammad would have felt had he been here to see all your insults against his person.

@kamatare

the same thing happens elsewhere. the law of modern times are based on the christian canonical laws so its my right to feel free to resist aspects of it. france banished religious icons and symbols in their public schools, did anybody cry foul? in jerusalem and tel aviv you must abide by the laws of the jews regarding sabbath and all sorts of things. every society you go there are norms, and we muslims have the right to determine how to live in our society.

ok. seems we are done with humility here.

you narrow minded hate-fueled pagans can go on forever insulting us but all you'll ever succeed in doing is emboldening us to kill the whole lot of you fuckers. stupid-ass religion having three gods and a god who has sunk so low he has to impregnate some mortal chick just to get a lunatic "son" self-styling himself as a god. and his papa was so twisted he made him suffer intensely to save a "generation of vipers". Bleep that bullshit, your jesus was a fucking cack, a lying, blasphemous fake, an imposter and scam artist who played on illiterate idiots. son of god my ass, he was just a sore loser drunk on some shit so Bleep your jesus, Bleep  that rag you call bible and Bleep all you losers. we gonna kill every last one of you. i dare any of you fuckers to publicly make the statements you are making here and see if you'll last 24 hours. yes we are bad and violent but we are just killing scum and maggots and we wont stop. and your fucking jesus aint no son of god and the loser aint coming back. my own jesus was a mortal and was a prophet of allah, not your version cos you morons pereverted everything god said just to create an immoral society. so Bleep you all.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 10:58pm On Aug 19, 2006
For those who do not know about shariah and its intentions.

Hadd Crimes
Hadd crimes are those which are punishable by a pre-established punishment found in the Qur’an. These most serious of all crimes are found by an exact reference in the Qur’an to a specific act and a specific punishment for that act. There is no plea-bargaining or reducing the punishment for a Hadd crime. Hadd crimes have no minimum or maximum punishments attached to them. The punishment system is comparable to the determinate sentence imposed by some judges in the United States. If you commit a crime, you know what your punishment will be. There is no flexibility in the U.S. determinate model or in the punishment for Hadd crimes of Islamic Law.

No judge can change or reduce the punishment for these serious crimes. The Hadd crimes are:

1. Murder;
2. Apostasy from Islam [color=#990000][/color]

1. (making war upon Allah and His messengers)
1. Theft
2. Adultery
3. Defamation

2. (false accusation of adultery or fornication)
1. Robbery
2. Alcohol-drinking [any intoxicants]

The first four Hadd crimes have a specific punishment in the Qur’an. The last three crimes are mentioned but no specific punishment is found (Schmalleger, p.603).

Some more liberal Islamic judges do not consider apostasy from Islam or wine drinking as Hadd crimes. The more liberal Islamic nations treat these crimes as Tazir or a lesser crime.

Hadd crimes have fixed punishments because they are set by God and are found in the Qur’an. Hadd crimes are crimes against God’s law and Tazir crimes are crimes against society.

The rest of the story is found in www.shariah.net
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 11:05pm On Aug 19, 2006
Neoteny:

@superman
i am one of those "baboon hausa muslims" as you so eloquently put it, and i can understand your anger to be based on your petty tribalistic disposition.

@babyosisi
you have not said anything to subdue me, and my tone is meant to impose some sort of clearheadedness to this discussion. obviously its not working. i have no problem you pasting this things because i know where you got them from the internet. they could have been issues for genuine discussion except for your insults. and you say i called you names? did that ruffle your feathers? well consider how Muhammad would have felt had he been here to see all your insults against his person.

@kamatare

the same thing happens elsewhere. the law of modern times are based on the christian canonical laws so its my right to feel free to resist aspects of it. france banished religious icons and symbols in their public schools, did anybody cry foul? in jerusalem and tel aviv you must abide by the laws of the jews regarding sabbath and all sorts of things. every society you go there are norms, and we muslims have the right to determine how to live in our society.

ok. seems we are done with humility here.

you narrow minded hate-fueled pagans can go on forever insulting us but all you'll ever succeed in doing is emboldening us to kill the whole lot of you fuckers. stupid-ass religion having three gods and a god who has sunk so low he has to impregnate some mortal chick just to get a lunatic "son" self-styling himself as a god. and his papa was so twisted he made him suffer intensely to save a "generation of vipers". mess that bullshit, your jesus was a fucking cack, a lying, blasphemous fake, an imposter and scam artist who played on illiterate idiots. son of god my ass, he was just a sore loser drunk on some shit so mess your jesus, mess  that rag you call bible and mess all you losers. we going to kill every last one of you. i dare any of you fuckers to publicly make the statements you are making here and see if you'll last 24 hours. yes we are bad and violent but we are just killing scum and maggots and we wont stop. and your fucking jesus aint no son of god and the loser aint coming back. my own jesus was a mortal and was a prophet of allah, not your version because you morons pereverted everything god said just to create an immoral society. so mess you all.

I told you guys it wouldn't be long before they shake off that "peaceful" demeanor and act the best way they know how.
You have proven true to type and confirmed all we have said.
Mukina2 your man is about to blow himself up,allah may not have enough virgins left for him lol.

let me warn you that threats like these are not usually taken lightly by the FBI and MI5.
We may be online but they can sure locate you offline lol
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 11:17pm On Aug 19, 2006
@neoteny.
That's precisely what we're saying,that Islam is a religion founded with hate,terror,Arabian paganism mixed with poorly plagiarized Talmudic fables and old testament stories.And its so-called prophet as we now know was a war-monger,mass-murderer,rapist,paedophile who promised enclosed garden of paradise with wine, peopled with full breasted virgins for endless orgy and pleasure of Arab suicide bombers and their brothers in Northern Nigeria.
I use to have a grudging respect for him just because some people,and a few of them decent individuals, held him up as a sacred figure,but now I know he is not worth it.I will forever have the deepest contempt for him and his well documented atrocities.
The truth really hurts.

And the 1st poster of this thread can at last have his answer now from a true son of the Chiefest of the Terrorist himself,here is it; "YES WE ARE BAD AND VIOLENT BUT WE ARE JUST KILLING SCUM AND MAGGOTS AND WE WONT STOP"(NEOTENY).
Muhammad would have been proud of you were he alive!
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by mukina2: 11:21pm On Aug 19, 2006
*la ta ta khalam*
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 11:22pm On Aug 19, 2006
yada yada yada

meanwhile mukibabe,you look like a sweet person.I just looked at your picture.
How do you stay so slim? lol
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by mukina2: 11:30pm On Aug 19, 2006
lmao babyosis one minute we fight anuther minute we are friends,
thanx tho secret is i dont eat much grin grin grin
why dont you post urs
and i think you must stop keeping tabs on my religion angry kiss wink
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by enugu(f): 11:31pm On Aug 19, 2006
@neoteny

muslims are pricky about islam because to us it is more than a religion; it is a way of life and for something we hold above our lives it makes some sense if we get touchy when people commit sacrileges against us, doesnt it? mind you, i will feel similar inflammation of passion should jesus or any of the prophets of the holy Bible be insulted.


So tell me, Neoteny, if someone wants to convert to Islam, isn't it only sensible that they inquire about what they

are getting themselves into? How then can you encourage someone who's interested in your religion by getting all prickly about it?

Issues of faith need to be questioned or else people will walk blindly into something that might turn out to be a religious cult or even

worse. So I'm hard pressed to see why the prickliness; sure you might feel offended if some one commits what in your

own estimation might be sacrilege but to the person inquiring is just plain curiousity.





still @ neoteny

as for our nigerian endless wahala in the context faith religion mostly it is the fault of severely miseducated islamist clerics and a ready bunch of illiterate, neglected street urchins who have none of the driving goals of material and intellectual acquisition that compel the rest of us to value life; and hence they play into the hands of the fiery uneducated clerics.


I would disagree with you on that point. While trying to gather what I felt should be general knowledge about

Islam, my enquiries were met with great hostility from people who should know better- intellectuals; people who are

supposedly exposed to the finer things in life, Like I mentioned earlier, religious issues are very emotive and nobody ever wins

argument. However, I still feel that the muslims or those who are pro-muslims are still missing the point, which is simply- when a

question is asked of Islam, why is there not a straightforward answer without all the vitrolics
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 11:54pm On Aug 19, 2006
Neoteny:

you narrow minded hate-fueled pagans can go on forever insulting us but all you'll ever succeed in doing is emboldening us to kill the whole lot of you fuckers. stupid-ass religion having three gods and a god who has sunk so low he has to impregnate some mortal chick just to get a lunatic "son" self-styling himself as a god. and his papa was so twisted he made him suffer intensely to save a "generation of vipers". mess that bullshit, your jesus was a fucking cack, a lying, blasphemous fake, an imposter and scam artist who played on illiterate idiots. son of god my ass, he was just a sore loser drunk on some shit so mess your jesus, mess that rag you call bible and mess all you losers. we going to kill every last one of you. i dare any of you fuckers to publicly make the statements you are making here and see if you'll last 24 hours. yes we are bad and violent but we are just killing scum and maggots and we wont stop. and your fucking jesus aint no son of god and the loser aint coming back. my own jesus was a mortal and was a prophet of allah, not your version because you morons pereverted everything god said just to create an immoral society. so mess you all.

I had deep respect for you coming from the fiction thread but all that is now vanished in a flash of vapour. Like babyosisi said, it did not take too long for the real muslim spirit to come out. on one hand olajia and other hypocrites are talking up islam as a religion of peace, you on the other hand just confirmed it is not by promising to kill us. Now you have just let us into the mindset of a terrorist, he is not bothered by his conscience for killing 3000 innocent civilians, rather he sees them as no more than scum, vermin, apes and infidels! How terribly sad it is that a mind can be so twisted with hate and murder!

You have no Jesus, Islam was born centuries after the Jesus you claim and the prophets you so desperately want to claim lived! How can Jesus be a prophet of Islam when Islam was not even in existence centuries after he ascended to heaven?
All your hullaballoo about non-existent prophets are all mohammed's lame twistiing of christian tales to suit his own evil agenda!
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 11:56pm On Aug 19, 2006
Mohamed and the quran mentions the so-called "prophets" all the time, funny how not even one of them nor the bible refers to one certain murderer called mohammed except to predict the coming of false teachers
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Bhola(f): 11:57pm On Aug 19, 2006
Pray tell, Neoteny, that you was joking? make i speak small Akata English cheesy. You did not mean all you typed, right?

I thot as much.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 12:06am On Aug 20, 2006
That's the kind of warped mind, foggy with delusion and half-truths going around murdering innocent people.
All the talk of Jesus being a prophet in Islam is one of those asinine statements that has no iota of truth.
Tha last book of New Testament was completed about 700 years before that morally depraved murderer appeared on the scene and these ignoramuses talk of the bible being changed,based on his claims.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by lordimpaq(m): 8:53am On Aug 20, 2006
oh no, another osama "neoteny" laden, shame,

and they say islam is a religion of peace, shame

while honest muslims try to justify their faith by defending that islam is a religion of peace, one guy from the 3rd mile from hell says he's gonna kill all pagans,

so it poses the question, Is Islam a Religion of peace?

if a christian had made such statements about islam hell would let loose,

thank God for Christianity, we are so cool headed, and loving and we still stand and we shall not be moved,
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by goodbobo: 11:43am On Aug 20, 2006
Please let all christians in the forum be very careful . Dont let ur identity be so known . They can actually come for you . They can kill .

You know the lord Jesus Christ say we should love our enemies .He said forgive 70 times 7 times , which means in all cases , u must forgive , which means there is about nothing anyone of any race , of any tribe , of any religion do to you , U must forgive .
This implies we can killl .

But for them their religions says they should kill . Their masters ( Mohammed ) killed .

Please lets be careful . But any way , the Lord God is our strenght . They are is weapon of the enemies that fashioned against that will prosper .

And for all the innocent muslims in the forum , I am sure ur mind is touched . They truth is too clear . All the pro Islam in the forum can not just point out just one reason to be a muslim . One of them clain u cant understand Islam if u are not a muslim .
What a statement , what cant u understand in a religion that says u can go ahead a killl . I really pity that guy .
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by goodbobo: 11:45am On Aug 20, 2006
Sorry , a little correction ,

I wanted to say , this implies u can NOT kill , as christian ( Under no condition )
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by lordimpaq(m): 12:08pm On Aug 20, 2006
@good bobo

how touching, undecidedthat is far from touching
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by goodbobo: 12:11pm On Aug 20, 2006
My people let me tell u one major truth i have conlcuded .

The good muslims are the one shying away from the what their Quatan says  . They are the ones not really following the teaching of Muhammed ( kill Jews , kill infidels) . Such people wont point out those fact we are made known in the quran through this forum . they try as much to hide it . Those are our muslim friends that we mingle with every day , that some christians marry . that we talk to freely and sometimes do business with . Those are the muslims that are not really following their Quran to the letters .

The real muslims ( bad ones) are the one following Mohammed to the letter . they are the ones killing people up and down because their holy book say so .

Real christians follow Jesus christ to the letter . Look at Jesus , even the people killing him , he forgave them all and Pray thar  God should forgive them all for they dont know what they are doing . What a good saviour .

I am sure PEACE is not in any way related to the teaching of ISLAM . how can war be peace . how can violence against other people of other faith be PEACE .  
this is not a matter of one understanding another persons religion or not . PEACE IS total tranquility (simple ENGLISH ) how can u kill some people and u call that tranquility .

what is the there to understand ??
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by lordimpaq(m): 12:23pm On Aug 20, 2006
@goodbobo

bros, cool down, i can understand your rage, but it doesn't help,


and you cannot make such conclusions, i mean the real muslims and fake muslims statement, please justify
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by mukina2: 5:27pm On Aug 20, 2006
*ma na ta kha*
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Neoteny(m): 10:45pm On Aug 20, 2006
interesting the shock i registered after my insults. of course i did not mean it, but you can see the reaction and that indignation is precisely what we muslims feel when certain people in this otherwise interesting forum show little respect for the sensitivities of others. i was banned from this forum for jokingly calling someone a loser and now here we have a name-calling spree that denigrates islam as well as christianity and yet our admin is doing absolutely nothing to moderate.
if you feel hurt and anger at me for calling jesus names, why should we not feel the same measure of hurt when you insult our prophet?
cant you ask your questions without the mockery? are we supposed to fold our hands and keep mute?
we can go on doing this slug-fest forever but it will serve no purpose other than to erode the relationships built here in this forum. already davidylan is saying he has lost all respects he had for me; if u had any respect for me or any other muslims in this forum you wouldnt have resorted to such utter insensititvity. at the same time i hope you have lost any respects you ever had for the like of babyosisi, unless if u share the same narrow mindset.

@enugu
you can disagree all you want and i'll say it is your prerogative, but im not obliged to answer your questions because it has no profit for me; it will not dilute your extreme views of us, so to dissemble is to waste my time. seek your answers wherever you deem fit and keep those views that best serve your purpose.

so bend over here it comes:

your jesus was as immoral as the worst of them; he was a stark raving lunatic fornicating with mary magdalene which isnt surprising given his mother was a LovePeddler herself.any surprise his own family wanted to restrain him? frankly i'd rather have a prophet who married than one who fornicates with a follower. he was a drunken lying scum who claimed a divinity by shamefacedly calling himself the son of god. son of god! and yet on the cross he was crying "god, why have you forsaken me?" WHAT A WIMP.and his so called papa, what kind of almighty papa designs a drama in which his son suffers indignity and death? man your jesus was a fuckkin slowpoke who just dont get it.

we can do this all life long. but as i said it serves no purpose. bring on the insults and lets bleed cause you people made a war out of this.

@mukina

im sorry if i disappoint you given that i swore not to lose my head, but this really is too much and if they want a name-calling contest then its fair game. they have already been told by their gay bishops (pity the choir boys, must hurt to sit down) to hate us, and hate us they do. up there someone even called my tribe "baboons", so do you see reason in all this? do you see a mature purpose besides hate? is anyone here, myself included, being constructive or sensitive? theres no respect here so might as well join them in their silly game. i dont relish doing this but my hurt and anger has to vent somehow and this is the "how" i chose.

here's an interesting read for you: "What Jesus Meant", and "Papal Deceit: Structures of Deceit" both by Gary Wills.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 10:53pm On Aug 20, 2006
dunno no more
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 10:57pm On Aug 20, 2006
@ neoteny

if you feel hurt and anger at me for calling jesus names, why should we not feel the same measure of hurt when you insult our prophet?

Capital error! The "anger and hurt" shown on the forum was NOT for calling Jesus Christ names! The reaction was basically at your vile statements and threats to kill the "vermin and scumbags"!

No christian would give two figs if you spent the rest of your life calling Jesus countless blasphemous names, it is not our duty to be angry or hurt, rather it is our duty to pray for you because we know what awaits people like you on the last day. Unlike Mohammed and one certain Allah who constantly need the support of their slaves to feel "angry and hurt" on their behalf, Jesus can fight His battles Himself!
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by domon(m): 3:48am On Aug 21, 2006
I have been reading all these interesting posts on Muslims. I will like to take yall back to the very beginning. First, how did Islam and Christianity spread throughtout the world?, both of these religions were spread by deceits and brutality. The Christians came to Africa as missionaries, then laid the ground work and helped their Christian brothers to commandeer our resources and make us slaves, as the sayings goes they told us to look to the Heavens and before we looked back down all our resources were gone. This same pattern was repeated everywhere the Christians went and a good example was the CONQUISTADORS in central America, their mandate was to convert the the local people of the Americas to Christianity with any means possible and in the process decimated a whole race of God created human beings. Islam did exactly the same thing, in East Africa they took us as slaves and by share brutality converted us to Islam in all part of Africa particularly in the Sahel region, same things was repeated in Asia and Eurasia. In my humble view NON of these two religions have any Godly right to call the other one barbaric or violent, the only difference is that Christianity MAY have PROGRESSED to the modern times, while Islam is still operating from time long gone. And finally i will want yall to know that there is only one GOD the creator of you and me, worship that GOD in which ever way you can and after that nothing else is important.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by superman(m): 7:08am On Aug 21, 2006
and has that explain why the malams in the norths bucther the igbos with their suya blade as soon as they walked out of the mosque!

there is a programme currently going on on BBC national television in london which i can tell completely refute anything about jesus for real! that will definately upset any so called christian, yes no doubt. it even went as far to say there is no prove that jesus raise from the death by alluding to the corpse might have been taken away from the tumb by the jews.

now mr allah i guess zamfara state governor shuold have been calling for some head by now! hey murder!!!! picture the difference pleaseeeeeeeeeee ! tolerance must rain in that baboon north ! ABOKI hope u listening
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by dayokanu(m): 10:50am On Aug 21, 2006
Hi everyone
I can understand Neotenys concern he is botherd about why Jesus said love your enemy while M killed his enemy, Jesus prayed for people persecuting him while M killed them,How Jesus resisted the pedophilic urge to sleep with 9 year old while M can not even wait for them to be weaned before he starts shagging them, why Jesus said love your wife while M recommended 'LIGHT' beating for them.

He is not concerned about the alarming level of illiteracy and ignorance in Moslem dominated areas of Nigeria go to the North and see for yourselves

Imagine someone comes like 560 years after Jesus and claims he received a book from God same in content as the Bible written 560years earlier thank God there was no coppyright law then else he would have been charged for piracy like Alaba boys
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by dayokanu(m): 11:11am On Aug 21, 2006
At least Neoteny is educated why doesnt he and other clerics find a way of educating their people instead of teaching them how to kill others compare the number of christian run Nursery, Primary,Secondary and Universities to their moslem counterpart
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 1:13pm On Aug 21, 2006
@ Superman.Your contribution from the 'expert documentors from the BBC is welcome.
But I can assure you no christian conversant with the basis of his faith would be upset or surprised.
You know why? because it is nothing new.
I would urge to read this bit:
Now the next day,that followed the day of the preparation,the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,Saying,Sir,we remember that the deceiver said,while he was yet alive,After three days I will rise again.
Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day,lest his disciples come by night,and steal him away,and say unto the people,He is risen from the dead:so the last error shall be worse than the first.
Pilate said unto them,ye have a watch:go your way,make it as sure as ye can.
So they went,and made the sepulchre sure,sealing the stone,and setting a watch.

And, behold,there was a great earthquake:for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven,and rolled back the stone from the door,and sat upon it.His countenance was like lightning,and his raiment white as snow:And for fear of him the keepers did shake,and became as dead men.
And the angel answered and said unto the women,Fear not ye:for I know that ye seek Jesus,which was crucified.
He is not here:for he is risen,as he said.Come,see the place where the Lord lay.

Now when they were going,behold,some of the watch came into the city,and shewed unto the chief priests,all the things that were done.
And when they were assembled with the elders,and had taken counsel,they gave large money unto the soldiers,Saying,Say ye,His disciples came by night,and stole him away while we slept.And if this come to the governor's ear,we will persuadehim,and secure you.So they took the money,and did as they were taught:and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

@ Superman,I hope you were patient to read till the end.This passage is from a book written few years after the incident happened, about 2000 years ago.Matthew 27:62-end;28:2-6,11-15.

Now this is what the whole of christian faith is founded upon.The miraculous events surrounding the event so described which were well documented by the eye witnesses.

I urge you to get acquainted a bit with the classical history of the ancient world,live under the Roman civilization,the discipline of their soldiers and come back and tell me whether it was possible for a group of frightened,confused disciples to overpower the Roman soldiers,roll away the stone and steal the body of Christ.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 1:59pm On Aug 21, 2006
@domon.
You contribution is also quite welcome.
I sympathize with your point of view,but it is half-truth.
The book of Acts of the Apostles best describe the origin and the spread of christianity a few years after the resurrection of Christ.You can also read other classical, secular authors of the antiquity for their views.(e.g Josephus who was a Jew but became a Roman citizen,he wasn't a christian.Tacitus is another,there are others).
You would come to the understanding that the earliest followers of Christ didn't bear arm or spread Christianity by deceit like you claimed,but through evangelization under very difficult circumstances under the Roman emperors like Nero and countless of them gave their lives for it.
It would interest you that of the original 12 disciples of Christ,only the youngest of them,John who wrote the book of Revelation died naturally after he miraculously survived all attempts to kill him.(It was his youthful, 'girlish' looks, captured by Leornado da Vinci in the Last Supper that, provided the basis of Dan Brown's work of fiction,as he transformed him to Mary Magdalene).

Now Constatane made  christianity a state religion,and from then on,the church fell into the Dark Ages of largely Ignoble activities.This serves as the basis for all the criminal activities committed by the Europeans especially the Roman Catholic church using God's name until Reformation.

There is no justification for all the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic Church and that is why Pope John Paul was courageous enough to apologise for these crimes IN 2000.

On the contrary, Islam is different,the founder of the religion, if you're patient enough to read the Koran,the Hadiths(also consisered a holy book) and also other ISLAMIC sources,the founder is shown with his followers to raid merchant caravans,attacked Jewish and other communities,stole their wealth,kill their men and approved his followers taking their wives and daughters as sex slaves and told them any of them that die in the course of Jihad would be rewarded with full-breasted virgins and wine in Paradise.And he led them by example.
He himself was shown to be involved with at least 22 women,the youngest of them 9 years.

Summary:When a christian commits a crime in God's name,he can't find a single verse in the New Testament justifying his actions,whereas a Muslim can point to the example of Muhammad and justify his actions by several passages of Koran and the Hadith.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by firdaus4us: 2:30pm On Aug 21, 2006
[b]@4malik

What can u say about the following that occur in bible also?

Do you know that Humanists also reject the Bible because it approves of outrageous cruelty and injustice. In civilized legal systems, a fundamental principle is that the suffering of the innocent is the essence of injustice. Yet the Bible teaches that God repeatedly violated this moral precept by harming innocent people.

Cruelty in Basic Christian Teachings

Instances of cruel and unjust behavior by the biblical God are seen in the most basic Christian doctrines. Some of God’s acts that harmed the innocent are as follows.
He damned the whole human race and cursed the entire creation because of the acts of two people (Genesis 3:16-23; Romans 5:18); he drowned pregnant women and innocent children and animals at the time of the Flood (Genesis 7:20-23); he tormented the Egyptians and their animals with hail and disease because pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt (Exodus 9:8-11,25); and he killed Egyptian babies at the time of the Passover (Exodus 12:29-30).

After the Exodus he ordered the Israelites to exterminate the men, women, and children of seven nations and steal their land (Deuteronomy 7:1-2); he killed King David’s baby because of David’s adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18); he required the torture and murder of his own son (e.g., Romans 3:24-25); and he promised to send non-Christians to eternal torture (e.g., Revelation 21:cool.

More Slaughters Ordered by the Lord

Besides the unfairness and heartlessness contained in many well-known Christian teachings, the Bible has other violent tales that are opposed to civilized standards of morality. Among the most shocking Bible passages are those that portray God as ordering or approving the extermination of various people, including children and the elderly. Here are examples:
· At I Samuel 15:3, the prophet Samuel gives King Saul this commandment from the Lord: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
· Ezekiel 9:4-7 has this harrowing account: "And the Lord said unto him, Go through . . . the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark. . . ."
· Hosea 13:16 describes a punishment from the Lord: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
· Deuteronomy 32:23-25 says that after the Israelites incited God's jealousy by worshiping other gods, he vowed: "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."
· In Numbers chapter 31, the Lord approves of these instructions that Moses gave to the Israelite soldiers about how to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
· Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from God: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children."
These verses expose the biblical God as having the morals of a sociopathic mass murderer.

Examples of God’s Other Cruel Methods

The God of the Bible displayed his sadistic tendencies by employing a variety of other means to torment and kill people.
He caused the earth to open and swallow entire families (Numbers 16:37-32); he used fire to devour people (e.g., Leviticus 10:1-2; Numbers 11:1-2); and he punished the Israelites with wars, famines, and pestilences (e.g., Ezekiel 5:11-17).
He sent wild animals such as bears (II Kings 2:23-24), lions (II Kings 17:24-25), and serpents (Numbers 21:6) to attack people; he sanctioned slavery (e.g., Leviticus 25:44-46); he ordered religious persecution (e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16); and he caused cannibalism (Jeremiah 19:9).

Disproportionate Punishments by the Lord

Obviously, to punish people who are completely innocent, as seen in the preceding Bible verses, constitutes punishment that is horribly disproportionate to the moral culpability of the recipients. And there are other instances where the biblical God's punishments are shockingly harsh compared to the acts committed.

For example, the Old Testament says the Lord prescribed execution for the "crimes" of working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing one’s parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on one’s wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

In the New Testament, God became far worse in regard to imposing excessively severe punishments. It would be hard to imagine anything more cruel and disproportionate than punishing people with eternal torture for mere disbelief that Jesus was the son of God.
The inability to believe that proposition harms no one, and it has been disbelieved by some of the greatest benefactors of humanity. Nonetheless, God promises to punish them and all other nonbelievers with the most horrible pain conceivable.

God’s Violence Incites Human Violence

A serious problem with the violence and injustice in the Bible is that, all too often, the teachings and example of the biblical God have incited cruel acts by his followers.
Many of them reasoned that since God, who is considered just and loving, committed or approved of the most brutal acts, good Christians need not have qualms about behaving likewise. Such logic led the American patriot Thomas Paine to say, "The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."[ Ingersoll, Robert G., "Vindication of Thomas Paine," The Works of Ingersoll, Vol. V (New York: Dresden, 1901), p. 483.]

Joseph McCabe’s treatise The History of Torture illustrates the reasoning process. McCabe reports that during the Middle Ages, there was more torture used in Christian Europe than in any society in history.[ McCabe, Joseph, The History of Torture (Austin: American Atheist Press, Reprinted 1982), pp. 12, 23.]

The main cause of this cruelty was the Christian doctrine of eternal punishment. McCabe explains: "If, it was natural to reason, God punishes men with eternal torment, it is surely lawful for men to use doses of it in a good cause."[ McCabe, pp. 20, 21]
Other historical examples of violent and unjust acts supported by biblical teachings include: the Inquisition; the Crusades; the burning of witches; religious wars; pogroms against Jews; persecution of homosexuals; forceful conversions of heathens; slavery; beatings of children; brutal treatment of the mentally ill; suppression of scientists; and whippings, mutilations, and violent executions of persons convicted of crimes. Those acts were a regular part of the Christian world for centuries.

Thomas Paine was entirely justified in saying about the Bible: "It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel."[ Paine, Thomas, The Age of Reason (New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1974), p. 60.][/b]
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 2:32pm On Aug 21, 2006
@neoteny.
You missed it!
Nobody is surprised by your immature tantrums and vile utterances against the person of Christ,I WOULD HAVE BEEN TERRIBLY HURT IF YOU HAVE ANY SHRED OF EVIDENCE FOR YOUR ASSERTIONS.Because my faith in Him would now be in Jeopardy.

Here this: Now when the centurion,and they that were with him,watching Jesus,saw the earthquake,and those things that were done,they feared greatly,saying,Truly this was the Son of God.(Matt 27:54)

This statement came out from a Roman executioner,from a book written by those who were alive and witnessed the event 2000 years ago.

What is the basis of your alleged Christ's affair with Mary Magdalene? Da Vinci Code, a work of fiction based on an artist's painting,written 2005 years after the event.

What do we have as evidence for  Muhammad's extravagant, sexually immoral lifestyle?
The testimony of the Koran,the Hadiths and the other 2 or 3 ISLAMIC writings showing the origin of Islam.
How Muhammad slept with scores of women,telling them to marry only 4,stooping low to sleep with a girl of 9,committing war crimes in act of unpardonable genocide,keeping women captured in war as 'booty' for sexual gratification.

Now there is no hiding place for Islam,as the uncomfortable truth suppressed by the Mullahs for centuries travel round the world,every body would now know it for what it is:a gigantic fraud,a mish-mash of Arab paganism and perverted Bible tales, that has enslaved millions of people for centuries.

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Is The Mark On Some People's Forehead A Sign Of Iman? / Dress Code Of Muslim Women and Men / What Do The Scholars Say?

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