ODEKU: WAKE UP, NOBODY IS HERE CALLING IBB A SAINT, MY POINT IS IBB IS NOT THE ONLY RAT IN THE BUSH. WE HAVE SEVERAL RATS, WE HAVE A GREEN ONE, A BLACK ONE, A WHITE ONE, A BROWN ONE AND SO ON, I REFUSE TO ALLOW THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION TO BRAINWASH ME JUST LIKE THE REST. I WILL NOT GIVE ANY CREDIT TO EFCC TILL EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE FOLKS, INCLUDING OBJ ARE PROBED, INVESTIGATED AND EXPOSED THE SAME WAY IBB IS BEING TREATED.
THAT IS THE ONLY WAY NIGERIA AS A COUNTRY COULD MOVE FORWARD EFFECTIVELY.

SO, CHILL OUT AND STOP ASKING FOR MY AGE, YOU COULD BE 40 YEARS OLD AND STILL BE A LOOSER OR A DOLT.

I'M SCHEDULED TO BE IN DC AREA NEXT WEEK, IF YOU TRULY WANT TO KNOW MY AGE HOLLA AT ME.

Big B1: Since you have taken in personally to defend Babangida indirectlly, You must also be able to explain to us as to wether you think he stole money or not.I know all Nigerian leaders we've had since independent are not clean.But, this issue and topic is mainlly about Babangida. And this is what i have done-gave my own opinion.
Just because other African leaders children are spoiled with their nation's money doesn't mean we have to accept that in Nigeria.All iam saying is that ,you cannot steal the wealth of the people to benefit few.If you want to justify the corruption norms of Babangida on the single fact that other leaders have done that then,that is not a good point.
Hating? Hell no!For someone to express his or her opinion is not hating-It's called freedom of expression.Babangida was also a tyrant, a brutal dictator that has no value for human life.May be you can explain to me why he wants to be president again-He doesn't believe in democratic values.What goal or goals is he trying to attain? To ruined Nigeria like he did before?To throw us in another political hurricane like he did before?Tell me what goals he's trying to attain.
I will advice you to grind your kola in your coffee,maybe that will help you to have a 20/20 vission of the issues.May be and just may be,you will understand why most of us are tired of few arrogant brain drained idiots stealing our wealth.Pls., advice the blood sucking general that we don't want him in Nigerian politics again!

IMAGEMAN: OK, let's say IBB is banned from contesting for the presidential election, what is next?

You guys continue to miss my point, Chasing and exposing IBB alone will not solve our problem, Nigeria will never never move forward by just prohibiting IBB's ambition. All these folks have to be exposed and banned all together. Create a new state, new politicians with fresh new rules and strategy.
Imaging, 99% of current governors are corrupt and more than 40% of the same group are contesting to be our next president, And all we are focusing on is IBB, what you guys are missing is the fact that new developed invisible IBB is out there and there is possibility that this invisible guy will be elected and the history will be repeated. Instead of chasing IBB around like the only hooker in town, we need to generalize our knowledge and ideas to get rid of all these old fetid for ever.

Nigerians love quick fix, short cut and figureheading, I refuse to be part of this group, If you want to repair a problem let's get it done effectively, Don't allow this current administration to paint one fruit as being bad and paint the other as perfect. All these folks are bad or dirty or what ever you wish to call it, let's kill the whole problem not just part of it.
Think of this corruption issue as being a cancer and Nigeria as a country is the entity.

This is the reason why I refuse to participate in bashing IBB, You only think IBB is the worst beast out there because he's the only one being exposed vigorously.
Just like the old folks say " you don't miss what you don't know"


And in regard to privileges of the president's kids, I rather don't touch that, it is reality and it will be forever.

Let develop new rules and regulation for the next administration or big wig government officials:
1. All the kids of all government officials should attend public Nigerian schools, You guys will see how quick the Nigerian public schools will be reformed.

2. All government officials and their families must not be flown to abroad for medical reasons, they must utilize Nigerian medical system at all time, You guys will see how quick the Nigerian medical system improves.

3. No foreign bank account for all officials, You guys will see how quick the numbers of political candidates will start to drop.

4. Any guilty corrupt officials will be executed in his or her home town, You guys will see how things will change for ever.

5. And so on

I admire long term resolution not just short term, this is why I will continue to reject IBB bashing till every corrupt officials including OBJ are probed and exposed, And new rules and regulations are implemented

fine nigerian heard you loud and clear but emm what happen if things turn out that IBB is so lethal than u think! i mention again lethal not deadly can u picture that! and u can always smell that going by the respite IBB is commanding in nigeria! i can tell you people look up to IBB (like u love to quote well 99% as well) as untouchable right! if what happen to the riches man in Russia can take place in nigeria i can certainly tell u a lot of snake in the bush would rattle for real. no doubt! so the effort to destory IBB is a good development at the age of democrazy in NIgeria.

so superman think one shuoldnt be narrow-minded at this moment! like nigerians love to say rome was not built in a day ! hope u with me. so president obasanjo u once again have a big chance to squeeze all the shit out in IBB bloody smelly ass for good! superman got your back! effc chairman oya lets go! this just the begining of the begining.


so your point is not that logical as u love to sound! think again well not 100% justified. therefore this is part of long term resolution bro, dnt u think

Imagine IBB wife squandering 8.95 Million for overseas trip. HELL NO IBB will never rule us again. And mr BIGBI, you can never reason with any logical thinker you were been carried around on your mothers back sucking on candy when IBB was distroying Nigeria, so you will never understand


Former Military President, Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, frittered away $12bn of the country’s revenue through special accounts, which he ran as the sole approving authority.

Skip to next paragraph

Photo file
Ibrahim Babangida - his regime introduced SAP.

This was contained in the report of the Panel on the Reorganisation and Reforms of the Central Bank of Nigeria.

The panel headed by the late renowned economist, Dr. Pius Okigbo, painted in graphic details how Babangida operated “a second but undisclosed budget” with the then CBN governor, the late Alhaji Abdulkadir Ahmed.

The report, which was submitted to the administration of the late Gen. Sani Abacha on August 29, 1994, had been a subject of interest to Nigerians, who have been itching for the detailed report of the government’s White Paper on it.

According to the report, the Babangida regime operated dedication accounts outside of the budgetary provisions, which he ran without accounting to anybody.

It stated that the operations of these accounts were fraught with irregularities.

“The proceeds of the sale of the crude were not shown in the revenue side nor were the expenditures reflected in the expenditure side of the budget,” the report said.

The report traced the origin of the accounts to September 1988 when Babangida approved a proposal to dedicate 65,000 barrels of crude oil per day for certain priority projects, particularly the Ajaokuta Steel, the Itakpe Iron Mining and the Shiroro Hydroelectric projects.

It added that the quantity was increased to 105,000bpd in October 1989 to finance such projects as the LNG and the commitment to the Joint Venture Partners of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation.

In the early part of 1994, it was again raised to 150,000bpd.

The report disclosed that the “total receipts and payments in respect of the dedication accounts from inception in September 1988 to June 30, 1994 were $6.195bn and $6.109bn respectively, leaving a balance of $85.943m as at the end of the period.”

Other controversial special accounts allegedly opened by the then military regime, according to the report, included the NNPC Sales of Mining Account, the Stabilisation Account, the Signature Bonus Account, and the GHQ Special Fund Account.

While the $2.06bn accrued to the NNPC Sales of Mining Rights Account, through the sale of mining rights in the NNPC/ Shell Joint venture, $4.398bn accrued to the Stabilisation Account between October 1990 and June, 1994.

As the report explained, the Stabilisation Account was created in October 1990 to receive revenue from crude oil sales in excess of the budgeted provision during the Gulf War.

The aim, it added, was to effectively separate it from the Federation Account and to sterilise it pending instructions for further utilisation.

It reported that the bulk of the money was applied to settle obligations outstanding to contractors handling priority projects and in financing the debt buy-back operation.

The report further disclosed that in 1992 $1.21bn, representing the proceeds of debt held by the CBN was received back into the account, but the balance in that account as June 30, 1994 was $117.36m. There was no account of the disbursements from that account.

The report added that as the funds swelled, other revenue streams, including the proceeds from the sale of mining rights, stabilisation account, and signature bonus, were also squandered.

The Babangida regime, it said, also resorted to the financing of mundane projects like the purchase of television and video sets for the Presidency at the cost of $18.30m, documentary film on Nigeria, $2.92m, foreign trips by wife of the President, $8.95m, and medical clinic for Aso Rock, $27.25m, among others.

It said, “Neither the Dedication Account nor the Stabilisation Account was applied for the .purpose it was originally designed to serve.

“Thus, the Dedication Account was used for many non-priority projects and the Stabilisation Account was not, in practice, used to sterilise revenues in excess of projected earnings.

“Instead, after a short delay, the monies in the accounts were spent virtually as fast as they were accumulated.”

On the external sector of the economy, the report insisted that there was nothing to cheer about the various economic policies employed by the Babangida administration in the reviewed period.

“It noted that in spite of the various policy measures put in place since 1986 to reverse the deteriorating trend in the external sector of the economy, the results were unsatisfactory.

“The noticeable favourable performance in the balance of payments in the first year of the implementation of the Structural Adjustment Programme, 1986-1988, was artificial as some debt service claims against the country were postponed due to debt rescheduling.”

It argued that the improvement could have been sustained but for the usually high level of other external payments and expenditures from 1989 onwards, which wiped out the external reserves and put extreme pressures on the balance of payments.

It noted that the external sector performance deteriorated in 1992 as the overall balance of payments position, which was persistently in surplus during the previous three years, plunged into huge deficit of $3.8bn.

This, according to the report, reflected the large payments made in respect of scheduled amortisation, as well as the debt buy-back arrangement, which led to the repurchase of $3.4bn worth of the country’s external debt.

Other members of the panel were the incumbent Chairman, First Bank of Nigeria Plc, Alhaji Umaru Mutallab; the current Chairman of Diamond Bank, Mr. Paschal Dozie; Mr. Y. Sankey; and Mrs. B. Latinwo. Others were the current Secretary to the Government of the Federation, Chief Ufot Ekaette; Mr. O. Oyefodunrin; and Ida, who was the secretary.

Efforts to find out the present state of the various accounts listed in the report from the CBN met a brick wall.

The bank’s Head of Corporate Affairs, Mr. Festus Odoko, said in a telephone interview on Monday that he could not say much on the issue since the Federal Government had not released the report to the public.

When pressed further, the CBN spokesman who requested for a copy of the report, dismissed the claims that certain spurious accounts were managed by the CBN.

“I do not know anywhere in the world where CBN opens account for individuals. There are accounts for banks and government,” Odoko said.

In an interview with THISDAY on Sunday, on August 20, 2006, Babangida said he had anticipated the oil windfall as one of the major political issues against his presidential aspiration in 2007.

He, however, added that he was prepared to defend the management of the $12.4bn.

He said, “I prepared my mind. I knew what everybody will be talking about. Now, they have added Vatsa into the vocabulary of the atrocities committed by IBB.

“So, it’s Vatsa, the N12.4bn oil windfall they say I stole; Dele Giwa; June 12 and the institutionalisation of corruption. I hope Nigerians will believe (and I believe they will) when we eventually tell them the truth.

“I said for my eight years, I have never been so fortunate to get a barrel of crude oil above $30. I was that unfortunate to manage a situation where a barrel sold for $12, $10 per barrel during my regime. On one side, you had me who managed poverty, on the other side, you had others who are managing affluence.”

The Coordinator, International Press Centre, Lagos, Mr. Lanre Arogundade, on Monday said the failure by the government to make the report public and issue a White Paper on it raised a major question mark on the genuineness of its anti-corruption war.

Also, the Executive Director, Media Rights Agenda, Mr. Edaetan Ojo, said he was surprised by the government’s lack of commitment to get to the root of the case despite the amount of money involved and its anti-corruption stance.

They spoke on Monday in separate interviews with our correspondents.

While commending THE PUNCH for its efforts at putting the report in the public domain, Ojo said his organisation would take the issue up once it had the necessary tools.

Despite the fact that THE PUNCH had it on good authority that a copy of the report had been with Ida, past attempts to get it were unsuccessful.

On October 13, 2004, THE PUNCH wrote Ekaette, asking for the government’s intervention to obtain the report.

But the letter was not replied.

A reminder, signed by the Editor, THE PUNCH, Mr. Azubuike Ishiekwene, was sent to the SGF on October 27.

The SGF, whose office statutorily keeps all reports of panels or commissions of inquiry, sent a terse response on November 12, 2004.

In the response, signed by Dr. K.B. Kaigama on behalf of the SGF, the government said it would be willing to make the Okigbo Report available as soon as it could be found.

Still unrelenting, THE PUNCH, on April 11, 2005, wrote a letter to the chairman of the defunct National Political Reform Conference, Justice Niki Tobi, urging the conference to prevail on the government to release the reports of both the Okigbo Panel and the Human Rights Violations and Investigations Commission to the public.

The NPRC did not address the issues bordering on the Okigbo Report.

Having obtained a copy of the report, THE PUNCH on August 10, 2006, wrote another letter to the SGF to verify its authenticity and enclosed the 352-page report.

Extracts from the letter read, “You may recall, Sir, that on October 13 and 27, 2004, PUNCH wrote two separate letters to the SGF requesting for copies of the Okigbo panel report, which among other things, investigated how the military administration of General Ibrahim Babangida disbursed the $12.4bn earned from the sale of oil during the first Gulf War in 1990/1991.

“PUNCH was also encouraged to write because the present administration had indicated quite clearly, both in public comments by President Olusegun Obasanjo and specifically in a reply to our enquiries in a letter received on Friday, November 12, 2004 (signed by Dr. K.B. Kaigama on behalf of the SGF), that it would be willing to make the Okigbo report available as soon as it can be found.

“In fact, we recall that as part of the government’s effort to address our request, Kaigama said in his letter that the SGF’s office had written one Alhaji Ibrahim Ida, a member of the panel, for a copy of the report and that his response was being awaited.

“After years of diligent search, PUNCH has obtained what could be a genuine copy of the Okigbo report. We would be most obliged if the SGF, who on page VI of the report is indicated as one of the eight members of the panel, and a signatory, could assist PUNCH in verifying the authenticity of this volume in the overriding interest of the public.”

As at press time on Monday, there was no response or acknowledgement from the government.

SUPERMAN on the wheel chair: You totally missed my point, but it's all good. We all have right to believe what ever we want.

Nigerians love quick fix, short cut and figureheading. Let's look at long term resolution, life after IBB and effective strategy to rectify corruption in Nigeria for ever.

: Big B1 u see i show love to my brothers but then again hate it when they are partially talking in their dreams!

Big B1:Your point is well understood  but,i still don't agree with you that Ibb should not be bashed,because  he is not the only thief that has stolen from  Nigerian people-that does'nt justify your crusade to stop Ibb bashing.He bashed Nigerian people for eight years ,so he deserved to be bashed.You can start another thread on other corrupt leaders with all the facts you have and that is your right to do.But stop telling people not to bash Ibb.
        I know you sincerelly want changes of goodness in Nigeria but your indirect defence of Ibb is maken you look like a great admirer of the general.If you like the man just go ahead and say it.Do not hide under the banner that he's not the only corrupt leader that we've had in the history of our nation.And to be factual,Ibb is been bashed by his past deeds and not as a witch hunt.
    True,to barn Ibb from politics will not end corruption in Nigeria,and iam not advocating for that.However,he must be made to answer to all his deeds while in office.It's not only fair to us to know,but  we must demand it from him to explain.I just don't want a man of Ibb character ruling Nigeria again.Enough is enough!!!!

IBB and BIGBi are not the only corrupt leader in Nigeria but they are the most stupid that think we as Nigeria forget about his evil deeds and let hem come and maneuver us again, we might as well give Vatsa and Anini Lawrence another chance

ODEKU: you lost me. What are you talking about

i no get ur yarns

Big B1 what I am saying is you are disillusion when it comes to IBB, as much as I hate all your comment on this issue i still have to respect you for standing your grounds, but all jokes aside, any Nigerian that lived in Nigeria between 79 to 93 when Shagari and Buhari and IBB rules will clearly see when and where it all went down, not until Ibb came that we lost touch. The problem in this "redemption theory" is that in the democratic nations of the world people choose political leaders on the basis of their pedigree. Not many nations of the world have had the opportunity to know the leadership history of an aspiring democratic leader in the manner as we do of General Ibrahim Babangida in Nigeria, not least because he had before been where he now wants to be. Assuming Babangida's leadership antecedents do not recommend him for a return to the apex of political governance, must we still put him there in the religious belief that he would change from his old ways? Would the Americans, for instance, have given disgraced Richard Nixon a second chance to be president in the assumption that bitter lessons had made him a wiser and better person?

ODEKU: Excellent point, I truly admire your "disgraced Richard Nixon" example. But people in USA view leadership role differently from how we do in Nigeria, eg: 99% of leaders in USA are not corrupt, hence it is easy for them to make judgment in regards to Nixon's case.
As per your point, OBJ shouldn't have been given second chance either.
And how come OBJ choose to probe and expose IBB as soon as his bid for 3rd term failed? How come Nigerians are not questioning the obvious motive behind OBJ's agenda?

I refuse to see things the way most Nigerians do until we come to a conclusion that the current political drama in Nigeria is a rat race, is a sinner implicating another sinner and everybody including the president must pay.

IBB practically placed OBJ in his current position, IBB spent million of dollars during this process, how come OBJ didn't stop him at that period?

I refuse to support OBJ's vindictive childish behavior, I don't think he's current action is sincerely for the benefit of the Nigerian people, it is a personal objective and it is sad and careless to get innocent Nigerian people involved.
Finally, I do not think OBJ's administration is in a position to probe IBB. You wait and see OBJ will soon be exposed and you guys will quickly recognize that IBB's case is not the only significant case,

Well I am waiting and he had less than 8 months to go, so we shall see

ODEKU: Becareful, this is Nigeria, there is still 95% possibility that IBB will be relocating to ASO ROCK in 2007.

I think it will be cool, I know for a fact that IBB is too smart to f u ck up for the second time.

too smart! man ass is on fireeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! keep ur crocodile eye open oooo! u go see and after that abacha go wake up from death of cause he is too smart to gone silience for a while now! hey dnt yall think.

I have carefully read all the posts on IBB stuff, People say IBB stole money, we have been saying it for years, we fought it despotic rule during our days as students, but I am not sure OBJ is better, we need to be objective in all our submissions on this issue, the present leaders have stolen more money than any other regime in the history of this country, we can point to so many instances, this singular reason makes mockery of JAIL IBB SYNDRONE that we are into now. Obasanjo and his people has stolen public funds more than any other, remember Abacha who was jailing people for corruption who knew then that he was corruption personified, anyway we will know better when OBJ leaves, it is more on vegeance mission that patrotic one.

steve

It is funny when u read post that says "we will stop him' how many of the elites are voting? how many of us will be at the selection venue? I doubt if OBJ has the courage to probe Atiku not to talk of IBB? lets wait and see. Have you forgotten about Olumuyiwas house in america? what of Gbenga Obasanjo's business, what of Presidential Library? Transcorp 200 million shres and Millenium tower to be built, some folks said thats an attempt to steal money. lets wait and see I hope the rulling class are not playing pranks on us.

steve

Steve or OMOFINEBOY: WOW, I truly do not know where to start, I've tried everything to wake these folks up, nothing seems to be working. They all sleep and face the same direction. They have no clue of what is really going on inside the closed door.

I truly appreciate your bright input.

Nobody is calling IBB a saint, but never never allow this current administration to brainwash you with their fake probagandan. They are dirty as a farm pig.

Just wait and lets see, reports has it that OBJ want Atiku out, very interesting thief dey catch thief.

ATIKU will be impeach and tried, wait and see, no immunity for the bastard fat neck

I guess some people in this country prefare 2 either praise d devil while in cesspit or while in caesar's palace. Little do they know they directly or indirectly fuel d inferno of fraud

Omofinboy and Big B1,
Thanks so much for the lecturing, i thought it is only my colleagues that have faded brain to realise that these people are playing with our intelligence.
You need to come to my office and see how blindly people argue about OBJ`S weapon of mass destruction over IBB and ATIKU.
I guess these men have beeen blindfold from seeing the evil OBJ, IBB and ATIKU on us

Guys please wake to reality

The only thing IBB has to offer is more Pain.
Those who praise IBB have never directly experienced his sting, thats why. U remeber Air Force Hercules C130 that crashed at Ejigbo in 1992.

Yes I Lost my Dad in that Crash. He was a brilliant God fearing Major. My current outlook and view of Life is as a direct influence of that Trauma.

My Life was never the same again. Back then I was a boy soldier at NMS. I wont blame the ignorant many whose judgements are solely based on what they read. Only few of us can empathize and actually know the pain in the hearts of women like Mrs MM Vatsa. Remember him. So a kind man. I remeber his Book Stinger the Scorpion- A collection of Children Stories written by Mamman Vatsa. I won it at a speech and prize giving day back then.

I never understood the title of that book until when I was older and was already posted to a unit at Lagos. I meditated (I do that all the time to ease the pains) I realized the Scorpoin he was Refering to was IBB.

Most of you will rubbish this but a few of us who know remember that even Vatsa's son wasnt spared @ NMS. He was withdrawn. Such a brilliant chap.
I almost dropped out after the C130 crash. It affected me . The only thing that saved us all was that most of us were ntural genuises.

I wont bother u but Ive been there. Some of Us have been there.

Ben Ekele{Remember Him? There can never be any pilot like him again}, Martin Luther{Spit Fire}, Chris Oche{Calculus}, Bityong{Can Any Airborne Equal U Again?},Vatsa{Lion Heart} & Daddy{Mumies Gold}. May your souls rest in peace till we meet to reunite again.

Ahua!!

Please visit this link to contribute to the ""Never Again"" cry. Lets ensure that Mediocrity Never Rises Again http://www.againstbabangida.com/

WAO interesting and vitalizing, BIGB1 I hope you see hoe your HERO IBB has destroyed innocent life's.

How can one man have all this money and he is a retired military personnel? where did he get all this money? he need to explain to us.

with evidence like this we havel punks like Big B1 still saying this man is the perfect fit?

What did we win in football in IBB's era?
This question shows you how connected Nigerians are with their game and their leaders.
We have not won anything since OBJ became president. I'm talking about men's football at International level. You may triffle or play down the issue but it speaks alot about the unity and state of hearts of the Nigerian people.

We cannot go on to show the link between football, national life and our leaders at this point but what is IBB's hidden agenda?

IBB should first like someone said, use some of our money that is still with him to close the gap between his teeth, e no fit am at all. Some also threatened Odeku saying IBB will come back so "be careful" as he put it. What that means is that we are going to see more political assasinations of ordinary people with opinions.

We must be careful of IBB and his people. I appeal to every well meaning Nigerian to stand up to this wickedness and oppose it. We have lost nearly all we have to OBJ, Abdulsalami, Abacha, IBB, Buhari and now IBB wants to take our lives or what more do we have left?

Go now and register to vote. Maurice Iwu should please revert back to the manual system and ensure that INEC is commited to a free and fair election.

IBB upon picking the PDP form claimed he wants to continue with OBJ's reforms. For crying out loud, what good have these reforms done us?
The biggest issue in this coming election is the economy, second to which is internal security and development. Reforms and anti-corruption are only last, We see clearly that OBJ and his lieutenant IBB (OBJ was IBB's commanding officer in Nigerian Army) have nothing but to sell this country and buy it with tax payers money else why would IBB continue with reforms?

This is my clarion call to all adult Nigerians,

Arise O compatriots, Nigeria's call obey! Come serve Niger land your fatherland, with your voters cards yes and with strength and faith. The labour of heroes past (our true founding fathers, Zik, Macaulay, & Enahoro) must never be in vain. To serve with heart and might this 1 nation of nations. Peace and unity.

Oh God of Creation, direct our noble cause stated above, guide our erring and wicked leaders right and help our youths (BigB1 and cohorts) the truth to know. In love & honesty to other Nigerians to grow and leading just and true. We will attain great even lofty heights and together, we shall build a nation where peace and justice reign.

This thread is long enough to make a big book on IBB.

The breaking news right now is that Western world kicks against the return of IBB to power in Nigeria.
I saw the headline first on http://www.nigeriantimesinternational.com and traced the link to
http://odili.net/news/source/2006/nov/12/550.html

well just heared about this topic, "IBB" the biggest looters, i quite agree with big 1 that those things he talked about as come to past, left to me the nigerian issues and troubles is beyond a personality, it began with britain and the kind of services the lord lugards' and their majesty rendered to us, they mis-directed Gowon and they encouraged Shagari, they didnt like Buhari and they got IBB to do the job only that he was smart to serve himself first before the royal crown unlike Shagari, corruption and greed destroyed ancient egypt as well as persia and rome and it shall always destroy the civilization and development of any nation that serves its purpose of self enrichment over common good.

BIGB1 do you recalled this post? was the media exaggerating or telling the truth about your father?