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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? (10657 Views)
Has God Ever Done Any Irrefutable Miracle For You Before? Come In And Share / If You Had Been The One Creating Things, Humans, Will You Had Given 'freewill' ? / What Has God Done For You? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by ayoku777(m): 8:21am On Mar 03, 2015 |
frank317: You meant unexplainable to you. Coz it is clear in the bible. John 6v64 -For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, AND WHO SHOULD BETRAY HIM. You see this scripture? Jesus knew from the very beginning that Judas would betray Him and become a son of perdition. Yet Jesus still called him and predestined him to sit with Him in the age to come together with the twelve. Matthew 19v28 -Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me; In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also (Judas inclusive) shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Judas was still among the twelve, the "ye also", when Jesus made this statement. Yet Judas still chose the way of perdition. So it may sound irrational to you, but it is a clear truth in scripture. God has given man both predestination and freewill. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 8:21am On Mar 03, 2015 |
These guys just showed that the old men that compiled the bible at Nicene are geniuses... Those guys did a terrible job |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by byteHead(m): 8:27am On Mar 03, 2015 |
frank317: I beleive God predestined humans but we chose to have freewill when Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 8:30am On Mar 03, 2015 |
byteHead: which means your God is not omniscient cus what he predestined failed when adam and eve ate the fruit |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by timmy2409(m): 8:49am On Mar 03, 2015 |
byteHead: *facepalm* WTF does that even mean? You guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot over and over again without flinching. I'm amazed, really How does one CHOOSE to have freewill without initially having it? Mehn you Christians on this thread are doing your religion a massive disservice 2 Likes |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 9:14am On Mar 03, 2015 |
timmy2409: hahahahahaha asin eeeehn i tire ooo |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 10:26am On Mar 03, 2015 |
johnydon22:The whole world was affected by the fall of Adam and were all deserving of hell. God in His grace decided to save some . |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 10:31am On Mar 03, 2015 |
An2elect2: plaetton: On the contrary, a very brilliant post. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 10:38am On Mar 03, 2015 |
5solas: So the whole world deserve hell because of what one man did? Adam sinned then he blames it on every human up till this 21st century.. Condemns them all to eternal torture because of what they dont even have any clue about... still bearing a grudge he had with adam and eve up till now.. He Knows he will throw them all in hell because of what one man did but creates them anyway... Decides to save only some selected few he chooses and willing to subject countless others to eternal torment in fire for something they have not a single clue about... And this is justice and goodness according to you? Uuuurrgh i can believe a human can utter or bore out such nonsense and still claim this God is good, just, merciful.. Your God is sick, sardistic, moronic, incompetent and evil... quote me on it anytime.. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by frank317: 11:20am On Mar 03, 2015 |
ayoku777: Of course it is clear to you that's why you have spent almost four pages trying to explain it, yet no one seem to understand you. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 11:25pm On Mar 03, 2015 |
ayoku777:First of all, must you tag the word , ''free'' to the ''will'' of man? What purpose does it serve? I ask because the context in which you use it suggests you are talking of the will of man. However ,if you must use it, you should define it so it is clear what you mean when you use it. Man of course has a will, but his will does not overrule that of God. Man's will must bow to God's. As everything is foreknown of God so is everything predestined. God does not only predestine the end of an event but the means to that end. We cannot do otherwise than God foreknew/predestined, but as Christians we must seek to be guided by His word, for only there do we see His revealed will. Whatever we do we act out God's purposes- hidden or revealed. No one however gets rewarded for fulfilling the secret will of God. Cite the scripture, please. Who said he was ordained to seat on thrones? People who believe like you do, that salvation can be lost, are so fond of making assumptions. You assume that from this verse, EX. 32:32 and Psalm 69:28 it is proved that ones name can be blotted out, this is not necessarily so and those verses do not say so, simple. In getting their meaning , you have to compare them with these: Php 4 This is an encouragement for believers to know that their faith is not in vain. Rev 13: 8 People whose names are written in the book will refuse to worship the beast. Why? Simply because they are chosen for salvation. Lk 10 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.What is worth rejoicing over? What is worth rejoicing over the facts that demons were subject to the disciples? Their names are written in Heaven! If it can be blotted out, then what is the point of Jesus? Context will always defeat false teachings/teachers. Some verses are difficult to explain in themselves, I prefer to be silent concerning those verses than risk gainsaying them. I have answered you to some measure at least. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by Horus(m): 11:33pm On Mar 03, 2015 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99dbSpfaPvU?list=PLZyra-wjThuOKzrOzP-RbmYTCkUiRN1p9 [size=15pt]Do We Have Free Will? (Paa Nabab Yaanuwn)[/size] |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 11:33pm On Mar 03, 2015 |
johnydon22:All men deserve damnation because apart from the sin of Adam and Eve, they have actual sins which can only be atoned for by the blood of Christ. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 7:24am On Mar 04, 2015 |
5solas: So you think everybody deserve damnation.. I need you to answer me this question with honesty without sentiment. Is it justice to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment? |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 8:47am On Mar 04, 2015 |
johnydon22:I am stating the position of the scriptures and I am sure the average believer will not have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with it. But to your question, how do we know what is just? What is the yardstick for that? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 8:54am On Mar 04, 2015 |
5solas: So from your own human empathy you cannot figure out what you find to be right or not.. ok let me rephrase the question. [size=20] Is 90years of sin worth 100million years of punishment(to cut it)[/size]?? |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by An2elect2(f): 9:57am On Mar 04, 2015 |
ayoku777: Your problem is that you don't understand how God saves people or how He works. The scripture you cited that says Jesus stands at the door knocking... doesn't not teach salvation mr. Where was salvation mentioned in that verse? People like you will never cite the appropriate scriptures when talking about salvation, eternal life because it doesn't go well with your "free will" god. "For BY GRACE ARE YOU SAVED THROUGH FAITH AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES. IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT OF WORKS SO THAT NO MAN WILL BOAST." Eph 2:8,9. "For the wages of sin is death; BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD." Rom 6:23. If you cannot see this, You are B-L-I-N-D !!! |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by ayoku777(m): 12:02pm On Mar 04, 2015 |
An2elect2: Funny and clever how you jumpsighted the scripture I quoted in Titus 2v11 that says; For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared UNTO ALL MEN, You jumpsigthed the verse and moved over to the ones you could twist and gainsay -and then called me blind. This verse is clearly talking about salvation, and it shows explicitly that the grace of God for salvation is UNTO ALL MEN, not for some or for a few. You have this twisted and scripturally unfounded opinion that man cannot reject God's grace and offer of salvation. That if God wants to save you, you have no choice but to be saved. Meaning anyone that is not saved is not on God's "To Save" list. Well you're absolutely wrong! John 1v11 -He (Jesus) came unto His own, and His own RECEIVED HIM NOT. And what did He bring? John 1v17 -For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jesus came unto His own, bringing grace and truth, and His own RECEIVED HIM NOT. Does this verse suggest to you that God's grace can never be rejected by man? That man has no freewill when grace shows up with the offer of salvation? Ofcourse not! It clearly shows otherwise; -That grace can be rejected. No one is saying you need to work to receive grace or to be saved. But clearly you have the freewill to accept or reject the offer of salvation. There is no work involved in receiving grace, but there is freewill involved in responding to the offer. Another verse that shows that God's offer of slavation and eternal life can be rejected by man. Acts 13v46 -Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, it was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing YE PUT IT FROM YOU, and JUDGE YOURSELVES unworthy of everlasting, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. You can put the gospel of Christ from you. You can judge yourself unworthy of eternal life. Not because you were not offered; but because you put it from you. These verses destroy your theory that man has no freewill in the face of God's offer of salvation. And now let me give you more verses that shows that ALL MEN are in God's "To Save" list. Please try not to jumpsight any this time. Mark 16v15 -And he said unto them, Go ye into ALL THE WORLD, and preach the gospel TO EVERY CREATURE. The gospel is God's message of grace and offer of salvation to man; and it is to every creature! John 3v17 -For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. God wants the whole world saved. And the world here is not plants and animals and seas, but mankind! Ezekiel 33v11 -Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: Turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel. 1Timothy 2v3-4 -For this good and acceptable in the sight of God our saviour; who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 2Peter 3v9 -The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, BUT THAT ALL should come to repentance. Titus 2v11 -For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared UNTO ALL MEN. SUMMATION We are all deserving of the second death, but God in His mercy does not want mankind condemned. He sent His son Jesus for the salvation of mankind. And commanded for the gospel to be preached unto every creature to cause the grace that bringeth salvation to appear unto all men. All because he wants no one to perish, but for all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. That right here is the gospel truth and the summation of the verses I quoted on top. All these show and proof that all men are in God's "To Save" list. And those who will not be saved are those who refuse God's offer of salvation, and judge themselves unworthy of eternal life by pushing the gospel of grace away from themselves. No one will go to the lake of fire that didn't of his own freewill reject God's offer of salvation in Christ Jesus. You will have to ignore, or worse, twist a lot of straightforward scriptures to claim otherwise. Shalom. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 12:04pm On Mar 04, 2015 |
Look at them, they don't even understand or know what their own bible says...
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Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 12:18pm On Mar 04, 2015 |
johnydon22:Yes. We cannot fully grasp the enormity of sin. Leave my empathy out of it. The good is that Christ saves completely all who come to God through Him. Completely! |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by johnydon22(m): 12:25pm On Mar 04, 2015 |
5solas:Thats all you find it to be justice... Why should we leave your empathy out of it.. If your empathy clearly is against this your biblical justice then i suggest you have a rethink about this your justice. Their is nothing Just is this from of sadistic and barbaric savagry. Christ saves completely from what? the punishment that he (his father) prepared for you in the first place?
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Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by macof(m): 11:57pm On Mar 04, 2015 |
This jst proves that the Bible and Jehovah are jokes Christians don't even know if its predestination or freewill Wat ever happened to the Bible is the ultimate book of knowledge? |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 6:38am On Mar 05, 2015 |
johnydon22: Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can a man be more pure than his maker?Job 4:17. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 6:39am On Mar 05, 2015 |
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Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by Weah96: 11:58am On Mar 05, 2015 |
5solas: Here you are applauding the benefits of human sacrifice. Later you'll be praying for native doctors to change when you yourself are carrying the mindset of a native doctor. Human sacrifice doesn't yield any benefit other than the loss of life. The person conducting the sacrifice will himself die. It's pointless. |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by 5solas(m): 1:05pm On Mar 05, 2015 |
Weah96: Don't be distressed, this sacrifice lives. Hebrews 7
1 Like |
Re: Has GOD Given Humans Freewill Or Predestinated Humans?? by Nobody: 1:22am On Jul 13, 2016 |
https://www.nairaland.com/3220107/very-interesting-question-christians/2 i have drawn diagrams on the last page of this thread, because christians are masters of wordplay. so here are pictures instead. |
Atheist Dies And Goes To Hell, Then Heaven, Meets God And Shares Testimony. / How Many Times Have You Changed Church? / What Is God Called In The Arabic Translation Of The Bible?
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