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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? (5724 Views)
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Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 2:51pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Well Seun i think am kind of dispointed with some of the comments you make and also with this post. What is human right abuse in a war situation? Seun if someone sends u a video where one of the mods of nairaland being beheaded by him and you and the person slitly missed killing u after killing another of ur mod, if u sees that person in the dark what will u do? Let us place ourselves in the shoes of these soldiers who live in peril everyday because of BH. Conventional war may have rule but gorilar war does not have. The USA & their wife UK, are just simply being funny. The USA have troops in Iraq bt ISIL is growing per second. What have USA done to stop ISIS? |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Seun(m): 2:52pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Firefire:That's no excuse for murdering suspects some of whom may be innocent or may have been coerced. The president can easily fast-track court cases that he considers to be important, by setting up special courts that are well-funded to prosecute the terrorism cases more efficiently. the conspiracy that radicalized Boko-Haram through that your mentioned theory, is still a mystery.The police killed the founder of Boko Haram after capturing him. They brought him out and shot him dead. After that happened, Shekau took over the leadership of the sect and turned it into a full-blown terrorist organization. That unjust execution gave them the moral high ground. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:54pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun: So only the BBC and the CNN say the truth? Were the BBC and CNN not the media houses that showed us images of iraqis nuclear, chemical and biological weapons? Then where were the alleged weapons during and after the war the overthrow of Saddam Hussien? Nigerians and slave-master relationship. 1 Like |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:56pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
vedaxcool: |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:58pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun: So they would taken the founder to court and later freed him like oguche? Maybe take him to court the way america and her allies took saddam hussein, chemical Ali, gadaffi, osama ben-laden, etc to court. 1 Like |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:00pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
American drones are flying across the world killing people as they want and like, rightfully so. Yet these same group, want to hang human right abuse on a Nigerian army captain receiving direct fire from inside a mosque and decides to fire back.Women hiding weapons covered up in their religious attire, been subjected to enhanced modified security searches. The Americans will NEVER hold any of their soldiers to the same conditions they want our men held. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by BodyKiss(m): 3:01pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
jusRadical: The problem with people like you is that you lack value for human lives. Problem with condoning behaviour like this is that it can be abused, which we know our military personnel for, that's why there's legal process for every crime. You justify the amputations and killing of women because of fire-arms possession right, and you think I am worse than boko haram? 1 Like |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 3:02pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Few days ago Netanyahu was in the US to speak to joint section of the congress, why? Because USA & Obama administration is planning to support Iraq nuke production. Iran is known for their human right abuse. The USA said our soldiers are weak & afraid. Their plans are failing them already, soon they will starte with another form of propaganda. Since Nigerian soldiers started winning the war over insurgency, how many times have u seen it make news headlines in CNN as it was making when we were losing? We should forget the USA, we dont need their weapons anylonger. We have resorted in buying from China, Rusia, Pakistan etc... 2 Likes |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:03pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun: Oh! I forgot. America should send us the judge that judged all those detained without trial at guatenama bay. 1 Like |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Ikwokrikwo: 3:03pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Where did the US try Osama Bin Laden? Dumb thread |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:08pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Ikwokrikwo: In the deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep sea, where sharks were the judges. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:09pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
The US slaughtered 1.5 million Iraqis based on a pack of lies about non-existent WMDs. Not one US official has been tried for that massacre and fraud till date. To hear them talk of human rights is like a sick joke. Those who believe them are irredeemably dumb and gullible. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:10pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Chigold101: My brother do not mind them. Why is the US government keeping the contents of their nuclear deal with Iraq secret? For me, countries must learn to stop running to america as a big brother. They can't even protect Ukraine. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:14pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
ROSSIKE: Is it not maddening? They were quick to fight sadam, gadaffi, osama, but are slow in fighting ISIS with no boots on ground theory. Did it not a kurdish man to make global appeal when those kurdish christians ran to the mountain tops because of isis before the US could send their planes? |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:14pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
ROSSIKE: I can deal with the American hypocrisy, what has baffled me, has been their Nigerian megaphones. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:15pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
ROSSIKE: Is it not maddening? They were quick to fight sadam, gadaffi, osama, but are slow in fighting ISIS with no boots on ground theory. Did it not a kurdish man to make global appeal when those kurdish christians ran to the mountain tops because of isis before the US could send their planes? |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Firefire(m): 3:16pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun: I agree with you 100% government do not have any justification to kill or take laws into their hands. (We do not have such incidence) Thinking in the right direction, as you suggested, the government should look in the direction of setting up a special courts that will be well-funded to prosecute cases of terrorism outside our normal, snail speed courts. You will recall that Dr. Goodluck Jonathan gave the same directive to the Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar as of 17th July 2012. What went wrong? We should ask Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar President Goodluck Jonathan on Monday advised the new Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar to confront the challenges ahead as the foremost judicial officer in the country. He said, “I am confident that you will quickly settle down to work and commence the urgent task of reforming and repositioning the judiciary for effective and efficient discharge of constitutional mandate. “Your Lordship will preside over the judiciary at a time of profound challenges that demand united response. We believe that judiciary can play a crucial role as we confront critical challenges. “We are dealing with security challenges occasioned by sporadic act of terrorism in some parts of the country. The three arms of government must work co-operatively to overcome these terrorists’ threats and acts in the country. “The war against corruption is another endeavour that calls for concerted action by all arms of government. I am confident that the judiciary under your able leadership will rise up to the challenge and provide the most needed support for government to address these challenges. “I believe that an independent judiciary remains the final hope of our citizen.” - Dr. Goodluck Jonathan - 2012 see the Chief Justice response: But speaking with State House correspondents shortly after the ceremony, Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of establishing special courts to try cases of terrorism. “I talked about that at the Senate that there is no need for a special court. A judge, two or three in the states can be designated to take care of that (trial of terrorism cases),” she said http://www.punchng.com/news/tackle-terrorism-corruption-jonathan-urges-mukhtar/ |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:17pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
atlwireles: Do not mind them. They think that the US loves them. But they are wrong. America is only for her selfish and self-centred interest. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:18pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
atlwireles:Exactly. Remember when a US general in Iraq was asked how many Iraqi civilians had been killed by US troops? His reply? "We don't do body counts''. These are the same monsters lecturing us on human rights? Their hypocrisy stinks to high heavens. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by CyberTerrorist: 3:21pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun and Gbawe2, where were you when USA was slaughtering millions of Iraqis on assumptions of WMD? Where is the WMD today? You guys are just pathetic ..Spits on useless thread 1 Like |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:21pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
ROSSIKE: Can you imagine the number of civilians and innocent people killed by the american drones in the last 2 years? |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 3:24pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
jusRadical:as it stands right now Nigeria & USA are just pretending to be friends. Nigeria learnt their lessons in a bitter way... |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by CyberTerrorist: 3:26pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
The OP ran away from his thread |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Firefire(m): 3:27pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun: Even if the human being has been escaping the long arm of the law, extra judicial killing of Yusuf is condemnable. But his followers have no moral right to result to killing, maiming and involving in barbaric acts. That is simply an act of terrorism & must be condemned by all. http://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/07/boko-haram-leader-yusuf-killed/ |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:29pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
atlwireles:Many Nigerians are hardwired to see the Americans as morally superior etc. They are hypotized by America's economic success. They can't see the deep and massive globalised corruption perpetrated by the US which underlies that success. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Gbawe2: 3:31pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
CyberTerrorist: Have you seen me argue here that the USA is a human rights champion or human rights 'Police' of the world? Frankly I don't hold such views. George Bush, for example, is a war criminal in my opinion. I was an active blogger before the period leading to the Iraq war and I wrote passionately about WMD (weapons of mass destruction) being just an excuse for Bush and Blair, post 9/11, to criminally invade Iraq and topple a figurehead proponent (Saddam ) of the "axis of evil". Read what I wrote again and you will see I make it clear that the issue of the USA failing to help Nigeria goes beyond the consideration of human rights abuse alone. The USA has always being able to 'live with' human rights abuse and 'collateral damage' if such is in her interest. Read below to see that the real issue is that the USA is not keen, any time soon, to help Boko Haram become the ISIS of West Africa. This is the real reason the USA will not be supplying Nigeria with powerful weapons. You guys, instead of just being emotional and angry, should follow events closer and view issues dispassionately. This way it will be obvious what all stakeholders are doing when they take certain decisions. http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/rift-between-us-nigeria-impeding-fight-against-boko-haram/200239/ Rift between US, Nigeria Impeding Fight against Boko Haram |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:36pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
The US created Al Qaeda, and the US created ISIL. Without these mysteriously funded/powerful "terrorist" groups, the US could never take over Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen etc, plus others they're still planning to seize. They need an evil bogeyman that serves as their 'reason' for invading these countries and so they create and fund these groups either directly or through their allies like Saudi Arabia. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:46pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Gbawe2: Long story for nothing. Actions have spoken louder than words. The Nigerian army and the government placed their hopes on a partner that never was. Since the United states advise and counsel have been relegated to the dustbin, both in public and in private. The military action since January have progressed with a level of success not seen since 2012. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:54pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun and Gbawe please read this and tell me if the US took all these people to court. 41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground New analysis of data conducted by human rights group Reprieve shared with the Guardian, raises questions about accuracy of intelligence guiding ‘precise’ strikes. ‘Drone strikes have been sold to the American public on the claim that they’re ‘precise.’ But they are only as precise as the intelligence that feeds them.’ Photograph: Khaled Abdullah/Reuters Spencer Ackerman in New York @attackerman Monday 24 November 2014 11.55 EST The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13 January 2006, hovering over a village in Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later, they came again for the man who would become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur. Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive. Seventy-six children and 29 adults, according to reports after the two strikes, are not. However many Americans know who Zawahiri is, far fewer are familiar with Qari Hussain. Hussain was a deputy commander of the Pakistani Taliban, a militant group aligned with al-Qaida that trained the would-be Times Square bomber, Faisal Shahzad, before his unsuccessful 2010 attack. The drones first came for Hussain years before, on 29 January 2008. Then they came on 23 June 2009, 15 January 2010, 2 October 2010 and 7 October 2010. Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later confirmed. For the death of a man whom practically no American can name, the US killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none of whom it meant to harm. A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November. Reprieve, sifting through reports compiled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, examined cases in which specific people were targeted by drones multiple times. Their data, shared with the Guardian, raises questions about the accuracy of US intelligence guiding strikes that US officials describe using words like “clinical” and “precise.” The analysis is a partial estimate of the damage wrought by Obama’s favored weapon of war, a tool he and his administration describe as far more precise than more familiar instruments of land or air power. “Drone strikes have been sold to the American public on the claim that they’re ‘precise’. But they are only as precise as the intelligence that feeds them. There is nothing precise about intelligence that results in the deaths of 28 unknown people, including women and children, for every ‘bad guy’ the US goes after,” said Reprieve’s Jennifer Gibson, who spearheaded the group’s study. Some 24 men specifically targeted in Pakistan resulted in the death of 874 people. All were reported in the press as “killed” on multiple occasions, meaning that numerous strikes were aimed at each of them. The vast majority of those strikes were unsuccessful. An estimated 142 children were killed in the course of pursuing those 24 men, only six of whom died in the course of drone strikes that killed their intended targets. In Yemen, 17 named men were targeted multiple times. Strikes on them killed 273 people, at least seven of them children. At least four of the targets are still alive. Available data for the 41 men targeted for drone strikes across both countries indicate that each of them was reported killed multiple times. Seven of them are believed to still be alive. The status of another, Haji Omar, is unknown. Abu Ubaidah al-Masri, whom drones targeted three times, later died from natural causes, believed to be hepatitis. The data cohort is only a fraction of those killed by US drones overall. Reprieve did not focus on named targets struck only once. Neither Reprieve nor the Guardian examined the subset of drone strikes that do not target specific people: the so-called “signature strikes” that attack people based on a pattern of behavior considered suspicious, rather than intelligence tying their targets to terrorist activity. An analytically conservative Council on Foreign Relations tally assesses that 500 drone strikes outside of Iraq and Afghanistan have killed 3,674 people. As well, the data is agnostic on the validity of the named targets struck on multiple occasions being marked for death in the first place. Like all weapons, drones will inevitably miss their targets given enough chances. But the secrecy surrounding them obscures how often misses occur and the reasons for them. Even for the 33 named targets whom the drones eventually killed – successes, by the logic of the drone strikes – another 947 people died in the process. There are myriad problems with analyzing data from US drone strikes. Those strikes occur under a blanket of official secrecy, which means analysts must rely on local media reporting about their aftermath, with all the attendant problems besetting journalism in dangerous or denied places. Anonymous leaks to media organizations, typically citing an unnamed American, Yemeni or Pakistani official, are the only acknowledgements that the strikes actually occur, or target a particular individual. Without the CIA and the Joint Special Operations Command declassifying more information on the strikes, unofficial and imprecise information is all that is available, complicating efforts to independently verify or refute administration assurances about the impact of the drones. What little US officials say about the strikes typically boils down to assurances that they apply “ targeted, surgical pressure to the groups that threaten us,” as John Brennan, now the CIA director, said in a 2011 speech. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:58pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Continued below. “The only people that we fire a drone at [sic] are confirmed terrorist targets at the highest level after a great deal of vetting that takes a long period of time. We don’t just fire a drone at somebody and think they’re a terrorist,” the secretary of state, John Kerry, said at a BBC forum in 2013. A Reprieve team investigating on the ground in Pakistan turned up what it believes to be a confirmed case of mistaken identity. Someone with the same name as a terror suspect on the Obama administration’s “kill list” was killed on the third attempt by US drones. His brother was captured, interrogated and encouraged to “tell the Americans what they want to hear”: that they had in fact killed the right person. Reprieve has withheld identifying details of the family in question, making the story impossible to independently verify. “President Obama needs to be straight with the American people about the human cost of this programme. If even his government doesn’t know who is filling the body bags every time a strike goes wrong, his claims that this is a precise programme look like nonsense, and the risk that it is in fact making us less safe looks all too real,” Gibson said. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Gbawe2: 4:11pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
@Topic. My view is that , ultimately, Nigeria has to help herself and our Government has simply not done that enough in relation to Boko Haram. Of course the USA is self-serving and hypocritical but which nation of the world is not? The problem, as shown even by our discussion here, is that Africans are too sentimental and place all emphasis on feeling sorry for themselves and talking as if others owe them solutions while whining like victims instead of learning to play the game and taking responsibility for their own progress. For example, The first outbreak of Ebola was in Sudan in 1976. The second major outbreak began in the Democratic republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) in 1995. Did Africans, the primary victims, learn from those outbreaks? Did we understand that we must try to produce a vaccine against this deadly disease capable of decimating large swathes of Africa if unchecked? Big NO !!! While we shirked our responsibilities like little kids and deferred our duties of developing a vaccine, Ebola has now returned devastatingly and all that irresponsible Africans can do is to blame the USA for not providing us with an experimental drug that does not even have FDA approval and takes ages to produce a small dose meaning the USA had to control 'stock' for when her own citizens may need such. That is how we Africans do things. We never take responsibility for our own problem and do not believe that charity begins at home enough to begin sincerely seeking African solutions for African problems. We must always blame others for our woes. Similarly with our current terror predicament, we saw the Nigerian government make a complete mess of the Boko Haram issue because of politics of self-preservation and self-interest. Should we not be ashamed, when we are the victims, to now put everything at the door of the USA? How some have turned this conversation into a discussion focusing on the 'hypocrisy' of the USA , without looking at the deficiencies of our own leaders, is the perfect display of the irresponsible egotism of Africans that leaves us fiddling while the house burns down. Sometimes when I see the way Nigerians vehemently curse the USA, UK et al, in relation to our own self-created woes, I am reminded of how we have a long way to go in understanding that there is no free lunch in lif and that we must, above others, take responsibility for finding solutions to our own problems. Nigeria can defeat Boko Haram alone, without US or foreign help, if we are led by sincere men and women who truly value the lives and well-being of their people. As simple as that. |
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 4:34pm On Mar 07, 2015 |
Seun, please have heard about president Obama's 'Kill List'? Google is able to help you out. |
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