seunmsg:



Ekiti is not Ijesha land. That we collaborated at some point during the Ekiti Parapo war does not make Ekiti part of Ijesha land.

My statement was not drawn from Ijesa/Ekiti war collaboration.

Ijesa (not Ilesa) starts from enu owa - the front of Ooni's palace to Ekiti, it is a known fact amongst 'researchers and traditionalists'.

Incase you didn't know Ijesa land spreads as far as a bulky part of what is now Osogbo town.

I'll get academic sources for you but also do a research yourself

9jacrip:


Sovereignty over Oyo Ile abd subjugated Oyo towns, not all.

I/we call myself/ourselves Yoruba because of the unification many factors that links us has created.

Does the king of your town claim descent from Oduduwa and Ile Ife?

[s]

MrPresident1:


What I tell you is recent history, you don't need to be sentimental about it. The Ijebu were a disparate people. Oduduwa met people on ground when he arrived Ile ife and this aborigines include the disparate Ijebu tribes. The Ijebu were vassals/subjects of Oyo.

Agbejaile settler of land disputes, an Ilari from the Royal Court of Oyo was the first Awujale

I gave you a source from your own book.

[/s]

You're obviously a troll - or probably that Isale biitch just looking for my attention.

And you just stole whatever crap you posted from what PhysicsQED's comment on that thread (I saw you there) - but you're too stupid to copy the whole thing.

Let me help you complete the excerpts Physics posted from the book:

[60 Although still described as a 'Viceroyalty of Benin' by one observer of the early nineteenth century: Robertson, Notes on Africa, 30I. In fact, Ijebu appears to have been incorporated into the sphere of influence of Oyo from the seventeenth century onwards: cf. Robin Law, The Oyo Empire, c.16oo - c.1836 (Oxford, I977), I35-7.

61 An account of the I840s states that Ijebu had 'long since' taken over control of this area from Benin: d'Avezac-Macaya, in Curtin, Africa Remembered, 239.] - Robin Law, "Trade and Politics behind the Slave Coast: The Lagoon Traffic and the Rise of Lagos, 1500-1800" (1983)

Initially, I was going to start posting academic sources/facts from my portable hard disk - but you're not worth the time. Keep trolling and stay off my mentions.

Comment deleted

[s]

MrPresident1:


'long since' taken over control from Benin and yet became subject to Oyo. The fact of Ijebu subjugation and domination by Oyo is proved. What is your point exactly? that the Ijebu were never subject to Oyo?

Ijebu were never subjects/vassals of Oyo?

You are not worth my time too. My point is proved. The first Awujale was an Ilari from the Royal courts of Oyo.

[/s]

Effing troll, stop quoting me.

Let me give you a little gift, from just a simple academic source cos I can't be ar.sed with debating a vacuous dunderhead:

At first the archaeological evidence tended to support this type of approach. The spectacular finds at Ife (Willett, 1967) suggested a wealthy, sophisticated culture with kingship institutions already established. Radiocarbon dates put the 'classical' period of Ife, art at about A.D. 1000-1400. This neatly tallied with reconstructions of chronology based on the surviving kinglists of states like Oyo, Ketu, Benin and Ijebu. Their foundations were generally placed between the 13th and 15th centuries - perhaps about 1300 (Smith, 1969: 34), and the tradition that their founders came from Ife, was accepted at face value by many authors.

http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/yorubat/yt2.html

^^^Hopefully, that will fill the vacuum in ya head, and at least give you an insight into how old the Ijebu Kingdom is - and the Kingdoms on its level.

SirShymexx:
[s][/s]

Effing troll, stop quoting me.

Let me give you a little gift, from just a simple academic source cos I can't be ar.sed with debating a vacuous dunderhead:

At first the archaeological evidence tended to support this type of approach. The spectacular finds at Ife (Willett, 1967) suggested a wealthy, sophisticated culture with kingship institutions already established. Radiocarbon dates put the 'classical' period of Ife, art at about A.D. 1000-1400. This neatly tallied with reconstructions of chronology based on the surviving kinglists of states like Oyo, Ketu, Benin and Ijebu. Their foundations were generally placed between the 13th and 15th centuries - perhaps about 1300 (Smith, 1969: 34), and the tradition that their founders came from Ife, was accepted at face value by many authors.

http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/yorubat/yt2.html

^^^Hopefully, that will fill the vacuum in ya head, and at least give you an insight into how old the Ijebu Kingdom is - and the Kingdoms on its level.

Listen and listen well, Oduduwa met people on arrival from the East, Ijebu disparate tribes were one of the aboriginal tribes he met.

Ijebu despite their purported riches were subjects/vassals of Oyo. Oyo ruled Ijebu, this is verifiable History. Stop being impervious to knowledge.

MrPresident1:


Does the king of your town claim descent from Oduduwa and Ile Ife?

I'm full blooded Ife.

I know where you're headed with the Q.

Because Oduduwa gave Oranmiyan earth (sand) denoting his ownership of all the lands his brothers set up their domains at and right to periodic tribute does not nevessarily mean Oranmiyan/Alaafin lorded the entire Yoruba towns.

Ijebu was in excistence before Oyo, the Ijebu folks even directed Owa towards the sea where he got brine for Oduduwa's eyes.

Igbomina was already in existence before Ile-Ife of Oduduwa period.

Furthermore, lordship of Oyo was via military conquest and occupation. Not all towns were conquered, as a result, not all towns paid tributes.

What is undeniable is Oyo's military sway in Yoruba land (Dahomey and Benin inclusive).

Double post.

9jacrip:


I'm full blooded Ife.

I know where you're headed with the Q.

Because Oduduwa gave Oranmiyan earth (sand) denoting his ownership of all the lands his brothers set up their domains at and right to periodic tribute does not nevessarily mean Oranmiyan/Alaafin lorded the entire Yoruba towns.

Ijebu was in excistence before Oyo, the Ijebu folks even directed Owa towards the sea where he got brine for Oduduwa's eyes.

Igbomina was already in existence before Ile-Ife of Oduduwa period.

Furthermore, lordship of Oyo was via military conquest and occupation. Not all towns were conquered, as a result, not all towns paid tributes.

What is undeniable is Oyo's military sway in Yoruba land (Dahomey and Benin inclusive).

Ijebu, Ife, Ekiti, perhaps elements of the Igbomina as you allude, were all on ground before Oduduwa arrived.

Towns like Ile-Ife were not over run because of their spiritual significance. Towns that were not conquered either submitted or they had some esoteric significance. But Oyo ruled 'Yorubaland'.

Oyo had military might but yet she did not rule? Is that what you mean?

MrPresident1:



Ijebu, Ife, Ekiti, perhaps elements of the Igbomina as you allude, were all on ground before Oduduwa arrived.

Towns like Ile-Ife were not over run because of their spiritual significance. Towns that were not conquered either submitted or they had some esoteric significance. But Oyo ruled 'Yorubaland'.

Oyo had military might but yet she did not rule? Is that what you mean?

She had military might but did not necessarily hold the entire Yoruba towns as hostage.

Even places in Eko did not have any interaction with Oyo's military might.

This academic source is for Katsumoto.

Apparently, the only claim by Oyo was that the Alaafin went to the Ijebu to install an Awujale, in the 17th century - he supposedly happened to be the 36th Awujale out of the 57 Awujales Ijebus had by 1959. So, how was an Oyo Ilari title able to have more Kings than Oyo, during the same time-frame?

Anyway, the links explained the legends about the different claims from both Oyo and Bini - and how implausible those claims are.

Citation: "Kingdoms of the Yoruba" By Robert Sydney Smith

SirShymexx:


I'm waterside Ijebu as well...went there the last time I was in naija. The place has a lot of potentials and hopefully they won't turn it into a massive slum like the rest of Lagos.

Hope the in-coming government give us Ijebu state with boundary adjustment to merge with our kin in Ogun state or better still regional autonomy.Then we could harness the potentials contentedly.

SirShymexx:
[s][/s]

Effing troll, stop quoting me.

Let me give you a little gift, from just a simple academic source cos I can't be ar.sed with debating a vacuous dunderhead:

At first the archaeological evidence tended to support this type of approach. The spectacular finds at Ife (Willett, 1967) suggested a wealthy, sophisticated culture with kingship institutions already established. Radiocarbon dates put the 'classical' period of Ife, art at about A.D. 1000-1400. This neatly tallied with reconstructions of chronology based on the surviving kinglists of states like Oyo, Ketu, Benin and Ijebu. Their foundations were generally placed between the 13th and 15th centuries - perhaps about 1300 (Smith, 1969: 34), and the tradition that their founders came from Ife, was accepted at face value by many authors.

http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/yorubat/yt2.html

^^^Hopefully, that will fill the vacuum in ya head, and at least give you an insight into how old the Ijebu Kingdom is - and the Kingdoms on its level.

Best you leave that man to his delusions..he wings accept anything you tell him outside his cult
He is the same one that calls Yorubas sons of Jacob

.

MrPresident1:


Ijebu were not subjects/vassals of the Oyo empire?

NEVER.PLEASE READ BOOKS ABOUT YORUBA HISTORY,WE IJEBUS WERE THE ONES SELLING GUNS FOR THEN and in turn,they used the guns to enslave other upper yoruba people such as the ondos ifes,ekitis ijeshas etc etc.but not all upper/interior yorubas were subjugated.the ore/owo people were much more closer to benin and were under benin influence.

Billyonaire:
This discussion is NOT for women. Can you invite your husband to come and discuss this issue with me ? Thanks for respecting yourself in advance. Oba Lil Wayne needs my reprimand. He is a mere mortal and cant do some shit I do.

You should be tarred and feathered then boiled in oil.

seunfly:


First class in which aspect?

Is it in state or in a standard Yoruba concept.

At state level, we may have many first class king depending on the size and importance of their community in the state.

In a standard Yoruba concept, we don't have many first class king and I don't think oba of Lagos is among.



The traditional first class Yoruba kings are Orogun of Ila, Alafin of Oyo, Oni of Ife, Alake of egba and oba of bennin.

The next in hierachy are: Olubadan of Ibadan, awojale of Ijebu, Timi of Ede, owa obokun Of Ijesha, onokoyi, Osamawe of ondo etc

The third level are Soun of ogbomosho, olofa of offa, akinrun of ikinrun etc.

Some of our popular kings are made popular because of the mordern development which favour their community and they become more popular.

For instance Deji of Akure in not bigger than Osamawe of ondo but since akure in the capital and Deji is the king of Akure, his throne overshadow the king of ondo town.

I don't know on whose authority you derive such ranking, but I don't think the alale is bigger than the Awujale

Mynd44:

The day they make Oba of Lagos a first class is the day the Awujale becomes one too

.

Clap for yourself, so the Awujale is equivalent to Oba of Lagos, even the Oba of Lagos will dare not accept such ranking. Anyway the freedom of expression is to all and sundry.

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Ilaje44:


Esun and Satan are twodifferent things. If you know your traditions very well, Esu can never equate to Satan. While Satan is a diabolical figure, an ursurper, the worst thing you can attribute to Esu is deceit. Esu was never a completely diabolical figure as he's been/being depicted by the new religions.

There no Satan in any traditional African religion no where in the longest history on Earth.Satan is a Euruasian entity which stems from Zoraster beliefs of cosmic opposing Gods. Africans only acknowledge one cosmic supreme force,Yorubas say Olodumare, Egyptians had Amen, Congolese has Kalunga, etc. Olodumare is all powerful and has no rival. None. Ase. Love Sango

Y'all should please stop adding Oba of Benin as a Yoruba king. He is not and will never part of Yorubas, we edos don't want to be attached to Yorubas. We are unique and so are the Yorubas,y'all disgust me with this comments and am new here!

seunfly:


First class in which aspect?

Is it in state or in a standard Yoruba concept.

At state level, we may have many first class king depending on the size and importance of their community in the state.

In a standard Yoruba concept, we don't have many first class king and I don't think oba of Lagos is among.



The traditional first class Yoruba kings are Orogun of Ila, Alafin of Oyo, Oni of Ife, Alake of egba and oba of bennin.

The next in hierachy are: Olubadan of Ibadan, awojale of Ijebu, Timi of Ede, owa obokun Of Ijesha, onokoyi, Osamawe of ondo etc

The third level are Soun of ogbomosho, olofa of offa, akinrun of ikinrun etc.

Some of our popular kings are made popular because of the mordern development which favour their community and they become more popular.

For instance Deji of Akure in not bigger than Osamawe of ondo but since akure in the capital and Deji is the king of Akure, his throne overshadow the king of ondo town.

Stop adding Benin as part of Yoruba Obas it's an insult to the Benin people so please stop it!! Haba.

Sincereheart1:
Y'all should please stop adding Oba of Benin as a Yoruba king. He is not and will never part of Yorubas, we edos don't want to be attached to Yorubas. We are unique and so are the Yorubas,y'all disgust me with this comments and am new here!

Spend some time to learn about things you know not, before you start admonishing your (elders) teachers.

isalegan2:


Spend some time to learn about things you know not, before you start admonishing your (elders) teachers.

You can't tell me nothing about what I already know!! So please stop ok.

What an interesting thread!!

macof:


Who told you Deji and Osemawe are mates? Deji is a Leopard in that region of Yorubaland...and it's not about modern development but hundreds of years history

In ondo state the Deji is the primus inter pares among ondo state obas he is the first among equal followed by Osemawe of ondo and Olowo of owo, Owa of idanre and so on. The Alake,AwujaleAlaafin,Ooni,Owa obokun ilesa, oba of lagos, Ewi of Ado ekiti, Elekole ekiti, Orangun ila, Akarigbo Remo, Those are the Natural Rulers who rule of Division and ancients towns or kingdoms