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BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. - Politics (7) - Nairaland

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Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by stave9ja(m): 6:26pm On May 12, 2015
OrlandoOwoh:

This great. Is the IPP gas-powered? What does a flat pay as bill?

its gas powered

it 40naira per kilowatt

it all depends on what you wanna use

i have used 400 naira for two weeks before when i wanted to save like crazy

and had used 15k for a month (5 ac working loooong hours)

1 Like

Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 6:27pm On May 12, 2015
gists:

Does it also make sense for someone in Ikeja to keep sleeping in darkness while there is excess power in Afam in Rivers state that cannot be pushed to national grid? better still, does it makes sense for someone in Mowe/Ibafo to be sleeping in darkness while their is power in Berger simply because we refuse to make room for that flexibility? What happens to the idea of the DISCO serving Berger to sell power to the DISCO serving Mowe?
Having said that, I am 100% for decentralization (generating power nearby to the people that need it), but I also believe flexibility and robustness should not be thrown out of the window.


The problem at the moment has to do largely with the inefficient and outdated transmission grid.

They should let the local communities take care of their power needs instead of the FG wasting time and years looking for billions of dollars to build power plants and some more billions of dollars to build a new transmission system all over the country.

The FG should scrap the transmission lines and build new and more effective lines from scratch. The new transmission line can transport any excess power from the places you mentioned to needy areas or even send it out to other countries for sale.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by EMANY01(m): 6:34pm On May 12, 2015
pasol4real:

Pls which part of Lagos is there Light 24/7

Sarcasm man sarcasm.It went right over your head.

1 Like

Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 6:37pm On May 12, 2015
stave9ja:


its gas powered

it 40naira per kilowatt

it all depends on what you wanna use

i have used 400 naira for two weeks before when i wanted to save like crazy

and had used 15k for a month (5 ac working loooong hours)
Does it mean that in a face-me-i-face-you building they may be paying upto 50 k per month?
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 7:03pm On May 12, 2015
aresa:
Solar school...







www.nairaland.com/attachments/2367087_a_jpeg14a53cac5a312f3d1ad4980fec051d42



www.nairaland.com/attachments/2367090_g_jpegb5568a2e9fbfe67d78600688f9dcea10





Another Lagos state power approach. Getting schools, hospitals and other public institutions off the grid via Solar...


Agian, anything is possible, we just need the right thinking leaders in place to make it happen... this is not rocket science..

With projects like, I still cant phantom why and how PDP was able to get more than 100k votes in lagos state. PDP idealy should not get more 38k votes for people who understand what governance is about. Well lets stay on the power issue sha.

1 Like

Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 8:01pm On May 12, 2015
9jatriot:


With projects like, I still cant phantom why and how PDP was able to get more than 100k votes in lagos state. PDP idealy should not get more 38k votes for people who understand what governance is about. Well lets stay on the power issue sha.

Unfortunately for us in Nigeria, voting is not always about performance, people vote based on irrelevant and self destructive things like tribalism, religious, bigotry and so on.

1 Like

Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 4:22am On May 13, 2015
OrlandoOwoh:

The so-called nation grid can not serve the whole country. This is the reason we have IPPs. What business does, the Olorunshogo Plant in Ogun State for example, have in giving power to Port Harcourt? Consider the distance and the MW. Distribution should be taken from the exclusive list and put in the concurrent or residual list. The just built IPPs should be acquired by the states that don't have their own IPPs.
I gave the example of Afam because I heard Afam is deliberately not generating to maximum installed capacity because the national grid cannot take the power (I can't confirm this but I tend to believe the story). So, the guy in ikeja may probably not be sleeping in darkness if this was not the case. Don't get me wrong because I am not asking for more money to be pumped into the grid. I just don't want us to lose that flexibility but yanking off an upper layer of connectivity as backup. Again I repeat, I am for 1000% decentralization.

But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state.

In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer.

aresa:

The problem at the moment has to do largely with the inefficient and outdated transmission grid.
They should let the local communities take care of their power needs instead of the FG wasting time and years looking for billions of dollars to build power plants and some more billions of dollars to build a new transmission system all over the country.
The FG should scrap the transmission lines and build new and more effective lines from scratch. The new transmission line can transport any excess power from the places you mentioned to needy areas or even send it out to other countries for sale.
I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 5:23am On May 13, 2015
This lady said it all while responding to similar questions on another thread. Hopefully she'll come here and share more thoughts.

nuesaweso:
The business of privatisation of power generation and distribution is complex because it's multi-disciplinary. As someone rightly pointed out, a typical functional commercial power system will normally balance on the technical, commercial & legal tripod.
Technical - Covers choice of technology for generation, transmission, distribution, engineering related issues etc
Commercial - Finance (equity or debt), Capex, Opex, Metering, life extension etc
Legal - Conflicts management, liquidated damages, service credits etc.
Lastly, you would require some form of Regulatory body usually a Govt body (OfGem in the UK) which oversees the activities of private companies.

I won't expand on each of the emboldened above here as I'm sure there are many literatures out there covering that; but you can begin to have a feel of how many interfaces required to have a functional privatised energy sector. The mistake we all make is we focus only on the technical side.

Does america, russia and brazil use a national grid system? Why do we enjoy making simple tins difficult in naija sef?

All these countries do have some form of grid system. America has regional grid system and you would appreciate that due to the geographical size of the country, it's difficult (not impossible) to have a national grid system. Russia has a national grid system which is interconnected with Norway. They also have a sub-grid system that connects remote areas. These countries have nuclear power plant, and there is no way you can operate a nuclear power plant without a grid system.

A grid system offers your electrical network reliability and resilience. Imagine if the only generator connected to a city suffers an electrical fault or out for planned maintenance, how would you reconnect the city with some form of grid system? What I would expect is for us to move towards a smart grid system, which allows distributed generation to be connected at different voltage levels. We can deal with other technical problems like harmonics, Rocof etc later


Baba, Brazil has oil but abt 70% of dia power is from renewable energy - water. Abi is water and sun hard to find again in naija. Solar power can power d north becos d north has hot sun. Hydro power can power d south-west, south-east and south-south.

To me, its dat simple.


Baba, Nigeria could boast of almost proportional hydroelectric power - sure you've heard of Mambilla. Same problem, never works! For other forms of renewable power, our grid is just not robust enough and we would suffer more if we connect these volatile and intermittent renewable sources (wind, solar) to the grid. However, I accept that this could form part of the long term solution.

The reason I mentioned CCGT is because we all know we have readily available gas that can be monetised locally. You can get a new CCGT 1GW ready in about 24 months, and this can literally be "copied" & "pasted" around the country with the right infrastructure and site-specific modifications. For me, this is our short term fix. Also, CCGTs can be used for both base load & peak load unlike hydroelectric.

Nothing can be achieved in dis country if we all hav such a mindset.
My point is we don't need to reinvent the wheel or try to be too clever when there are cheap, proven and available solutions to our problem.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 5:43am On May 13, 2015
gists:

I gave the example of Afam because I heard Afam is deliberately not generating to maximum installed capacity because the national grid cannot take the power (I can't confirm this but I tend to believe the story). So, the guy in ikeja may probably not be sleeping in darkness if this was not the case. Don't get me wrong because I am not asking for more money to be pumped into the grid. I just don't want us to lose that flexibility but yanking off an upper layer of connectivity as backup. Again I repeat, I am for 1000% decentralization.

But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state.

In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer.


I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks.
The issue of enough land space to site the IPPs in Lagos State is not a problem, the privately owned IPP along Lagos-Abeokuta Road, not far from Nigerian Breweries, Ota, sits on not-more-than four plots of land. It uses gas. As congested as Lagos State is, there are still enough lands.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 7:47am On May 13, 2015
OrlandoOwoh:

The issue of enough land space to site the IPPs in Lagos State is not a problem, the privately owned IPP along Lagos-Abeokuta Road, not far from Nigerian Breweries, Ota, sits on not-more-than four plots of land. It uses gas. As congested as Lagos State is, there are still enough lands.
All the same, we still a grid. I can't think of a country that doesn't have one. Pylon-making companies would have gone out of business if there are no customers buying pylons for transmission on their grids cheesy As I said earlier, the grid provides flexibility and robustness.
BTW the IPP you talked about in Ota. But is Ota is in Ogun state not Lagos - right? Without a grid how will someone in Ikotun or Ajegunle benefit from that IPP in Ota.
We still need a grid -period! But to revamp it is not the priority now. The priority is decentralizaation of electricity generation. The idea of BIG GENCos pumping electricity into the grid at a national level for onward transmission across the country will not work - especially with our inefficient grid network. The concept should be reversed. Eliminate the GENCos at the national level and bring them closer to the "community" i.e end-users. But since the Discos are already at the end-user levels, they may as well partially or fully assume the role of GENCos. Let them generate for their respective communities and upload the rest to the grid for other communities whose GENCo/DISCo has issues or cannot meet their demand for whatever reason.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by OrlandoOwoh(m): 8:22am On May 13, 2015
gists:

All the same, we still a grid. I can't think of a country that doesn't have one. Pylon-making companies would have gone out of business if there are no customers buying pylons for transmission on their grids cheesy As I said earlier, the grid provides flexibility and robustness.
BTW the IPP you talked about in Ota. But is Ota is in Ogun state not Lagos - right? Without a grid how will someone in Ikotun or Ajegunle benefit from that IPP in Ota.
We still need a grid -period! But to revamp it is not the priority now. The priority is decentralizaation of electricity generation. The idea of BIG GENCos pumping electricity into the grid at a national level for onward transmission across the country will not work - especially with our inefficient grid network. The concept should be reversed. Eliminate the GENCos at the national level and bring them closer to the "community" i.e end-users. But since the Discos are already at the end-user levels, they may as well partially or fully assume the role of GENCos. Let them generate for their respective communities and upload the rest to the grid for other communities whose GENCo/DISCo has issues or cannot meet their demand for whatever reason.
I only used the IPP in Sango Ota which occupies a not too large land as an example when you raised the issue of non-availability of land in Lagos State.
We won't because we want makers pylons not to run out of business then we watch power go more epileptic. If you see the risk people and vehicles in Kola/AIT junction along Lagos-Abeokuta Expressway face due to the large number of pylons and electric wires of the national grid, you will think twice.
For years Bayelsa State was created, it was not connected to the national grid. Their IPPs ensured steady power supply.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 9:35am On May 13, 2015
aresa:


Unfortunately for us in Nigeria, voting is not always about performance, people vote based on irrelevant and self destructive things like tribalism, religious, bigotry and so on.


With this your statement, Rivers state comes to mind. Well, a people deserve the government they get.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by 9jatriot(m): 9:56am On May 13, 2015
gists:

I gave the example of Afam because I heard Afam is deliberately not generating to maximum installed capacity because the national grid cannot take the power (I can't confirm this but I tend to believe the story). So, the guy in ikeja may probably not be sleeping in darkness if this was not the case. Don't get me wrong because I am not asking for more money to be pumped into the grid. I just don't want us to lose that flexibility but yanking off an upper layer of connectivity as backup. Again I repeat, I am for 1000% decentralization.

But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state.

In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer.


I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks.

The national grid serves as a national treasury where all the power generated is fed into for further transmission and eventual distribution. There is nothing wrong with having modular systems. The problem people have is have is that they still do not look at power issue as an income generating business. People still see it totally as a social service. For example, if 170M people in Nigeria use only 1 naira each day as their utility bill, the company would have made 170M naira per day. That is a lot of money by any standard using a conservative value of 1 naira per person excluding industries and the fact that we actually spend more in a day (An average home my estimation without AC should spend about 100 naira per day). If we see it as a business that one an states decide to invest in it with a view to increase their IGR, then I think it should be encouraged. But they will have to start from somewhere. Rivers state for example has been boasting that they can power their states if only the law enables them to, so why not allow those who can do so. With this system in place a time will come when some states will begin to generate more than what they actually need, at that time, they can now sell to the national grid. Companies can also sell their excess energy into the national grid. With time the cost of power will reduce because we will have a robust system of transmitting and distributing power.
This approach is both a short term and a long term approach, mere thinking about it is commendable. Even if it fails, I will be happy to know that we have a government that is ready to think out of the box. I do not think that the national grid will be phased out, nothing possible. Maybe when the modular systems are powering their areas we will then solve the national grid problem holistically and eventually start exporting power to other countries to reduce our dependency on oil.

What the average man on the streets wants is not mega watts, he wants to switch on his light every day and have at least a 75% chance that it will really come on as against the 5% chance he is presently facing.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by TonySpike: 10:29am On May 13, 2015
9jatriot:


The national grid serves as a national treasury where all the power generated is fed into for further transmission and eventual distribution. There is nothing wrong with having modular systems. The problem people have is have is that they still do not look at power issue as an income generating business. People still see it totally as a social service. For example, if 170M people in Nigeria use only 1 naira each day as their utility bill, the company would have made 170M naira per day. That is a lot of money by any standard using a conservative value of 1 naira per person excluding industries and the fact that we actually spend more in a day (An average home my estimation without AC should spend about 100 naira per day). If we see it as a business that one an states decide to invest in it with a view to increase their IGR, then I think it should be encouraged. But they will have to start from somewhere. Rivers state for example has been boasting that they can power their states if only the law enables them to, so why not allow those who can do so. With this system in place a time will come when some states will begin to generate more than what they actually need, at that time, they can now sell to the national grid. Companies can also sell their excess energy into the national grid. With time the cost of power will reduce because we will have a robust system of transmitting and distributing power.
This approach is both a short term and a long term approach, mere thinking about it is commendable. Even if it fails, I will be happy to know that we have a government that is ready to think out of the box. I do not think that the national grid will be phased out, nothing possible. Maybe when the modular systems are powering their areas we will then solve the national grid problem holistically and eventually start exporting power to other countries to reduce our dependency on oil.

What the average man on the streets wants is not mega watts, he wants to switch on his light every day and have at least a 75% chance that it will really come on as against the 5% chance he is presently facing.
True, sir!
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by EMANY01(m): 12:26pm On May 13, 2015
slimfit1:


Listen technology is way advance this days. You can solidify it, we have trains that can transport gas stop thinking beyond your nose . We have gas in Ondo state, these days gas is found everywhere so don't think it only south south that have energy. Soon the demand for oil would reduce, you need to see research and the amount of money western countries are spending to avoid paying Russia and Saudi Arabia for energy.

So you now admit that that "there are trains that can transport.........." .
I remember that the apc and you guys on nairaland made a song and dance about GEJ's claim about reviving the railways being false.
Which one we go believe now?
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by slimfit1(m): 12:52pm On May 13, 2015
EMANY01:


So you now admit that that "there are trains that can transport.........." .
I remember that the apc and you guys on nairaland made a song and dance about GEJ's claim about reviving the railways being false.
Which one we go believe now?

How difficult is it to put wood or concrete on a rail its not rocket science any more you know so don't make it look big.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 2:46pm On May 13, 2015
gists:

I gave the example of Afam because I heard Afam is deliberately not generating to maximum installed capacity because the national grid cannot take the power (I can't confirm this but I tend to believe the story). So, the guy in ikeja may probably not be sleeping in darkness if this was not the case. Don't get me wrong because I am not asking for more money to be pumped into the grid. I just don't want us to lose that flexibility but yanking off an upper layer of connectivity as backup. Again I repeat, I am for 1000% decentralization.

Afam is suffering simply because the Grid is worthless and can not accept generated power from Afam and the story is the same all over the country. Where is the sense and wisdom in building power plants all over the place with little or no benefit in return because the grid is rotten and inefficient.

Lagos state built 5 Microgrids with 300 miles of underground transmission cables that that are now powering roads, bridges, hospitals, industries, government secretariats and other public buildings 24/7 in less than 4 years.

The only reason why the state is not investing and or accepting energy investments to supply residents with power is because of the counterproductive laws we are yet to get rid of..

But now consider this scenario: suppose Lagos alone needs more than 10 IPPs because of the share size of population and commercial entities. Who says all the IPPs have to be installed in Lagos? Lagos is even expanding into the atlantic ocean! Are we going to sacrifice schools and parks and possible further development just because of this when we have untapped land in Osun for example with less than a quarter of Lagos power needs. If Osun or Ekiti or bayelsa need 100MW for example, why not install 300 or even 500MW and transport the rest to Lagos through this upper layer? That way you keep the lifestyle in Lagos and also industries in Ogun going while generating employment in Osun/ekiti and improving their economy. This does not mean 8 out of the 10 IPPs that Lagos need cannot be installed around the Lagos state.

In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer.

There's nothing wrong with Lagos building their own IPPs to serve their local needs. You said you are for 1000% decentralization, but still promoting centralization. Concentrating power in Osun for onward transmission over many states all the way to Lagos for distribution is centralization, you are basically leaving power infrastructure exposed over hundreds of miles.

In case of any mishap or deliberate tampering or sabotage, the whole of Lagos and several states are out of power possibly for days or weeks till the problem is located and fixed.

Osun is an agrarian society and job creation in Osun should be centered around Agric to take care of the food needs of the entire region. What they need is cheap and effective modern transportation to move goods and services to markets in Lagos and other states and supplies and machineries to Osun and surrounding Agric states, Hi-Tech Agric and storage system and so on. This is their strength and how to build wealth and generate employment in places like Osun state..

I don't think the local communities should handle this. Who will coordinate this? The local government chairmen? I believe this will be creating another mini FG in the various communities. Gov. Fashola was once credited to have said "government does not have business in business" and I completely agree with him. Let the discos handle this as a commercial venture. Nigeria is already covered by the various discos. But there may be need to reonstitute the discos to better serve the communities. Let give them power to generate and remove any bottleneck preventing them from getting finance from banks.

This is not about the local governments or LG chairman running power infrastructures or DISCOs, the is about letting utility companies set up power plants and distribution networks in designated cities and communities to serve their local needs with the government regulating their operations..

The DISCOs as they are right now are inefficient and grossly incapable of delivering anything meaningful to their customers, they are not even in any profitable situation to recoup their investments or re-invest to better their performance because the legal arrangements on the ground and the National grid are hampering their operation and performance..

Lagos state is directly benefitting from their power plants and able to provide 24/7 power to their institutions because they don't feed their generated power into the National grid for transmission, they transmit via their own 300 miles underground transmission cable network while other states are getting little or nothing in return for the hundreds of MW plants and investments. Unlike Lagos, they basically have to feed everything they generate into the grid for nothing in return, their people are still in darkness.

Spending billions of dollars on power plants with reliance on the same worthless grid to transmit makes zero sense, it's flushing down money inside the drain.

States and communities should be allowed to go ahead and take care of their power needs while the FG concentrates on the Grid as a back up system....
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 5:31pm On May 13, 2015
@aresa
I am not promoting centralization. Simply because I asked that we don't decommission our grid doesn't mean I am asking for centralization. As I said, I can't think of a country that doesn't have some form of grid system. Maybe you can help me with some examples. What if something happens at gaslink and the gas supply to many of the turbines in Lagos goes down? I just used Osun as example but it looked like you are focusig on distance. But there are countless scenarios that can give rise to power shortage in any region. What is the point of having power in Mowe (Ogun state) and the people in Berger (Lagos state less than 50km from Mowe) for some reasons are staying in darkness or vise versa. In the same manner, what is the point of having excess power in Afam while the GENCo/DISCo in Abia struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Akwa Ibom while the GENCo/DISCo in Cross rivers struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Kaduna while the GENCo/DISCo in Zamfara struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? The grid provides for flexibility as backup not as main form of distribution and guarantees extra revenue for those that can sell to others "in need". It covers these tiny "blind spot" here and there - i believe I have said this before.

The question then is, what happens if every jurisdiction is able to produce more power than is required in their various regions/localities? To answer that, I believe if Ghana had the audacity to nurse the intention to sell electricity to us, there shouldn't be anything preventing us from also selling electricity to neighboring countries. You can't do that without a grid. Ghana than wanted to sell electricity to us cannot be nursing that thought if all the have is island generating plants in Accra, Kumasi and co without an over-riding grid.
http://www.punchng.com/news/ghana-plans-to-export-electricity-to-nigeria/
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by zimoni(f): 7:11pm On May 13, 2015
Very interesting thread. It's always been my idea at solving the power problem once and for all.

We shall get there. It is well.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by aresa: 7:45pm On May 13, 2015
gists:
@aresa
I am not promoting centralization. Simply because I asked that we don't decommission our grid doesn't mean I am asking for centralization. As I said, I can't think of a country that doesn't have some form of grid system. Maybe you can help me with some examples. What if something happens at gaslink and the gas supply to many of the turbines in Lagos goes down? I just used Osun as example but it looked like you are focusig on distance. But there are countless scenarios that can give rise to power shortage in any region. What is the point of having power in Mowe (Ogun state) and the people in Berger (Lagos state less than 50km from Mowe) for some reasons are staying in darkness or vise versa. In the same manner, what is the point of having excess power in Afam while the GENCo/DISCo in Abia struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Akwa Ibom while the GENCo/DISCo in Cross rivers struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Kaduna while the GENCo/DISCo in Zamfara struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? The grid provides for flexibility as backup not as main form of distribution and guarantees extra revenue for those that can sell to others "in need". It covers these tiny "blind spot" here and there - i believe I have said this before.

The question then is, what happens if every jurisdiction is able to produce more power than is required in their various regions/localities? To answer that, I believe if Ghana had the audacity to nurse the intention to sell electricity to us, there shouldn't be anything preventing us from also selling electricity to neighboring countries. You can't do that without a grid. Ghana than wanted to sell electricity to us cannot be nursing that thought if all the have is island generating plants in Accra, Kumasi and co without an over-riding grid.
http://www.punchng.com/news/ghana-plans-to-export-electricity-to-nigeria/


In a sense do agree with you and I also share your sentiments, but my take has to with addressing our immediate needs by deploying quick and easy fixes here and there since addressing our archaic and almost obsolete transmission grid issues could take almost a decade at best to complete and tens of billions that we don't have on the table to build right now.

We know it's possible and could be delivered in little or no time as demonstrated in Lagos. Lagos today can ignore or sidestep the National grid for good if possible simply because they have their own underground cable system to rely on. They have aggressive Solar energy program that's presently powering many schools and health centers, they have a transformer manufacturing plant and many power plants with many or on the drawing board.

Local and federal agencies should allow utility companies to set up microgrids to serve their local population while the FG finds solution and address the national grid problem substantially..

Without significant improvements per power generation and transmission, the new administration's mass employment proclamations remains nothing but a sad dream.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by gists: 10:03pm On May 13, 2015
I don't know why we are arguing because it is now obvious we are saying the same thing.

aresa:

In a sense do agree with you and I also share your sentiments, but my take has to with addressing our immediate needs by deploying quick and easy fixes here and there since addressing our archaic and almost obsolete transmission grid issues could take almost a decade at best to complete and tens of billions that we don't have on the table to build right now.

We know it's possible and could be delivered in little or no time as demonstrated in Lagos. Lagos today can ignore or sidestep the National grid for good if possible simply because they have their own underground cable system to rely on. They have aggressive Solar energy program that's presently powering many schools and health centers, they have a transformer manufacturing plant and many power plants with many or on the drawing board.

Local and federal agencies should allow utility companies to set up microgrids to serve their local population while the FG finds solution and address the national grid problem substantially..

Without significant improvements per power generation and transmission, the new administration's mass employment proclamations remains nothing but a sad dream.

This is my position on the above:
gists:
In summary: Retain the national grid as it is without pumping more money for now and concentrate on local generation for communities using the DISCos. The definition of community need to be clear - is it state, LGAs, LCDA, estates, streets etc). However, DISCos should be encouraged to generate more power so as to sell to other DISCos serving other communities that may need it if/when required through an upper distribution or transmission layer.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 1:00pm On May 14, 2015
vanunu:
The grid system is simply the best, that is why it is used through out the whole world, it is cheaper, and when one power plant is undergoing maintenance, consumers will not even notice it . I remember what bayelsa state use to surfer in those days when they were not connected to the national grid.

Upon all the noise that the lagos have been making for 16yrs, they have only been able
To generate only 64mw despite the fact that billions of naira have been spent.

This system they are proposing for buhari is very expensive and consumers will not be able to pay. The cost of laying gas pipline alone will consume billions of naira

Can you show us the existing gas pipeline network in Lagos today?
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 1:09pm On May 14, 2015
Reference:


But what will power these numerous plants: fuel or gas. Fuel means a cobweb of pipelines, the eldorado of vandals, if it is gas then the risk around residential areas is better imagined. Trucking means gridlock and inefficiency especially when a plant may be drinking a truck an hour. There is a reason modern economies scale up. Efficiency rises with scale. How ever I agree that we can't start seeking efficiency.

You seem to lack the basic concept of what is dicussed
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 2:41pm On May 14, 2015
aresa:



What steady power? There's no such thing in Nigeria.

Bonny, Abonnema, some parts of omoku so many places in bayelsa, just take a trip from your cave
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:40pm On May 14, 2015
EMANY01:


Right.....you apc folks are so smart you will basically write the book in the field of micro power generation and distribution in no less a place that in developing africa.
The more I think about it I have visions of a nobel price of some such award going to the buhari government for inovation in power infrastructure development in developing countries.

My now obviously inadequate education in engineering lead me to believe that in a hundred and thirty years of reserch , development,management experience and inovation in the field of electrical power generation,transmission and distribution, there is a valid reason that the disteibuted power infrastructure models have be only cousarily examined and discarded repeatedly.

The laws of physics not to mention economics will slap the fantasy illusions from your eyes soon enough all the propagandar defence in the world will not even come close to being enough.

Mr Physicist / Economist, have you bothered to estimate the real cost of no power supply on human development index?
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:45pm On May 14, 2015
anonimi:



Please do you know the man in the picture with our freshly minted messiah? grin
I understand he spent $16 billion for eight years (1999-2007) to produce more BLACKOUT embarassed








Why is it so easy to ALLOW ourselves be taken for stewpid FOOOLS by these Looters in Power (LiPs)
Why?

And the Otuoke 'Jesus' you supported for another 4-year term spent $35 Billion to further cement the darkness produced by his mentor and benefactor. It's a pity you snide at Nigerians for kicking out a party which spent $50 Billion in 16 years to keep us in darkness
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 6:50pm On May 14, 2015
Bayswater:


Wow, double speak but you expected GEJ to fix it in 4 years. Oniyeye.

What did GEJ add in 5+ years? he is still celebrating achievement in 2015 of 4000 MW, same 4000 MW also celebrated by the Obasanjo government in 2007
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 7:45pm On May 14, 2015
gists:

But there is no where in the world where distribution is phased out.
Where do we draw the line? State level, LGAs, LCDA, Street? There is need to generate power in a central location within a region and distribute within that region. Except you are advocating everybody should generate their own electricity (which is pretty much what we have now with the numerous noisy i-pass-my-neighbours) there is no way you can eliminate distribution.
You are right, there is nothing stopping enugu from generating from coal and kano from solar. But every street in enugu cannot have a coal power plant! In the same manner, ever street in kano cannot have a solar farm. That is why there should be a central location in enugu/kano where the coal plant/solar farm will be installed and DISTRIBUTED across the state.

But I disagree with the idea of transporting gas in bottles to power plant. The recurrent logistics/efficiency/risk is just not worth it. Run a pipe to a central place like it is being done by some now. Generate the electricity and again DISTRIBUTE across the state or jurisdiction (if we are using discos that cut across a number of states)

Nothing stops a power plant supplied with 'bottles'from switching to pipeline gas whenever the pipeline eventually arrives. It makes no sense to keep people in Abaji, Tegina, Otuoke, Potiskum, Ode-Omu, Sekona, Oturukpo, Zuru, Aramoko, Kaura-Namoda etc. in darkness for some more years under the guise of waiting for pipeline.

Towns closer to the gas sources will be the first to be taken off 'bottles'supply immediately the pipelines get extended and the compression station can be easily shifted to the northern-most reaches of the pipeline, thereby shortening the trucking distance of compressed gas supply.
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by Imokay: 8:01pm On May 14, 2015
gists:

Ok maybe we are saying the same thing from different angles.
BUT I still don't think we should abandon the existing transmission out-rightly. We have seen generators and transformers go up in flames. That can also happen to a local power station. The idea of national transmission is to create room for flexibility and maneuvering. Imagine something happens to Eko disco that is exclusively generating and serving Lagos. If anything happens to the transformer or generator without the flexibility of "sharing" power with the rest of the country, the entire state will be under darkness while their will be power in Mowe and Ibafo undecided

I think the national grid should be left alone for now and concentrate on local/regional generation with the possibility of taking/pushing power from/to the national grid when it becomes necessary. Let us not get too carried away and throw away the baby with the bathwater.

The national grid should never be abandoned or left as it is. There must be more investments in upgrading and extending it's reach. All the scattered power plants will eventually join the network so that excess power can be sold at peak and off-peak period. Why should the owner of a sleepy agricultural town with say a 10MW plant that needs not more than 2MW at night not be able to sell to larger 24-hour cities through and earn cool cash rather keep his plant earning from only 20% installed capacity at night?

1 Like

Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 9:17am On May 15, 2015
TonySpike:


Actually, I think the Nigerian government has better prospects at generating electric power from our untapped deposits of Bitumen belt in large quantities around Lagos, Ogun, Ondo and Edo states. Bitumen, I think, has better thermodynamic properties than coal because of its average particle size. As far as i am concerned, the Nigerian government has a large deposits/quantities of natural gas, uranium, bitumen and coal to jumpstart electricity production. We haven't even started mentioning geothermal options, solar power and hydroelectric options. Nigeria like the Republic of Congo, has more than enough natural resources to jumpstart Africa on a large scale!

Bitumen grin
Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 12:06pm On May 15, 2015
gists:
@aresa
I am not promoting centralization. Simply because I asked that we don't decommission our grid doesn't mean I am asking for centralization. As I said, I can't think of a country that doesn't have some form of grid system. Maybe you can help me with some examples. What if something happens at gaslink and the gas supply to many of the turbines in Lagos goes down? I just used Osun as example but it looked like you are focusig on distance. But there are countless scenarios that can give rise to power shortage in any region. What is the point of having power in Mowe (Ogun state) and the people in Berger (Lagos state less than 50km from Mowe) for some reasons are staying in darkness or vise versa. In the same manner, what is the point of having excess power in Afam while the GENCo/DISCo in Abia struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Akwa Ibom while the GENCo/DISCo in Cross rivers struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? What is the point in have excess power in Kaduna while the GENCo/DISCo in Zamfara struggles to meet the electricity demand of her citizens? The grid provides for flexibility as backup not as main form of distribution and guarantees extra revenue for those that can sell to others "in need". It covers these tiny "blind spot" here and there - i believe I have said this before.

[b]The question then is, what happens if every jurisdiction is able to produce more power than is required in their various regions/localities? To answer that, I believe if Ghana had the audacity to nurse the intention to sell electricity to us, there shouldn't be anything preventing us from also selling electricity to neighboring countries. You can't do that without a grid. Ghana than wanted to sell electricity to us cannot be nursing that thought if all the have is island generating plants in Accra, Kumasi and co without an over-riding grid.
[/b]http://www.punchng.com/news/ghana-plans-to-export-electricity-to-nigeria/



The funny thing about you guys argument is that all of you are saying the same thing with different terminologies.
You cannot transmit power without a grid, so whether decentralized or not, there must be a grid, now the Osibanjo argument is; whether we need a National grid? the answer is no!!, how do we get electricity to those who cannot generate, first question to ask them is can you pay for it?
if the answer is yes, then they may link them to the closest grid, even if it spans across three states, it is still decentralized, and it cannot be confused for a national grid.

What happens during emergency? you dont need to keep portharcourt in darkness because you want to send their power to lagos cos a natural disaster affected their IPP, if there is an excess, then we can assume that the volume of it will determine whether it is cost effective to build a national grid for a contingency plan like that else, by all means, Lagos should use generators pending when the issue is fixed, the loss in revenue alone for the Power companies will keep them on their toes.

What gas infrastructure do we need? Everyday I curse Margaret Thatcher for proposing a DSO for gas in our PIB, most of you know how to complain but you guys lack the ability to forecast how govt policies will affect us, now, we are asking a question we should have asked Margaret thatcher since she started circulating that PIB sh!t!.

Margaret thatcher is proposing that we can only get gas by begging the IOC's to give us a specified amount for local consumption, there is no country in the world with proven gas reserves that can allow that crap!

The disadvantage is that Nigeria or individuals will never invest in gas infrastructure because there is free gas somewhere;
2) Gas infrastructures will not be maintained because it is free, nobody will take responsibility
3) Diversion will be encouraged, the Domestic gas issue is still fresh in our minds.

The IOC's have said we cannot give you free gas, they spent good money extracting it, tell NGC to invest in gas infrastructures to give you gas, just like NPDC can not give us local production capacity in oil because she has diverted most of their viable oil blocks, and we still expect refineries to work? if she is not begging for refineries, she is begging for gas, next she will start threatening the biggest FDI her economy depends on. When I ask where is the oil? nobody has ever answered that question.
Funny enough she thinks she is stepping on toes when in the real sense she is making a m@ss of the industry.

Back to the subject, we have a West african gas pipeline (WAPCO), a joint venture of 3 west african countries, that is how our gas gets to far away Accra to fire their power plant. I don't think there is a ny major city in Nigeria that has no Gas trunk line close to it, Just like OBJ planned it, all IPP must not be gas, people who are not close to gas trunk lines should use whatever means that is viable, it is up to the investing company to decide that not us.

You dont need to construct pipelines from Bayelsa to Ondo if Ondo has nothing to generate electricity with, all you need to do is a barred tee on a Lagos trunk line and you will have a shorter gas line distance to Ondo, its that simple, so dont worry about gas logistics, nobody is gonna ferry Gas in tankers grin grin grin

finally, the issue of sabotage is uncommon with gas lines, that was another area the PIB should have made sense but margaret thatcher is too dumb to solve any problem, this is what happens, most companies flow condensate in their trunk lines, due to leak or other OPS necessity, the said gas line will temporarily function as a multiphase means of transportation in a process called spiking, saving the company money from down time, over the years, it has become a problem in the industry and it is as dangerous as flaring.

The companies have moles and community employees who have their guys standing by in the bush, on that hour of multiphase flow, the boys are alerted and the pipeline is fvcked, there is no security contingency for multiphase operation in Nigeria, what stops the PIB from making it mandatory for ROW security during multiphase operations if we must?

If we stop Multiphase OPS in Nigeria, Nobody will go anywhere close to a gas pipeline.

Secondly, competing GENCOS sabotage their various competitors because most of their OPS limit are not even defined, that is where decentralization will come handy, if you are in charge of Akwaibom, you have no business going to sabotage Edo Genco, because you are not allowed to distribute there, other investors can come in to encourage competition but it must be, two or more GENCO in a DISCO, NO inter DISCO OPS, else we will have another minister crying about sabotage.

Whether IPP will work? that was the only Achilles heel to Obj's NIPP, realistically speaking, Nigeria can do about 15,000MW, that should serve half of the country 24/7 minimum.
Unfortunately, dumb senator chris Ngige, the Onwa of blind people who happened to be the deputy chairman senate committee on power, forgot that his only mission in Abuja as a senator was to throw his weight behind decentralization of power transmission, after sleeping for four years, he stup!dly came back to collect another ticket, thinking that his people (Nigerians by extension) are used to staying in darkness.
Thank god for sending that thunder wey fire am!!

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Re: BUHARI GOVT: Eyeing Lagos Template To Solve Power Crisis. by jpphilips(m): 12:10pm On May 15, 2015
Imokay:


The national grid should never be abandoned or left as it is. There must be more investments in upgrading and extending it's reach. All the scattered power plants will eventually join the network so that excess power can be sold at peak and off-peak period. Why should the owner of a sleepy agricultural town with say a 10MW plant that needs not more than 2MW at night not be able to sell to larger 24-hour cities through and earn cool cash rather keep his plant earning from only 20% installed capacity at night?

Do you know how much it cost to do 5km standard grid that can carry 20,000MW of electricity, can you guess?
we dont need a national grid at this stage, development is one at a time, it is cheaper for ikeja GENCO to construct a 5,000MW grid over 30km to cover Ikeja alone than doing 20,000MW round the country, bros this matter na common sense naa!!
He already knows that Ikeja will never exceed 5,000MW in the next decade!!

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