Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,194,650 members, 7,955,362 topics. Date: Sunday, 22 September 2024 at 12:10 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business (42041 Views)
Controversy As Alaafin Of Oyo Prays With Queens In Front Row At Prayer Ground / Alaafin Of Oyo Steps Out Again With His 4 Wives (photos). / Alaafin Of Oyo & His Wives Cause A Stir At Abuja Airport (photos) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by ise82(m): 9:00pm On May 08, 2011 |
ELA OJU KAN |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 9:02pm On May 08, 2011 |
SegzyJoe: Oyo derived importance through military strength and military strength alone. The minute Oyo was sacked and consequent successful rebellion by the Egba and Ijebu, Oyo ceased to have that prominence amongst the Yoruba. By the time the British arrived in Yorubaland, there were other Yoruba states that were more powerful than the Oyo such as the Ibadan, Ekiti, Ijesha, Egba and Ijebu. Ife will always have more prominence amongst the Yoruba than any other place because all Yoruba kingdoms derived from Ile -Ife. Secondly, the Aare On Kakanfo was a title of the Oyo empire, it was never a title of the Yoruba. Oranmiyan, who was Oduduwa's son, founded Oyo. Can Oyo now be said to be the spiritual home of the Yoruba. Since, it is not possible for the various Yoruba kingdoms to do battle to determine the most powerful, we have to go by history and antecedents. OAM4J: I agree with this. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Nobody: 9:02pm On May 08, 2011 |
Katsumoto: That was Alaafin Aole, I read somewhere that Afonja was his cousin and tradition forbade the Alaafin and Aare to be blood relatives. Alaafin Aole supposedly chose to ignore the counsel of the Oyomesi and made Afonja the Aare against tradition, some would consider Afonja's betrayal a punishment of some sort for going against tradition. Aole not only cursed Afonja but the entire Yoruba race @ bolded, I thot Alimi did that and they went to to defeat Solagberu (a Yoruba who converted to Islam who also took on the Fulani marauders until Basorun Ogunmola stopped them) too |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 9:03pm On May 08, 2011 |
naijaking1: |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by OAM4J: 9:07pm On May 08, 2011 |
SegzyJoe: I agree with most of the thing you wrote, but to conclude that Ooni is insignificant in the scheme of things in Yoruba land and that there was no crown in ife is to also claim Oduduwa and Ife is insignificant. I dont know why some of you make it look like Oyo is the source of Yoruba Kingdom. Fact remains that Oyo was the headquarters of Oyo empire under Alafin and Ife is the motherland of all Yorubas and it's under the custody of Ooni. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 9:08pm On May 08, 2011 |
naijababe: You are correct with everything except the last part. Afonja fought with Alimi to defeat Solagberu. After Alimi died, Abdusalam invited the jihadist's flag from Sokoto and served under the emirate of Gwandu. That was how Afonja was betrayed and lost control of Ilorin. This account is supported by both Samuel Johnson and Professor Akinjogbin. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 9:13pm On May 08, 2011 |
OAM4J: Cant you see the contradiction in that ediot's post Ooni has no crown? WTF? He definitely has never attended the Olojo festival I hate when people post trash online. Ooni has no crown. . . [size=18pt]ROFLMAO[/size] |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 9:55pm On May 08, 2011 |
The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba Author(s): R. C. C. Law Source: The Journal of African History, Vol. 14, No. 2 (1973), pp. 207-222 Published by: Cambridge University Press Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/180445 . Accessed: 08/05/2011 16:39 THE HERITAGE OF ODUDUWA: TRADITIONAL HISTORY AND POLITICAL PROPAGANDA AMONG THE YORUBA BY R. C. C. LAW THE use of traditional history for purposes of political propaganda, and its consequent falsification, are well attested phenomena in African societies. Indeed, Vansina, in his classic study of oral tradition, suggests that the historian should a priori suspect falsification in 'official' traditions, i.e. those whose primary function is political.' In particular, traditions of origin seem commonly to have such political functions, seeking to legitimate the present political order by placing its origins in remotest antiquity. In many instances, it appears that traditions of origin can be plausibly inter- preted, to use the often-quoted words of Fortes, as 'nothing more than formulations of the contemporary scheme of political and ceremonial relationships'.2 However, difficulties arise for this approach in contexts where the political order was not static. It has been commonly accepted that, when the political organization of a society was changed, its traditions had to be adjusted to fit the new conditions. It has, perhaps, been less often appreciated that traditional history might also be modified in order to facilitate changes in the political system-certainly, non-African parallels suggest that appeals to a falsified 'ancestral constitution' are frequently made by those seeking to bring about revolutionary change.3 But while the fact of politically motivated alteration of traditional history has been acknowledged, little attention has been given to the process by which such alterations were effected. Goody and Watt, for example, refer to 'the unobtrusive adaptation of past tradition to present needs', without indicat- ing how this adaptation was achieved, or how it could have been 'un- obtrusive'.4 Too often, it appears, historians and anthropologists of Africa have been content to credit the rulers of African societies with a power like that of the Ministry of Truth in Orwell's I984, to make alterations in the existing view of history at will, to suit their changing purposes, and to win instant acceptance of each successive revised version. The assumption upon which the present article proceeds is that, on the contrary, the alter- ation of received historical traditions must always have been a matter of some difficulty. This article is an examination of the use of traditions of origin for pur- poses of political propaganda among the Yoruba, with particular reference to the most powerful of the Yoruba kingdoms, QyQ. Its title, 'The Heritage of Oduduwa', alludes to the common Yoruba tradition that all Yoruba, or at least the royal dynasties of all the principal Yoruba kingdoms, are de- scended from a single ancestor, Oduduwa. The phrase, 'the heritage of Oduduwa', it should be made clear, does not occur in Yoruba tradition, the concept being borrowed by the present writer from the history of Classical Greece. An ancient account of the military expansion of the kingdom of Argos in the Peloponnesos during the seventh century B.C. describes the Argives as having 'recovered the heritage of Temenos',5 Temenos being according to tradition the founder of the royal dynasty of Argos and one of three brothers who had divided among themselves control of the Pelopon- nesos. The parallels between this story and Yoruba traditions will become clear in the course of this article. Yoruba Origins The Yoruba occupy an extensive territory, embracing southwestern Nigeria and adjacent areas of Dahomey and Togo. They compromise several distinct sub-groups, the most important being the Oyo in the north, the Ife, 1jesa, Ekiti and Ondo in the east, the Ijebu and Egba in the south, and the Ketu in the west. Though the various Yoruba sub-groups share a common language and culture, they have never, at least in recent times, formed a political unit, being divided into numerous independent king- doms. Even the use of the name 'Yoruba' to refer to the whole group is a recent development, which does not pre-date the nineteenth century. Originally, this name referred only to one of the 'Yoruba' kingdoms, Qy9.6 In earlier times, it does not appear that the various 'Yoruba'-speak- ing peoples called themselves by any common name. They did, however, acknowledge a common origin, from the Yoruba town of Ile Ife. There are many contradictory versions of the Yoruba tradition of origin. This needs to be stressed, since it has been obscured by the author- ity customarily accorded to the version recorded by Samuel Johnson, the pioneer historian of the Yoruba, in his History of the Yorubas, published in I92I1. [size=18pt] Johnson's version, which he derived from QyQ tradition, is in fact highly tendentious[/size].8 Nowadays, indeed, it is probably true that relatively few variants are still current as oral tradition, since Johnson's published account has widely supplanted and driven out differing versions. But 5 Ephoros, quoted in Strabo, Geography, VIII: 3, 33. 8 Johnson's informants were the Arokin, the official historians of the QyQ court: see Johnson, History, 3. THE HERITAGE OF ODUDUWA 209 many variants were recorded and published, mainly by the obscurer local historians, during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. The existence of these numerous contradictory versions of the Yoruba tradition of origin is of considerable interest, since this dissensus suggests that the question of Yoruba origins has been in the past a subject of active controversy. Despite differences of detail, the traditions of all the principal Yoruba kingdoms, and also of the neighbouring non-Yoruba kingdom of Benin to the east, agree in claiming a common origin from Ile Ife. The royal dynasties of these kingdoms are supposedly descended from a single ancestor, the first king of Ile Ife, who is usually named as Oduduwa.9 Of the arrival of Oduduwa at Ile Ife, different accounts are given. In some traditions, Ile Ife is presented as the site of the creation of the habitable world, from which all mankind dispersed over the earth. The surface of the earth was covered with water, and Oduduwa descended by a chain from heaven to create the dry land.10 Other traditions represent Oduduwa as an immigrant from outside Yorubaland who settled at Ile Ife. The best known version of the 'migration' tradition, that given in Johnson's History of the Yorubas, brings Oduduwa from Mecca.11 Others locate the Yoruba homeland rather nearer, for example in Nupe, the immediate north- eastern neighbour of Yorubaland.12 Some traditions seem to represent a fusion of the 'creation' and 'migration' versions: according to these, the ancestors of the Yoruba migrated from another land, came to a vast expanse of water across which they set out either by wading or by canoe, and ultimately created dry land in the middle of it.13 It is possible that the 'creation' and 'migration' versions of the Yoruba tradition of origin originally referred to distinct indigenous and immigrant elements in the population.14 During Oduduwa's lifetime, or soon after his death, his sons and grand- sons are said to have dispersed from Ile Ife to found their own kingdoms. In several versions, the founders of the principal kingdoms are presented as the children of Oduduwa specifically by his principal wife, Qmonide or Iyamode.15 Various lists are given of the original kingdoms founded by the sons and grandsons of Oduduwa. Several versions name six original kingdoms,16 Samuel Johnson names seven,17 and others name sixteen.18 Inclusion among the original kingdoms is a matter of great prestige, and there is considerable disagreement about their identity. Almost all versions, however, agree in including Qyo, Ketu, and Benin among the original kingdoms. [size=18pt]In some of the derivative kingdoms, the dynastic link with Ile Ife was given institutional expression, in the rituals accompanying the installation of their kings. For example, when a new Alafin, or king, of OyQ was installed, the sword which was believed to have belonged to Oranyan, the son of Oduduwa who founded the Oyo dynasty, was sent to Ile Ife for reconsecration before being used in the ceremony.[/size]19 At Benin, parts of the bodies of the deceased kings were sent to Ile Ife for burial.20 The principal importance of the dynastic link with Ile Ife lay in the fact that descent from a son or grandson of Oduduwa was considered necessary to validate a king's claim to the right to wear an ade, or crown with a beaded fringe.2' In 1903 this principle was given official recognition by the British author- ities, who brought the Oni, or king, of Ife to Lagos to give judgement on the claim of the El.pe of Sagamu, a minor Ijebu ruler, to wear an ade: the Qni gave a list of twenty-one kings with the right to wear ade, not including the El4pe.22 It is difficult to assess what degree of truth, if any, there is in these tradi- tions of origin from Ile Ife. Certainly, there seems little reason to believe in the historicity of the individuals involved in the stories, since Oduduwa and his immediate descendants were worshipped by the Yoruba as orisa (gods). It is, no doubt, possible that they are deified mortals, but it seems alto- gether more probable that they are humanized deities.23 However, archaeological evidence from Ile Ife, principally the brass and terracotta sculptures found there, which appear to be associated with some form of sacred kingship, encourages the belief that Ile Ife was the centre of an early monarchy.24[size=18pt] It seems quite possible that Ile Ife was the first place in the Yoruba area where the institution of kingship emerged, and that princes of Ile Ife carried the institution to the other states.[/size] It is not neces- sary to believe that, as the traditions claim, the dissemination of kingship from Ile Ife took place 'at a stroke', within a single generation. Since a principal function of the traditions is to validate the royal status of the rulers of the derivative kingdoms, it is natural for them to base the equi- valence of status of the different kings upon a supposed genealogical equivalence as brothers and sons of Oduduwa. Nor is it necessary to believe in the reality of the dynastic connexion with Ile Ife in every case where it is claimed. Since origin from Ile Ife was necessary to secure recognition of kingly status, it is very likely that the claim of descent from the royal family of Ile Ife was sometimes fabricated by kings anxious to legitimate their rule.25 The Position of Ife The position of Ile Ife as the acknowledged cradle of all the royal dynasties of the surrounding kingdoms would seem to imply a special, paramount status for the Oni of Ife, the occupant of the ancestral throne. T[size=18pt]his was certainly the view of the Oni themselves. Aderemi, the present Oni of Ife, claims that when Oduduwa, shortly before his death, bestowed crowns on his sons, he first crowned his eldest son as Oni of Ife, and ordered his other sons, the founders of the other kingdoms, 'to show filial obedience to their eldest brother'. [/size] In consequence, according to Aderemi, 'The Oni is still regarded by his younger brothers as their father'.26 This conception of the Oni of Ife wielding an acknowledged paternal authority over the family of derivative dynasties has also been put forward by Ademakinwa, a local historian of Ife.27 It has become familiar in recent years through its adoption by Professor Akinjogbin, who has christened this conception of the state as a large family the 'ebi social theory'.28 It is possible that the Oni of Ife enjoyed such a position of acknowledged paramountcy in very early times. In recent times, however, the Oni's claim to 'paternal' status and authority has been widely repudiated by the rulers of the derivative kingdoms. For example, when Aderemi himself, on a visit to the Ekiti area in I936, told the local kings, 'I am on the throne as the father, and you are on thrones as sons', the Ekiti kings replied that, just as the Oni was on the throne of his father, so also they were on the thrones of their fathers.29 Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. One tradition asserts that the Oni is descended not from any of Oduduwa's children by his principal wife, Omonide, but from one of his sons by his other wives, who on Oduduwa's death was given a broom to keep his grave clean.30 A much more common story denies altogether the royal ancestry of the Oni, describing the first Oni as a slave. Versions of this story are reported, for example, from OyQ,31 Ilesa,32 and Ijebu.33 Usually, the first Oni is said to have been a slave of Oduduwa's household, often described as the son of a woman offered in sacrifice, who was left to look after the palace at Ile Ife when Oduduwa's sons dispersed to found their own kingdoms.34 Another version asserts that when the first king of Ile Ife died, an oracle advised the elders to choose as his successor the first man they should meet with, who turned out to be a slave who had just escaped being made a sacrifice.35 These stories are regularly supported by the claim that the title Oni is derived from Qmo Oluwo ni or Oluwo ni, 'He is the son of a sacrifice' or 'He is a sacrifice'.36 This denial of true royal ancestry to the Qni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa. It appears that such claims were put forward by the Alaketu of Ketu37 and by the Qwa of Ilesa, the principal Ijea king.38 [size=18pt]But the most systematic attempt to claim the heritage of Oduduwa, and the one with which this article is primarily concerned, was made by the Alafin of Oyo. [/size] To be Contd: |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Nobody: 9:58pm On May 08, 2011 |
@ Segzy Joe: To say the Ooni is insignificant is not only a travesty but a very crass attempt to revise history. Our elders say Ori ade kii sun'ta , there's a reason why Oodu'a and Oranmiyan were buried in Ife (Ife remains Ile). As far a I'm concerned, Alaafin and Ooni remain the political and spiritual heads of the Yorubas respectively. Myth or no myth, there's a reason why the staff of Oranmiyan sits at Ife and not Oyo. I don't necessarily think one is more important than the other. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by OAM4J: 10:03pm On May 08, 2011 |
zstranger, how did u bribe spam bot? I wouldn't even attempt to post half of that |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:07pm On May 08, 2011 |
OAM4J: Well spambot understands the supremacy of the Ooni over Alaafin i guess Goes to tell you that spambot has more sense than that ediot segzyjoe What an arse! Can you just believe the crap he posted? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Remii(m): 10:26pm On May 08, 2011 |
This is what that vindictive Akala created, the power tussle btw them have been solved with creation of Osun out of Oyo. Ooni has been been Chairman in Osun and Allafin Chairman in Oyo. Ti inu ile kan ban toro, awon omo ale ibe ni koi ti d'agba. Historically, those who remember the origin of the proverb "Omode gbon agba gbon laa fi da ile Ife". It was about how Ile Ife stopped paying homage to Oyo by sending a male cow to Oyo and demanded its calf to be sent to Ife , and so on, and so on. Which means Oyo at time governed Ife. History has it that when Oduduwa died, Oranmiyan was not around, so his grandpa's properties were shared with nothing left for him. Infact no crown was reserved for him, that is why you hear "lade lade lade Alaafin ko lade (Alafin does not have crown) When he showed up later, the family, in a face saving tactics, gave him red soil and told him that his own share would be the whole of Yorubaland, that was how he started collecting homage (isakole) from all part of Yoruba land. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by naijaking1: 10:27pm On May 08, 2011 |
Katsumoto: That's correct, based on my recollection from a class by an unbiased Ethiopan African history professor. Boko Haram guys were not the first to ask for jihadist flag to "cleanse" the system you know. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:28pm On May 08, 2011 |
Remii: How old are you? 11? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Busybody2(f): 10:30pm On May 08, 2011 |
^^^but but but he is on our side nao Yay, kaabo s'o ri eto Reemi, now all we need is Theseeker to join the mix keep on keeping it real all of una Sooko OAM4J: [s]Just passing by jejely, hmmm, i have always known that spambot was biased[/s] |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:36pm On May 08, 2011 |
Busy_body: So you think Ooni used to pay homage to the Alaafin? Abi Akoraye ni o ni? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Remii(m): 10:36pm On May 08, 2011 |
zstranger: let me answer you this way, I entered Unife and graduated from OAU, you can guess from that hint, lol |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Remii(m): 10:39pm On May 08, 2011 |
zstranger: May be you can tell me the story behind the proverb Omode gbo agba gbon la fi da ile Ife, (Hint, check Alawiye Apa Kefa by J F Odunjo} |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by OAM4J: 10:52pm On May 08, 2011 |
Remii: Remii: You contradicted yourself, you can not claim they use wisdom to avoid paying isakole (tax) and at the same time claim they pay isakole. After Oyo became powerful and attempted to collect isakole from Ile-ife, they were wise and they knew it would be fruitless going into battle with Oyo hence they applied wisdom to avoid paying isakole without going into battle. So Ife was never under Oyo empire or paid isakole to Oyo or to any kingdom for that matter. Busy_body: Is that your way of saying hi to your baby father? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Kilode1: 11:41pm On May 08, 2011 |
Interesting stuff here. Remii:LOL naijababe: I agree. As far a I'm concerned, Alaafin and Ooni remain the political and spiritual heads of the Yorubas respectively. Myth or no myth, there's a reason why the staff of Oranmiyan sits at Ife and not Oyo. I don't necessarily think one is more important than the other. I will like to end it at that, BUT but Politics is too fleeting, political power shifts with time and circumstances, If I read Katsumoto correctly, I think the point he was trying to make is that the significance of the Alaafin is derived from his military and political exploits. It could have been the Soun, The Timi, Awujale, Alake, Ewi, Osemawe or even the Deji. But for the Ooni, his Supremacy and significance is derived from a more spiritual, more permanent role as the head of the Source. This reminds me of what the Dalai Lama recently did; he decided to give up his political role/power and retained the spiritual one.[analyst's said he did that to checkmate the Chinese in case they try to influence the naming of the next Child Dalai Lama after his death]. . . .At least, any child his Government-in-exile Oracle choses as the new Dalai Lama will have the more spiritual, more legitimate claim to authority even if he can't fight politically until he grows up. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-10/world/india.dalai.lama_1_dharamsala-in-northern-india-tibetan-exile-movement-anti-chinese-slogans?_s=PM:WORLD Dunno, Maybe we need to emphasise the differences between the Spitirual Vs Political more, so this people will stop embarassing us with their fight everytime. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 12:32am On May 09, 2011 |
Kilode?!: That is precisely my message. Of what relevance is the past military exploit of Oyo? Did it benefit Yoruba people other than some bragging rights? If we are to go with military exploits, then Yoruba should go with Ibadan who managed to defeat the Jihadist at Osogbo rather than Oyo which fell and was sacked. That being said, Yoruba will always have a spiritual connection with Ife and that tops any military/political achievement. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by naijaking1: 3:28am On May 09, 2011 |
Many people wonder why we have such a hopless situation in Nigeria today. The answer, just look at our history Many nations were founded by people with noble ideals, but we people of sub-saharan African can attest more to treachrey, cooruption, and selfishness than virtous principles of honesty, industry, and equity |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Nobody: 3:35am On May 09, 2011 |
Anytime I read of Ekiti in one of those historical stories, I just feel so bubbly inside Even tho the sate is less than 30 years old. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by isalegan2: 4:40am On May 09, 2011 |
OAM4J: You are so right! The problem is, the detrators of the Yoruba monarchy (hereditary or otherwise) are confusing the titleholder with the throne/tradition that is ingrained in our culture and its people. Because a teacher behaves poorly does not mean you forbid your children from getting an education. Because you object to the person of the current Ooni or Alaafin does not mean the solution is to rebuke our culture and history. I can't scream loud enough. lol. ekt_bear: And of course these are traits that are unique to the African man? When others go mano a mano, they're politically astute. Do you want to do away with the Primary/nominating system, for example,as it exists in a state like Illinois. I use that example seeing as the USA can do no wrong, and we'd be in paradise on earth if we just copied them from dusk till dawn. Don't we have bigger fish to fry in Yorubaland? Wasting energy and resources on things that don't matter is annoying. World of 6+ billion people, and we are battling over Alaafin versus Ooni You do not cede power to anyone. You fight till you're bone-weary and then you fight some more. Like the way Al Gore went after the results after Bush said he was President. (I'm still on the USA example, so you should be pleased. I'll bring in the Europeans in a minute. ) Yorubaland was a pretty fvked up place at that time. All this human sacrifice, ritualism, slavery stuff. I can see why it'd be hard to consolidate rule with such harsh practices. Dude, I can't talk to you. That's all your culture is to you? When you read about Yoruba history, that's what stands out? But yeah, if there had been some sort of enlightened Oyo Empire leadership, it'd have been best if they'd conquered all of Yorubaland. We'd be in a much stronger position today. You're looking at it in hindsight. It's like internalised racism, if you ask me. The Europeans were able to "conquer" us, that means they're better than us, right? It's a common sentiment amongst people. You're not alone. So, in any battle, whoever wins is the moral victor, in your eyes? If a man with a gun defeats a man with a boxing glove, the armed man is worthy of deification? You know, it's not as if the Europeans consolidated under one king either. France, England, Belgium, Russia, and many more retained their monarchy as well. I'm just against royalty, monarchy, things like that. Even a "good" king. . . how good is he really going to be, in this day and age? what is the difference between a monarch and a military dictator? Pretty much the same thing A military dictator does not have a history connected to the land and the people. He's simply in control due to suppression of the people. You do know that the Yoruba kingdoms had their own way of dealing with an out-of-control king as well. For example, a king that is adjudged to have lost the support of the people/aristocracy and has to commit suicide is often strangled by the Olori and his other wives. Just had to put it in there - the wives had to be formidable too. lol I believe in decentralized power, checks and balances, the ability of those governed to offer feedback on how their leaders are doing, etc. ekt_bear: Are you as offended by that as you are by the Yoruba Obas? The Clintons. The most corrupt dishonest soulless couple that have ever occupied the oval office. You do know that William Jefferson Clinton is the first sitting president to ever be disbarred from the practice of law, because he committed perjury? When Bill was a law professor who was always losing his students papers and unable to grade them fairly, Hilary was his enabler, going around to his students and proposing a compromise of a lower grade so Bill could continue to be the bum he was. Do you remember Whitewater? Do you remember Hilary's pronouncements about "hard-working white people," in contrast with, I guess, the lazy shiftless Black folk who were the support of her opponent, Barack Obama? The Kennedys are known far and wide for being a thoroughly unscrupulous breed of politicians, starting with Joe's deal with the Mob to get his son, JFK, into office, Teddy's Chappaquiddick/Kopeckne incident, William K. Smith rape trial, murder, drunkeness, and so on. The Bushes? You cannot be serious. Do you see that these people are not any better than the Yoruba politicians/monarchs you are so willing to dismiss. Will you proclaim with all your might that the aforementioned American families desist from aspiring to become a de facto monarchy, just as you scoff at your own more legitimate and culturally relevant one? I understand your pronouncements are borne out of an unfortunate subliminal belief that White is Right, but I am convinced that this mentality of yours will evolve with time and life experiences. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by ektbear: 5:20am On May 09, 2011 |
@isale_gan2: Who said Africans were uniquely evil, or something? Who said the US can do no wrong? That I don't believe in hereditary power doesn't imply those things. It isn't an issue of ceding power. But instead focusing on the big picture. Hurrah, the Alaafin is now superior! Or the Ooni has prevailed. Well, who gives a crap? How does that butter anyone's bread? Is there any chance you can stop assuming so much? Who told you that is all I take from Yoruba culture? You need to calm down and stop with this aggrieved agenda of yours. 1. Yes, definitely it is hindsight. 2. Who said the Euros were better because they conquered us Wtf? Were they better than the isolated Native Americans too who they conquered? Might doesn't make right. . . I'm just saying, if Event X happened, then we'd be better off now. There is no morality involved in what I'm saying. A military dictator who eventually hands off to his son will eventually also have a connection to the land and the people. No real difference between him and a king. In fact, many royal families today were founded by warlords. Yes. I condemn the Clintons, Bushes, and Kennedy's perpetuating their political power, just as I condemn the obas who do the same. Custodian of culture is fine, political influence is not. Heh. If there were an ethnicity other than my own that I esteem, it would be the Jews, not white people Jews I have a lot of respect and admiration for (at least in certain areas.) White people? Not so much. White people are fine, but I don't think their culture is superior. Every culture has good and bad parts to it. My goal is hopefully to add the best from all cultures to my own. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by isalegan2: 5:51am On May 09, 2011 |
I've said what I have to say. I am done. ekt_bear: If you look hard enough, maybe you'll hit paydirt and find an Ashkenazi or two in your lineage. . . by way of Onitsha. Gezai Gezunt, darling! |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by ektbear: 6:05am On May 09, 2011 |
Heh. Regarding Ashkenazi lineage, I don't have to be related to someone to learn from what he is doing. A short snippet on the history of algebra:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra Or maybe the English who eventually used algebra have secret Arab/Greek/Egyptian/Chinese/Indian ancestry, also by way of Onitsha Stubbornness and unwillingness to learn from the good that others are doing (which they even didn't invent themselves, but borrowed/stole from others) is a terrible disease. Smh. May God keep this disease away from Yorubaland. Anyway, we can leave it at that. . . you don't seem to be getting my point. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Kilode1: 12:02pm On May 09, 2011 |
Damn, Isale went hard!! Almost betraying her royal aristocratic background in the process. Ekt_bear, bro don't mind princess isalegan, she's passionate because of the Isakoles and royalties she get's to keep. You both made great points though, I think we can copy best practices from outside while maintaining our unique cultural advantage. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by isalegan2: 12:18pm On May 09, 2011 |
ekt_bear: lol. You were supposed to laugh at that. Kilode?!: I did not! Anyway, he's a college boy who's used to debate. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Kilode1: 1:00pm On May 09, 2011 |
^^ hmm ekt_bear is probably a College Professor trying his best to dumb it down for slow people like us o. plus he's Ekiti, that agidi comes naturally with the package. I enjoyed your conversation though, you both made great points. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by SegzyJoe(m): 4:21pm On May 09, 2011 |
@Remii I quite agree with you, every son of Yorubaland knows that all Yoruba kings pay tribute to Aalafin including Ife. And just as every other Yoruba kingdom got independence from Aalafin, the same way Ife got independence from Oyo. @OAM4J Am not trying to downplay the significance of Ife in Yoruba history, infact Ife is the most significant root of the Yoruba race, but the truth remains that untill the early 1950s, the Ooni dynasty gained ascendancy during AG government . Pls go and study history very well. Ti bothers me the way this Ooni has been trying to change history just for selfish reasons. I challenge any Ooni apologist to tell me the name of the Oduduwa son that succeded Oduduwa in Ife. History has it that the last born Oranmiyan went to war, on his return, Oduduwa had died and the other sons shared everything and gave Yorubaland to Oranmiyan for compensation not realizing it was a strategic mistake to give land to a warrior, so he lord it over them all and established an kingdom that became Oyo Empire. Is it not insultful for Ooni to insinuate that Aalafin is still ruling over a dead empire, infact that man is a disgrace to Yorubaland. Has Ife and Ooni ever ruled over anybody, attempt to rule Modakeke resulted into bloodbath. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by isalegan2: 5:32pm On May 09, 2011 |
Kilode?!: Kilode to the rescue! Again. I love you like ice cream, Peacemaker Soul. It's a good thing you settled it o jare. I was in the middle of a long spam-bot worthy response to Katsumoto, who has turned out to be a fake Japanese prince. Anyway, Kats, my earlier response to Bear goes double for you! Briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnggg iiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttt! |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply)
THROWBACK: How Gowon Declined U.S. President’s Invitation To Visit America. / I Will Collect My N4Billion From Sahara Reporters – Saraki / Can Infrastructure Drive An Economy? Fashola Counters Peter Obi (2019)
Viewing this topic: 1 guest(s)
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 172 |